At 07:08 PM 11/29/2000 Jack Wrote:

Hi Rodney, thanks for checking in...

Thanks Jack, for your recent reply.
I listen to your tape about once a week.
It is extremely helpful. At the same time it raises many new questions.


I wrote:
>The word "valley" suggests to me two high points and a low point in the
>middle. Where on the torso or abdomen is the low point/ Where are the two
>high points that form the "valley"?


I still did not get an image of where on the body this so-called "valley" forms. Is it just a concept in the mind, or is the "valley" an actual physiological observation that has a high point, a low point and another high point? Is it an internal "valley" inside us?

You also wrote:

I discovered what
I now call the "Key Sound", which seems to automatically move this locus of
breathing from shallow, chest-breathing, to deeper, slower breathing where
the center of energy seems to be below my genitals.

My question: Do you actually feel this locus of breathing as it shifts from the chest area and migrates down to the perineal area? In another chat you refer to an area just forward of the anus. Are you referring to the prostate specifically, or to a variable area just forward of the anus?



You wrote:
the energy moves down
below to the perineal area, and then out through my whole body.


My question:
Out where? Is it spread through out the whole body or is it moving directly out from the perineal area?

I read elsewhere in your chats that a "force" moves "up" through several chakras. Are you saying that once the locus of breathing moves down into the perineal area, the body then spreads this energy back up through the body? Do you consciously direct this kundalini movement back up through the chakras, or does this movement up through the chakras just take place spontaneously?

You wrote:
This is one of the reasons that people with various disabilities such
as Parkinson's disease and Spinal Cord Injury find this method to be so beneficial.

My question:
Do persons with spinal cord injury have limited or no direct "sexual" feeling? Are they able to access or raise sexual feeling just by virtue of practicing the key sound with valley breathing?
That would be incredible. If they can raise orgasmic feeling in this way, it makes me think of the body's ability to produce wet dreams. I experienced these dreams as a teenager. As I recall, they were overwhelming, and I sometimes think that a similar process, or similar channels of nerves and feeling may be maybe accessed through your key sound-valley breathing exercise. All be it, you have taken that experience to another level in by-passing the ejaculation phase.


I wrote:
>Years ago, a chorus instructor advised us to create lung capacity my
>singing long sustained pieces while climbing or hiking a hill or mountain.

You wrote:
Great suggestion! Now you might try practicing the Key Sound (when privacy
is adequate) when hiking, hill-climbing, or doing other kinds of aerobic exercise. You might be surprised! Just be sensitive not to do so in the presence of people who are not consenting to participation in the process...

My comment:
I've always loved to do this more, and now than ever. And I do have access to forest walks where no one is around -- except maybe a rare hunter. Just hope the seldom hunter doesn't decide to shoot. I hope my singing is not all that bad.


> This chorale breathing causes a valley to form and then roll from the
> upper abdomen across to the lower abdomen.

You wrote:
That does sound very similar!


My comment:
So glad to hear that. That kind of singing can cause a great ecstasy - just an over all feeling of well being. Keeps me hiking for a long time.


You wrote:
be sure to browse this Forum for similar descriptions from others who have hiked this "trail" before you!


My comment: I would love to run into another such hiker in the woods. Just to compare notes and the journey travelled. Weather permitting, I enjoy hiking without my clothes. There are some safe naturist opportunities here.

Other than your post saying you researched these methods for about 9 months before arriving at the key sound and valley breathing, I have not noticed mention of how many months it takes a newbie to move from good feelings and ultimately to arrive at a full blown experience? Is it also 9 months?

I know that learning some of the more difficult yoga positions took months to arrive at excellent form.

Have you, or any of your members, considered making a video or a cam shot available?

Once again thanks so much for your articulate reply. I look forward to hearing from you.

Rodney

On 12/6/00 6:15:00 PM, rodney wrote:
>At 07:08 PM 11/29/2000 Jack
>Wrote:
>
>Hi Rodney, thanks for checking
>in...
>
>Thanks Jack, for your recent
>reply.
>I listen to your tape about
>once a week.
>It is extremely helpful. At
>the same time it raises many
>new questions.

That's what we're here for!

Please browse the other posts in this Forum, many of your questions may already be answered there, and you'll find a lot of additional information from others who have posted, as well as from my replies.

