Session start: Sat Oct 18 21:22:11 2008
Jack> Latest chat transcript is available here : Multiple Orgasm Trigger(tm) Discussion ChatBox Transcript of 20081017
Laly> Hi zooyork
tiphereth> ...
tiphereth> .
Laly> wbb tiphereth
tiphereth> wbb?
Laly> sorry - hit b key 2 times
Laly> wb :)
tiphereth> lol i dont know what that means either?
tiphereth> oh is it welcome back?
Laly> welcome back
Laly> yes
tiphereth> I was trying to decide on a color to use earlier.
tiphereth> but it wont stick
Laly> would you like some help on how to keep it one way -- color wise?
tiphereth> Sure
tiphereth> or ratther . please !
Laly> ok-- see the quick links on the the top of the screen
Laly> next to google site search link
Laly> click that lil down facing arrow
tiphereth> yes
Laly> got it?
Laly> k-- under user control options -- there is link that says edit options
tiphereth> very handy i didnt realze
Laly> click that
Laly> scroll all the way to the bottom of that editing screen
Laly> to this-- Chatbox options : Formatting options
Laly> can choose size, font type and even color-- and then click the save button
tiphereth> Got it now.
Laly> good
tiphereth> Thank you Laly !
Laly> you are very welcome
Laly> I am waiting for the next chat to start
Laly> reading rumel's newest blog post while i wait
tiphereth> Still a litle while till Jack returns..
Laly> yeah
Laly> about 1 hour 5 min
Laly> i think i will take a brief nap before chat starts
Laly> hope to see you there :)
tiphereth> Dont forget to set an alarm . )
Laly> i plan to thanks
tiphereth> dlg1976..is that the year you were born in?
tiphereth> I was 1977.
tiphereth> Rumel =)
rumel> Hi tiphereth, could I ask a small favor? Could you please make the color of your text a darker shade? I am a little bit color blind and there is just not enough contrast for me to read your text easily.
Jack> ***** Welcome to the Multiple Orgasm Trigger™ Training and Discussion Chat of 20081019 hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA
rumel> OK that magenta is better, thanks.
Jack> Thanks rumel, I was about to make the same request. :)
tiphereth> Oh I thought you meant the magenta...
tiphereth> I was gonna say what?!
Jack> Ah mo' betta. Thanks tiph!
tiphereth> =)
rumel> The light green was really hard on my vision.
tiphereth> Yeah...it was unexpected.
rumel> Hi Jack, Hi tiphereth, Hi ZooYork, Hi Buster!
Jack> Hi rumel and All!
Buster> Hi Everyone!
rumel> Hi Laly, glad you liked my update.
tiphereth> So did you get a nice rest Jack?
Laly> you are very welcome rumel.
Jack> ZooYork, your Key Sound™ articulation is fine. Thanks for posting the sample.
Jack> Yes, I did, thank tiph. Been running a little short of sleep since Landing Officially in Canada. There's a fair amount of to-do's to get my wife and I, our car, etc. all to have our papers in order.
Jack> Squeezed in time for a nice walk with my lady though, to a park nearby, before conking out for a coupla hours.
tiphereth> That sounds nice.
Jack> Who'd like to go first or has a comment re: today's earlier chat?
Laly> i would
Laly> if no one else minds
Buster> Go for it Laly!
rumel> OK by me.
tiphereth> I do have questions for you later ..Jack.
Jack> Ok tiph, noted. We'll be sure to get to you.
Jack> I do believe you have the Talking Stick, Mademoiselle Laly.
Laly> thanks...not an easy thing I am about to share with you aqll
Laly> all
Laly> i feel i have lost myself -- completely
Jack> What do you mean?
Laly> that I am/have stepped "beyond" ksmo and on a new journey.
rumel> OK, perhaps lost is another word for uncharted teritory?
tiphereth> Coronzon.
Laly> totally uncharted territory rumel--scary for me.
rumel> What is the territory? Is the fear just of the unknown?
