Session start: Sun Nov 2 01:30:22 2008
Jack> Latest chat transcript is available here : Multiple Orgasm Trigger(tm) Discussion ChatBox Transcript of 2008111
Jack> ***** Welcome to the Multiple Orgasm Trigger™ Training and Discussion Chat of 20081102 hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA
Jack> Hi rumel, I'm glad you could make it back!
rumel> Good evening Jack, glad to be here.
rumel> I took a look at the spinning lady you provided a link to, what is the significance of that?
Jack> How goes your Beginner's Mind practice? :)
Jack> Which way does she spin for you?
rumel> I could get her to spin both ways.
rumel> but only when I broke my concentration on the image.
rumel> I do keep beginners mind practice close to my heart.
Jack> For reference to others, here is the Spinning Lady to which Rumel is referring.
Jack> That is VERY interesting and I think it relates to your Multiple Orgasm Trigger™ practice!
rumel> I found I could not intentionally make her spin in a different direction.
Jack> RE: the part where you said you were able to effect the shift in your perception of the way the lady was turning, when you let go of concentration. ;)
rumel> It was only when I broke off the concentration and came back to the image would it change.
rumel> OK how does it relate?
Jack> Yep... Beginner's Mind.
Jack> Well, take a moment to puzzle over that.
Jack> It may be an opportunity for you to practice tolerating a little bit of constructive confusion.
rumel> Conscious mind = fixation, sub-conscious mind = flexible?
Jack> Hmmm... What's your hunch?
rumel> My hunch is both equations are true.
Jack> Ok, how may that working hypothesis help you with the lady, and with KSMO?
rumel> If I allow my conscious mind to let go, the lady will be free to spin in alternating direction as my sub-conscious desires, total flexibility.
Jack> BTW, there's a spiritually oriented group near where I live that has a slogan that appeals to me: We have questions for all of your answers.
Jack> Yeah that might be fun to practice.
rumel> Yes, I've heard that before it's a cool saying.:)
Jack> See what you might learn from it. And of course, keep in mind that you already HAVE succeeded in perceiving her as rotating the other, when you let go of trying to.
Jack> I'm glad that you like the saying, and didn't think I was just trying to be a smart ass. :)
rumel> I think ther is a certain Zen quality to that saying.
Jack> Yeah, I really agree. I agree with you that it has a koan quality. Ok, so you seem to succeed in perceiving the lady turn the other way when you let go of trying to make her do so. What's your hunch about how that's already started happening for you in your KSMO practice as well?
rumel> In the few Chat sessions I've attended, I've never detected you making smart ass remarks.
Jack> Whew!
Jack> Thanks!
Jack> Even when I'm being a smart ass here, it's with a positive intention of helping everyone.
Jack> And I'm grateful for your reassurance.
Jack> BTW, when you first look at the Turning Lady, is she turning clockwise or counterclockwise?
rumel> With regard to KSMO, I think it means I need to remain non judgemental about the process.
Jack> Does that working hypothesis resonate for you?
rumel> The very first time I looked, she was turning clockwise when viewed from above.
rumel> Yes that is the hypothesis I am proceeding with.
Jack> Seems to me that it has been serving you pretty well thus far.
rumel> I think that hypothesis serves one well in many aspects of life.
rumel> Isn't that in sync with the "Beginner's Mind"?
Jack> That is, it seems like you were getting somewhat frustrated for a while, but after reading the Beginners Mind lecture, it seemed like you found some Inner Peace, and noticed some positive Echo Effects™.
Jack> Yeah we were both typing Beginner's Mind at about the same time! :)
Jack> Yeah I agree re: the many aspects of life. It certainly has served me that way.
Jack> It was the approach I adopted when I set upon the quest of discovering the Multiple Orgasm Trigger™.
rumel> I think I become frustrated when things don't happen as quickly as I'd like,
rumel> but I have become more tolerant of the time factor rewiring issues require.
Jack> RE: early tendency to become frustrated, I want to assure you that you are far from alone in that regard!
Jack> Yeah, that act of becoming more tolerant of yourself and your INNER wisdom and ability is a great leap forward in your practice!
rumel> Yes, I see that here and over on the Aneros Forum frequently.