Also visit the main website and view the Chat Archives. You can search the Annotated Chat Archive Index page using the FIND function on your browser to search by keyword. This will take you to summaries of the chats where a particular topic has been discussed, and there you will find a link to the full chat transcript.

>
>
>I wrote:
>>The word "valley" suggests to me two high points and a low point in the
>>middle. Where on the torso or abdomen is the low point/ Where are the two
>>high points that form the "valley"?
>
>
>I still did not get an image
>of where on the body this
>so-called "valley" forms. Is
>it just a concept in the mind,
>or is the "valley" an actual
>physiological observation that
>has a high point, a low point
>and another high point? Is it
>an internal "valley" inside
>us?

For me it's a sensation that as I use the Key Sound, I feel the energy moving down my body to below my genitals.

For more details see the posts in both Q & A Key Sound and Q & A Physical in this Forum, and search the Chat Archives Index on the main website using the word "Key". You can also use the word "valley".

It's also a good idea to Search on that keyword in this Forum as well. For details on how to use Search in this Forum, click HELP on the black menu bar, then Searching for Messages.

>You also wrote:
>
>I discovered what
>I now call the "Key Sound",
>which seems to automatically
>move this locus of
>breathing from shallow,
>chest-breathing, to deeper,
>slower breathing where
>the center of energy seems to
>be below my genitals.
>
>My question: Do you actually
>feel this locus of breathing
>as it shifts from the chest
>area and migrates down to the
>perineal area?

Yes... this may not be the same for everyone. But in my experience as I experience increasing arousal I usually notice my breathing becoming shallower, and higher up in my chest. This is most pronounced as I approach orgasm with ejaculation.

So my goal was to find a way to move that energy lower in my body, while continuing to experience increasing arousal.

That's what led me to discover the Key Sound, since making that sound correctly as I demonstrate in the Audio Seminar automatically does this for me.

Another keyword to search on is "rolling" because for the Key Sound to be used correctly, one must be sure that it contains that unique "rolling" quality that I discuss in the Audio Seminar, and in this Forum and in many of the past chats.

> In another chat
>you refer to an area just
>forward of the anus. Are you
>referring to the prostate
>specifically,

no...

> or to a variable
>area just forward of the anus?

yes...
>
>
>You wrote:
>the energy moves down
>below to the perineal area,
>and then out through my whole
>body.
>
>
>My question:
>Out where? Is it spread
>through out the whole body or
>is it moving directly out from
>the perineal area?

That varies. Sometimes it's out from the perineal area, sometimes out from my heart or genitals.

I suggest you practice the Key Sound and then post what you ARE experiencing, and we can go from there. Otherwise practice can get clouded with all of the comments by others and distract you from tuning in to what your own experience is.

>I read elsewhere in your chats
>that a "force" moves "up"
>through several chakras. Are
>you saying that once the locus
>of breathing moves down into
>the perineal area, the body
>then spreads this energy back
>up through the body?

Yes that can happen!

> Do you
>consciously direct this
>kundalini movement back up
>through the chakras, or does
>this movement up through the
>chakras just take place
>spontaneously?

At first it was spontaneous, then I learned how to move it consciously by using the Key Sound breaths.

>You wrote:
>This is one of the reasons
>that people with various
>disabilities such
>as Parkinson's disease and
>Spinal Cord Injury find this
>method to be so beneficial.
>
>My question:
>Do persons with spinal cord
>injury have limited or no
>direct "sexual" feeling?

That can often be the case. It varies from individual to individual.

For more information and discussion about the sexuality of disabled persons, check out my friend Mitch Tepper's superb site at http://www.sexualhealth.com

> Are
>they able to access or raise
>sexual feeling just by virtue
>of practicing the key sound
>with valley breathing?

Those who have taken advantage of the information in my Audio Seminar!

>That would be incredible. If
>they can raise orgasmic
>feeling in this way, it makes
>me think of the body's ability
>to produce wet dreams. I
>experienced these dreams as a
>teenager. As I recall, they
>were overwhelming, and I
>sometimes think that a similar
>process, or similar channels
>of nerves and feeling may be
>maybe accessed through your
>key sound-valley breathing
>exercise.

Certainly the "overwhelming" feeling is characteristic of the moments just before non-ejac MMO. In fact the feelings of being overwhelmed sometimes can create a kind of fear to which some people respond by shifting away from from the Key Sound path and just "going for" ejaculation to relieve this tension!

