Session start: Sat Oct 11 22:10:29 2008
Jack> Prior chat transcript is available here : Multiple Orgasm Trigger(tm) Discussion ChatBox Transcript of 20081010
Laly> Welcome and warm wishes to newest member kando!
Laly> Hi ZooYork
mog> Hi Kando - Glad to se you over here!
Helios> hi
Myah> hi there
Myah> hi again
Jack> The Forum software has successfully been updated. However, this software is virtually the most comprehensive, feature-rich forum on the web so due to its complexity, there may be a loose wire here or there after an upgrade. Please let me know if there is anything that doesn't seem to be working correctly. Thanks and now... back to our discussion! -- Jack
Helios> hi jack
Helios> what are you thinking about my email? iam doing right?
rumel> Hey tiphereth, are you really here? I just read your Aneros Forum posts.
rumel> Thanks for the second on the post to 'reddevil'
Jack> ***** Welcome to the Multiple Orgasm Trigger™ Training and Discussion Chat of 20081018 hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA !
rumel> Hello, mog & Jack
Jack> Hi rumel!
Jack> Hello Mog, wherever in the Forum you might be!
rumel> Hi Laly - :)
Laly> hi magnificent rumel HUGS
Jack> Hi Laly!
Laly> hi jack
Ageless> Hi you all
Jack> Greetings Ageless One!
Laly> ageless HUGS hi!!
rumel> magnificent???? Hmmm??? but thanks for the HUGS!
artform> Hi All!
Laly> (sorry rumel-- magnificient is what came to mind--oh masterful one ;) )
rumel> Hi Ageless, I just rreceived your latest email thanks for the second batch.
Ageless> WOW -- what a great group:)
Jack> Hey rumel, if you're up for it, I'd like to respond to some of your comments in your blog post.
rumel> Hi artform, how's the weather up north?
Jack> Hi artform!
rumel> Jack of course, go right ahead.
artform> Bright sunshine and warm; how about your neck of the woods?
Ageless> Rumel -- the next two may take a while. Day or two
artform> Hi Jack Canuck!
Jack> Cheers, eh!
rumel> artform- overcast, Ageless - that's cool.
Jack> Will do, rumel, as soon as everyone's finished with their greetings. :)
artform> Welcome Eh!
Jack> Oh hey thanks, eh!
Jack> Okay... I'd like to pass the Talking Stick to rumel so we might all discuss some of the points in his blog post referenced a few lines below here.
Jack> Are we all set for that? :)
rumel> OK by me, I'm ready to hear your comments Jack.
Jack> Ok. Have you ever heard discussions of the concept of a No set contrasted to a Yes set?
Jack> It's discussed in NLP, although like a huge portion of NLP, was taken from the work of Milton H. Erickson MD.
rumel> No, pleases explain.
Jack> It has to do generally with becoming aware of the cognitive emotional frame or tone one assigns to any experience.
Jack> If one is framing experience within a No Set, then the cognitive tendency will be to characterize further experiences negatively. By contrast, if one characterizes any given experience within a positive cognitive frame, it sets the stage for subsequent experiences to be framed positively as well.
rumel> Being a "positive" spin doctor versus a "negative" one ?
Laly> yes- in a way
Jack> Well, spin doctor itself for many people has a negative association. Although especially in reference to Erickson, the pun is noted. :) That's a pretty intellectual definition, but what I'm referring to as it relates to allowing oneself to frame whatever spontaneous events may happen during and following practice.
Jack> In your blog post, you demonstrate what I also refer to as the potential trap of not much is happening.
Jack> It's also known as the cognitive pattern of minimization.
Jack> It's a cognitive pattern that can lead one to feeling stuck or not getting anywhere - also known as chasing away the fawn - when in fact SOME new things ARE happening, and one has a CHOICE about whether one frames that as a POSITIVE sign or a negative one.
Jack> Are you getting my drift?
Jack> :)
rumel> Yes, the minimization is an ego protection mechanism I continue to deal with.
Jack> Well that's VERY COOL that you are identifying that pattern!
rumel> Part of me does recogonize the subtle effects but the ego gets in the way to control the excitement.