Laly> fear/worry is that am leaving sex/orgasms - pleasure behind
Laly> and entering a higher- spiritual world
Buster> Why would you think you were leaving sexual pleasure behind?
Laly> a shedding of my former self-- to put into easier terms to understand.
Laly> Buster-i have lost all interest with anything to do with sex.
Buster> Have you lost interest in KSMO?
tiphereth> But will That fear mot create the barrier that keeps you from experiencing pleasure?
tiphereth> Maybe you are just very satisfied= ) Im going through that stage now.
rumel> I do know the fear of the death of an ego consciousness, the very real angst of the rebuilding.
Laly> to be honest - no, in fact it is allowing me to slow down-- take/make my journey at my pace
rumel> Normal pleasures are suspended while metamophosis takes place.
Laly> exactly rumel :) .
rumel> A chrysalis may look dead but the butterfly will emerge.
Laly> I am beginning to see the world-- not from the view of the frightened child- but as a courageous woman,
Jack> Nice on, rumel! You guys are being great!
rumel> YEAH!!!!!!!
Jack> hard-earned!
Jack> ...and well-deserved, Laly!
rumel> Your spirit guide is at your heart, that is woderful!
Laly> thanks
Buster> That sounds like a wonderful transformation that you are having Laly. So you lose interest in sex and orgasms for a while.....who cares? It sounds like it will be better for you in the long run.
rumel> Agreed Buster.
Laly> buster, at first it scared the heck out of me
Buster> Change is scary. I have learned that is something that I could be better at as well.
Laly> until I began lucid dreaming- and being shown a new path.
Buster> Cool!
rumel> The real beauty of this is YOU are leading YOU!
Laly> *begins to cry
Laly> thanks rumel.
rumel> Here's a BIG H-U-G!
tiphereth> :)
Laly> man-- am shaking so bad right now :).
Buster> But you are still typin'
Laly> trembling buster
Laly> heart energy is wide open, shining bright.
Jack> What if you were hearing some of your favorite energizing music right now?
Laly> *lays talking stick down
Buster> So what kinds of things do you see differently as a courageous women?
Jack> As you're shaking continues
Laly> jack-- honestly-- i'd orgasm :)
Buster> maybe that is too much for now, sorry.
Buster> I want some of that!
Jack> How would that affect the shaking, Laly?
rumel> I think trembling is orgasm on a different level when it is instigated by self acknowledgement.
Laly> am seeing blues, green, and yellows
Buster> ..or is it, "I'll have what she's having"
rumel> Yes, Buster I want a plate of that too.
tiphereth> The trembling should be clearing paths right? Extennding the flow.
Laly> depending on which track jack-- it'd calm the energies
Jack> I'm reminded of that line from the Beatles' song that said: She comes in colors... She's like a rainbow...
Laly> i mean a heart-gasm guys- not genital ones== re: orgasm
rumel> Yes heartgasm for sure.
Jack> RE: colors -- Synesthesia
Laly> mmm- better
Laly> am laughing very hard now
Laly> tip-- i believe you had a few questions for jack?
tiphereth> I do.
Laly> go ahead :)
tiphereth> But are you alright?
Buster> She went from tears to heargasms to laughter. We should all be doing as good, eh Laly?
rumel> Laly- Thanks for sharing the big step you just took in your mind.
tiphereth> Alright then..
Laly> <is blushing...thanks buster
Laly> and thank you rumel
tiphereth> Jack will you be the Shaman for me tonight?
Laly> yes tip-- i am very okay :)
Jack> How may I be of service, Tiphereth?
tiphereth> I was talking about fear earlier.
tiphereth> I understand fear...just a barrier. Some to respect some to be broken.
Jack> Sometimes a doorway.
tiphereth> In this case I am hoping.
Jack> Sometimes the Key Sound™ unlocks that door. :)
tiphereth> I believe you. But this fear is keeping me from that door.
Jack> One of my best teachers, Robert Goulding MD liked to say that sometimes anxiety is excitement I haven't let myself feel just yet. i think he got it from Fritz Perls MD, who trained him.
tiphereth> I'd say he was right!