Ron talks about this choice point very lucidly in the interview at the end of the Audio Seminar, and we discuss it elsewhere in the Forum and in the Chat Archives.

In the Forum see "Fears along the Way" and search on "terror" as in "Terror at the Gate", both in this Forum and in the Chat Archives.

> All be it, you have
>taken that experience to
>another level in by-passing
>the ejaculation phase.

That's for SURE!!!

>
>I wrote:
>>Years ago, a chorus instructor advised us to create lung capacity my
>>singing long sustained pieces while climbing or hiking a hill or mountain.
>
>You wrote:
>Great suggestion! Now you
>might try practicing the Key
>Sound (when privacy
>is adequate) when hiking,
>hill-climbing, or doing other
>kinds of aerobic exercise. You
>might be surprised! Just be
>sensitive not to do so in the
>presence of people who are not
>consenting to participation in
>the process...
>
>My comment:
>I've always loved to do this
>more, and now than ever. And I
>do have access to forest walks
>where no one is around --

Great!!!


>except maybe a rare hunter.

>Just hope the seldom hunter
>doesn't decide to shoot.

Best not to do it during hunting season. He might think he's found a moose in heat! :-)

And wear hunter safety colors!!!

> I
>hope my singing is not all
>that bad.

No kidding! :-)

But seriously, that's why I urged you to seek privacy, because for people who don't know what you're up to and haven't consented to participate, this deeply primal sound can be very upsetting!

>
>> This chorale breathing causes a valley to form and then roll from the
>> upper abdomen across to the lower abdomen.
>
>You wrote:
>That does sound very similar!
>
>
>My comment:
>So glad to hear that. That
>kind of singing can cause a
>great ecstasy - just an over
>all feeling of well being.

Sounds like you're very close!!!

>Keeps me hiking for a long
>time.

I can certainly appreciate that!

>
>You wrote:
>be sure to browse this Forum
>for similar descriptions from
>others who have hiked this
>"trail" before you!
>
>
>My comment: I would love to
>run into another such hiker in
>the woods. Just to compare
>notes and the journey
>travelled. Weather permitting,
>I enjoy hiking without my
>clothes. There are some safe
>naturist opportunities here.

Sounds ecstatic!

>Other than your post saying
>you researched these methods
>for about 9 months before
>arriving at the key sound and
>valley breathing, I have not
>noticed mention of how many
>months it takes a newbie to
>move from good feelings and
>ultimately to arrive at a full
>blown experience? Is it also 9
>months?

Wow that varies from person to person, depending on how many emotional furballs they have to work through, and a range of other factors. It's VERY individual! Some people report having the experience very soon after they begin the practice, others report its taking a while longer.

The main thing I think is to tune in to what YOU are feeling and ASK your body to help you REMEMBER how to have the experience. I say REMEMBER because this information is CODED IN to your DNA, and every cell in your body wants to experience this life force energy!

>I know that learning some of
>the more difficult yoga
>positions took months to
>arrive at excellent form.
>
>Have you, or any of your
>members, considered making a
>video or a cam shot available?

Some folks have discussed that, but I'm not the video type for this kind of thing. I'm actually a very private person so this particular medium of Forum works for me.

Also, some have said that they prefer this approach, since video might trigger competitive feelings, etc. which could get in the way. I guess you could say... different strokes for different folks, eh? :-)

>Once again thanks so much for
>your articulate reply. I look
>forward to hearing from you.
>
>Rodney

You're very welcome!

I encourage you to take a break from thinking about how it's "supposed" to happen, and shift your attention to tuning in to what you ARE experiencing as you practice, and reporting that.

Best rewards,
JJ

<PRE>On 12/10/00 10:50:00 AM, Jack wrote:
>>My question: Do you actually feel this locus of breathing as it shifts from the chest area and migrates down to the perineal area?
>
>Yes... this may not be the same for everyone. But in my experience as I experience increasing arousal I usually notice my breathing becoming shallower, and higher up in my chest. This is most
pronounced as I approach orgasm with ejaculation.
>
>I suggest you practice the Key Sound and then post what you ARE experiencing, and we can go from there. Otherwise practice can get clouded with all of the comments by others and distract you from tuning in to what your own experience is....
>The main thing I think is to tune in to what YOU are feeling and ASK your body to help you REMEMBER how to have the experience. I say REMEMBER because this information is CODED IN to your DNA, and every cell in your body wants to experience this life force energy!