Jack> It's a kind of cognitive furball. That is, one of those patterns that we ALL have or have had to one degree or another,
Jack> that may hinder our personal evolution.
Laly> (for those wondering what NLP is --Ill do a brief post about it and link it back to here)
Jack> Like the I Ching says, more often than any other phrase: No blame. Perseverance furthers.
Jack> :)
rumel> Yep, it is a matter of me tripping myself on the journey forward.
Jack> One thing I'd like you to consider doing, just to find out what might happen is to post a followup (i.e., don't edit the current blog post) where you have removed all of the negative characterizations - the No set framing - of the spontaneous Echo Effects - the feelings, sensations, etc. - that you DID experience in the session(s) you reported.
rumel> I need to focus on the the next step and not keep looking too far beyond the present location.
Jack> Then just notice how you feel when you do that. And perhaps post THAT as well. :)
Jack> Well, I wouldn't even say that you need to focus on the next step, but rather, where you are in the moment. :)
Jack> And then you have a choice about how to frame that experience.
artform> In my own professional work, we practice a child-like trust and willingness to be wholly open and vulnerable in the experience.
Jack> You can assign a not much is happening frame, or a very minor kind of frame, or you also have the opportunity to assign a frame along the lines of oh, here are those very faint at first sensations that Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol™ describes.
Jack> Like the shy fawn is poking his nose out of the woods just a little bit. Having a sniff to see if the coast is clear.
Jack> A valuable step can be to realize or as I like to say real-eyes that you have a choice.
Jack> Just recognizing that you DO have a choice in how you frame that experience, can be quite liberating.
Jack> Sage advice, artform!
Jack> And a nice invitation that you are extending to rumel!
Jack> Rumel, do you grok how artform chooses to frame that? Do you grok how I chose how to frame what artform said?
rumel> What is the meaning of "grok"?
Jack> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grok
Jack> :D
Laly> if i may offer something?
Jack> How about in a moment or two, Laly?
Jack> Let's give rumel a moment to grok what is grok. ;)
Laly> *mocks zipping lips
artform> love that quantum entanglement!
rumel> OK, that word is going to take some time to rumble around in my head to make meaningful connections, I'm not sure I have the verbal ability to articulate any understanding.
Jack> Now we're getting somewhere!
rumel> right now.
Jack> Are you familiar with the Zen Koan:
Jack> Words Fail
rumel> I've heard the term and understand the meaning.
Jack> It's one of my favorites. It's loaded with Buddha Laughter.
rumel> or how about Love All
Jack> That's a nice one too. I hope, perhaps when you least expect it, you'll discover the Buddha Laughter in Words Fail. :)
Jack> It is quite a propos of the Echo Effects experience as the Opening continues.
Jack> Rumel, will you do a subsequent post to the blog post we've been discussing, without the negative framing, just to discover what you might learn from doing so?
rumel> OK, I'll do it.
Jack> Cool! I look forward to reading it! :) Thanks!
Ageless> Way to go, Rumel
Jack> Yeah, and way to grow, Rumel
artform> All the best in this friend Rumel!
Jack> Yes, from me, too!
rumel> An image just flashed through my head right now that I'll report in the revised blog post.
Jack> Ok, you tease... I look forward to reading it!
Jack> :)
Ageless> :D
Jack> Laly, how about you post the comment you wanted to make, as a reply in rumel's thread after he makes his revisioned post?
rumel> It is not my intent to tease, it will take some time to describe my momentary revelatation.
Laly> not anymore jack
rumel> oops sorry about the spelling - revelation.
Jack> There may be some revelation in revelatation.
artform> Have fun with it R.
rumel> ?
Jack> One of my favorite statements of Erickson's was: ...but you can WONDER!
Laly> mine too Jack.
rumel> Ahh yes states of wonderment - Words Fail
Jack> BTW rumel, it's ok with me if you sometimes tease without conscious intention.
Jack> Ahh yes! :)
Jack> Ageless One, how are you doing today?
Ageless> Doing good. Had a good KMSO thi morning. It started with an echo effect.
Jack> Starting with a bang, eh?
Jack> Would you be willing to share a bit about what you experienced?
