Hello,

I am 22 years old and will being getting married in December. When I get married I wanted to give my wife extreme pleasure so I thought I would buy these tapes as a method of practicing for this when I get married because using this technique I am supposed to be able to last longer and not be tired. This all sounds great, my only problems are that

-I am a Christian and I am concerned if there are any spiritual conflictions with what I am doing here. Any Christians here that can help me justify this?

-We are both virgins waiting till we get married and I don't want to scare her when we first make love.

-If I learn how to do it now and she is not open to it. I don't want to be "addicted" to it and not enjoy love making with her later.

-(In order not to scare partner) Is vocalizing the key sound when making love the only way to achieve MMO's?

Thank You so much,
Fallbrook

Hi Fallbrook

>When I get married I wanted to give my wife extreme pleasure.

That's very noble indeed!

>so I thought I would buy these tapes as a method of practicing for this when I get married because using this technique I am supposed to be able to last longer and not be tired.

It's true, but also you should probably considering learning more about her (& your own) body & feelings. There are lots of good books available on regular technique although ksmo has made most of the text written about males quite redundant.

>I am a Christian and I am concerned if there are any spiritual conflictions with what I am doing here.

Key sound technique is absolutely compatible with any belief system - there is no conflict. Having said that there are a lot of christian leaders who speak out against such as meditation, yoga & all sorts of useful stuff which can enhance your life - I personally do not believe that they speak directly for any deity & that you should make up your own mind.

>We are both virgins waiting till we get married and I don't want to scare her when we first make love.

Absolutely & well raised - suggest being gentle & don't beat yourself up if you don't meet your expectations in the first 10 minutes - pleasuring is a skill & you have lots of time to learn it well.

>If I learn how to do it now and she is not open to it. I don't want to be "addicted" to it and not enjoy love making with her later.

It's not addictive don't worry but be gentle & subtle with her. Can you talk about the sexual side of your relationship now or is it an unspoken taboo? 6 months of emotional foreplay could pave the way for a lifetime of pleasure! Flowers & chocolate are your friends!

>(In order not to scare partner) Is vocalizing the key sound when making love the only way to achieve MMO's?

You are best advised to learn this on your own in your own quiet times - you can also visualise the sound when you are making love but it's best to be patient & considerate. If she thinks a rolling 2 part sigh is 'normal' then you should have fewer issues.

Please stay in touch with the forum & consider coming to chat (I also highly recommend spending a few hours reading through some of the archived chats to ground you in the principles).

Hope this helps you - sorry this post isn't from a christian but if you do a search for posts by Rick you should find that you're not the only one here - Rick has made the system work & also has no apparent difficulties in integrating ksmo with his spiritual life.



Bilko

On 7/22/03 9:55:00 PM, Anonymous wrote:

>-I am a Christian and I am
>concerned if there are any
>spiritual conflictions with
>what I am doing here. Any
>Christians here that can help
>me justify this?
>
I am a Christian and see nothing strange here. If you have ever
masturbated at all, well you know that isn't exactly ok. However
with KSMO, you are really "loving" yourself and there is no
ejaculation...seed to spill on the ground and so forth, but to each
his own I guess. I generally don't get too worried about what other
people or institutions tell me to do with regard to my life. They are
hardly the last word on anything!
>
>-We are both virgins waiting
>till we get married and I
>don't want to scare her when
>we first make love.
>
I would suggest forgetting EVERYTHING you ever thought or
heard or knew about sex and just focus on each other, finding
ways to move closer to each other, to laugh and have fun with
each others bodies and to find things that bring each of you much
pleasure. Trying to "impose" any kind of sexual idea or conclusion
the first time can be very difficult to process. As bilko said, you'll
have plenty of time to sexually explore with your wife for the rest of
your lives.
>
>-If I learn how to do it now
>and she is not open to it. I
>don't want to be "addicted" to
>it and not enjoy love making
>with her later.
>
I can't imagine that happening. There is no additive quality to
KSMO. As to not enjoying lovemaking, well just know there is a
wide wide range of pleasurable activities in the sexual area, there
is no need to picture things one way or another, just feel it all and
notice it all and you will get "something" from "everything" you
experience. And your wife-to-be "not open to it"? Once she feels
the effects of your key sound within HER body, she'll eithe love it or
have a lot to think about...I can't imagine just discarding it all
together.
>
>-(In order not to scare
>partner) Is vocalizing the key
>sound when making love the
>only way to achieve MMO's?
>
Initially, probably yes, but as you become more open to the energy
the key sound unlocks within you, and as your body becomes
familiar with all the sensations and so on, it is possible to
experience MOs without the sound. But you will see. You asking
excellent questions, but really just dive in and see what happens
for you...much of what concerns you might never materialize at all.
And at least for me, often what I think might happen doesn't turn
out the way I envisioned it anyway...so why bother worrying you
know?

