Session start: Sat Oct 25 21:35:25 2008
Jack> Latest chat transcript is available here : Multiple Orgasm Trigger(tm) Discussion ChatBox Transcript of 20081024
Jack> Hey dlg1976, nice to see you using the Forum. It's loaded with info going back to 1997 about learning to use the Multiple Orgasm Trigger™ successfully. Click the Gold Nuggets link for loads of tips and Success Stories, and check this chat transcript of SEVEN Adepts and I discussing the experience with newbies!
Jack> Hey Kutso, I hope life is good for you!
Jack> ...and I hope you'll post an update to your blog for us. We're here to help, as always...
Jack> Kutso I just read your latest blog post and I'm VERY glad to hear about the great new results!
Jack> I'm particularly glad to hear how you're letting go of Chasing the Fawn and now the Fawn (i.e. the spontaneous Echo Effects™ are indeed flowing more strongly to you. CONGRATULATIONS!
Jack> Kutso, it IS really important to allow those spontaneous sounds whenever possible... These are the sounds your deeper self is wanting to make. Blocking them would be blocking your natural flow of orgasmic energy. Well done!
Jack> BTW Kutso, I've just made this post in the Comments section of your latest blog post as well. Have a great weekend!
rumel> General query : Is the cognitive act of looking for 'echo effects' an 'echo effect' itself?
Jack> Actually rumel... actively looking for or seeking awareness of Echo Effects™ is most often a cognitive trap.
Jack> If you're mind is concentrating on asking yourself: Where are they? You're probably already somewhat distracted from just tuning in to relaxing and articulating the Key Sound™ correctly during your practice.
Jack> The most successful rule of thumb seems to be: Let the Echo Effects™ find you.
Jack> If you're in a pattern of asking yourself: Was THAT it? Was THAT strong enough? I wonder if I should post about that. Is THIS what they're talking about? etc., then in effect, you're probably at least one step removed from being completely IN the process that ALLOWS this deeper response system to awaken. To me this pattern seems to be an example of what we call Chasing the Fawn, rather than letting it come to you.
Jack> Basically, I'd recommend that during the 20 minute sessions, you just concentrate on articulating the Key Sound™ correctly (be sure to have it Validated by me personally to make sure), and relaxing, and just enjoying whatever little feeling might happen during the single erotic caress or touch during each cycle.
Jack> Then after 20 minutes, don't evaluate, just go on and do something else. Why? Because the stronger Echo Effects™ tend to happen when you LEAST expect them or are actively looking for them. As weird as it may seem, rumel, that's generally been the historic pattern.
Jack> Hi Mog!
Jack> :D
Jack> Rumel I just posted a reply to your latest post. I DO agree with you!
Jack> Here's a cool post from KSMO Adept Pan from back in 2003 regarding sharing KSMO as a couple: http://tinyurl.com/orgasm-couples-00001-Pan
Jack> Hey roderik! Nice to see you in the Forum! I hope you'll blog or post in the Forum so we can know how you're doing...
Jack> This just in... representatives from both US Presidential Candidates' Campaigns finally agree on how the election will be decided. Click Here
Laly> hi zooyork-just posted a reply to your thread
Jack> Me too! :D
tiphereth> Thats an awesome link Jack !
Jack> Thanks Tiphereth!
Jack> ***** Welcome to the Multiple Orgasm Trigger™ Training and Discussion Chat hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA
artform> Hello? Hello?
Jack> Hello Hello!
Jack> How are you today?
artform> How's by you?
artform> Great thanks! That rotating lady link is great too!
Jack> Well thanks. Did you have a fun Halloween?
Jack> Oh I'm glad you like it. Isn't it amazing?
artform> I was leading here in dance within about a minute and a half....
artform> Leading her...
artform> mrs. a saw clockwise (right brain) at first which didn't surprise me (I'd seen counter-clockwise - left brain - first)
Jack> Yeah likewise for me and Jackie. She's the artist / painter, I host a website.
artform> mrs. a soon was seeing the opposite and she was able to control the switching too within a few minutes.
artform> I'm not surprised re you and Jackie.
artform> Are you getting more settled on citizenship?
artform> Back to the rotating lady for a moment...
