Session start: Sat Sep 6 21:07:56 2008
Jack> Latest chat transcript is available here : Multiple Orgasm Trigger(tm) Discussion ChatBox Transcript of 2008095
Buster> Hello?
Jack> The Echo Effects are parasympathic (i.e. automatic rather than intentional
Jack> inhales.
Buster> Are you talking to me? Something happened here.
tiphereth> yeah the session closed.
Jack> Yeah the archiving script just ran. It's not supposed to in the middle of a chat, but I guess vbmtor never got that fine-tuned the way I'd requested him to.
Buster> Huh. Well, I hope it wasn't something that I said.
Buster> One quick ending to that last issue if we could. Do you recomment that the single caress be done before or after the KS? over
Jack> I'd asked him to program the script to not execute until there was at least 5 minutes of NO activity in the channel, in case we ran over our scheduled ending time, but he never got it done.
Jack> If any of you know of a good, trustworthy vBulletin programmer, I'm looking for one because vbmtor had to quit working for us due to his full-time professional and personal commitments.
Jack> Here's the theory behind that aspect of the Protocol re: timing of Key Sound and single pleasurable caress:
Jack> First of all, understand that the correctly articulated Key Sound™ has an amplifying effect.
Jack> It's purpose is as an alternative to using stimulation to amplify arousal, since stimulation energizes the ejaculation reflex.
Jack> And what we want to do is to amplify the parasympathetic arousal system, rather than any sympathetically-based arousal such as that resulting from stimulation.
Jack> Whenever we are touched or touch ourselves in a pleasurable way, we will automatically inhale. That is
Jack> a parasympathetic response. So,
Jack> we want to use the arousal-amplifying Key Sound immediately AFTER pleasurable touch because THAT is when we are most probably doing a parasympathetic inhale,
Jack> also known as a charging breath.
Buster> So, single touch on the inhale before making the Key Sound(tm). Got it chief. over
Jack> SO... The Protocol calls for a SINGLE (not continuous) caress of a pleasurable area, such as genital, nipple, perineum, etc., immediately followed (because you're most likely doing a parasympathetic inhale) arousal-amplifying Key Sound, and
Jack> the little abdominal crunch that you will automatically do when you articulate the Key Sound™ (i.e., my discovery) correctly,
tiphereth> That makes good sense.
rumel> If I'm hearing this correctly, you're saying the initial physical stimulation and the resulting pleasure wave are then amplified via the Key Sound to act in a manner like simple harmonic motion?
Jack> gives that little bit of parasympathetic pleasure a little bit of a push, or a wee nudge.
Buster> I was doing it wrong. You got me set up straight now. You da man! over.
Jack> BUT we don't want to then switch to sympathetic system by chasing after it by trying to force the Key Sound louder or use more stimulation... we want to stay within the parasympathetic zone...
tiphereth> Reminds of the Q-Link!!
Jack> So it's a single pleasurable touch (automatic, i.e. parasympathetic) inhale (automatic charging breath), then an unforced Key Sound (with that automatic slight abdominal squeeze as you do the rolling part of the sound), and
Jack> that gently pumps the arousal system a little bit, but without engaging the ejaculatory response system. Arousal is increasing, i.e. orgasmic response system is being energized, but ejaculation reflex system is NOT. So then
Buster> My abs can use the workout. I don't recall ever hearing that part. Good to know.
Jack> we just do a few relaxing breaths (to give the body a chance to just go with this energy for a bit), and we're not lapsing into Chasing the Fawn as Adept Andi would say, and then just repeating that:
Jack> another little caress, a little gentle pump with an unforced Key Sound on the exhale of that parasympathetic pleasure inhale, a little more relaxation to let that energy spread throughout our nervous system and musculature, then repeat. Voila. Q.E.D.!
Jack> Buster, you don't want to INTENTIONALLY crunch your abs. If you do, you're engaging sympathetic system - the intentional system. Just articulate the Key Sound correctly and the crunch happens on its own.
Buster> I was joking. My abs need more than a simple squeeze.
Jack> Well once those parasympathetic orgasmic waves get going, you'll have all of the ab exercise you'll need! LOL!
Jack> You said you felt you were doing something wrong (sic), what aspect or behavior had you misinterpreted?
Buster> "You said you felt you were doing something wrong (sic), what aspect or behavior had you misinterpreted?" Who are you talking to here?
Jack> rumel I think the answer to your harmonic motion question is YES, if you'll confirm by defining what you mean by simple harmonic motion.
Jack> Buster I thought you said Oh I've been doing it wrong. or words to that effect.
Buster> I was caressing WAY TOO MUCH! I am bad that way, I guess.
Buster> I will correct that and let you know how it goes. Thanks for the feedback Jack.
Jack> No you're not BAD, silly boy!
Jack> You're LEARNING!
rumel> I'm using the term as defined by physics.
Buster> The "if it feels good, do it" mentality should not appy here.
Jack> Yeah tune that aspect and let us know what if anything happens differently. We'll just keep tuning you up!
Buster> Someone need to. Obviously.
rumel> A bridge can be made to collapse from wind due to simple harmonic motion.
Jack> You're right about that Buster, cuz continuous stimulation feels good, but tends to lead to triggering the ejaculation reflex and to prevent ejaculation usually requires tension, which is the antithesis of the Multiple Orgasm Triggered reflex system.
Jack> rumel yeah I remember the dramatic film of that. What "narrows" bridge was it that just flopped itself to pieces?
rumel> The Verizano Narrows (sp?) Bridge.
Buster> Somewhere up in your southern neck of the woods, I think.