Jack> Pretty much everyone who comes here to learn this lifelong skill, arrive with a big bucket of expectations in one hand, and another big bucket of hurry up in the other!
Jack> Here's a little story about THAT issue. It's called the Story of the Empty Cup
rumel> I feel learning patience with myself is a loving act in and of itself.
Jack> That is VERY lovely!
Jack> Imho, that is one of the most loving gifts you can give yourself in this life.
Jack> When you read the Story of the Empty Cup, think of those two buckets I just mentioned.
Jack> In fact, I just got an intuition that it can be a great preparation for Multiple Orgasm Trigger™ practice sessions to visualize having a great full bucket in each hand, and then to see how full they are, feel how HEAVY they are, hear all of that stuff sloshing around in there...
rumel> I'm not going to try and read it now because I do have a specific question to ask.
Jack> Then visualize yourself slowly emptying each bucket completely, and setting them down, as you being begin practice.
Jack> I consciously intended to type begin and my subconscious teacher wrote being as in Being-practice - The Practice of Being so I decided not to censor that, but to leave it in!
rumel> My question is - These physical echo effects that I am experiencing, do they diminish over time or do they increase?
Jack> That's fine re: your choosing your own good time to read the story.
Jack> RE: Your question: You'll find out.
Jack> I'm very glad you asked that question actually, because
rumel> :eek:
rumel> :)
Jack> it's been quite a long time since I've reminded myself and the people in our community about a very common tendency in our culture - especially for many if not most males - and an increasing number of women -
Jack> and that tendency is... that
Jack> we want to think ourselves all the way through a process before beginning the process.
Jack> In many instances, that can serve us well.
Jack> The challenge though is that when you are exploring totally new territory, there's no practical way to do that.
Jack> THAT is why I love the metaphor of Sailing Uncharted Waters so much.
Jack> In fact, even when you're sailing in relatively familiar waters, the trip is never exactly the same...
Jack> Columbus was looking for a short route to India when he bumped into the North American continent.
Jack> And most people thought he was a madman who was either going to get eaten by Dragons or simply fall off the edge of the world!
Jack> That's why First Nations people were erroneously called Indians and still understandably find that appellation utterly offensive.
rumel> Yes, I understand that, but even Columbus had to be an accomplished sailor before attempting such a feat, the old boy scout motto "Be prepared" applies here.
Jack> He certainly had to be a good sailor but the only way he was able to
Jack> find what he wound up finding, which was NOT what he'd set out for, was to go in completely the opposite direction of everyone else!
Jack> Notwithstanding the Vikings and Amerigo Vespucci, and those who tried but didn't survive to tell the tale, of course.
Jack> Paradoxically the way to prepare for a completely new experience is to empty those buckets first! To show up with Beginner's Mind.
rumel> Don't you think he asked as many sailors as he could what they had seen on their westward voyages?
Jack> To acknowledge that when something is truly unknown, there is a FEAR associated with that. Especially males in our culture are taught to deny fear by trying to think their way through, ahead of time.
Jack> But the Zen Masters tell you to go back and sit on the Temple Steps until you can return with Beginner's Mind - with an EMPTY cup, and then they'll show you how to find the Well.
rumel> I'm guessing he got as much information as he could and then made the "leap of faith" to begin his journey.
Jack> Sure, re: sailors... but very few had survived so there wasn't a ton of data. Or they survived and just decided to stay, and maybe some stayed but weren't particularly welcomed warmly shall we say.
Jack> Getting as much information as you can is filling the buckets, especially if you're asking people who haven't had the experience.
Jack> The other thing is, that the path to learning THIS skill is different for every individual.
Jack> And I reiterate that the practice of trying to get as much information (sic!) as possible may devolve into a ritual of trying to cope with the Fear of the Unknown. To stay tied up to the pier.
rumel> I think he had the Beginners Mind too but as you say he did need to dump the bucket in the end just to begin.
Jack> Even the best sailor in the world knows that he or she will necessarily make unanticipated course changes.
Jack> Yes, and at some point, he just had to cast off and set sail, with all of the mocking hoots and howls in his ears as he did so!
rumel> OK, I get it, the original question is moot. Just be open to whatever transpires and trust that it will work well.