Jack> For the benefit of other Chat readers: Here's the Yale Turning Woman Brain Hemisphere Dominance Exercise
Jack> Getting more settled in Canada, yes thanks... Little by little. Yes back to the rotating lady.
artform> the strangest thing for me was when I was briefly getting the reflection of her feet at the bottom rotating opposite her feet, very briefly!
artform> Have just been called away, but will brb. Thanks.
Jack> Hi Tiphereth!
tiphereth> Hey Jack !
tiphereth> How you doin?
Jack> Doing well, thanks! How are you today?
tiphereth> Rather well , thank you =)
Jack> Excellent!
Jack> How goes your KSMO practice?
artform> Hi again Jack and tiphereth too!
Jack> Welcome back, artform!
tiphereth> Had a realy cool session yesterday. Hey Artform
tiphereth> One of those that sets a new standard I would say for me.
Jack> Excellent news, Tiph! Tell us about it, please!
Jack> In what ways setting a new standard?
tiphereth> Ok well, I think it was due to the fact that I waited until my housmates went to work. I felt much more ..safe I guess being alone while I practised.
Jack> That definitely can make a difference!
Jack> BTW, what is your age, just so people will have an idea.
tiphereth> I was able to connect more with certain sensations as well.
tiphereth> I'm 31 years old . )
Jack> Such as?
Jack> (thanks, re: age)
Jack> What sensations are you noticing now, that you hadn't before?
tiphereth> Well there was this light feeling of touch or tugging in my groin that I "Let" do what it wanted.
tiphereth> And an overall feeling of energy moving through my body.
tiphereth> Like a heat flash
tiphereth> Iv felt something like this before but not this strong.
Jack> As long as the tugging was not uncomfortable, the ALLOWING of it is a very good decision.
Jack> THAT'S REALLY GREAT NEWS!
tiphereth> Oh it was not uncomfortable.
tiphereth> =)
Jack> Sounds to me like your practice is really beginning to awaken that deeper Echo Effects™ response!
Jack> What do you think, artform?
artform> Agree! Was this with or without an erection?
tiphereth> ummm think I was partially. Just a little.
artform> Good.
tiphereth> Iv noticed i dont get soo hard anymore and i think it feels better that way.
artform> How would describe the speed of the energy moving through your body and what is left in its wake?
tiphereth> Its sort of like the feeling og soaking in a hot bath. It moves quickly.
Jack> I really like that description of soaking in the energy. That's a really great way to enjoy it!
tiphereth> Leaves you feeling magnetized ...invigorated and realxed all at once.
tiphereth> Oh yeah
artform> It is wonderful isn't it?:)
Jack> Also it's noteworthy how relaxed you seemed to be... not Chasing the Fawn - that is, not trying to make anything happen... Just ALLOWING yourself to enjoy the sensations with an openness to discovering what may happen next. That is the ZONE!
tiphereth> I should add ..after this session I felt EXTREMELY satisfied. Alot of times I ejaculate at the end but I didnt need it.
artform> Yes!
tiphereth> Yeah I think being alone helped me to realx a great deal better !
Jack> That is also VERY noteworthy, Tiphereth!
tiphereth> Relax that is.
artform> Agree Jack! This is the Zone...ahhh...!
tiphereth> Lol
tiphereth> It was soo agreeable.
Jack> Sweet!
Jack> Sounds like the benefits of the practice lasted for a while after the session.
tiphereth> Oh yeah definitely..
tiphereth> Like..
artform> Hi Ageless!
tiphereth> Since I have been practising my health has greatly improved. My posture , nerves, energy levels.
Ageless> Hi Artform
Jack> ( Welcome Ageless! Catch up on the transcript, as Tiphereth is reporting some great new openings to the Echo Effects™! )
Ageless> And Jack and tiphereth
Ageless> Will do
Jack> How have your health and nerves improved?
Jack> < was to Tiph
artform> Tiph, that is great to hear! I too find significant general health benefits from these energy effects!
tiphereth> The reposturing seems to realy be helping.
tiphereth> I realy wish i could show you some pics of me before and after so far . it realy ..almost scary!
Jack> Yeah that makes sense re: reposturing... helps your energy channels re-align so the energy can flow more freely.
Jack> LOL, tiph!
