Ok once you start to practice the KS and that rolling quality eventually the echo effects will start to grow and become easier to notice as you practice correct? Ok now when you begin to practice with genital stimulation you need to to practice over and over until you notice echo effects increase as well right? You can't just expect to leap into multiple o's after practicing the KS without stimulation for months and then expect all of a sudden to leap into orgasms during the first time with erotic genital stimulation correct?

It sounds like you "want" yes or no answers to your questions...that
really tenses things up, forcing things into boxes. KSMO is all
about ALLOWING things to happen...BEING AWARE of what you
are feeling, of how your body is responding to touch and to the key
sound.

Anyway,

"Ok once you start to practice the KS and that rolling quality
eventually the echo effects will start to grow and become easier to
notice as you practice correct?"

YES. It isn't just the practice or the KS that "makes" this happen. As
you settle into the method and into yourself and into how your
body responds (which using the KS will help you do) then yes, the
echo effects will emerge, and then become stronger AS YOU LET
THEM and as you become comfortable with them.

"Ok now when you begin to practice with genital stimulation you
need to to practice over and over until you notice echo effects
increase as well right?"

This question I do not quite understand. The way I read it, I'd say
no. Your question is so forced and condensed that things just do
not work that way.

NOTICING the echo effects is very key to the method. Practicing is
important too, not so much for the "doing" of the practice (as if
simply going through the motions will automatically yield a result, it
won't, you need to be present to what is happening each moment
to you and to your body), but you do practice in order to become
comfortable with the process and to better NOTICE all sorts of
things your body does/feels...some of which are the echo effects.
Stimulation at some level will likely cause you to feel something
unless you have some physical problems, which some people
here do have. (If you have such conditions, there are things you
can do, but that area I am not familiar with...although some people
here are, so hang in there if that is your situation. Someone can
help.)

Otherwise, the ideal is to use as little stimulation as possible and to
start NOTICING THE PRECISE MOMENT where you feel
SOMETHING. ANY FEELING is ok initially, EROTIC feelings
eventually are what you want to hook into. At any rate, when
FEELING something after using almost NO stimulation, on your
EXHALE breath, make the key sound as "your exhale"...in
proportion to the amount of sensation you experienced -- a little
sensation, a little key sound, a larger sensation, a louder key
sound. At that point, STOP STIMULATING, BREATHE
REGULARLY and feel any responses from your body. Those
responses are the echo effects or pleasure waves. Although "mini"
to begin with, they are the orgasms that will grow into full strength,
repeatable (multiple) orgasms. You need to recognize them
however small at first and get comfortable with letting them flow
through you, with letting them happen as you relax more into the
method and into your body and into your self over time.

When hooking your "feeling" and your exhale/key sound together,
you may come to notice that virtually every time you feel a
response to your stimulation, to your touch, whether there is an
erotic feeling or not (but more so with an erotic feeling), YOUR
BREATHING WILL CHANGE. There will be what is called a "larger
than average in-breath". However many people get tripped up
waiting for this LARGE breath, but it doesn't have to be that large,
only "different" from average.

If you feel echoes, let them flow, and as they trail off becoming
smaller, you repeat the process outlined above.

"You can't just expect to leap into multiple o's after practicing the
KS without stimulation for months and then expect all of a sudden
to leap into orgasms during the first time with erotic genital
stimulation correct?"

Again, I do not understand this question. People vary. Some
people get the hang of this in hours or days, others take months,
some take years. While the protocol doesn't change, how one's
mind and body react and respond is as individual a thing as the
individual's life and experiences. Who one is matters. If there are
problem areas of any kind, things will take longer. I do not
understand why you want to quantify things like you CAN'T or you
NEED TO...that sharp logic isn't the right tool for this, believe me, it
gets in the way, it will trip you up.

Perhaps others will respond, Pan gives wonderful detailed
answers as does Jack of course. If you are sincerely interested in
figuring things out, come to the chat this Saturday, you will find the
time listed on the site. At the chat, there can be a live diagnosis, a
"back and forth" that usually uncovers the trouble spots quite
quickly.

Best of luck.