Jack> Interesting that it did so by ever stronger undulations, and undulation is definitely a spontaneous aspect of these spontaneous Echo Effects™ as they become ever stronger during the KSMO practice and it's resultant effects.
Jack> Thanks rumel. Sounds about right.
Jack> Yeah the wind passing over and under the bridge set up a harmonic vibration
Jack> of the bridge structure that caused it to absorb more and more of the wind's energy rather than
Jack> allowing it to pass over and under the bridge and that energy absorption
Jack> caused it to vibrate more and more. Awakening this multiorgasmic response is QUITE analogous, we just don't want you to shake yourself to pieces. The difference is,
rumel> Yes, It got into natural harmony with the bridges natural vibration frequency and shook itself to bits.
Jack> the bridge owners had no way to dial back on the wind as the undulations began, but YOU DO have the ability to dial back on the stimulation AND the use of Key Sound (i.e. the introduction of more energy into the system) and you can switch to just relaxing breathing so you don't shake yourself to pieces!
rumel> In our case I think we are talking about vibrating into a continuous orgasmic state.
Jack> Greetings airn!
Jack> Well guys, I don't want to shake myself to pieces either so how about
Jack> we take a break until 7pm PDT tonight? That is, unless someone has
Jack> and unanswered question and you won't be able to make it to the 7pm PDT / 0200 GMT chat that starts in a little over 4 hours from now.
Buster> Thanks Jack. I appreciate the time that you give us.
Jack> rumel. Yes that's precisely it! We are charging up a harmonic system which has it's own inner charging system available as well. We just use the Key Sound™ method to charge it enough for it to take over on its own and we surf the waves!
Jack> Hey you're quite welcome Buster. Thank you for bringing your true authentic selves to our dialogues, that's what makes it all happen for REAL. I hope you guys will continue to spread the word far and wide! :D
rumel> Well, my first visit here has been enjoyable, thank you all for the tips and interesting conversation. Until next time, Good Vibes to You! Bye.
Jack> I'm very glad to hear it, rumel, it's been a real pleasure to have you here! Please stay connected to this process and our dialogues!
Jack> Bye all til we meet again! Next chat begins in 4 hours and 8 minutes.
Jack> ***** END of Multiple Orgasm Trigger™ Training and Discussion Chat of 20080906 hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA
canuck75> wow, two of the ksmo people I love the most are online with me
canuck75> How's it going Laly and Mog?
Laly> going great canuck and for you??
canuck75> Well, I'm outy, have an amazing night you KSMO fiends!
canuck75> I'm awesome lalay
canuck75> sorry Laly
Laly> nite canuck!
Laly> great to hear canuck
canuck75> are you still logged in laly?
Laly> no worries re: miss-spelling
Laly> yeah
canuck75> hey I'd love to chat, my msn is canuck1975@hotmail.com
Laly> ok
canuck75> Do you have msn messenger?'
Laly> yes
Laly> lil_grasshopper4130@yahoo.com
Laly> i cant give thaqt out here canuck
Laly> i'll IM it to you
Laly> got it?
Buster> Evening Gentlemen.
Laly> Hi Buster
Jack> ***** Welcome to the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Training and Discussion Chat hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA™
Buster> Hi Laly, I didn't see you there.
Jack> Good Evening Lady Laly and Gentlemen!
Drew> Hi all.
Ageless> Hi all -- Ageless
Laly> Hi Drew, Jack, Ageless
Buster> There you are Laly.
Laly> Sorry Buster ...was hiding behind your chair *winks
Buster> Is it just my computer, or is everyone having a long delay before your comments show up?
Laly> anyone want to go first??
Laly> i get short delay
Buster> I would say that it is at least 20 seconds.
Laly> yeah...about that
Ageless> Its not your computer -- I was waiting for someone else.
Drew> Who will be first to grab the talking stick?
Buster> Would anyone mind if I asked the second part of the question that I did not get to this afternoon?
Laly> *looks around the room ....
Ageless> I would like to encourage everyone to go back to the earelier chat. I was really blown away by it.
Laly> fine by me buster
Laly> but i need to head out soon
Ageless> This process can take us into some really powerful areas.
Buster> I do too, that is why I asked.
Jack> Hi Ageless, great phone coaching session with you!
Jack> Ageless, what are some of the really powerful areas you're thinking of when you made that comment?
Ageless> Thanks, I got a LOT out of it.
Ageless> I was referring to the role of Spirit energy and how that gets awakened in us.
Ageless> And when awakened, its affects.
Jack> What kind of effects have you been noticing, Ageless?
Ageless> I am a student of Shamanism, so it really clicked for me.
Drew> Ooh Ageless, you're speaking my language!
Jack> Me too!
Jack> Cool!
Laly> sounds familiar
Jack> BTW, seems like both Laly and Buster are on a tight time frame for this evening, it's late out East, after all... So who'd like to have the Talking Stick?
Ageless> I believe that what we are doing is exciting the 1st and 2nd chakra. When these get excited it opens us up to the Divine. Once thats opened, one can call in ones power animals and spirit guides to assist.
Laly> (Welcome rumel)
Jack> Well said Ageless! That certainly resonates for me!
Jack> Yeah, welcome back rumel!
Buster> I am not going to be able to do this. My internet connection must be messed up. I will get to mine some other time. Good night folks. Have a good chat.
Jack> Dang! Buster how about making a post about it when you get a chance?
Jack> I'm very sorry it's not working for you! I wonder if it's due to your ISP service being slow. I think i'm getting a pretty quick response (Shaw, Canada).
Drew> See ya, Buster
Ageless> I'm going to try something else. I learned how to program LSD trips. I will try this before my next KSMO.