Great idea. Thus far, I can report that I have experienced overall feelings of sensual pleasure accompanied by an acute awareness of my physical self, my muscles, sinew, my body. It's hard to explain. These feelings, come anytime and anywhere.

As you already know, having seen some similarities to the years of my yoga practice, I guessed that whatever changes my body would undergo, whether it is an "awakening" of feelings, a second "adolescence," a growth of new nerve pathways, or whatever; then form could be important. Some of the advanced yoga positions required months of practice for me to grow into. I was working with a back disability, but over a period of time, by maintaining form and practice it always came together. I would accomplish advanced positions that my body, particularly my back, could not have handled at the beginning.

I gave yoga the time and respect it needed. For some reason I thought I might apply a similarly disciplined approach to your techniques.
However, I'm glad to see that you suggest I lighten up.

>> Do you consciously direct this kundalini movement back up through the chakras, or does
this movement up through the chakras just take place spontaneously?
>At first it was spontaneous, then I learned how to move it consciously by using the Key Sound breaths.

You also wrote elsewhere:
>In the Forum see "Fears along the Way" and search on "terror" as in "Terror at the Gate", both in this Forum and in the Chat Archives.
>
Is there a suggested read on "kundalini." Or, has that field of research become outdated by your discoveries?


I wrote:
>>...it makes me think of the body's ability to produce wet dreams. I experienced these dreams as a teenager. As I recall, they were overwhelming, and I sometimes think that a similar process, or similar channels of nerves and feeling may be accessed through your key sound-valley breathing exercise.

You wrote:
>Certainly the "overwhelming" feeling is characteristic of the moments just before non-ejac MMO. In fact the feelings of being overwhelmed sometimes can create a kind of fear to which some people respond by shifting away from the Key Sound path and just "going for" ejaculation to relieve this tension!

Positively insightful. This suggests that during those wet dream experiences of long ago, my body felt overwhelmed ? even though in a dream ? and chose ejaculation as the outlet. Wonder what might have happened if my adolescent nature had not chosen that path. Could an adolescent have experienced the overwhelming whole body experience you describe?
Here's a long shot speculation. Western religious literature refers to special folks who claim to have experienced a "rapture." Now I wonder what were they really doing? Chanting -- moaning and groaning -- themselves into a rapture?

Always enjoy your on target comments. Thanks again,

Rodney</PRE>

On 12/11/00 4:56:00 PM, rodney wrote:

>>>My question: Do you actually feel this locus of breathing as it shifts from the chest area and migrates down to the perineal area?

>On 12/10/00 10:50:00 AM, Jack wrote:
[snip, see previous post for details...]

>>The main thing I think is to tune in to what YOU are feeling and ASK your body to help you REMEMBER how to have the experience. I say REMEMBER because this information is CODED IN to your DNA, and every cell in your body wants to experience this life force energy!

>Great idea.

Thanks for letting me know what's helpful!

> Thus far, I can report that
>I have experienced overall feelings of
>sensual pleasure accompanied by an acute
>awareness of my physical self, my
>muscles, sinew, my body. It's hard to
>explain.

This is a GREAT sign!!! This shows that your erotic self is awakening! that those cells that I referred to are awakening!

I'm also very excited and encouraged to hear you report that "It's hard to explain." This "ineffable" quality (if you're not familiar with that word, look it up in a dictionary and see if you agree with its use in this context!) is a very typical and encouraging milestone along the path to the "Gate of the Thousandfold Pleasures", that is, to experiencing full Key Sound Multiple Orgasms.

It's a sign that your use of the Key Sound is working!!! Elsewhere in this Forum when one of your fellow pioneers has reported this ineffable quality, I have said "There is the stuff of poetry!"

By that I mean that I want to encourage you to attempt to describe the indescribable, especially when you are IN the experience. You may surprise yourself with the beautiful expressions that "spring forth" from this activity.

> These feelings, come anytime
>and anywhere.

This too is typical of my experience, and of that reported by a number of others in posts to this Forum.

As I have described elsewhere, when I have awakened my erotic self in this way, I can experience orgasmic feelings appreciating a beautiful flower, a wonderful music passage, the loving gaze of my beloved, a particularly enjoyable walk or run, and so on.