Good luck.

Hi Anonymous,

I have to say, I really like what Bilko and Mike have said here. I just wanted to add one more thought.
I think the most important thing to do in your situation, is to have an open and honest conversation with your partner before you begin this practice. Let her know what you hope to learn and why, and ask her how she feels about your intentions. While you can certainly learn this on your own before introducing it to her within the bonds of marriage, she should have the opportunity to understand and learn more about something which you intend to share with her later.
After all, this is not just about learning a technique, or a position, it's a process of developing new levels of intimacy and arousal within you. In many ways, you will have changed and grown through learning this system. If she knows about these changes before you actually become intimate, then she will have time to adjust to the idea, or voice any concerns she may have.
Being a married man myself, I first practiced this system on my own, but my wife knew about my practice, and had plenty of time to hear about the growth and changes I enjoyed in this process. That only served to help her become more interested and open to the idea. If I had simply surprised her with my new abilities one day, I think it might have been a bit of a shock.
So my advice is to keep her informed throughout this journey. She may even wish to read some of the material at this website or listen to Jack's seminar in order to better understand what you are learning and why. That kind of openness should only help to bring you closer together, and if she does has some misgivings about it, you'll have time to talk it over.

Best of Luck to You,

Pan :-)

Hi Fallbrook and Phil,

> From: "Phil" <bilko@fastmail.fm>
>
> Hi Fallbrook
>
> >When I get married I wanted to give my wife extreme pleasure.
>
> That's very noble indeed!

That is a good goal, which I will explain later.

> >so I thought I would buy these tapes as a method of practicing for this
when I get married because using this technique I am supposed to be able to
last longer and not be tired.
>
> It's true, but also you should probably considering learning more about
her (& your own) body & feelings. There are lots of good books available on
regular technique although ksmo has made most of the text written about
males quite redundant.
>

I would second that.

> >I am a Christian and I am concerned if there are any spiritual
conflictions with what I am doing here.
>
> Key sound technique is absolutely compatible with any belief system -
there is no conflict. Having said that there are a lot of christian leaders
who speak out against such as meditation, yoga & all sorts of useful stuff
which can enhance your life - I personally do not believe that they speak
directly for any deity & that you should make up your own mind.
>

Well, there is one thing for sure, you can go to different Christian leaders
of all sorts and get various answers on this, ranging from it is sin and you
will go to hell for it to it can be heaven and everything in between.

So, I
think Phil is correct to say that you cannot necessarily take any one
particular person's thoughts and interpretations and say that they speak for
God. As one who use to be one of the Christian leaders, in that I pastored
for a few years, and am still a Christian, I have my own understanding and
thoughts on this.

Naturally not everyone here would agree with all that I
might say, and I'm also not saying that I'm speaking for God either, but
simply that is what I feel I understand about what God has said. Take it for
what it is worth.

<Going into Christian theology mode here, for any that don't care for it!>

Some will say that these things are part of the fallen condition, and I'm
not too sure that they are not far off in some respects. However, that does
not automatically make them bad, nor does it mean that they are not
representative in some manner of the non-fallen condition of man. I'll try
to explain.

When the fall happened, God now knew that we are dealing with this new
situation and that we would need certain things in order that He might be
able to provide a redemption from it. Thus, some things are indeed a result
of the fall, however, they are also given to us for our benefit so that we
can deal with the fallen condition! That is a point often overlooked by
many.