Buster> Will do.
Ageless> So long Buster. Have a good one.
Laly> Nite Buster
Drew> Programmed LSD?
Jack> Thanks Buster! Have a good one! (or good MANY!) :D
Drew> :eek:
Ageless> You bet.
Laly> hmmm.. I think I know what Ageless means...
Ageless> It involves setting the intention. Which is what shamans do.
Drew> Oh, do tell!
rumel> Ageless – were you in the Bay area in the late 60’s early 70’s? Have you read Carlos Casteneda?
Ageless> LSD trips are programed 24 hours ahead of the trip. The entire trip is reviewed so that you know what to expect will happen -- you set the intention for it to happen.
Ageless> rumel, yes and yes
Drew> What if you've NEVER had a 'real' experience with LSD?
Ageless> TRips were here in Minnesota, not California.
rumel> Cool, I’m with you.
Ageless> My shaman training tells me it will still work.
Ageless> Almost everything a shaman does is by using intent.
Laly> I agree Ageless
Jack> imho, the ecstatic states that can be entered through the KSMO portal are quite shamanic.
Jack> I used a non-LSD shamanic practice to discover KSMO in the first place!
Ageless> A shaman sets the intension, and then WAITS for it to happen.
rumel> Jack please expand upon that!
Laly> OH I agree with that ... sound familiar Drew?
Ageless> Absolutely Jack. That is what was developing in this mornings chat
Jack> Yeah, I agree ageless!
Jack> Rumel, stand by and I'll see if I can come up with a search phrase that will point you to a description. I've discussed it a number of times in the Forum over the years. :) Thanks for asking!
Ageless> THIS STUFF IS POWERFUL!
Ageless> And healing.
Drew> :)
Laly> and life changing too.
Ageless> Ive noticed that already. I love it.
Drew> How long have you been 'practicing', Ageless?
Ageless> Laly -- have you experienced spirit pulse yet? Its neat. Its slightly slower than our heart pulse.
Ageless> About 5 years.
Drew> Oh kewl!
Laly> oh yes...many times-- tonite in fact
Jack> [ Rumel use this link for an early version: http://tinyurl.com/multipleorgasmtriggerdiscover1 ]
Ageless> ALL RIGHT!!!!:)
Laly> that is what I was going to share with you tonite
Ageless> PLease share it with the others. I want to hear about it to.
Jack> [ Rumel, you can use the Google Site Search Tool here and put this phrase in quotes: "how I discovered" ]
Ageless> My spirit pulse tends to still be chaotic. I need to work on it.
Jack> [ FYI Ageless practice of spirit pulse: 5 years, KSMO: 3 months! :) ]
Drew> Thanks for the clarification.
Laly> if i may??
Drew> Where can I find out more about the 'spirit pulse'?
Jack> < Drew y/w!
Jack> Meanwhile, I do believe that Laly has requested the Talking Stick! :)
Ageless> Good question. I learned it from an individual who had level 4 skin cancer and given 2 months to live. He refused all treatment here and went to India (about 15 plus years ago). He is healed and healthy now using spirit pulse amongs other things.
Ageless> For starters. RElax and be open. Find your heart pulse. Now feel for another pulse along with it. It may just be twitching in muscles at first, but it will come together.
Drew> Wow, interesting!
Ageless> I thank the pulse is the pulse (heart beat) of my Spirit mother.
Ageless> Laly -- come on in. What has been your experience of it?
Jack> Wow that's quite an insight, Ageless!
Ageless> Correction -- try I thank, not I thank
Laly> am patient Ageless...was waiting for all questions to be answered :)
Laly> earlier I 'felt' the overwhelming urge to lay down and meditate
Laly> as my breathing and heart rate slowed
Laly> i felt my 'energies' begin to rise and also felt something come lay beside me
Laly> my White Tiger returned :)
Laly> my animal spirit guide
Laly> and I began to weep
Laly> joy filled my heart and my body "sang" with love
Drew> Ageless, I believe I've got it... When you engage the "Spirit Pulse" you can't do any 'thinking' because you too busy 'thanking'! ;)
Ageless> I hear you. Fantastic.
Ageless> You connected
Drew> I'm just going on what you typed earlier... :rolleyes:
Laly> yes :)
Laly> (i saw it too Drew but didnt comment on the slip)
Ageless> Great catch Drew
Laly> as much as I would love to stay longer -- i have to work in the morning :(
Laly> when i get the chance I'll blog this experience tonite
Ageless> Good night Laly -- great talking to you -- and thanks for sharing.
Laly> thank you Ageless for allowing me to share
Laly> Sweet Dreams to all
rumel> Laly – as Dorothy said “Lions, Tigers and Bears, Oh My…” You have a very powerful spirit guide, one of the few predators on earth known to hunt and kill men, please be careful exercising your power, for even a playful tiger can unintentionally cause grave harm.
rumel> Good night and purring dreams to you!
Ageless> Its been a long and interesting day for me. I think its time for me to sign off also. So long everyone
tandello> Jack earlier today you commented that one should only touch one point during a cycle of the technique. Is one cycle... one repitition of the sound..., or one twenty minute session?
Drew> Bye, Ageless... Sweet Dreams!
rumel> Bona sera, Ageless.
Jack> Sweet Dreams, likewise, Ageless!
Jack> Thanks Laly!
Jack> Tandello, one cycle is one cycle of the single touch, Key Sound, two to four relaxing breaths.
tandello> thank you.
Jack> y/w :)
tandello> Since our phone conversation a few weeks ago, there has been a definite shift in the quality of experiences.
Jack> Who else would like the Talking Stick, or has a question or comment?