Jack> Yeah and remember that your compass rests in your heart.
Jack> And remember that in the case of our community of 13 years and my experience 16 years with this, you are not alone.
Jack> Your personal Adventure is a solitary one in a way, of course, and yet it is not. We're all here to help and support your Quest.
Jack> Welcome back, Tiphereth!
tiphereth> Hey thanks . I took a nap earlier. )
rumel> Hi tiphereth, congratulations on your latest progress, I am happy for you.
Jack> Well done, T! So did I, LOL!
tiphereth> Hey Rumel & thanks!
tiphereth> So what are you two talking about?
rumel> Sailing in the uncharted waters of our consciousness.
tiphereth> Uncharted eh?
tiphereth> Sailing in the Abyss.
rumel> A totally engrossing voyage.
rumel> Abyss? perhaps but that hasnegative connotations to me.
Jack> In Western Tradition, yeah, but in Eastern Tradition it is the Fertile Void.
tiphereth> Well..
Jack> Google has some good links re: Fertile Void
Jack> Yes, a nice deep Well! ;)
rumel> In that case I am all for sailing into the Fertile Void!
tiphereth> It seems to me and I could be wrong: ) that the Abyss is the equivalent to what people call Hell
tiphereth> But Hell
tiphereth> Is this world.
tiphereth> Endless information and possibilities.
tiphereth> Therefore in magickal studies one intends to transcend the Abyss.
tiphereth> i was just relating it to your study of consciousness.
tiphereth> Since this is a description of the state of recurrence. Hell
rumel> The Fertile Void sounds very erotic to me, like a voyage into the womb.
Jack> A shamanic alternative to avoiding the Abyss is to dive in to the source of its power with all of the allies you need and return with that power. That's a recurrent theme in the development of shamans.
Jack> Very Good Point imho, rumel!
Jack> And for spelunkers!
tiphereth> Spelunkers?
tiphereth> What's that?
Jack> Cave divers.
Jack> Check out the November 2008 issue of National Geographic.
rumel> I get the image of myself as a sperm in the warmth environment of the vagina seeking my El Dorado.
Jack> The article is called Cavern of Crystal Giants page 64. STUNNING!
tiphereth> Hmm Havnt looked at that in a long time. But i always enjoyed it.
Jack> Here's a link to a blurb about the article: Cavern of Crystal Giants
tiphereth> Jack , Rumel what are your Zodiac signs?
rumel> Virgo
tiphereth> OMG that crystal Palace photo is unbelievable!!!
Jack> Taurus Sun, Pisces Moon in the Twelfth House... A Spelunker into the Cosmic Subconscious! :D
tiphereth> Haha. Somehow i knew you were a taurus.
Jack> Really? What led you to that?
Jack> And since we've both thrown down, what is your signage?
tiphereth> Lol. Libra.
tiphereth> Let's see..Moon Mars Jupiter in cancer..rising Sag
Jack> Well you sure used astute judgment in my instance! And of course in taking up learning the Multiple Orgasm Trigger™ ahem ahem. :D
tiphereth> Haha..well they say Taurus is the Zodiac's Adonis. Fitting for your choice of business.
Jack> Oh yeah my rising is Pisces/Aries cusp - the End and the Beginning... The Gate Opener.
Jack> LOL yep that'd be me all right. ;) Thanks!
tiphereth> Well there you have it.
tiphereth> AS for Virgo... )
tiphereth> You know your Moon sign Rumel?
tiphereth> Venus was in Virgo on my chart.
rumel> Nope.
tiphereth> hmm Bummer:( i like Virgo's though. )
tiphereth> Anyhow ..spotlight back to the Minotaur !
rumel> Well, I've got all their good qualities and none of their not so good qualities....NOT.
rumel> :)
tiphereth> = )
Jack> Hello again, Ageless, and a very warm welcome back to veteran Lava!
tiphereth> I forget what their bad qualties are suposed to be. Oh well.
rumel> I'm a human being with both positive and negative aspects to my personality.
rumel> Hi Ageless, Hi Lava
Jack> Sorry Libra Judge but I kinda choke on the label of bad qualities!