Jack> How so?
tiphereth> That might answere my question already.
Buster> I am going to write that one down - re:anxiety is excitement........
rumel> tiphereth, what is "this fear"?
Jack> don't forget the second part, Buster! ;)
tiphereth> Well...
Jack> ...following up on rumel's question: ... and what is the excitement? :D
tiphereth> Here goes..Laly if you thought you were going out on a limb . )
tiphereth> When I was very young I had a VERY frightening experience.
Jack> Tiph, sometimes that's where the ripest fruit is.
Jack> Out on that limb, that is.
Buster> I know Jack, I was too lazy to type it and my copy and paste is on the fritz.
Laly> (am here with you tipereth)
Jack> How old Tiph?
Jack> [ just checkin' Buster! :) ]
tiphereth> I believe 4-5
Jack> Pretty young, Tiph. Are you ok re: talking about it?
Jack> Like Laly says, we're here for you.
tiphereth> Oh yes Im fine. I was hoping you might lead.
Laly> only can guide you tip-- not lead
tiphereth> Well this is what happened.
Jack> Take your time, remember to breathe.
Jack> And remember that feeling is healing.
Jack> So is giving voice to it.
tiphereth> I was lying in my bed across the room from my Father and i happened to glance color out this realy huge window that was in the room and saw this realy horrible thing.
Jack> Giving voice to that 5 year old.
tiphereth> I wasnt scared at first.
tiphereth> I just saw red light.
tiphereth> And then i realized it was eyes and That is where I realized it was a face.
tiphereth> Then I became terriified.
tiphereth> And I watched its eyes like fire burning in them and it grinned at me.
tiphereth> Its hair was white and pale skin.
Buster> That would spook me now!
tiphereth> I fear something that I do not understand
Laly> me too
tiphereth> I feel this things presence at times.
tiphereth> Or perhaps the memory is still so strong
rumel> Did you find out what the face was?
tiphereth> I have never slept well since then.
tiphereth> No.
Jack> Back when you were 4 or 5 and you first saw this, what happened then after you noticed the white hair and pale skin?
rumel> Did you ever discuss it with your parents?
tiphereth> Thats when i bacame terrified and i pulled the cover over my head as i slowly and TENSLY looked away.
Jack> How long before you looked through that window again?
Jack> Did you ever?
tiphereth> I dont remember anything after that just a seocnd or two of waiting
tiphereth> I tried not sleep in there ever again
tiphereth> I looked out it when i bacame older but it always felt like the time it happened
tiphereth> Like walking into a dream
Jack> Did you ever see it again?
tiphereth> Not that I am aware of. But i see other things.
tiphereth> but they dont scare me as much
Jack> Through the window, or elsewhere?
tiphereth> Elsewhere.
Jack> Like where for example?
tiphereth> I bet you guys think this is the Haloween special?
rumel> What other things?
tiphereth> MONSTER ORGASMS
tiphereth> Like..
tiphereth> Shadows..Jellyfish..ovals with thorns abstract things
Jack> I think it's very cool that you give us the gift of your trust in sharing this.
rumel> No I don't, Baba Ram Dass spoke of such things in his book "Eye of the Hurricain"
Buster> Nope Tip, I am behind you 100%. That stuff that happens when we were kids is pretty strong.
Laly> i agree w. jack
tiphereth> On a side note I'v seen a sliver metal disc
tiphereth> I love sharing it.I always hope to understand it.
Buster> I have too.
tiphereth> Im just careful to who I say..cuz I dont want to get locked up
tiphereth> But anyway..I realize this is becomming off topic..I just wanted to hear your thoughts Jack..and everyone.
Buster> So Tip, you think this fear is stopping you from making some kind of breakthrough with KSMO?
rumel> THis is a fur ball for you so it is not off topic.
tiphereth> It affects me in different ways but always strongly.
tiphereth> Like...I catch myself not breathing alot
tiphereth> OMG I held my breath that night!
rumel> It is an unresolved mystery that you are seeking resolution for.
tiphereth> I just remembered.
tiphereth> When I got under the covers .and passed out.