Jack> Tandello, that is GREAT to hear! How would you describe the before and after?
tandello> Getting the tonal quality of the sound right seems to be creating a deeper well of energy.
tandello> Now when running the tq there is is still some discomfort due to the intensity of the echo effects.
Jack> I would say that well is there, you were born with it, and that the KEY Sound when correctly articulated, better helps you UNLOCK the energy! :) Just my POV... :D
Jack> When the discomfort begins to occur, just revert to relaxing breathing only. That is, don't keep amplifying it with more touches and Key Sounds, until you move back
tandello> However, the discomfort is due to more energy flowing through than I know how to integrate.
Jack> into a comfort zone... that is, until the Echo Effects once again become pleasurable AND enjoyable.
tandello> I agree the well has always been there.
tandello> The curious thing about the discomfort is that it is always accompanied by pleasure.
tandello> Even when I stop to relax for a few breaths, quiet my system down, the intensity returns with just one to two cycles.
Jack> Cool! RE: The Well always having been there. I think it's actually the COSMIC well from which we drink. It's fractal and infinite. Yeah, it takes time to integrate this new energy, so just pace yourself, by reverting to just relaxing breathing with no stim or KS till you're able to enjoy the waves again. :)
Jack> I hear you tandello! DEFINITELY what Abe Maslow would refer to as an example of a Higher Level Gripe! Of course, he was being facetious about the Gripe part. :D
Jack> Facetious and ironic.
tandello> Can we talk about the semantics of experience for a moment?
Jack> Sure, it's Open Mike... anything you like!
tandello> There is a point I
tandello> There is a point of experience during sex when a traditional orgasm occurs when the pleasure increases dramatically. During this moment there pleasure is clear. There is also an experience in which there is a simultaneous pain associated with there being too much pleasure.
tandello> This too much pleasure is similar to those poignant moment in movies, when I am moved to tears over a touching scene. There is an opening of the heart and an awareness in which the heart isn't capable of opening up enough to handle to love that wants to be expressed.
Jack> That totally resonates with my experience, Tandello!
tandello> Sexual climax has this same quality. there is pleasure that is more than I can handle in the amount of time that the body typically allows for the experience.
tandello> Intellectually I have been interpreting this in two ways.
Jack> The 19th century French poet Charles Baudelaire spoke eloquently about that paradoxical boundary at which extreme pain and extreme pleasure seem to be VERY similar!
Jack> Pls continue!
tandello> One is that my heart/mind/spirit is not capable of being that open. It requires identification with a narrower sense of self to prevent from losing individuality in that moment.
tandello> The the second part of this first understanding is that there is a deep fear tied to that potential loss. I have seen something similar come up when some people are first learning meditation.
tandello> Often people will feel themselves relaxing dramatically and the body feels as if it is falling.
Jack> YES! That is what I coined in the phrase Terror At The Gates!
tandello> Others will say that they felt as if they were dying.
tandello> Fear comes up and the transcending process stops.
Jack> Imho it's also related to a primal fear of the loss of Self-Identity when confronted with the seeming Infinity of the Cosmic Orgasmic Well - of the Thousand Petalled Lotus.
tandello> The other explanation is that the nervous system has to adapt to a newer style of function because it cannot support the potential breadth or depth of the experience.
rumel> Tandello – It seems to me you are in fact handling it well, you are still completely sane, being empathically endowed is a wonderful gift. The sense of loss is the pain associated with the death of the ego, but the ego rebuilds itself anew from the ashes like a phoenix.
Jack> I think the transcending only stops if you don't recognize the roadsign. And if you don't trust that what is happening is OK.
Jack> And I agree 100% with rumel's comment!
Jack> Trance-ending!
tandello> This is one of the reasons that the KSMO seems in principle and practice to be so right on. It is simple and allows for direct shifting of quality of experience.
Jack> Trance End, Dance!
Jack> I'm very glad you feel that way!
Jack> Needless to say, I agree! :)
rumel> Trance Form Anew
tandello> But the recognition of the roadsigns needs to be understood on two levels. One is, 'Oh, yes. This is a ossible experience' . this is how we handle it.
tandello> The other is that the body needs to learn it, and know intuitively what the experience is and how to handle it.
tandello> Since modifying the sound my body has been much more involved with allowing the experience to flow more naturely.
Jack> [ VERY interesting slip... an ossible experience... one that has bones, a skeleton, a structure, a coherent organization! ]
tandello> And the experience is having itself. This feels much much better.
Jack> That's a VERY good sign when you say the experience is having itself!
Jack> It is happening THROUGH you... You are its VESSEL yet it has a life, and existence of its own! NOW yer cookin' Brother! :D
Jack> That's REALLY WONDERFUL AND WONDER FULL, Tandello!
rumel> Tandello – Personally I think the body already knows these things to the ‘bone’, it is just our minds needing to learn to let the body lead us.
tandello> So the thinking part of my mind is understanding how the extended orgasm and deeper involvement during sex could develop and happen.
tiphereth> Magic do as you will.
tandello> I strongly disagree.
artform> through-the-body travel
tandello> Walking is intrinsic to most of humanity, however, it must be modeled by our parents for it to be expressed.
tandello> There are families of people who walk on all fours because of family traditions.
Jack> Seems like the latter example goes more to modelling than the former.
Jack> They were modelled to walk on all fours.
tandello> Transcendence and the developement of higher states of conscousness are recognized by mulitple masters as the refinement of the physiological mechanisms of consciousness.\
Jack> Pan troglodytes, the common chimp, is a knuckle dragger, but Pan paniscus, the sexy Bonobo chimp, naturally walks upright. (these two Pans are our closest genetic relatives btw).
tandello> It would seem like the latter is more related to modeling primarily because it is so different from how most of us have learned to ambulate. We tend to think that what we see the most is intrinsically natural.