This goes directly to what I've read in tantric texts which report the masters as saying that the cosmos itself is always in orgasm. Our practice is to teach us how to just open to the orgasm that is already happening!

Of course, given the particular culture we live in, this practice must be exercised with prudence, and not be done in the presence of children or others who are not informed and consenting to participating in sharing the energy. These are the "ethics of eros" if you will.

>As you already know, having seen some
>similarities to the years of my yoga
>practice, I guessed that whatever
>changes my body would undergo, whether
>it is an "awakening" of feelings, a
>second "adolescence," a growth of new
>nerve pathways, or whatever; then form
>could be important.

Not only important, but facilitative. Note that the positions illustrated in the famous erotic temple sculptures and paintings in India are "mudras"... that is, forms and body positions which enhance and facilitate the flow of the "kundalini", the erotic orgasmic energy flow.

The next time you are feeling the feelings you describe, you might practice adopting some of these poses and practice the Key Sound while doing so. Please report here what you discover!

> Some of the advanced
>yoga positions required months of
>practice for me to grow into.

Yes this is similar. Yoga is a journey, and it too can release emotional "furballs" that are bound up in the muscles, as Wilhelm Reich described... learning to love our body in this way can permit the healing of these wounds, and the rewards are... orgasmic!!!

>I was
>working with a back disability, but over
>a period of time, by maintaining form
>and practice it always came together. I
>would accomplish advanced positions
>that my body, particularly my back,
>could not have handled at the beginning.

As you integrate the yoga practice with the Key Sound practice, perhaps you could make a post to the "Disabilities & Key Sound Orgasm - General Discussion" conference. This could be very helpful for others with disabilities.

>I gave yoga the time and respect it
>needed. For some reason I thought I
>might apply a similarly disciplined
>approach to your techniques.

I do consider this to be a yoga practice, so that makes perfect sense. At its fullest potential it is a physical, emotional, and spiritual journey.

>However, I'm glad to see that you
>suggest I lighten up.

Yes, by that I meant to beware of the risk of "over-thinking" it. There can be a trap there that thinking about the "right way" etc. can actually distance you from what your body is trying to teach your consciousness. Let your body and your sensations and emotions be your teachers! That's how I made the discovery in the first place!

>>> Do you consciously direct this kundalini movement back up through the chakras, or does
>this movement up through the chakras
>just take place spontaneously?

>>At first it was spontaneous, then I learned how to move it consciously by using the Key Sound breaths.

That is, both options are possible. The important thing is not to force it. Usually I adopt an attitude of receptive awareness, and then use my conscious intention to enhance the movement of the energy in the direction it already seems to want to flow.


>You also wrote elsewhere:
>>In the Forum see "Fears along the Way" and search on "terror" as in "Terror at the Gate", both in this Forum and in the Chat Archives.
>>

>Is there a suggested read on
>"kundalini."

There are MANY tantric resources that speak to this. Phillip Rawson's work is excellent. His works are also a good source for the erotic mudra temple sculptures.

> Or, has that field of
>research become outdated by your
>discoveries?

No way! :-) My discovery is another contribution to this erotic body of knowledge! It is not intended to replace it.

>I wrote:
>>>...it makes me think of the body's ability to produce wet dreams. I experienced these dreams as a teenager. As I recall, they were overwhelming, and I sometimes think that a similar process, or similar channels of nerves and feeling may be accessed through your key sound-valley breathing exercise.
>You wrote:
>>Certainly the "overwhelming" feeling is characteristic of the moments just before non-ejac MMO. In fact the feelings of being overwhelmed sometimes can create a kind of fear to which some people respond by shifting away from the Key Sound path and just "going for" ejaculation to relieve this tension!

>Positively insightful. This suggests
>that during those wet dream experiences
>of long ago, my body felt overwhelmed ?
>even though in a dream ? and chose
>ejaculation as the outlet. Wonder what
>might have happened if my adolescent
>nature had not chosen that path. Could
>an adolescent have experienced the
>overwhelming whole body experience you
>describe?

My sense of this is that in ancient times, and perhaps even today in less sexually repressive cultures, the "Men's Mysteries" that were/are taught adolescents as they reach puberty would include this kind of information.

>Here's a long shot speculation. Western
>religious literature refers to special
>folks who claim to have experienced a
>"rapture." Now I wonder what were they
>really doing?