Ageless> I am realizing I have a large fur ball around feeling sexual pleasure, but the fur ball is dissolving some each session
Jack> I'm very glad you're getting the real eye zing about that furball, and am very very glad to hear that you are becoming aware of how it's dissolving. That bodes well, I'd say!
Ageless> OK -- Woke up with a realy hard erection which is unusual for me. While enjoying that (a new way to look at an erection) the head of my penis touched a sheet and the pleasure was really strong. So I let that happen for a while. As it happened, I started to feel pulsations in areas of my genitals I have never experienced before.
Ageless> Great way to wake up!!!:)
Jack> Wow that's really great on all counts! And I like hearing about the unprecedented sensations!
Jack> As the furball dissolves, you're making more room for pleasure and self-acceptance in it! :)
Ageless> I just gave myself permission to feel it. No, I incouraged feeling it. Said to myself this is great -- right on.
Laly> awesome!
Jack> Yeah! I like the way you UPGRADED in that last statement, Ageless!
artform> Yes!
rumel> Wow, I loved your typo "in courage d" feeling...
Jack> Hey thanks for calling attention to that rumel!
Jack> What we've been trained to call slips are actually gifts!
Ageless> First, I don't remember having my "head" so sensative. Two, I sometimes have woke up feeling pulsations in my genitals whenit touched a sheet, like a series of comtractions. But this was much deeper and seemed to be a sort of ejaculation sensation or pulse, but mild or weak ones.
Laly> (am keeeping mum-per request)
Jack> That's all sounding GREAT, Ageless!!!
Jack> [Welcome, tiphereth!]
Laly> (welcome tiphereth)
Ageless> Wow, just figured out the "incouraged" comment. THanks guys
artform> Ageless, can you describe these sensations location?
artform> or locationS:)
artform> Hi tiphereth!
tiphereth> Oh hey, I was at the bottome catching up.
Ageless> What I had been feeling is a sort of "comtraction, or series of them. They feel good. This morning, the sensations were deeper or farthur down. Like in a anus and pelvic floor.
Ageless> Try "contractions"
artform> In your perineum between the scrotum and anus?
Jack> Actually, I really like your coinage of comtractions. You're definitely getting some traction!
Ageless> There were even signs of pulsations in my pelvic bone area -- pelvic hair area.
rumel> maybe that's a new word "comtraction" = compact contraction
Jack> I agree, rumel and his subconscious says he's getting traction in this new way of coming!
artform> Those are two great crucial areas and extraordinarily promising, I'd say!
Ageless> Oh wow. What about a mix of two words. Contractions and come or orgasm.
rumel> :D
Jack> Yeah I agree, artform!!!
artform> And I agree with your lexicognosis!
Jack> Ageless your practice is really awakening you in a new way! Congratulations!
Jack> WOW that's a humdinger, artform!
Ageless> :D:D
Jack> Did you just coin that, artform or is that from your treasure chest?
artform> Spontaneous lingua!
Ageless> I realy feel like I am coming alive -- feeling something that has been turned off most of my life. I love it!!!!
Jack> Cunning!
Jack> < was to artform
artform> Hum-dinger!=Key Sound tuned to resonate one's prostate and othet orgasmic nerve centres.
Jack> Oh man, Ageless, that is REALLY WONDERFUL to hear!!!
Jack> You're on a roll, artform, right along with rumel, and thanks for that!
artform> Ageless, it is so good to hear you on your progress and spirit!!
Ageless> Oh how I wish I was aware of what it felt like to feel these sensations when I was younger. My sex life and married life would have been FAR different.
artform> Jack, you can't have too much fun!:D
Jack> I hear you Ageless. I think that's true for all of us...
Jack> I agree, artform, and thanks for reminding me!
Laly> (since you all are having the fun-- i'll just sneak out here)
rumel> As Mae West said "Too much of a good thing is wonderful"
Ageless> So long Laly -- thanks for being here
artform> Ageless, I could say the same thing about not developing the mutual prostate practice with mrs. a decades ago...
artform> Hugs Laly!
artform> ...but I don't have the energy for regret. I'd rather put it into the positive present too!
artform> But I sympathize very much.
Ageless> I am just learning to relax when feeling the sexual pleasure in other areas of my body. Tension is still there but its weakening and fading.
rumel> Ageless, I think sometimes when we were younger we did have these feelings, we just discounted their value or didn't understand.