What are generally labeled the "curses" of God upon us for Adam and
Eve's sin, that is, working hard, women having labor pains, and the rest,
are not so much a punishment from God as if He were giving us a spanking,
but were for our benefit to deal with the fallen situation as well as simply
the natural consequences that proceeded from the decision that was made.

In the fallen state, the sensual world became more pronounced, physically
speaking, in that the union with God was lost to a large degree, though He
sustains us for our redemption from this fallen state. Many of the early
Christian writers speak of this as becoming more like the animals, for man
was created to be the link between the created order and the divine, and
once the divine was gone, then it was just the created order that remained
the focus.

Both have their "pleasures" or as the early writers describe
them, their "passions". These "passions" encompass a wide range of things,
and not just physical pleasure in this life, but we generally tend to
associate them with the body. But there are passions of the soul (anger,
jealousy, and the like) as well. And, there are divine passions, and these
divine passions are reflected in the earthly passions that we experience,
just as many other aspects of this world reflect the glory of God.

So, the question is really not whether these things are compatible with
one's spiritual life as much as *how* one uses them is in accord with one's
spiritual life. This is seen in the Christian context when Paul speaks of
marriage as an image of our union with Christ, and thus the whole concept of
marriage revolves around union and oneness in all aspects of our lives,
social, soul, mind and body.

Our whole being becomes one, and one famous
Christian writer (St. John Chrysostom) speaks very approvingly of this
aspect of the physical union between two people, and the child which is
produced as the most literal manifestation of the two becoming one. He also
states, that even without the child, the union of the two are accomplished
in the sexual act.

So we see that this use of the sexual act to accomplish a
"union" between the two and that creates in us an image of our union with
Christ makes this whole sexual thing a very sacramental aspect of the
Christian life.

You can relate this somewhat to the Lord's Supper. I don't know what
denomination or group you are in currently or their view of this, but even
in the most minimalistic understandings of the Lord's Supper, what would be
the reaction if you took the bread and juice given and stomped on it and
poured it on the ground?

That would be a wrong use of that, and like
anything, one can use the sexual and other passions in a way that creates
division and harm instead of mutual pleasure and union between two people.
Most of the sins you see listed in the Bible are understood to be uses made
of these that are not for union, that do not reflect our union with God and
move us away from God and create division with him instead.

So, what I'm saying is that this needs to be evaluated in that respect. Your
first statement above takes note that you are wanting to do this for her, to
give her pleasure. That is a good goal and is an indication that this is not
totally a selfish thing on your part.

However, and this is a point that may
be difficult to grasp, this does not mean that you should not experience
pleasure in this and enjoy this. In order for her to experience great
pleasure, you first have to be able to experience that great pleasure! And
in doing that, you are not necessarily being selfish.

Think of it in this way, if your desire is to give her great pleasure, and
every time that you have sex, and she doesn't seem to be having that great
pleasure, won't you feel like you didn't accomplish that goal? Well, the
same works in reverse.

Hopefully this is part of her goal in the sexual
unions that you will have with her, and thus for her to experience great
pleasure, she has to see that you too are experiencing great pleasure or she
will not think she is being very successful. So, ironically, one of the ways
that you can make the greatest gains to helping your future wife to
experience great pleasure is for yourself to experience that.

This is
because this is a mutual thing, and you both need to be receptive to this
pleasure in order to give each other great pleasure, and as you are able to
do that, it will feed her pleasure which will feed yours as well, and will
foster that oneness that it is designed to do.

<Christian theology mode off...sort of>

Therefore, (and here is the point), this is not just for you though it will
of course feel good to you, but nothing is done in isolation as much as we
might like to think it is. As you develop your own ability to have pleasure
and experience that in the KSMO, you will find that it will give you great
pleasure and her great pleasure.

So I definitely think you are on the right
track, and would also suggest that you get some good books from a Christian
perspective on this. Tim LaHaye has a good book on marriage and sexual stuff
that my wife and I read before getting married, and it helped a lot (and
there were a couple of items we wished that we had followed a little more
closely in there!)

The bottom line is that this can be integrated into your
spiritual life if you use it in the right way, as with most anything else.
Sounds to me like you are on the right path to that from what you have said
here.