Jack> I can really feel a major shift in your emotional energy!
tiphereth> I looked like Death warmed over .
Jack> Much LIGHTER and optimistic - very positive!
tiphereth> Haha thanks.
Jack> Are other people noticing any changes in you?
tiphereth> Im sure they do, but i dont talk about it. I just go on.
tiphereth> I tried to introduce a couple friends to it but its hard to get people to understand
Jack> Sure... I just was wondering if anyone had noticed on their own.
Jack> RE: getting others to understand... tell ME about THAT!!! LOL. :)
tiphereth> Thats a BIG can of worms there: )
Jack> It really takes a special kind of openness to approach this practice,
artform> Yes, we talk about this with Aneros as well.
Jack> even for people who've been involved in tantra or other practices, in some instances... That's particular cognitive challenge is what Milton H. Erickson used to refer to as learned limitations.
tiphereth> Learned Limitations eh?
Jack> Yeah. Like our culture leads us to expect our sexual response to be of a particular form,
tiphereth> Respect?
artform> Many cultures, our as much as most are wracked with learned limitations.
tiphereth> Oh.
Jack> and many people have a very very hard time becoming open to the POSSIBILITY that things can be different.
artform> Otherwise peace might spontaneously break out and we would all be filled with orgasmic energetics and bliss!
Jack> LOL, artform... Yeah, any day now! :)
tiphereth> Lol
tiphereth> In our dreams.
Jack> Welcome, dlg1976!
tiphereth> Wich we project into reality.
tiphereth> brb
artform> Hi dig1976!
Ageless> Hi Dig1976
Jack> dlg1976, you can catch up on our discussion so far today by clicking THIS LINK to the ChatBox Archives
Jack> Meanwhile though, dlg1976, feel free to join right in on our discussion.
Jack> Tiphereth was just describing some new openings to greater positive sensations through his practice, and the number of ways it's been benefiting him.
artform> The learned limitations can contribute to the infantilization of individuals and cultures. The key thing to watch seems to be staying childlike in openess and generativity, while avoiding childishness and self-absorption.
Jack> It's one of the most challenging aspects of this practice, is that people believe IN FRONT, that it just CAN'T be possible, so they don't even bother to investigate it!
Jack> I also think though that when someone has that attitude, it may mask a certain fear of the unknown or even a subconscious reluctance because there ARE emotional furballs - that is, unresolved emotional traumas - that will need to be resolved in order to truly open to their full multiorgasmic potential.
Jack> That's why I say that often the greater challenge in learning this lifelong skill is not between the legs, it's between the ears!
artform> Also: Learned Limitations = Pseudo Wisdom, which is an emotion laden state.
Jack> And... in the heart... Because I'd say that to one degree or another, nearly EVERYone has been emotionally wounded or in some way frightened by sexuality and sexual energy. Crypto-fascists build entire social movements on that fear - but don't get me started on THAT rant! :D
tiphereth> Interesting..that the practise helps to heal the psyche
Jack> Yeah, I agree artform, that emotion laden state is what I mean at least in part by coining the term emotional furballs.
Jack> Oh most definitely, Tiphereth!
Jack> I think that is necessarily true in most instances.
artform> Oh go for it Jack (sometime...)!:D
Jack> As the healthy erotic energy awakens and starts coursing through our body from head to toe and back, it encounters the places in our body where we've stored unresolved emotional wounds.
Jack> That crisis - with the right attitude - becomes a healing crisis - that is - an opportunity to heal and grow...
tiphereth> Furballs.
artform> and physical ones that soak up their own related emotions and many other emotional ones too.
Jack> Yes, Tiph, the phenomenon I labeled colloquially as emotional furballs. As that wound is then resolved at long last
tiphereth> I want to ask you one more questio today Jack.
Jack> then another energy gateway opens, and the multiorgasmic energy is able once again to flow.
Jack> Sure, Tiphereth! And
Jack> if you have another, after that, feel free to ask it after we've given the others a chance at the Talking Stick!