> Chanting -- moaning and
>groaning -- themselves into a rapture?

Indeed! Some authors surmise that these were in fact erotic ecstasies which have been re-interpreted and redefined to serve the worldview of certain of the religious organizations.

>Always enjoy your on target comments.

Thank you. Likewise!

>Thanks again,
>Rodney

You're very welcome! I look forward to further reports!

Best rewards,
Jack

>> Thus far, I can report that I have experienced overall feelings of sensual pleasure accompanied by an acute awareness of my physical self, my muscles, sinew, my body. It's hard to explain.

**This is a GREAT sign!!! This shows that your erotic self is awakening! that those
cells that I referred to are awakening! I'm also very excited and encouraged to hear you report that "It's hard to explain." This "ineffable" quality is a very typical and encouraging milestone along the path to the "Gate of the Thousandfold Pleasures", that is, to experiencing full Key Sound Multiple Orgasms.

**It's a sign that your use of the Key Sound is working!!!....I want to encourage you to attempt to describe the indescribable, especially when you are IN the experience. You may surprise yourself with the beautiful expressions that "spring forth" from this activity.

>>Always wanted to take time to write some poetry.

**.... Note that the positions illustrated in the famous erotic temple sculptures and paintings in India are "mudras"... that is, forms and body positions which enhance and facilitate the flow of the "kundalini", the erotic orgasmic energy flow. The next time you are feeling the feelings you describe, you might practice adopting some of these poses and practice the Key Sound while doing so. Please report here what you discover!

>>I 'll do a web search for erotic temples. Today I tried breathing while assuming the inverted yoga position. This is safely done at my age by an adaptation I do with the assistance of my weight machine. First day only, I felt resonance in the groin area.

>I gave yoga the time and respect it needed. For some reason I thought I might apply a similarly disciplined approach to your techniques.

**I do consider this to be a yoga practice, so that makes perfect sense. At its fullest
potential it is a physical, emotional, and spiritual journey.

>>you also referred earlier to an "ethics of eros". Stated within your stated context, that makes this practice a much safer journey than I had originally thought.

>Is there a suggested read on "kundalini."

**There are MANY tantric resources that speak to this. Phillip Rawson's work is
excellent. His works are also a good source for the erotic mudra temple sculptures.

>>Sold at your website? I'll check there first.

>>Minor question: In your tape you state that it is important to breathe a normal breath 3 or four time before starting a KEY SOUND and Valley breath again. You also state, when you feel that gasp in your chest or shallow breathing appear, then use the Key Sound. I have encountered times when I felt several chest breathes in a row.
What happens here? Do, I ignore some of those signals and stay with the 1 Key Sound to 3 or 4 normal breaths pattern? Or, do I just go with a succession of Key Sounds?

>>Timing. I notice that my lung capacity allows me to hold a Key Sound for much longer than is demonstrated on the tape. Is it important to keep the Key Sound brief? Or, is it OK to hold it for a longer duration - almost twice as long?

Progress report: While lying down and relaxing in the evening I practiced several KS with VB patterns. In one light and casual stroke, I ran my hand over my chest, stomach, and groin. I felt a mild sexual sensation. I was then surprised to experience a sexual wave flow from the groin area up into the abdominals. It felt like a wave coming over me -- as if on a beach. It then subsided... From where it came?

I repeated the pattern of breathing-- hoping for an encore. Moments later I felt weaker echoes of the earlier wave. But not like the original wave, which was so easy, so relaxed, so rapturous,... again hard to explain.

Have not experienced quite the same sensations since then. 3 days ago.

Rodney

At 01:03 AM 12/17/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>From: "Rodney" <roderick9@cbgb.com>
>
>
> >> Thus far, I can report that I have experienced overall feelings of
> sensual pleasure accompanied by an acute awareness of my physical self,
> my muscles, sinew, my body. It's hard to explain.
>
>**This is a GREAT sign!!! This shows that your erotic self is awakening!
>that those
>cells that I referred to are awakening! I'm also very excited and
>encouraged to hear you report that "It's hard to explain." This
>"ineffable" quality is a very typical and encouraging milestone along the
>path to the "Gate of the Thousandfold Pleasures", that is, to experiencing
>full Key Sound Multiple Orgasms.
>
>**It's a sign that your use of the Key Sound is working!!!....I want to
>encourage you to attempt to describe the indescribable, especially when
>you are IN the experience. You may surprise yourself with the beautiful
>expressions that "spring forth" from this activity.
>
> >>Always wanted to take time to write some poetry.