Jack> Who was pan paniscus emulating?
tiphereth> Us. but whho were we emulating.
rumel> “I may not be a smart man, but I know what love is.” – Forrest Gump
tandello> There may be factors of anatomy and physiology that would lead us to walking upright. However, nuture can dissuade nature from its natural course.
Jack> Or pithecanthropus erectus?
tandello> Capacities are one thing. How we nurture those capacities is another.
Jack> Pan paniscus was walking upright before the appearance homo sapiens (sic).
tandello> If transcendence is normal, why do we have to learn it.
tandello> If language is normal, why do we have to learn how to speak?
tiphereth> It's aliens jack . )
tandello> If vergal communication is so normal, why do we speak so many different languages?
Drew> I think the process is more akin to 'unlearning'.
Jack> We just have to learn lexicon, not actually how to vocalize.
tandello> Its all normal, but the expression varies significantly.
Jack> Re: so many different languages, I'd say because it's natural to continue to variegate... why is there more than one color or shape of flower?
artform> re; transcendence: a) We are radically socialized to treat it as fairy tales or fearful.
tandello> the impetus to life and growth is all around. THis is nature. Nurture will determine how life is expressed. This is the nature of evolution.
Jack> yep I agree.
rumel> Nurture may mean selective selection which leads to evolution.
artform> ...yet b) so suppressed, we seek it in trivial and commodified passing satisfactions everywhere.
tandello> selective selection? I'm not familiar with this term.
rumel> Oops I meant - Nurture may mean selective reproduction which leads to evolution.
tiphereth> This is all because of a scar upon the human race. Its kinda like the Dark Crystal ...something was broken in the past. We have ben trying to fix it ever since.
tandello> Yeah. That's why I think that in human consciousness it is the mind that really leads towards evolution in matters of spirit more than the body.
tandello> The body may know things 'in the bone'. But the body is much more driven by survival needs. The monkey often times is just the expression of the fears, drives, and compulsions of the body.
artform> ...everywhere but within, and on through to everything.
tandello> KSMO works not because the body wants to go here.
artform> Tandello, could we now be moving through a reintegration of body/mind, after the scar of the Cartesian surgery?
tandello> The mind creates intention and through practice creates space to cultivate the possibility of a diffenrent experience. I think the body would be comfortable with humping and squirting.
Jack> Body and mind are one and the same.
Jack> Energy.
artform> Our intestinal tract is our second brain and the seat of what dimensions of mind?
artform> The second brain has as many neurons as the first, and what links?
tandello> I think that the belief that most paradigms regarding the nature of mind and body are flexible.
tandello> Sort of like light being both a wave and a particle.
rumel> I completely agree that the mind creates intention but it is the body that does the humping and squirting, the pleasure occurs when harmony exists in an integrated individual.
tandello> Mind body concepts in my mind are best held in a way that allows for quick and flexible shifts of perspective.
artform> Some suggest, even as a joyful teasing metaphor, that we are merely the walking architectural colonial home of the vast communities of mitochondria that inhabit each of us. They find it more efficient to allow us the illusion of "oneness", of ego...
tandello> With regards to our sexuality, it is the learning that there are other potential experiences and that it is possible to change our intention and attention to allow/create a bodily change. We attend to our changing experiences in body and then change our intentions.
tandello> Fun and boggling.
tandello> where is that stuff of consciousness amidst all that protoplasmic stuff?
rumel> A nimble mind and agile body are a beautiful combination, you can easily change your mind but you can’t easily change your body.
tandello> So true.
artform> Bucky Fuller called each of us a pattern integrity...
artform> a slip knot as matter slips through the pattern on average every 7 years...
artform> that is as our cells completely renew all of our materiality every 7 years...
artform> so are we mind through matter, or matter through mind?
Jack> Does it matter? Do you mind?
rumel> Right on artform! It is the dymaxion house of our DNA blueprint!
artform> Exactly!
tandello> .Whenever I offered my son a choice between A and B, somehow he always chose C or D. We limit the conversation with, is it this or is it that?
rumel> Why stop at D?
artform> re; Jack. Nice one rumel!
tiphereth> Thats a gypsy trick anyway.
tandello> gypsy trick?
rumel> I like gypsies!
artform> It goes as far as G. It's all music anyway.
tiphereth> Is it this or that.
artform> 21st Century? It's BOTH/AND.
artform> Radical reintegration already well underway.
Drew> < makes a gentle KS to remind himself he HAS a body! :rolleyes:
tandello> love that sound!
Drew> < was feeling a little cut-off at the neck.
tiphereth> Jack are you familiar with astral projection? Can you do it?
rumel> Tandello – Personally I think the body already knows these things to the ‘bone’, it is just our minds needing to learn to let the body lead us. It is our mind that gets in the way of allowing us to reach the ecstatic orgasmic state at will and it is the mind that allows to reach the ecstatic state at will. The body already knows how it needs to respond to get to the orgasmic state.
Jack> I'm not sure!
Jack> re: astral projection.
Jack> I hear ya Drew!
Drew> I'm with you, Rumel.
artform> Jack, what have you always said about mind noise?
artform> Right on rumel!
tandello> THe capacity is in the body. But sex is far to powerful for the body to go there on its own. You won't find people going here without deliberate training.
Jack> Um, what HAVE I always said about Mind Noise, artform?
tandello> Mind noise is an issue. but most mind noise comes from the body.