Laly> tip-- not sure about others here-- I can relate very much to what you
Laly> are describing.
Buster> I think the more stuff you remember about that night the better it will be for you.
Buster> Keep talking about it. Get it figured out.
rumel> Your conscious mind wants help to resolve this night terror.
Jack> I agree, rumel.
tiphereth> now I dont know how to analize it any differently.
rumel> Your subconscious want to resolve it too.
tiphereth> I dont doubt it..
tiphereth> Its a very hard furball as you say.
rumel> Why do you doubt it wants resolution?
Jack> Yeah, no kidding! Would you please email me about this?
Laly> i agree with that feeling tip-- if i may say something?
tiphereth> I get the impression that ther is something that I SHOULD know but Im clueless.
Jack> rumel, he said he didn't doubt it. :)
tiphereth> Lol yeah
rumel> Yes my bad.
tiphereth> Ill get you Rumel :rolleyes:
Buster> It could have been a pretty unusual lesson for a little dude that there is evil out there, and that it is yours to choose it or fight against it.
rumel> OK, give me your best shot.:)
Jack> Or Calmpost it.
Laly> tip- what you just described..it is eerie, because that is what I am currently experiencing myself
tiphereth> Calmpost?
Jack> < was to Buster re: "or fight against it."
tiphereth> Oh oh..Laly do you feel things or see them?
tiphereth> And Jack I dont know what else to do or how to aproach it .
Laly> may I share what I am going to do-to get thru this?
Laly> i feel them tip...
Buster> Yup.
Jack> Composting is a means of helping shit and waste take its natural course of transforming into fertilizer. Calmposting™ is a method I developed for doing this with dreams, nightmares, memories.
tiphereth> Please.
Laly> what i experienced-- so tramatic- i CANNOT remember it all
Laly> just flashes of memories and not good ones.
Jack> Tiph, will you email me about this, also, please?
Laly> ok--takes HUGe deep breath n releases
rumel> I think at that age we all have some psychic abilities that have not been suppressed yet and they are very real to us.
Laly> I will be seeking professional help i.e. therapist or hypnotist
Laly> and going back to that - which i cannot rememeber
tiphereth> I will E-mail you Jack.
Laly> to recall memories of the night i was violently raped
tiphereth> I wanted to do that , but its nnot in my reach
Jack> [ thanks Tiph! ]
tiphereth> A therapist.
tiphereth> Oh no..Sory Laly.
Laly> the one i se tip-- lives 75 miles from me- in another state
Laly> a female therapist
Laly> (it is ok tip-- no sorry's needed)
Laly> an emotional block that I feel i need to face - in order to truly "Free" myself of the past
Laly> does thought of doing this frighten me-- OH HELL YEAH
tiphereth> I see.
Laly> but a friend once told me- "faith over fear"
tiphereth> Believe in yourself to overcome it. At least it can be clear to you what stands in your path.
Laly> i love myself enough- to have the courage to face this
Laly> and as you were speaking tip-- I "saw" you
Laly> you WILL overcome this
tiphereth> So..is that why you became aware?
Laly> :).
Laly> became aware?? of what?
tiphereth> Nothing.
Laly> sorry mind is split in two right now-- am seeing you in a vision-- but here in chat too.
Buster> I don't want to interrupt anything here, but I don't like to leave without saying good bye. I am pretty tired and need to hit the sack.
tiphereth> Oh you meant it literally
Laly> ok-- sweet dreams --buster
tiphereth> Good nite Buster
rumel> Thanks for the contributions Buster, get some rest friend, talk to you later.
Buster> ...and I am going to miss artform it looks like. Have a good night everyone.