I hope you'll share here any writing that has been MMO-inspired or motivated!

RE: Tantra books...

>>Sold at your website? I'll check there first.

It's not in our main catalog, but bookmark this link, to search for related
titles, even used, rare, or out of print:

http://www.jackjohnstonseminars.com/book_search1.html

> >>Minor question: In your tape you state that it is important to breathe
> a normal breath 3 or four time before starting a KEY SOUND and Valley
> breath again. You also state, when you feel that gasp in your chest or
> shallow breathing appear, then use the Key Sound. I have encountered
> times when I felt several chest breathes in a row.
>What happens here? Do, I ignore some of those signals and stay with the 1
>Key Sound to 3 or 4 normal breaths pattern? Or, do I just go with a
>succession of Key Sounds?

I would still suggest every three or four breaths or so. Otherwise you
might hyperventilate. Just take it easy, and use the "natural breathing"
intervals to tune in to your body's responses to your use of the Key Sound.
These responses I refer to as "Echo Effects" and you can search on "echo"
in this Forum's Search Engine, as well as using the Find function of your
browser to search on that key word in the Annotated Chat Archive Index at
http://www.multiples.com/chats/multi..._archives.html

Please be sure to bookmark that link! :-)


> >>Timing. I notice that my lung capacity allows me to hold a Key Sound
> for much longer than is demonstrated on the Audio Seminar. Is it important to keep
> the Key Sound brief? Or, is it OK to hold it for a longer duration -
> almost twice as long?

I don't know what you mean by "holding" the sound... since it is not a
single tone, but a complex sound with the essential "rolling" quality in
the middle of it. Feel free to see what different effects you get... no
hard rules there... For me, I just use the Key Sound as I demonstrate in
the Audio Seminar to exhale that particular breath.

By all means experiment with doing that exhalation more slowly to see if it
stimulates stronger responses.

Please post here what sensations you notice in your body as a result.

>Progress report: While lying down and relaxing in the evening I practiced
>several KS with VB patterns. In one light and casual stroke, I ran my hand
>over my chest, stomach, and groin. I felt a mild sexual sensation. I was
>then surprised to experience a sexual wave flow from the groin area up
>into the abdominals. It felt like a wave coming over me -- as if on a
>beach. It then subsided... From where it came?

Those are precisely the waves I'm talking about! Congratulations!!! You are
using the Key Sound to awaken the kundalini serpent, that is, the orgasmic
energy! Non-ejaculatory Key Sound Multiple Orgasms are a result of
continuing that very pattern, as you GRADUALLY increase erotic stimulation.

As you do so, the erotic pleasure waves will tend to get bigger and bigger
(sometimes reaching a plateau for a few Key Sounds + waves, then continuing
to increase), until they get so intense you feel like you "can't stand
it"... if you do as Ron described in the interview at the end of the audio
Audio Seminar, and continue the Key Sound as you described above... moving
THROUGH that "can't stand it" feeling, but without changing gears and "just
going for" ejaculation... you are very likely to experience the
non-ejaculatory, "cosmically intense" MULTIPLE orgasms I describe.

In fact, those waves that you have already described above, I call
"proto-orgasms"... it's the same thing as the full-on cosmic ones, just of
a somewhat lesser intensity.

You might also search on the keyword "wave" in this Forum and in the
Annotated Chat Archive Index page.

>I repeated the pattern of breathing-- hoping for an encore. Moments later
>I felt weaker echoes of the earlier wave. But not like the original wave,
>which was so easy, so relaxed, so rapturous,... again hard to explain.

That's the ticket! The weaker echoes are the plateau I mentioned above.
Don't worry, just give your body a little rest, and then continue the
process. If they begin to get stronger again, then continue. If they
persist in subsiding at that point, just take a break or call it a night...
til next time! Listen and respect the cues that your body is giving you...

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

>Have not experienced quite the same sensations since then. 3 days ago.
>
>Rodney

No worries, mate... Don't force the journey, any more than you would your
yoga journey. Give your body and it's eroto-sensate nervous system time to
adjust and find it's own daily, weekly, monthly rhythms!

Your posts are great Rodney! I think they will be helpful to many!