Jack> I think mind noise comes from enculturation, I don't personally believe it's our true nature. I think it's learned behavior.
artform> Respectfully disagree T, most comes from pervasive aggressive socialization.
tiphereth> Can you gove me an example of this mind noise?
rumel> Huh? Wouldn’t that then be body noise?
Drew> < body makes an armpit fart :D
tiphereth> :mad: and how does that affect the mind? :eek:
Jack> Nice one Drew! The Trickster is one of my favorite shamanic forms!
tandello> Chopra suggest that we have about 60,000 thoughts per day. Most of those thoughts are obsessed with comparing today with yesterday, you with me, and one desire with another. Most of these thoughts are survival oriented.
artform> society says: THAT BAD!:mad:
Drew> All based on the belief that the universe is a dangerous place; what if it's NOT?
tandello> most communication with others forms a similar function. its all comparison and judgement. Are you safe or not safe.
tiphereth> Oh..I see wht you mean now. Thats the MAtrix :)
artform> yes T, survival in society for most of us now, not nature...
Drew> I think you'll find safety is an INTERNAL experience.
artform> T=tandello
tiphereth> I knew.
tandello> Safety depends on knowing or feeling if we are aligned with those around us or nonaligned. Do we agree about the weather, sports or politics.
tandello> do we believe in the same god?
rumel> Computers may operate on that type of binary logic thinking but humans really don’t!
artform> Or is it security that is the core internal experience?
rumel> Computers may operate on that type of binary logic thinking but humans really don’t!
Drew> I couldn't disagree more, Tandello.
tandello> Most of out thinking is about finding enough points of consistency between what we think about the world around us and what it thinks about us.
Drew> Yes, Artform... YES!
tiphereth> GodAuthority)... man compliance security
rumel> We can never really know what the world thinks of us.
Drew> Be STILL and know that I AM God!
tandello> Ulitimately, it is an internal experience, but there is a significant portion of that internal experience that is based upon external observations. A lot of what is on the inside is from the outside.
tandello> We can never really know what we think of ourselves.
tandello> What we know of ourselves is just as reliable/unreliable as what we know of the world.
Drew> That's not really true for me, Tandello... It's a pretty strong illusion, I'll give you that.
tiphereth> I dont get that . How can we not know our own selves?
rumel> Reverse god and you have Fido next door, he’s not in existential angst.
tandello> Just read a book on the great philosophers, religions, or whatever. You will find that there is a great confusion about all these areas. How often do you have difficulty making up your own mind? How often do you sit in your own unhappiness? Most of us do not know ourselves well and spend a lifetime trying toknow our ownminds and hearts.
tandello> This not knowing is a source of great unhappiness and much interpersonal strife.
artform> The more mrs. a and I have experienced the alignment with these energies and the universal/multiversal resonance tides, the less the attacking minutiae are of much consequence by comparison.
tiphereth> i just think alot of our angst somes from not accepting things or trying to change things. The Will is bound.
rumel> T- I couldn’t agree more with that, but that’s why I am seeking further enlightenment and not getting hung up about the confusion.
artform> This may seem like detachment but the distance is no greater, just the perspective!
tandello> I think Alfred E. Newman had it right, 'What, me worry!'
artform> tandello, you are primarily referring to western philosophers, no? The east has some interesting alternative approaches, yes?
tandello> I'm referring to all philosophers.
tiphereth> Know Thyself.
rumel> Or Bobby McFarrin – “Don’t worry, Be Happy”
Drew> Now THAT'S philosophy!
tandello> They all claim something. Ultimately, in my mind, they are all describing patterns of thinking and experincing of different regions of the brain.
Jack> [ Thanks everyone for your thoughts on ALL of these subjects tonight. I'm going to quietly excuse myself at this time... The ChatBox of course remains open 24/7... Have a GREAT week! Wishing each of you and yours ALL the best that life has to offer!
Jack> ]
tandello> Yeah, baby. love bobyb McFarrin. The ultimate reduction of all healthy philosphies and religions.
artform> But the east directly recognized and addressed the dilemma.
Drew> I'm with you, JJ... Past my bedtime.
rumel> Jack – I’ll bet you’re sitting there grinning aren’t you?
artform> Goodnight and thanks Jack!
rumel> Thanks Jack for the links, I’ll check them out after the Chat.
Drew> Night all.
artform> Goodnight ALL and thanks!
tandello> Yes, its well past time for the angel train in my part of the world. Good night all.
tiphereth> Night Jack Drew.
tiphereth> Heh, Good night everyone.
rumel> Ciao All! I Gotta split, thanks for the lively discussion.
Laly> Hi rumel
rumel> Hi Laly, How are you.
rumel> I've just been doing some reading here, feeling my way around the site a bit, but very frustrated by having to repeatedly login despite the remember button.
rumel> Is there any help file for navigating this site?
artform> Hi rumel! Sorry to have missed you here. Here is the link to the Glossary http://www.multiples.com/howtolastlo...ry-suggestions
Buster> Hey Artform. How's your Sunday?
artform> Hi Buster! Good thanks, but too long a meeting earlier and too long on this machine! How about you?
artform> Rumel, here is the Milestines link: http://www.multiples.com/howtolastlo...es-suggestions
Buster> I am trying to post my first question here and as usual, I am having a tough time of it.
artform> Question in the chatbox or where?
Buster> In the Lounge actually.
artform> Do you want to start a new thread?
Buster> It took it. If you have some immediate comments, I am all ears. But if you are tired (which it sounds like) I certainly understand.
artform> Or post to an existing one?
Buster> I just started a new thread in the Lounge.
artform> Which thread did you post in just now?