Jack> I agree artform, while I certainly understand the kind of grief one can feel, and I honor that too as a way of saying goodbye to that past. It's also quite common to feel such grief at these times of new opening.
Jack> VGP, rumel!
Jack> [ and thanks for the reminder about that great Mae West quote, rumel! ]
artform> Right on R!
Jack> This is actually something very important that is fairly common as your Grand Opening continues, everyone...
Jack> That is, as you open to these new deeps of feeling, the older furballs will surface... saying in effect: There's new Life Force in the neighborhood - Heal ME!
Jack> [ New deeps... Thank you all, subconscious! ]
Ageless> I believe these good feelings can be lost real early in life. They are felt during birth, but if they are also accompanied by being held back and almost dying, they may be shut down then. The association of the two is not pleasant.
Jack> To put it mildly. Ageless would you share a little more about that particular story - as not everyone may be aware of that part of your history.
Ageless> I am learning that its OK to feel pleasure, that it is safe to do so.
artform> Agreed Ageless. Life Narrative and Life Force are entangled intimately.
rumel> Ageless, I am happy that you did NOT lose you good feelings, they were just locked away for a bit.
Ageless> I was born on Thanksgiving day -- late morning. Mom was in her room and I came sooner than expected. Doctor could not be found as he was on his way to dinner. Nurses didn't want me to be born in mom's room, so they pushed me back in and held her legs shut while we were taken to the delivery room. My blood was shut off during this time.
tiphereth> ?! What idiots
rumel> Now that you have found the KEY Sounds like you are making good progress, :)
Ageless> You are right Rumel, they were just locked away -- and the wiring lost over time. I am rewiring to feel them. Use them or loose them as the saying goes.
Jack> Thanks very much for sharing that part of your history again Ageless. I wanted to make sure everyone was aware of it.
Jack> As you were saying, to be in the middle of something that was pleasurable, profoundly so, and then to have it interrupted, and frighteningly so - at your birth. Whew. You are indeed a survivor and I'm VERY VERY glad you are still growing and are continuing to be reborn into this life and its pleasures.
artform> Indeed!
Ageless> Back in the 60's, when I recieved a massage, I would turn a dark red over my entire body, and get an erection. Didn't know at first what it was all about.
Ageless> Come to think of it, I would feel extremely sexual pleasure in whtever part of my body the therapist was touching. Didn't know thn what I was feeling.
Jack> When did you first reclaim the awareness of what the source of this response was?
Ageless> Dr. Stan Grof explained to me what he thought it was all about.
Ageless> I was at Esalen doing one of his holitropic breathing workshops
Ageless> Mom had already told me what had happened at birth. Grof put the pieces together
Jack> What an incredibly liberating gift he gave you!
Ageless> I know!
Jack> Is there anything else you'd like to share at this time, or any other questions we may help you with?
Ageless> Someting else interesting. The massage therapist would stop from time to time. She kept telling me she had NEVER worked on someone with such a high energy level.
Jack> What do you make of it?
Ageless> One more question -- why am I sweating so much (something new) under my arms when I get into the KSMO session?
Ageless> I think I was feeling the energy I felt during birth.
Jack> What's your hunch?
Jack> Makes sense, as you rebirth yourself.
rumel> First dates always made me sweat in my armpits!
rumel> Sometimes sweaty palms too.
Ageless> HUnch on sweating? Its probably fear, but may also be connected to or part of the parasympathetic response
Jack> Ageless, Like I previously alluded - and here I'm influenced by Reich - that as you open more to the healthy sexual energy as it awakens through our Practice, that tends to release the furballs or emotional trauma heretofore locked up in those different areas of your body.
rumel> I think you may be reconnecting with youthful sexual energy.
Jack> Yeah I agree likewise about the parasympathetic response.
Jack> And with rumel's comment about reconnecting with youthful sexual energy.
Jack> Also release of male hormones.
Ageless> There is no doubt that the KSMO practice opens up any old wounds -- and thereby allowing healing.
Ageless> Thoughout this chat session, I have been very aware of tingling in my scotum area -- feels good
tiphereth> What if you open too many atonce.