Jack> I also want to give Newbie dlg1976 a chance to say hi and get to know us all better, and get questions answered. So please, go ahead and ask your question, Tiphereth! :)
Jack> We'll make sure everyone gets a chance to hold the Talking Stick, that is to have a chance to speak and get their questions answered or simply to share their current experience with the Practice.
tiphereth> You know the bone in the roof of your mouth that divides the two sides? (Yeah i know weird qyes)
tiphereth> Feels like alot of pressure there much of the time.
Jack> Not exactly sure!
Jack> Near the front of your mouth just posterior to your teeth, or where?
tiphereth> WEll..
tiphereth> I mean..
tiphereth> Lol. never mind its silly.
Jack> Aw c'mon! You got me curious now. What a TEASE! :D
tiphereth> Its just that the energy unleashed through KS seems to make this area feels bruised. And im thinking it cuz the archway never expanded like it should and from what iv read that bone can expand once it fuses. So
artform> I'm wondering if this could actually be just above the palate and nasal passage in the pineal gland and surrounding tissues?
tiphereth> I mean "CAn't" expand.
tiphereth> Yow know i forgot about that thing.
tiphereth> I guess it is possible Artform !
Jack> Is the pressure something that you began after you began KSMO practice, or have you felt it all along?
tiphereth> Anyway. I was just curious if it was a common ailment.
Jack> i.e., before you learned KSMO practice?
Jack> I've never heard of it before but maybe someone else here has.
artform> That area can be highly sensitive to these energetic flows.
tiphereth> I believe its been ther since i was about 17. I think the arch just fused too soon and too narrowly. and KSMO is trying to push energy through
artform> Do you have any breathing or nasal/sinus problems?
artform> My wife, mrs. a has very narrow nasal passages and some resulting problems there.
tiphereth> Claratin!!
tiphereth> Lol. Sory this far off subject Jack.
tiphereth> Im through now= )
artform> Between mrs. a and our younger son, we are a Claratin family!
tiphereth> I never take the stuff though..cant stand being dependant on a drug.
tiphereth> But it does work!!
artform> All the best Tiph.
tiphereth> Thanks now.
artform> re: minimize drug reliance; me too.
Ageless> Thanks for sharing Tiph
tiphereth> I pass the stick to Jack. Here Jack!
Jack> LOL, thanks!
Jack> And again CONGRATULATIONS Tiphereth on these new awakenings and the good feelings and other positive changes that are happening for you!
Jack> dlg1976, would you be willing to say Hi and introduce yourself a little bit?
Jack> If not, that's fine... Ageless and artform, how is your time schedule? Which of you would like the Talking Stick next?
Ageless> Go ahead artform
Jack> ( Meanwhile, Tiphereth, I hope you'll update your blog! ;) )
Jack> artform, looks like you have the Talking Stick, Brother!
Ageless> I will probably sign on again this evening. I would like to share a couple of things now.
Jack> Sure Ageless! Is that ok with you, artform?
Ageless> I'll go ahead. On the negative side, I have developed a tendonitus issue in my left arm. I think it may be do to the awakening of my left side.
Ageless> My whole left side is tense.
Jack> Are you getting professional assistance with it?
artform> Yes, please go ahead Ageless.
Ageless> Yes. So far, just exercize.
Jack> When did it first begin?
Ageless> About two weeks ago.
Jack> Is that when you first noticed the tension in your entire left side?
Ageless> Dr. says its not rotor cup. And yes, the first time
Jack> If there were an emotional issue associated with it, what would it likely be about?
Ageless> It may have started whren I started seeing a sex therapist. Damn, was my family fucked up sexually
Ageless> Went to my first Sexual recovery group this morning
Jack> Brave Soul!
Jack> Congratulations!
Ageless> What I don't know and what I believe incorrectly is amazing
Jack> Such as?
Ageless> Such as my erection might be a turn on to some women. And that its OK to be seen with an erection.
Ageless> Hell, I don't even know how to date someone sexually
Ageless> Just have to trust my instincts and get over the idea that sex is not OK
Ageless> Change that -- that sex is OK
Ageless> That they might want it too.
Jack> Yeah. You can ask, in an appropriate context, of course!
Ageless> Hell, I had trouble saying the word erection at the group this morning
Jack> Doing so is a good beginning though.
Ageless> Ask -- that is a no no. Its not proper to "ask" or mention
Jack> What's your preference at this point? To berate yourself about the trouble you had saying the word, or giving yourself credit for having the guts to do so?