Buster> Titled "Buster's got questions - please indulge him"
artform> Will go there now and take a look.
Buster> Maybe you have to reload (F5) the page to see it.
artform> No it came up for me just like any other and you are the current headliner on the index page for that section!
artform> Good questions too!
Buster> Any thoughts on it?
Buster> You know, I kind of miss seeing that Avatar of yours over here.
artform> I tried to load it but Jack has the avatar switch off. He offered to turn it on but I said no, that's OK.
artform> Maybe avatars will be called for here sometime too.
artform> Have you seen the horizontally bloated version of it at Tao Bums?
artform> I need to do a custom Photoshop job on it to fit the TTB image format!
Buster> Yes I have, it has taken on a different form over there.
Buster> I don't have photoshop. That is probably why I really dont do avatars.
artform> Soon to change!
Buster> How often do you practice KSMO Artform?
artform> I use the Key Sound with mrs. a primarily because we are quite active. I personally re-enforce with the repeated caress/soundings when I am doing my therapy relaxed in the deep hot tub.
Buster> Sounds nice and relaxing. I appreciate the feedback Artform. If you can think of anything else that you think might help, drop me a PM over at Aneros. Take it easy my friend and have a great night.
Buster> Oh hey Rumel.
artform> Thanks Buster, will do.
artform> Hi rumel!
Buster> Hey Rumel, I actually posted a question tonight on this forum.
Buster> I am checking out. Will chat later.
artform> Take care Buster.
rumel> Hi artform, how are you doing these days?
artform> Great rumel. And you?
rumel> Pretty good, but I'm having the problems as Buster, posting here is difficult.
rumel> Every time I try to move to a different Forum I have to log back in, this stinks!
artform> I'm sorry you are having the difficulties. I have a generally easy experience here, none of the those sorts of problems. On a Mac using Safari.
rumel> I really want to be able to communicate within this community but the chat box is the only thing that is working for me now.
artform> Even for me there are a few quirks, but they are not intrusive, like your situation.
rumel> I am even using Firefox as a Browser as recommended but alas it is no better than I.E.6.
artform> The great thing is that we could agree to meet here in the chatbox at agreed times for discussions.
artform> That really is a concern if Firefox isn't an improvement.
rumel> That can be difficult, but perhaps possible.
artform> Would Opera work any better?
rumel> I know nothing about 'Opera'
artform> Opera is another browser.
rumel> BTW, thanks for the info. page link.
rumel> It would be nice if Aneros had a chat forum like this, maybe we should flood 'support' asking for it!
artform> You're most welcome! Glad to help. I really look forward to your discussion here as you get settled in comfortably.
artform> Agree re Aneros and a chatbox.
rumel> I did read a couple of Jack's previous chat sessions and was amazed at how much congruity of philosophies we have.
artform> Right. There are some wonderful chats covering many phenomena.
rumel> I think I will really appreciate the more spiritual leaning this forum seems to have, if I can ever figure out how to navigate her.
artform> Agreed. I hope your problems with navigation and stability cal be resolved very soon!
artform> "can be"
Ageless> Hi artform and rumel -- how goes it?
rumel> Interesting 'slip' I meant to type here but typed 'her', Hi Ageless!
artform> Hi Ageless!
rumel> Ageless, are you a practicing shaman?
artform> Sorry to have missed most of the second chat here yesterday.
Ageless> Great having you two on the chat yesterday.
rumel> Thanks, it was fun.
artform> The chats here are usually great; very stimulating and a hoot to boot!
Ageless> Yes, I am in a limited way. Have a monthly drumming circle (Shaman) here every month. Go to 2 or three shaman gatherings a year.
rumel> The second chat did get a little heated.
Ageless> I use Shaman ways a lot though.
artform> How far back did your interest and then practice begin Ageless?
Ageless> I started to feel uneasy -- like I was pushing shaman -- Sorry
Ageless> I would say it goes back at least ten years.
rumel> No need to feel sorry, I have been fascinated with the possibilities after reading some of Castenda's books.
artform> Hard to push too much on things shamanic with Jack though. I too think it is a key related tradition for learning/exploring mindwork.
Ageless> I suggest you do read them. Many of the things he does are possible -- maybe all of them.
artform> It sounds as though your KSMO practice is advancing very well Ageless.
Ageless> Artform -- as you say, we ARE all connected.
artform> It is such an energetic magnet!
Ageless> It is, but in fits and spurts. I hit plateaus where things are sort of oh hum,
rumel> I am reluctant to re-engage the use of hallucinogens, as practiced by Don Juan but the zen approach appeals to my mind these days.
Ageless> Ive had some really powerful experiences 20 - 30 years ago that told me I (we) are far more than what we think we are.
rumel> Yes!
Ageless> Even Castenda says drugs are not needed. He only used them to show C that the worls as he knew it wsa not complete.
rumel> I just wish I could get my mind to get around and into it better without artificial stimulants.
Ageless> He needed what he thought was reality smashed.
rumel> That is why KSMO is so appealing, it may allow me to get to that higher plane of understanding without damaging my body.
artform> I think that is truly a potential rumel.
Ageless> Go to an intro Shaman workshop some weekend. It will get you started -- and you will be surprised
Ageless> I believe KSMO will get you there.
rumel> Now there's a journey in itself - finding a shaman workshop.
artform> The Key Sound has opened or reopened the access to these energies for me at a hugely liberating and generalized powerful level.
Ageless> Everything a Shaman does is done with intent. After intent, he waits for it to happen.
Ageless> I will find one for you. Where do you live?
rumel> It is good to hear that you think KSMO will get me there, I live in Sacramento, CA.