Ageless> Hi Jack -- just got back from a nice dinner date
tiphereth> Lol..the zodiac is more for fun. I dont put THAT much trust in it. )
Jack> No such thing!
Jack> imho.
Jack> Challenges perhaps... growth opportunities perhaps...
Jack> Except for Libras of course! LOL
Jack> Juuuust kidding... mmhmm.
tiphereth> WELL @@
tiphereth> = )
rumel> I'm a human being with both positive and challenging aspects to my personality.
tiphereth> There you go..
rumel> May we pass the talking stick to Ageless?
Ageless> Right on Rumel -- way to be.
Jack> Hey Lava I hope you enjoy listening to Dr Patti Taylors podcast interview of me - in fact I recommend that everyone gives it a listen.
Ageless> Rumel -- just about talked my way through a lot of stuff this morning. Notmuch to add
Jack> Hey rumel, very wonderful work you've done this evening. I hope it's food for thought and calm action. :)
rumel> Yes I read your posting and am very happy for your progress. Thanks Jack It has been helpful, letting go of the need to know the unknown beforehand.
rumel> I think Virgo's tend to do mind fucks to themselves.
rumel> :)
tiphereth> Nah.
Jack> Well just remember rumel, that if you're gonna do a m f use plenty of lube! ;)
rumel> :D
rumel> Good Advice Jack!
Jack> Hey you're VERY welcome, rumel, re: helping you relax and letting go of that need to know in advance. It's actually rather impossible to know this in advance. :)
Ageless> Question if I may. Have noted that for the last few days I have been waking up with an erection and the pelvic pleasure is fairly high. Is this an echo?
Jack> Besides, it makes the discovery that much more delightful to approach it with that Empty Cup - with Beginner's Mind.
Jack> Ageless, what's your hunch?
Ageless> My hunch is yes.
Jack> Yeah, mine too!
Jack> Not bad for Age 79, eh? What a great role model! :D
Ageless> This practice is producing more iand more nteresting reactions
Jack> Excellent!
tiphereth> Who is 79?
Ageless> Had ab echo this afternoon and just let it go deeper. Lots of pulsations and stomach shaking. Ended up feeling like a ran a marathon
rumel> Ageless, that is so encouraging to hear, wonderful.
Ageless> Hi Tiphereth -- me
Jack> Way to open to the Echoes, Ageless!
Lava> hey, guys... sorry... as soon as I got on here, I had to go tend to something. can only stay a sec, but wanted to say Hi.
Lava> hey, guys
tiphereth> Wow, I bet this knockes your socks off eh?
tiphereth> Hey Lava.
Ageless> Tiphereth -- who was that remark to?
Ageless> And Hi Lava
tiphereth> To you
Lava> I've missed the chats (and the messages coming to my email inbox), so I'm getting caught up on the new-fangled system. :-)
Jack> Hi Lava!!!
Jack> It's great to see you in the Chat once again! How've you been?
Lava> hey, jack!
Jack> RE: The new-fangled system, yeah let me know when you need help.
Lava> too long to go into, but getting better all the time. :-)
Jack> The vBulletin Forum software is powerful but VERY weak on usability or ease of use and I need LOTS of input on how to make it better.
Ageless> Thought so -- and yes, it is. Never knew so much pleasure was to be had. Problem is, it is becoming habitforming
Lava> feeling really good though... had health issues with the thyroid (discovered it is evil), but am working on overcoming it.
Jack> I plan to make some little training videos on how to use the various features, of which there are many.
Lava> pleasure habit-forming? sign me up!
rumel> Ageless, some habits are good for us!
Jack> Well I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying practice. By habit-forming, do you mean it's a good habit, or one that is getting in the way of other things in your life, in an adverse manner?
tiphereth> Ageless -- Yes indeed it is indeed.
Jack> Oh sorry I misread that it was you Lava who said habit forming, rather than Ageless.
Ageless> Ya -- I agree. This one for sure.
Ageless> In a great way. I love it
Jack> BTW, it's been a while since Lava's been in the Chat... how about everyone do a quick intro re: your age, orientation if you want, gender, how long practicing, how it's going, just so she'll have an idea.
Jack> All info is OPTIONAL of course, as always!
Laly> (hi all you lovely people (HUGS) )
Lava> hey, Laly!
tiphereth> Hello Laly!