Jack> Thanks VERY much for being here tonight Buster, I'm sorry we didn't get to chat more, but hope you'll post in the interim. You can always reach me by phone or email as well. Have a good one, and Sweet Dreams!
tiphereth> Yeah .Im sory I took soo long. I should have condensed more.
rumel> tip, can I ask about your phrasing of the question to Laly?
Jack> Buster, looks like artform just logged in.
Laly> sure rumel
Jack> No self-recriminations necessary Tiphereth!
tiphereth> What would you like to know?
Buster> No apoligies from anyone, we all need help from others. It is all important.
Jack> I agree with Buster 100%!
tiphereth> I realy am no fan of the Lime Light Jack.
Buster> Now it's crankin' ageless is here now too. I can't make it.......
Jack> Welcome back, Ageless and artform!
rumel> "Is that why you became aware?" is an interesting way to phrase it.
Jack> I understand, Tiphereth. You've been VERY courageous. This is not easy stuff to share, but I'm grateful you know that you're among friends.
Laly> :).
Laly> I am very honored that you opened up tiph .
tiphereth> Im glad to speak with you all.
Laly> i would like to know -- what I am supposedly became "Aware" of
Laly> so that I can respond.
rumel> The question was directed at tip because it implies intent to know.
tiphereth> I was refering to your experience...did it set of your abilities to percieve things ..the way we were discussing early on?
artform> I have read from as far back as the machines allow in this chat and this is quite a journey Tiph; and your resonance with it Laly too. Good to be here with you all.
Laly> welcome artform--
Laly> i too need to head to bed soon--this tigress not made for 17-18 hours
artform> Hugs and sweeter dreams Laly.
tiphereth> Oh..I understand. I was just starting to get sleepy.
rumel> Sleep well tigress of the evening, awaken to the new day refreshed and rejuvenated.
Jack> Sweet Dreams, Laly!
Laly> my practice...it opened my mind up to so many things
Laly> once I let go of the bad things- thoughts, furballs
Laly> yes,, I found I could sense and perceive things
Jack> artform, fyi there's a link up and to the right that says ARCHIVES, you can click that to get the whole transcript, until the system auto-transfers it to the ChatBox subforum, which happens at about 2100 GMT every Saturday.
Laly> Drew called it being an energy sensitive
artform> Thanks Jack. Good to know.
tiphereth> Yeah that is what it is.
Jack> :)
Laly> that is why I answere jack awhile back re: the music-- and my comment i'd orgasm
Laly> i was getting so many energy vibes from you all :)
Laly> as well as my own.
Ageless> Hi you all -- Just read Rumel's second blog -- fantastic Rumel!!!
tiphereth> Its interesting location is negated.
Laly> k-- nite everyone....
Jack> Tiph, do you have any more questions or anything you'd like to share, this evening, before passing along the Talking Stick?
rumel> Bon Soir
tiphereth> Nite Laly.
Laly> tip-- feel free to contact me-- via my blog
Jack> Goodnight, Laly.
tiphereth> No sir. )
tiphereth> Thank you for being the Shaman tonite..Jack.
Jack> You've done GREAT this evening, Tiphereth. By sharing this experience, you've already begun the process of transforming your relationship with it.
tiphereth> I will do tht Laly.
Jack> My pleasure, Tiph - you've had a ChatRoom full of them tonight! :D
tiphereth> Heheh. So im heading off to.
Jack> Ok Tiph, thanks for being here and for sharing like you have! I look forward to hearing from you by email, and also more in the Blogs and Forum!
tiphereth> I should ask...what is the correct address to email you at ..and what do you want mme to send you?
rumel> OK, tip, thanks for sharing, the fur ball is an interesting one to tackle, I know you can decipher the meanings there.
artform> Goodnight Tiph. All the best.
tiphereth> thank you Rumel..all
Jack> Tiph: jack@multiples.com and tell me a little bit more about you in the email. Your age, where you live, whatever you like.
tiphereth> alright then. Plain and simple. Goood nite All~
Jack> BRB.
artform> Ageless, I heartily agree re rumel's reframed post! Wow R!