Ageless> OK -- I will let you know.
artform> The Key Sound is an amplifier and "thrust director" as in energy "jet" thrust. As you say linking energies and intention.
Ageless> After the intro, you will get access to multiple others.
artform> All the best guys. I have to bow out now. It is great to be able to meet here for chats like this.
rumel> Bye artform, we will reconnect again!
Ageless> BY artform -- before you go, i am amazed at the multiple things you are into -- and mrs a. GREAT
Ageless> Anything else I can help you with this evening Rumel?
Ageless> If not, I will sign off to.
rumel> Your statement about "intro" and "others" was a bit cryptic, is that intentional?
rumel> How will you let me know of a workshop?
Ageless> No. There are many things shamans do like soul retrieval, healing, etc. Specific classes will be offered.
Ageless> I can try to let you know here on this page, or even send you an Email. How do you want to do it. I also coulsd leave a comment on your last blog.
Ageless> I thank I can.
Ageless> I think I can
rumel> Why don't you leave me a Private Message over on the Aneros Forum, I don't want to post my email address here on an open forum.
rumel> I have the same user name over there.
Ageless> OK -- I will try. If I am unsuccessful, I will find you somehow here.
Ageless> There is a way to send messages on this site also. Jack showed me how yesterday, but am not sure I remember how.
rumel> OK, that sounds good, take care and have a pleasant evening.
Ageless> You too Rumel.
rumel> I assumed you were a member of the Aneros community?
rumel> If not it is easy to register and its free.
rumel> You need to be a member to post PM's.
Ageless> I was a member -- will try to remember my log in.
Jack> Ageless, to be sent password reminder help for the Aneros website, just click this link.
Ageless> Rumel -- I left you a message on Aneros. Let me know here if you get it
Ageless> Rumel -- I am going to leave you a message on this site also. Let me know if you get it.
Ageless> Thanks Jack -- Same there as here.
artform> Hi Ageless. How are you tonight?
artform> Oops!, as I entered that comment/question, your name disappeared from the chatbox list!... maybe next time!
rumel> Ageless I have not received any messages from you on the Aneros site or here, perhaps I don't know where to look. Every time I move to a different forum here I have to log in again. This is just too frustrating, it seems the only thing that I have ready access to is this chat box. I guess I am not going to be visiting as often as I had hoped, I appreciate your efforts in trying to contact me. Maybe it is just not meant to happen for me at this site.
rumel> It is a real shame too, because the vibes I'm getting from the participants is very positive. I don't know what I can do to improve the situation.
rumel> I can't find any mechanism for sending Private Messages on this site, perhaps someone who knows could post the procedure if one exists.
rumel> Ageless - I've sent you my email adress via PM over on the Aneros Forum.
Ageless> Hi Rumel. You shouldn't ahve to log in each time. I don't. OrgasmWiki has its own log in name etc. Jack set it up so that it is the same as for everything else, but still have to do it. When You sign in, be sure to check the small box after your name, or you will have to log in each time. If this doesn't work, let Jack Know. Something is wrong.
Ageless> I will find out about private messages on this site. I know how to do it. In fact, I tried it with you yesterday.
rumel> Hey tiphereth - I left you a PM over on the Aneros Forum.
mog> Hi rumel - I replied (I think) to your PM over ar Aneros: did you receive it?
mog> The Aneros PM system is new to me so I'm not very sure of how touse it. i also spotted a PM from Buster that he sent last November!
mog> Are you now able to post here at KSMO OK?
Jack> Hi Rumel... in your introductory blog post you mentioned a recording and spelled it as HypnAerosession. Is that the correct spelling or should it be HypnAnerosession? If the latter is correct would you please edit your post so our Search Engine will index it correctly and people will be able to find it? Thanks!
rumel> Hi Jack, Thanks for the close scrutiny but the spelling I gave (“HypnAerosession") is correct. I wanted to make sure that I didn’t infringe upon the copyright/trademark of the Aneros company or product name, but I did want it close so people could make the association with their product.
rumel> Hi mog, Yes, I received your PM over on the Aneros Forum. So far, since I’ve reconfigured my security settings to allow “cookies” for this site, I seem to be able to post OK. I left a message at your personal file here.
Ageless> Hi Jack. Can members of Multiples send and receive personal messages? I know how to send them, but I doubt if very many members know how. And if allowed, where are they received?
Ageless> Rumel -- how do I access PM on the Aneros site? I received yours and thought I had responded. Apparently I did not do it right. And you mentioned cookies on the security age. Was this on the Aneros site?
rumel> Ageless - are you still online?
Ageless> Hi Rumel -- I am here now. Sorry. Iwas on the Aneros site. Sent you an Email on this.
rumel> Ageless - I just sent you a PM over there and a follow up email.
Ageless> Rumel -- OK. I will get on it. Thanks
Ageless> Its great talking to you!!!!!!!!!!!!:):):):D
Jack> Ageless and rumel, just click on the username to send a message.
Jack> Warm Welcome to Newest Newbie caesargus! Hey caesargus, start your Blog, post you Key Sound™ sample in the FREE Private Validation area, and come to the Chats I personally host to learn this skill the fastest!
Ageless> Jack -- If I send a message to rumel where does the message show up? Will it show up on the chat window or will it only show up in my a secure location he has to "sign in" to get access? I think privacy is sometimes required or at least desired. Messages between rumel and myself are secure on the Aneros web site.
Jack> Ageless, the link I gave you is not completely private.
Jack> Due to the nature of our subject matter and for the mutual protection of users, it's my policy not to support completely private messaging in this Forum.
Session stop: Thu Sep 11 08:38:41 2008