Jack> Hi Laly!
Lava> And Happy Samhain to those who like to howl at the moon occassionally.
Laly> Hi Lava, I'm Laly- female, 37 yr olds= been practicing KSMO for 3!! glorious years
rumel> Hi Laly, Lava, I'm rumel, straight male, 61, been practicing for acouple of months now.
Jack> That'd be me, for sure, Lavahhh!
Laly> and experiencing multiple orgasmic session w/out KS
Lava> Thinking of the sugar-crash from last night...Jack, have you had posts/emails concerning diet and KSMO?
Lava> hey, rumel!
Ageless> Hi Laly -- I am 79, male,straight male, been doing the practice since June, and its going great. Way to go yet, but progress steady
tiphereth> Male 31 Yrs (666) KSMO for Several months now. and enjoying it thoroughly= )
Lava> I've been doing my own research into diet and the energy "field" of the food we eat, and I wondered if vegetarians do better with KSMO than carni/omnivores? (I'm pondering going mostly veg.)
Lava> hey, tiphereth
tiphereth> Hey Lava.
Laly> Lava -- it is possible . There is a book that is mentioned in zaneBlue's thread -- is called
tiphereth> Cool name BTW.
Laly> "The Orgasmic Diet"
Laly> the link to that thread - http://www.multiples.com/howtolastlo...iet-and-ksmo-2
Lava> ewww... not oysters, I hope. :-)
tiphereth> I can vouch for that it did boost my energies in that way.
Laly> :)
Jack> RE: Going vegan, I recommend Brendan Brazier's Book: The Thrive Diet - excellent yummy recipes. And for vegan treats there's a book called Simple Treats by Ellen Abraham - outrageously yummy!
Laly> K- I hate to leave -- but just got home from a 10 hour intensive workshop
Jack> Thanks for checking in, Laly! Have a great rest of weekend and I do mean REST as in RELAXATION. :)
Laly> thanks Jack-- HUGS
Ageless> By Laly -- thanks for stopping by
Jack> BTW, Lava, Zaneblue's book is VERY popular among KSMO regulars and she's been connected to KSMO since 2005.
Lava> cool.... I checked the thread Laly posted and it took me offsite to the author's forum.... I will check it out again fur shur.
Ageless> I found that if I eat a big piece of red meat in the evening, my energy level for skiing the nexr day goes way down. Its like a toxin. I suspect it would have a negative affect on sex also
Jack> It takes a LOT of energy to metabolize meat.
Lava> red meat is so acidic... going in and coming out... only eat it in actual prtions of 3-4 oz, if you aactually have to eat red meat (i.e., low iron).
tiphereth> Just eat fish: )
Lava> eat kale and spinach instead.... I've found the the aroma of steak cooking is much more appetizing than the taste or the action of chewing thru the meat... maybe my left-brain is too involved in the process now.
Ageless> Then that energy would be unavailable for sexual excitement also i would think
Jack> Ageless you might enjoy Brendan's book... he's a world-class triathelete and he's done it all on a vegan diet.
Lava> I'm very interested in energy work right now... lots of reading of Dr. Emoto, I use meditation CD's for groovy brain-wave states, and reading up on all things quantum --- it's all the rage, you know. The energy work of kundalini is actually how I came across KSMO.
tiphereth> I bet Lava is Libra. Or Leo
Lava> How the heck did you know that? (Libra)
tiphereth> You sound like me
tiphereth> No Jack I wasnt lying= )
Lava> Ha!
Jack> BTW, here's the link to the Thrive Diet
Ageless> Interesting thought -- Dr. Emoto's work explains why it is so important to love one's self. And KSMO certainly leads to loving one's self
Lava> Well... gotta scram... I love this chat thingie.... I will be back very soon.
Lava> Am I the only one who finds it interesting that Emoto's work deals with emotions and his name is "Emoto"?
tiphereth> It does seem suspicious. )
Ageless> Never made the connection -- interesting observation
Jack> Lava it's LOVELY to have you back in the chats! Feel free to contact me any time about help navigating the new forum.
Lava> Okay.... leaving... but I am very interested in the energy consciousness of KSMO, and more importantly the need to not do anything about the awareness of energy building, etc., which is antithetical to how we're normally taught...