Jack> Oh you already did it! Way to go rumel! I'll take a look very very soon!
rumel> Well thanks guys, it was a pleasant surprise for me too.
Ageless> How do you feel Rumel after writing it?
rumel> Good!
Ageless> Can you be more specific?
rumel> I am putting so many pieces of my life experiences together in interesting ways.g
Jack> Yes indeed you are!
rumel> It seems the trivia of my knowledge is coalesing in unsuspected ways.
Ageless> KMSO does help put the various pieces of one's life together. Its doing it for me -- big time.
rumel> I am amazing myself.
Jack> Here's the link to Rumels blog - the re-vision is located in the first comment to the initial post.
Jack> Hey that's really GREAT rumel! You're on a ROLL!
artform> I am finding the same holistic review and reflections on pieces and the "fit" of things together.
Jack> WOW what a shift: trance-end-dance!
Jack> Ok if we pass the Talking Stick to artform?
Ageless> I am convinced that opening one up to ones feelings opens one up to one's life experiences.
rumel> Yes, pass through to artform.
artform> Well I started a new blog post here some time ago about "Unpacking" life experiences as they might be effecting my practice...
artform> ...which is taking me along somewhat similar format at the moment.
Jack> Cool! In what ways, artform?
artform> I was a difficult birth too Ageless as we mentioned some weeks ago; a forceps delivery after many problems, I was gripped by the head and yanked into this world.
Jack> Owww eeeeeee!!!
artform> I had a very hypersensitive gut and was allergic to many normal infant foods including milk.
Ageless> Care to share briefly how that experince has effected your life?
artform> And this gut thing is something I have gradually been able to address and negotiate with my body, but some of it is just an ongoing chemical fact.
Jack> Artform, I too was allergic to cow's milk. Raised on goat's milk. Maybe that explains a bit about me :rolleyes:
Jack> Please, continue.
Ageless> And I wa allergic to pasturized milk. Raw milk was oK
artform> I get very angery if someone is pushing me into a mode of thought or discussion point that I have not had a chance to discuss fully first, for example.
artform> The only milk form I could tolerate was carmelized condensed milk that was "boiled" in the sealed can.
Ageless> That fits with what happened to you -- getting angry
artform> Forgive the spelling lapses, less gifts than sleep deprivasion, it's going on 1:00 am here!
Jack> No worries at all! It let's your subconscious come out and play!
rumel> Your forgiven by poweres higher than me!
artform> In any event, having developed duodenal ulcers in the midst of puberty years...
Jack> I don't really think there are misspellings just OTHER spellings when our deeper s'elves have something to say.
artform> ...I knew I had to get that ander under control, but also without ignoring or dishonouring it.
Jack> Something to teach us.
artform> That was essential to my own health, energy levels and survival.
Jack> Jeez that's very intense, artform!
Jack> I like that you mentioned survival... I was about type how honored I feel to be among such courageous survivors, including those here earlier.
artform> And the route was my early explorations of yoga and inner body visualization and mind-body communication.
artform> I cured the ulcers permanently using these techniques, which have short-formed since then as "putting a mental box around them and isolating them from the stresses". It worked and continues to...
artform> ...although the stresses can then emerge through other body parts, which then need their own form of attention! But, on the whole this has worked for many other types of unhealthy outlets too.
Jack> I'd like to teach you Calmposting™ some time.
artform> One of the things about the early years and the puberty years is the fact that I was repeatedly prescribed a particular drug: atropine, the flying formula for witchcraft BTW.
artform> From birth I was cholic-ridden and the hyper-gastric issues continued even after a year of extreme cholic...
artform> ...and resulted in me being raised for my first six years on phenobarbatol and atropine in combination.
artform> The with the ulcers during puberty, I was treated by the doctors with a stomach gel that again had atropine as a main ingredient.