Hey Guys,


First off, Mike I thought that was an excellent reply. There's definitely some gold nuggets in there for the vault! Basically, I can only confirm some of the key points you made, which are so very important in this practice, and yet so commonly missed in the beginning.
Following Mike's point, I agree that, yes, success in this system is more than just the Key Sound. Of course, it's important, that's why Jack calls it the KEY Sound! But, as Mike explained, there's much more to it. Tuning into your body, learning to relax and enjoy those Echo Effects without trying to hold onto them, or make them happen, is equally essential.
Like he said, it's not just about proper practice or proper Key Sounds, it's also about allowing these subtle feelings time to surface and grow within you. There's no way to rush this process. In fact, the only thing you can do to help it move along is to simply enjoy the process of learning, without worrying about your progress! Sounds kinda weird, right? But the bottom line is, the less you worry about IF or WHEN or HOW, the sooner you'll get there. One thing I've noticed among most practitioners, including myself, is that these orgasms just seem to, "happen," all of a sudden. They simply surface one day, after you've become patient and comfortable with your practice. I certainly didn't see my first multiple coming! It started out like any other session and WHAM! I was totally overwhelmed by the experience!
About your next question, "Ok now when you begin to practice with genital stimulation you need to to practice over and over until you notice echo effects increase as well right?" To me, it's the, "over and over," part that sends up a red flag. By this, you are suggesting you have EXPECTATIONS. The amount of time it requires people to practice this system before experiencing multiple orgasms varies greatly. Mike, for instance, learned this much faster than I did, and some people learned this much slower than either of us, and so on.
Let's say you begin practicing, and you are assuming you have to do this, "over and over," before you get results. So your first few times practicing, you are not really open to the chance of having multiple orgasms, because you aren't EXPECTING them. This can limit your opportunities to grow and expand from one session to another.
On the other hand, suppose you approach every session EXPECTING that THIS time you will have multiples. This is equally limiting, because in either case you are not listening to your body. Basically, the best thing you can do is avoid having EXPECTATIONS.
Instead, focus on enjoying yourself, following protocol, being AWARE of any new and different good feelings that surface from moment to moment. Like Mike said, practicing won't automatically yield a result, but AWARENESS of new sensations, Echo Effects, etc, that will help those feelings grow and eventually become orgasms. So approach each practice session as though it were your first. Because as time goes by, you'll likely find that no two sessions are the same. Discovering those subtle differences and tuning into them will help you on your way.
As for your last question, "You can't just expect to leap into multiple o's after practicing the KS without stimulation for months and then expect all of a sudden to leap into orgasms during the first time with erotic genital stimulation correct?"
This is probably true, but not necessarily for everyone. There's no doubt that practicing your KS without stimulation until you are clearly experiencing pleasant Echo Effects every time will be helpful when you do start to use stimulation. However, my experience is that once you've accomplished that, you can do both. So, first find those Echo Effects without stimulation, then try practicing with it. You will probably find it helpful to continue practicing your KS when you are not using stimulation, even after you've already begun using it with it. That may help to continue opening you up to these new sensations between your sessions with stimulation. I have found that continuously practicing both with and without stim allowed me to eventually experience orgasms by using the Key Sound alone.
Ok, I think that's all I can add here for now. I would like to strongly encourage you to read through some of the many posts and especially the recent Archive Chats (maybe try numbers #98-#108) to gain a better perspective on how to approach this practice. But like Mike said, there's no substitute for the active assistance available at the Live Chats. I would recommend attending one or more at your earliest convenience. I have watched Jack help people clear up blocks in ten minutes that they had been struggling with for several months!
I hope this has been helpful. Feel free to respond with any additional questions or comments you may have. Just remember, this is supposed to be FUN!

Best of Luck,

Pan :-)

About practice ok I add stim, then wait for that pleasure sigh like when it starts to feel good and just when I inhale at that moment I exhale with a KS and stop stimulation, then I look for echo effects. I repeat this over and over until I go multiples correct.

What you seem to be asking about is what we call "the protocol".
Following are a couple of quotes by Jack from some recent chats...

"The protocol is to ONLY do JUST ENOUGH stimulation until you
feel ANY LITTLE TINY ITTY BITTY tingle or erotic pleasure, and
then PAUSE the stimulation while you use the Key Sound
to exhale THAT breath that occurred at the VERY MOMENT you
felt the erotic "ahhh..." This is not about "going for" multiple
orgasms. That runaway freight train thing is part of the old
masturbation model that leads to ejaculation, etc. Or a perceived
need for some kind of squeeze technique."

---

"There is definitely a tendency for people to keep waiting for "a lot"
of response, and then getting discouraged. If you are waiting for "a
lot" of response before using a Key Sound, then YOU ARE
PROBABLY WAITING TOO LONG. A >>CORE<< IDEA of this
system is to learn to use the Key Sound on the VERY NEXT
OUTBREATH >>>>>AS SOON<<<<< as you feel ANY
pleasurable feeling. Note that I did NOT say "As soon as you feel a
LOT of pleasurable feeling...THIS IS A VERY CRUCIAL
DIFFERENCE TO UNDERSTAND. The EJACULATION model is to
stimulate until you feel a LOT of feeling and then keep going. What
happens then very often is that you just keep stimulating but you're
not giving your body very much opportunity to become AROUSED,
that is, to RESPOND to the stimulation...This is why a LOT of times
guys hear from a female partner SLOW DOWN... why? Because
many women KNOW that you have to SLOW DOWN the
stimulation to allow the AROUSAL to build."

---

"A LITTLE stimulation JUST UNTIL you notice ANY nice feeling ...
then PAUSE IT...(i.e. the stim) as you immediately exhale using a
GENTLE Key Sound, then REGULAR BREATHING (and NO
stimulation) as you allow some Echo Effects to occur (and enjoy
them!), then a LITTLE more stimulation, and... repeat the process.
That's it! As you can see the actual method is quite simple. The
challenge for the most part is in recognizing and releasing the old
"hurry up" habits, and releasing the sidetracks of waiting for the
erotic response to be a "lot" BEFORE doing any Key Sound, and
mistakenly just increasing the stimulation instead."

---


Best of luck.