Jack> I hope you'll get a Blog going, I can show you how. It will help me put together a training video script on how to teach people to do so.
Lava> you know, I've never blogged... willing to learn though.
Jack> Lava re: not doing anything, read this transcript from earlier when you get a chance! It's all about that when rumel and I were talking!
Jack> I'll teach you, girl! Just keep in touch, and be well!
Jack> Lava send me an email with Lava in the subject line.
rumel> "...willing to learn..." beautiful attitude
Lava> re: not doing anything --- correction: I didn't mean like acutally not doing anything, but rather the standard reactions to the energy levels.
Lava> okay... will do, jack.... all of you guys, stay safe and warm!
Jack> k: re not doing anything. We'll chat and blog further about that when you get a chance.
Jack> ttyl!
Jack> To everybody here... I'll soon be getting access to a very cool tool
tiphereth> Later Lava.
Jack> that will enable me to interview each of you one at a time as you take me through the main website
Jack> and this Forum and show me where you have trouble, how you'd like to see it improved, where you need help, etc.
Jack> This new tool will record our discussion AND your screen.
Jack> It's called UserVue by Techsmith.
Jack> If you're willing to work with me like that, please send me an email with UserVue in the subject line, and please associate
Jack> your username also in the subject line so I can keep track
Jack> I just recently took the Myers-Briggs Type Inventory and as I thought, I'm an ENFP so details are a real hassle for me, as you may have noticed! :o
rumel> Whoa, please explain.
tiphereth> what is ENFP?
rumel> What's the Myer-Briggs Type Inventory?
tiphereth> Endangered Non Friendly Person.
rumel> Enlightened Neurologically Flexible Personality?
tiphereth> Wow
tiphereth> That was good!
Jack> rumel, it's pretty long-winded, but here's a link: Myers-Briggs Type Inventory MBTI Information
Jack> Well, I HOPE I'm not Endangered!
Jack> In MBTI terms I'm ENFP.
tiphereth> Aww. Sory Jack :(
Jack> You can just Google MBTI ENFP for details.
Jack> Wikipedia has an entry too, but those editors imho are pretty anal retentive so they piss and moan about it. That's cuz they're ESTJ I think. LOL.
rumel> OK, you know Virgo brains just HAVE to know this stuff. :)
Ageless> Had any trouble sleeping Jack knowing you are a ENFP
Jack> Sure cuz my head is full of visions!
Jack> LOL rumel!
rumel> Hey for not knowing that label I gave is not half bad.
tiphereth> Speaking of sleep.
Jack> Here is ENFP
Ageless> WOW -- I am impressed Jack.
Jack> Yeah re: sleep I'm just about to the end of Hour 6 in the Chat Channel today. Is there anything else I might help anyone with before calling it a night?
Jack> Impressed with what, Ageless?
tiphereth> Good nite Jack , All!!
Ageless> What being an ENFP is all about.
Jack> Thanks... It can be a burden but for me it's definitely mostly a blessing, and sure fits my life history like a glove.
Ageless> Sleep well Tiphereeth
Jack> Sweet Dreams, Tiph! Thanks for all you brought to the discussions today!
Ageless> I think I will go to bed to. So long everyone
rumel> Good Night tiphereth, Good Night Ageless, Good Night Jack.
Jack> Sweet Dreams Ageless! Likewise many thanks to you!
Jack> Sweet Dreams rumel! You did great work today!
rumel> Thanks, maybe I'll take the test too, see what I am.
Jack> Is that it? Are we done for now?
Jack> Definitely rumel, it's very interesting!
Jack> ***** END of Multiple Orgasm Trigger™ Training and Discussion Chat hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA
Jack> This ChatBox remains open 24/7 for the use of the members of our community.
Jack> The Circle is Open Yet is Unbroken!
Kutso> Hello.
Jack> Hi Kutso! I'll be around more on Thursday and Friday...
Jack> Very Warm Welcome to our Newest Newbie: withnohandlebars!
Jack> Check out Tiphereth's Blog Report of using the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol to help him replace desire for smoking with Multiple Orgasms!
Session stop: Sat Nov 8 10:05:08 2008