Ageless> Artform -- care to share what sort of relationship you had with your mother in those early years?
artform> In this Unpacking post here and in a post at Aneros I have introduced this history briefly and said that I think now...
artform> ...that this may well have had some form of rewiring effects in those early years that our practices here and there are using and further transforming.
artform> I had some subtle feelings then about being potentially able to overcome gravity and "walk" floating into the air but in a controlled way returning to ground by intent. I never had any full halucinations, although this situtaion may well have contributed to the Intellectual Orgasms I experienced in the years just after the last couple of years on atropine!
artform> Ageless, because I was ill a lot during my infancy and childhood, there were often nurses in our home to assist. I have had a good relationship with my mother. The problem was more that my father was not allowed to hold me until I was two years old. I had to spend a fair bit of time in bed in my bedroom reading and listening to music. That also kept me calmer Jack!
Jack> What was your relationship like with your Father after that?
artform> So, sorting through many things that are part of my life narrative and that have effected my body and its processes through all that.
Jack> Whew what a survivor!
Jack> We all are, here.
Jack> I sure feel a lot of honor and trust being with each of you.
artform> It was up and down, generally good but we did clash on several things along the way. Both parents died in the last eight years, peacefully and I was with them both in very good ways through their deaths.
Ageless> You are doing great artform -- I am VERY proud of you.
rumel> I am humbled by courage of your existences, both of you, artform and Ageless
artform> That was about father. I don't think we bonded as we would have had he been involved with my care too through my first two years.
Jack> For sure.
Jack> How was it after that and during adolescence? Young adulthood?
Jack> I'm very glad you were able to be with them so much at their Transition time.
artform> Gee Guys! To me it's just life. Thanks very much. It is so great to be part of a community like this where we can go to the fundamentals with this level of trust and comaradery.
artform> It was a transition time for sure Jack. I have written about it over at Tao Bums and been designated a psychopomp; a guider/helper on spirit journeying.
rumel> Compared to you two guys, I've lived a pampered existence, nothing so traumatic as you both have experienced.
Jack> An honor well-deserved! Please give my best to Sean and the rest of the good folk over there. I owe them some answers about KSMO. Maybe you can help now, that you've got so much experience with it.
Jack> < was to artform.
Ageless> Artform -- Welcome fellow Shaman
artform> In youth I had my own projects but was also part of many of the projects of my very active parents.
Jack> Hey no worries rumel! We're all in this together, and you can throw down (i.e. share the REAL stuff) like the rest of us!
artform> Ageless, (and rumel and Jack!) Shaman is the area I have explored least but feel is in a sense my "missing link" at the moment.
Jack> [ sidebar ] I gotta say again just how fantastic the work was that you did today in your blog and in the chats, rumel. Whew! You brought the REAL stuff to the table!
artform> I agree with Jack rumel!
Jack> Do you know the difference between a medicine man and a shaman, traditionally?
artform> Re: Tao Bums Jack, I have been discussing in several threads.
Ageless> You are right there with us Rumel.
artform> Re: medicine man v. shaman: no, do not know.
Jack> Thanks artform re: TaoBums!
artform> Read Casteneda when was first published and felt "I do some of that too".
Jack> Short version re: medicine man or medicine woman in contrast to shaman (male, female, two-spirit)...
Ageless> Jack, in many traditions and thoughts, they are the same. Some feel a medicine man is more highly trained in the use of plants and herbs
Jack> A lot of times the terms are used interchangeably, but traditionally tribes often would have at least one of each.
artform> Taken largely by the Bushmen and "The Gods Must Be Crazy and its sequel and the documentary.
Jack> The medicine person would be more of a politician. They were/are attracted to the power role and the social leadership or control.
artform> Also as all this appears in "How Art Made the World" book and DVD, as mentioned weeks ago. :)
Jack> Traditionally shamans, according to Andreas Lommel for example, were/are people who are OF the tribe... in fact essential to its survival - yet not IN the tribe. They are often seen as the weirdos, the outsiders, the wackos OF the tribe, however.
artform> We are a family of politicians!
Jack> When Lommel traveled the world interviewing shamans, he found themes they shared from Siberia to South America and around the globe.
artform> At the same time I have fitted your shaman description!
artform> That is, part of the arty outsiders at high school and a leader of student protest and ciriculum reform at university.