Please be patient with my responses... some times it will take a while as I
tend to work 12 to 16 hour days as it is, with this and my two other
websites...

Best rewards!!!
Jack

I have practiced yoga breathing for many years. I am new in this mmo. The word "valley" suggests to
me two high points and a low point in the middle. Where on the torso or abdomen is the low point/
Where are the two high points that form the
"valley"? Does this low point change duringthe course of making the aauhh sound? Does it, for
instance, travel across the abdomen? Years ago, a chorus instructor advised us to create lung
capacity my singing long sustained pieces while
climbing or hiking a hill or mountain. I have
developed a lung capacity measured at 30 % above norm
of my size and age. This chorale breathing causes a
valley to form and then roll from the upper abdomen
across to the lower abdomen. I am enjoying the
new breathing -- as I understand it so far.

Hi Rodney, thanks for checking in...

At 07:08 PM 11/29/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>I have practiced yoga breathing for many years.

That stands you in good stead for this journey!

> I am new in this mmmo.

Welcome!

>The word "valley" suggests to me two high points and a low point in the
>middle. Where on the torso or abdomen is the low point/ Where are the two
>high points that form the "valley"?

As I explain in my audio seminar Male Multiple Orgasm Step by Step, as well
as in various chats in the archives and here in the Forum, generally the
tendency for men prior to ejaculation seems to be that the locus or focal
point of breathing as arousal increases tends to move up into the chest area.

My goal in questing for non-ejac multiples was to find a way of breathing,
without having to worry about being vigilant to effect last minute tensing
just prior to the so-called "Point of No Return" (PONR), that could move
this locus lower in my body, to the area just below my genitals... to see
if my body could sustain ever-higher levels arousal while at the same time
by-passing ejaculation by doing so.

After experimenting with a number of different ways which were only
partially successful, after about 9 months of searching, I discovered what
I now call the "Key Sound", which seems to automatically move this locus of
breathing from shallow, chest-breathing, to deeper, slower breathing where
the center of energy seems to be below my genitals.

I found that by using the Key Sound as I demonstrate in the audio seminar,
I could sustain ever higher levels of arousal, and whenever I used the Key Sound, it seemed that this increased erotic energy would diffuse and
intensify throughout my entire body, rather than becoming more concentrated
just in the genital area as was my experience with orgasm that included
ejaculation.

>Does this low point change during the course of making the aauhh sound?
>Does it, for instance, travel across the abdomen?

First, it's not an aauhh sound, but precisely as I demonstrate in my audio seminar

That change will hear in the middle of it represents a rolling quality
to the sound that is essential to producing the effect I'm describing. In
doing that, rather than moving across the abdomen, the energy moves down
below to the perineal area, and then out through my whole body.

Others who have posted here have described similar experience, where their
whole body "feels like a giant penis", that is completely eroticized.

It's when then arousal becomes so intense that it feels like one wants to
"just go for" ejaculation, as Ron describes in the interview about his
first time, found at the end of the Audio Seminar, that one can learn to
choose to continue with the Key Sound, and move through to a new realm of
cosmic orgasmic feeling that often bypasses ejaculation.

If ejaculation does happen to occur, it's usually way more intense than
what one is accustomed to.

The non-ejaculatory, highly intense orgasms can even occur without
erection. Some of the most intense experiences can actually happen in this
way. This is one of the reasons that people with various disabilities such
as Parkinson's disease and Spinal Cord Injury find this method to be so
beneficial.

>Years ago, a chorus instructor advised us to create lung capacity my
>singing long sustained pieces while climbing or hiking a hill or mountain.

Great suggestion! Now you might try practicing the Key Sound(when privacy
is adequate) when hiking, hill-climbing, or doing other kinds of aerobic
exercise. You might be surprised! Just be sensitive not to do so in the
presence of people who are not consenting to participation in the process...

>I have developed a lung capacity measured at 30 % above norm of my size
>and age.

That's excellent! Congratulations!!!

> This chorale breathing causes a valley to form and then roll from the
> upper abdomen across to the lower abdomen.

That does sound very similar!

>I am enjoying the new breathing -- as I understand it so far.

That's great Rodney! Thanks for the post. Please continue to check in as
you progress, and be sure to browse this Forum for similar descriptions
from others who have hiked this "trail" before you!

Best regards,
Jack<