One other aspect that should be mentioned, though you may have picked this
up from others, is that like KSMO, don't get too goal oriented with the
sexual life and don't develop too many expectations of what it will be like.
I did that and had some shocks that took me a few years to work through.

Rather, the key is to simply enjoy the moment. You are not going to have
orgasm every time nor will she, though you can both have them regularly in
most cases. She is not always going to be in the mood when you are, and she
may have some "furballs" about sex that you are not aware of at this point.

That was something my wife had to work through as well, which was one of the
"shocks" I mentioned, and couldn't figure out why she didn't want to do it
as much as I did, etc. As with KSMO, go into any sexual experience with her
simply to enjoy whatever comes with her.

If either of you have the goal that
any "good" sexual experience has to end in orgasms for either or both
partners, then it can create blocks and performance anxiety, especially
later in life when it becomes harder for you to get there, assuming it does
for you as everyone is different.

But the biggest percentage of men
experience some drop in their 40's or so. However, if you simply focus on
the joy and other's joy and enjoying whatever your bodies are able to give
you at that moment, then you will find that the "goal" of orgasm, whether
ejaculatory or not, will happen more readily and frequently.

Remember the
real goal here is the **union** between you both and that means experiencing
the oneness of each moment of pleasure which is fusing you together, not
just the explosive orgasm at the end.

As you use the KSMO and are able to experience this great pleasure yourself,
you will find that it will greatly enhance your union with your wife, which
is indeed a good purpose. For those who don't really have a partner, and are
doing this solo, this becomes a much more spiritual issue in a more direct
manner than just the reflection of union with God in marriage, but allowing
God to transform this into a focus on Him, to make you hunger for the divine
passions just as much or more so than you might hunger for the physical
passion, and that the physical passions can then be transformed into the
divine passions that they inherently reflect and point to.

But this gets
much more out there than can be stated here I think, so I will leave it at
that.

> >We are both virgins waiting till we get married and I don't want to scare
her when we first make love.
>
> Absolutely & well raised - suggest being gentle & don't beat yourself up
if you don't meet your expectations in the first 10 minutes - pleasuring is
a skill & you have lots of time to learn it well.
>

So very, very true! May I suggest aside from the book I recommended above,
that you also do some things that don't involve sex in any way, and Jack
talks about this on his CD and the web site as well. If she is open to it
and doesn't have any of those "furballs" it might be good to discuss this
with her and to do the passing of the key sound back and forth to each other
while facing one another.

That will get you both use to it, and if you both
practice this, I think your first time together will be even more enjoyable
as you will both be more receptive to the pleasure.

But before that, it would be good if you have not already done so to get
some pre-marital counseling, as not only are there issues of sexual nature
that need to be discussed and worked through, but also finances and
children. There are often expectations that each of you go into these things
with and if they are not discussed before the marriage you will end up in
frustration in many cases when your expectations clash with one another.

We
didn't do too bad with the sexual stuff, but we never discussed money and
finances and we really needed to do that, though it ended up working out OK,
not as big a problem as I've heard others have. Yet, there are some things
we needed to know about all that and how to manage money that could have
saved us a lot more heartache. But we are getting way off topic here, just a
side note.

I too was a virgin up until marriage, so I commend you on that because I
feel it adds so much more richness to the relationship, personally. While we
have had our problems, my wife and I are in love more than ever before, and
going strong now for over 21 years. I think we also have the best sexual
relationship that ever before as well.

It did take 10-15 years to get
there...and before that it was not always bad, but we both had expectations
and furballs to work through too. As with KSMO, you may find that after
marriage you will find those within yourself and her as well. KSMO can help
reveal those earlier and so that you can deal with them now instead of
during your first year.

But open and honest discussion about these issues
also goes a long ways to helping. If you haven't done that, then you need to
either privately or with a marriage councilor.