Jack> They typically said that they did not CHOOSE to become shamans, that they were kidnapped by the spirits and dragged away from the tribe into the wilderness (remember the myth of Jesus wandering in the desert? And Moses?) and that the spirits ripped their body to shreds,
artform> "We may be ill,but we never sit still!"
Jack> and they had to develop psychic and even physical medicine magic to put themselves back together piece by piece.
rumel> We may actually be a family of shamans!
Jack> Their role is most often that of an outsider, the oddball, etc. At the tribal festivals they are typically not in the dancing circle, nor are they in the center of the circle - that's often where the medicine person is.
Jack> They are typically running around the outside of the circle, grabassing the people in the circle, dry-humping them, tugging at them, trying to kidnap them,
rumel> Jack you are describing my secret self.
Jack> frightening them generally shaking things up. But in doing so, they challenge the tribe to continue to redefine their reality. The shamans often don't initially
Jack> seek visions, they are besieged by them... and are take under the wing of the older shamans and taught the ways
Jack> and rituals of converting at least some of the spirits into allies.
rumel> Yep that's me. :)
Jack> Exactly my point, rumel. :D
Jack> You're not alone here, Brother!
artform> The regional media have tagged me a "Prophet" and one colunist and I are "doing lunch" next week because she wants to what is currently on my mind!
Jack> Likewise nods and a wink to artform, Ageless, and the others who've been here today.
artform> *columnist
Jack> He cool, artform. Just no grabassing. That was in the old days!
Ageless> I am glad you are here Rumel -- and one of us.
artform> It is fascinating as you set that all out Jack!
rumel> Glad to be here and share.
Jack> :) Thanks artform. My gift to you!
Jack> To each of you!
artform> Ageless, agree re: rumel and all being here!
artform> Thanks so much Jack!
Ageless> Time to go -- good night all
Jack> Just as we've all had pretty intense traumas in our life. Those are our initiations. We have found our here in spite of and guided by those experiences.
artform> What's "He cool,..." Jack?
Jack> Yes Ageless, me too! Thanks to all y'all for everything today and EVERY day!!!
artform> Good night and thanks so much to you Ageless!
Jack> A subconscious slip or a wink I guess... My subconscious saying Yeah! HE COOL! :D
Ageless> And thanks to you artform, rumel, and jack
Jack> Hey a big group cyberhug to All Y'all!!!
artform> Thanks so much too to you rumel!
rumel> May the Night Owl visit you tonight Ageless. have fun.
Jack> You're very welcome Ageless One!
Ageless> I WILL:)
Jack> Hey my subconscious also just wrote Ageloss... Like you're the Youngster of the group!!! ;)
rumel> artform the mystic mist will find you soon my friend.
Jack> Ok, guys that's about a wrap. It's been another VERY FULL DAY! I hope you'll spread the word to people of like spirit to come join with us here. We have much to share and much to learn.
rumel> Jack, thanks for revealing my inner shaman.
Jack> And there are now over 300 coaching chat transcripts online here in this Forum!
rumel> Good night all.
Jack> You're quite welcome rumel. Happy RE-B'Earth Day!
artform> All the best to All.
Jack> ***** END of Multiple Orgasm Trigger Training and Discussion Forum™ hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA
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Jack> Lavahhhhh VERY nice to hear from you! And I'm glad to hear that things are going so well for you! I hope you'll make a blog post to bring us up to date!
zeitgeist> Good day to all members and visitors viewing today!
zeitgeist> The site search is very useful for looking at specific information and issues that other people like you experience
zeitgeist> Just dive in and enjoy the fishing!
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Jack> aquarius I hope you'll start your blog so we can find out how you're doing, and answer any questions you may have. Of course, you're welcome to post to the Forum's sub-forums, check out the Gold Nuggets, and study the Chat Transcripts - that go back all the way to 1997!
Session stop: Sat Oct 25 02:33:25 2008