Ageless> Don't think it can happen. The body will always move in to protect if needed
rumel> Is it opening old wounds or opening the observation of the wounds origin for healing purposes?
artform> In my experience, KSMO also facilitates transformations of energies: jing-chi-shen or seminal-lifeforce-spiritual back and forth too...
artform> ...which are incredibly strong in healing as we progress!
Jack> Tiphereth, I think there can be a chance of opening too quickly. That can be a bit of a complex issue. Although I agree with Ageless to some degree, I also acknowledge that depending on where you might
Ageless> Rumel, I think the two go hand in hand. Feeling the old wounds AND observing origins. I don't believe (my belief) that just knowing the origin is healing. I know too many people who know what happened to them from hour one on, but are still traumatized.
Jack> be in recovery from various traumas, you may at times feel overwhelmed. That's why I advise an easy does it approach to this practice,
Jack> rather than rushing or pushing through. I believe in a gentle approach to the openings, and a sensitivity to what our Healing Self is whispering to us.
tiphereth> Overwhelmed...lol
Jack> Likewise though, the fear of being overwhelmed may itself be a furball - or a fearball - hmm that's a new one... I don't recall having used that term before! You heard it here first! :)
Ageless> Jack, I agree. It can come too fast -- but if one is aware of ones body, and is gentle, it won't come too fast.
Laly> :)
rumel> Ageless, I agree with you, my response was to the fact of KSMO reawakening the fur ball to begin with.
Jack> Agreed... And when the fear comes up, that's a signal to pause and give yourself a chance to heal the old wound - with professional assistance if need be, before continuing practice.
artform> Agree Ageless. Trusting your body, body-mind integration and intuitive responses is the safety valve, IMHO.
tiphereth> Fear is something that plagued me since I was about 5
Jack> I'd like to make sure everyone gets a chance with Talking Stick, and there's another chat in a little over 6 hours from now.
Jack> Is there anyone here who hasn't had a chance at the Talking Stick, who will not be able to be present for our second chat? If so, I'd like to give you a chance now before I take a rest break before the second chat.
rumel> I believe tiphereth should be allowed some time.
artform> Yes.
artform> re R re Tiph
tiphereth> I though t he was taking a rest now.
Jack> I'm here.
tiphereth> I dont mind waiting.
artform> How about that plague of fear since 5?
Jack> Will you be at the second chat, tiphereth?
tiphereth> Yes.
Jack> Ok... if you can wait til then, I'd appreciate it. Anyone else?
rumel> Alas, if we could only be immunized from the "plague of fear"
tiphereth> You would think it would not be hard.
Jack> RE: Immunization rumel, this is how we do it!
Jack> Is there anyone else who like the Talking Stick, who will not be able to make it to the second chat starting in a little over 6 hours from now?
artform> Some things in life can make it very hard!
Jack> I sure agree with that one, artform!
artform> I'll be back tonight but late, whenever we get home from the symphony! See you then eh?
rumel> I am going to check out to go re-write my last blog, perhaps I'll talk to you all a little later. Thanks everybody for your input. Ciao for now.
artform> See you soon rumel.
Jack> If there's no one else here who'd like the Talking Stick now, and who won't be able to make it to the second chat, I'm going to go ahead and excuse myself now, until then. The channel remains open of course, so you are all quite welcome to continue, and I'll review the transcript before tonight's hosted chat.
Jack> Take care rumel, you did good work today, and I appreciate
Ageless> So long everyone. I will try to be at the next chat -- and Rumel, I am looking forward to reading your next blog.
Jack> your doing a second post that is a re-vision. Please be sure to leave the current one for comparison. I think that will be valuable to you and to others, to be able to appreciate the contrast.
Jack> Thanks again Ageless!
Jack> Ok, everyone, I will see at least of you tonight (or depending on your time zone, early a.m.) for the second hosted chat!
Ageless> AND THANK YOU JACK
artform> Great visit again Ageless!
Ageless> And the rest of you.
Jack> ***** END of Multiple Orgasm Trigger ™ Training and Discussion Chat hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA
Jack> This chat channel remains open 24/7 for the mutual benefit of our community.
Session stop: Sat Oct 18 19:51:48 2008