Jack> Not sure what you mean by asking is a no-no. Who says?
Ageless> The latter
artform> The younger generations that have come of age with the Pill just naturally there cannot understand what it was like for those of us who came of age before that.
Ageless> One doesn't ask anyone about sex or sexual desires. My old training and family beliefs.
Ageless> Artform, I like the younger generations way of thinking and doing.
Jack> When do you think you might be ready to start describing that in the past tense rather than the present tense?
Ageless> I am going to adopt it.
Jack> < was to Ageless.
Jack> When do you think that might be?
Ageless> OK -- I am adopting the younger generation's way of being. I like it.
artform> Agree Ageless. Your courage on this is admirable and essential.
Ageless> I am going to ask for what I want.
Ageless> Lets go to the positive things that are happening.
Jack> How about a rewrite of this statement: One doesn't ask anyone about sex or sexual desires.
Jack> Expressed in a tense that is more congruent with how you feel now?
artform> We each need to find our own path into more natural openess and all its subteties and sensitivity.
Ageless> Flew own to Chicago last week. Had at least 5 great echos on the way
Jack> Cool!
Ageless> And Jack, I now feel its OK to talk about sex with a woman and will do so.
Jack> Welcome to the KSMO version of the MILE HIGH CLUB!
Jack> :D
Ageless> One does ask.
Ageless> :)
Jack> Hey that's really great Ageless! What a great gift to give to yourself!
artform> Hurrah Ageless!
Ageless> And my KSMO's just keep getting better. My body is opening up bit by bit. Am now aware of my stomach muscles and how they contract. Am also aware of anal muscles rythmly contraction.
Jack> That all sounds GREAT Ageless!
artform> More of the orchestra tuning up to join in the growing symphony!
Ageless> Like I was using an Aneros
Jack> LOL artform, well said!
Ageless> I sense I am building to having a dry ejaculation reflex
Ageless> And I am having more and more brief periods when I am really feeling pleasure in other parts of my body.
Jack> Ageless, re: sensations similar to those using an Aneros but without using the Aneros: pretty nice to get there without the training wheels, eh! ;)
Ageless> No energy waves yet up the spine but I sense they to are coming as genital and pelvic energy builds
Jack> Yep, stay tuned!
Ageless> Question -- are those contraction and similar ones that seem to be minor ejaculation contractions stimulating the prostate?
Ageless> Feels like they might be.
artform> Your prostate may be stimulating them, and they can stimulate it.
artform> Talk about positive feedback loop! Once they all get practiced at this.
Ageless> WOW:):):D
Jack> :)
artform> Does your Key Sound resonate with your prostate? Can you feel it vibrate there?
Jack> Whew GREAT share, Ageless. You're really on a roll!
Ageless> No
Jack> I would classify that as a not yet.
Jack> ;)
Ageless> As for being on a roll, all I can say is that whatever is happening feels GREAT
artform> I don't want to make this a challenge or anything, but try varying your pitch and see if you find a frequency that does vibrate your prostate. That puts you right there into the loop and triggering!
Jack> Sounds pretty good to ME! Way to GROW!
Jack> < was to Ageless.
artform> Congratulations Ageless! It is so good to hear of this working so well for you!
Jack> Shall we pass the Talking Stick to artform, Ageless?
Ageless> THe keysound seems to work better if it is more gutteral and is done in conjunction with fully breathing out.
Ageless> Yes -- I am through for now. Go ahead artform
artform> More gutteral is more likely to find prostate resonance!
tiphereth> Updated Jack...How do I get to my buddy list Jack?
artform> Thanks!
artform> Go ahead Tiph.
tiphereth> Oh I was just asking how to get to ones buddy list on here: )
Jack> Tiph do you mean what's called the Friends list in this Forum?
tiphereth> I guess so . Someone sent me a request but i couldnt figure how to get there other than the link+ )
Jack> For that you just click on your name wherever it's a link (cursor changes to a hand when you mouseover) and it will take you to your profile area.
Jack> If someone sent you a request in an email you click THAT link if there is one, to accept them to your list.
artform> Slowly, I am working on separating the aneros and KSMO aspects of my practice, which really took off when I experimented with mixing them completely.