> >If I learn how to do it now and she is not open to it. I don't want to be
"addicted" to it and not enjoy love making with her later.
>
> It's not addictive don't worry but be gentle & subtle with her. Can you
talk about the sexual side of your relationship now or is it an unspoken
taboo? 6 months of emotional foreplay could pave the way for a lifetime of
pleasure! Flowers & chocolate are your friends!
>

Since you haven't experienced it yet, allow me to say that you shouldn't
have too much to worry about. As a matter of fact, what you will discover is
that by doing multiples instead of just having ejaculatory orgasms you will
be ready for her whenever she is. If you ended up having an ejaculatory
orgasm and an hour later she wants to do it, you're in a pickle unless you
are one of those guys like Pan was who can keep going and going with little
to no recovery time.

However, sex with a woman is quite different than masturbating. Not that the
orgasm itself is a lot different, for me anyway (as a matter of fact, I can
usually achieve a stronger one by myself) but what makes it different is the
whole new feeling of holding a person and being in a person and the mutual
enjoyment of the experience.

It is really the relational aspect of this that
makes sex different and enjoyable to me, regardless of how much or strong
the orgasm is. I will say, however, that I've had some pretty strong orgasms
having sex, as good as solo, but they seem to be more infrequent than solo.

Having said that, however, I have to say that KSMO will help alleviate that.
Since I've been using the KSMO, even though my wife is not at this point
really open to it, we've had some of the best sexual times together. Some of
that may be the HGR I've been taking too, but I think the KSMO has made me
much more sensitive and so the ejaculatory orgasms are stronger too.

As far as the "addictive" quality of this, I would say that it could be, but
it is not like you are just going to be laying in bed all day doing this. As
with any pleasure, after a period of time your body adjust to it and it
doesn't become as strong. So it seems most folk go about an hour at max on
this. Because of this, you will find that you will actually "need" to do
this less often, and so it will take up less time than someone masturbating
two to three times a day, like I tended to do.

But some might have
experienced this, I just haven't heard and it seems the responses here are
the same as mine, that it ends up not being any more than it was before as
far as time goes, and because of the affects, it actually serves to enhance
the desire and time you spend with your wife sexually. But you will realize
that this as good as it is will not replace sex with her because nothing can
duplicate having another person there to experience this with together, and
if she is open to it, you can both do multiples with each other as well.



> >(In order not to scare partner) Is vocalizing the key sound when making
love the only way to achieve MMO's?
>
> You are best advised to learn this on your own in your own quiet times -
you can also visualize the sound when you are making love but it's best to
be patient & considerate. If she thinks a rolling 2 part sigh is 'normal'
then you should have fewer issues.
>

Yes, and one good place to "practice" (I say practice because it is
difficult to keep one's focus on this otherwise) is while one is driving in
the car somewhere. I do a lot of driving, so I used this quite a bit at
first. There, you can be as vocal as you want, as long as the windows are
rolled up! Once you get it down, what you will find is that it is as much an
internal response which the sound and movements help to trigger.

It moves
your diaphragm and groin muscles in a way that empowers an orgasmic response
apart from the ejaculatory reflex. Once you have that basic movement down,
you don't even need to make the sound itself to accomplish the same thing
(though the sound can add a vibration that can add to it).

Myself, I've
never made a very loud sound except on occasion, and I've practiced while in
bed with my wife and she is not even aware of it because I don't really make
a sound at all. She's not even aware that I'm using it during sex, though I
think she knows I'm doing something different because I'm making slightly
different movements at those points, but it is nothing odd that stands out
really.

I just breath that same way without vocalizing it, basically.
(Incidentally, for the guy that can't hear well, it might be good to simply
describe the way to breath and see if he can pick it up from that, being
aware of his breathing and diaphragm movement.)


Hope all that was helpful and answered the questions.

Sorry guys for not being around lately, I just caught up with post and
things have been a bit hectic lately that I've not been around much. Not
sure when I'll get back either, but had some time to check in today.

Rick

Thanks Anonymous for asking these questions... That are definitely questions that other devout and sensitive people are likely to have as well.

So this dialogue will also help THEM as well! Thank you for having the grace to make the post!

And to Rick, thank you SO much for your thoughtful and compassionate explication of the interface between faith and the erotic intimacy that learning the Key Sound Multiple Orgasm Trigger may engender.

May God's Blessings shower upon you both!
Jack