Jack> Slowly's a good way to do it.
artform> I have found that I have not been placing my Key Sound quite right in my breathing, although it has been quite effective even so. Gradually fine-tuning and retraining to change these now "old habits"...
Ageless> Why do you want to separate them if things really took off when mixing them
artform> ...and following the recurrent mitochondrial echo effects, which like the fawn becoming a friend and then a herd, seem to ramp up regularly now!
Jack> RE: placing the Key Sound™ vis a vis breathing. That's really easy if you just do the Key Sound immediately following any touch or caress, or immediately following a contraction on the Aneros - that is,
Jack> immediately following any stimulative action. THAT is the moment
Jack> where your inhale is AUTOMATIC - autonomic - and thus it is a CHARGING breath.
Jack> If you use the Key Sound™ to exhale that autonomic charging breath, you tend to get maximum benefit.
Jack> Not a rule, just a suggestion. But I designed the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol™ specifically with that in mind -
Jack> to take advantage of the energy that is built up in that automatic inhale that pretty much inevitably happens in response to any stimulation, even the slightest caress or sexual thought, even.
artform> Ageless, my practice has focused on our mutual prostate explorations with mrs. a. And I wouldn't change that for anything, the advances have been so amazing and pacific!...
artform> but I am curious about adding more (there has always been some) solo development beyond acquiring and refining the basic techniques, which have then taken me off everywhere on their own!!!
Ageless> I admire you and your attitude artform. Keep going for it more and more and more. You are a great role model
Jack> :)
artform> Thanks Jack. What was happening is that my body wanted to inhale during the caress and key sound during the caress. I am getting there with the separation now.
artform> *was that*
Jack> Are you saying
Jack> that you wanted to do a Key Sound while INhaling?
Jack> The wanting to inhale during the caress is the automatic autonomic inhale to which I am referring. :)
Jack> At some point you're going to want or need to exhale that breath. That can be the optimum time to use the Key Sound™
artform> Ageless it is Jack, this community and members like you that make this experience so rich and encouraging to explore ever further! Thanks.
Jack> Or at least AN optimum time, rather than THE optimum time. :)
Ageless> Thanks artform. Jack, question -- Do you make the keysound during all the exhale
Jack> Hi rumel! Is there any chance you can make the chat that starts at 7pm PDT / 0200 GMT? I'm at the end of a 3-hour run of hosting this chat and need to take a refresher break before the next chat. Meanwhile everyone is of course VERY welcome to continue chatting!
Jack> Ageless, no there is no forcing of anything,
Jack> you just make the Key Sound™ as you exhale and when the sound is done, it's done. You don't have to artificially stretch it out if you still have more breath to exhale.
rumel> I will try to make it back for the evening chat, could you tell me how to get access to the earlier portion of this Chat?
Jack> Nothing should be forced, as that makes it artificial, and the forcing can introduce tension, where relaxation is typically the path to allowing the arousal to build at its own pace.
Ageless> Jack, its been a great and educational chat. Thanks for being here for us.
Jack> rumel re: the previous portion of this chat, you can click the Expand Chatbox to Full Page button and scroll down,
Jack> and for more than that you can click the [Archives] link that is at the top right of this ChatBox.
Jack> Do you see the Archives link, rumel?
Jack> You're very welcome, Ageless!
rumel> yes
rumel> The scroll down doesn't get me to the beginning.
Jack> Like I said, when you get to the bottom of the scroll down, then you click
Jack> the Archives link and it will take you to the temporary Archive where all other pages are located,
Jack> until the Archive gets automatically moved to the ChatBox sub-forum, which happens at
Jack> about 2300 GMT every Saturday.
rumel> OK, I think I've got it now, thanks.
Jack> You're welcome!
Jack> Ok, guys, I'm going to excuse myself until 0200 GMT, 7pm PDT. Thanks to each of you for being here and for sharing ALL that you do! With warmest and best regards, respect, and gratitude to each of you! - Jack
artform> Sorry guys. Got cut off by ISP link problem!
artform> See you all soon.
Ageless> Time for me to go to. Lunch was three hours ago. Thanks everyone for your support and suggestions.
tiphereth> Meh~
Session stop: Sat Nov 1 22:01:32 2008