Session start: Sat Aug 16 23:01:12 2008
Jack> Latest chat transcript is available here : Multiple Orgasm Trigger(tm) Discussion ChatBox Transcript of 20080815
Jack> Helloooo Mog!
mog> Hello Jack! Just done a reply to even. How are things with you?
mog> A quick hello though! I'm just off to cook the evening meal!
Jack> Thanks Mog! Bon Appetit and NICE POST REPLY!
Jack> Hello BCDude and Emmett!
Emmett> Hello Jack, how are you today?
Jack> Very well, thanks! I'm glad you posted your Key Sound at last. I'm giving it a listen right now.
Emmett> I posted a keysound to the evaluation page and was looking for it this morning but can't find it now. I was wondering if you would get a chance to evaluate it for me?
Emmett> Never mind, I see you are already doing that.
Jack> Yes give me just a few moments and we'll be able to discuss it.
Emmett> No problem. I am glad to have caught you here this morning. I wasn't going to get on the then thought, Hey, may as well. This will make for really fast feedback.
Jack> Yes!
Jack> Ok, may we discuss the Key Sound here in the public chat area or do you want all of the comments private in the validation area?
Emmett> I suppose that discusing it here is fine. Any of my Problems should be able to help others later, right?
Jack> Yes, that's quite correct! I just posted a brief reply in the validation area. Bottom line: your Key Sound™ articulation sounds fine!
Jack> I am concerned though
Jack> about your mention of tensing up, trying to hold the energy in your groin area.
Jack> I'm wondering why you decided to do that?
Emmett> I didn't really decide to do that. I just noticed in the process that I had a tendency toward being a little tense in the PC area and legs, pulling toes back and that is when
Emmett> I got the best feelings, but then I would try to relax more and most of the "pre-orgasmic" feelings that were there, would go away.
Emmett> If the sound seems right, I am wondering also why all the "automatic" effects aren't coming?
Emmett> or maybe they are but I am just not tuned in enough?
Jack> Ok, thanks for letting me know that. Let's review the rest of the Protocol:
Jack> Are you using the single touch or caress of an erotically responsive area?
Emmett> Yes, the protocol. I do try to use a single touch or caress, but
Emmett> but it seems that I have a hard time feeling turned on or sexy from this one caress. Sometimes
Emmett> even several don't give that feeling that the LTA in breath comes with.
Emmett> So I just do the keysound after, without the LTA in breath, that I can tell anyway, and the best feelings seem to come
Jack> What is LTA?
Emmett> right after the keysound and on the next breath or two.
Emmett> Then they seem to go away by the next key sound. LTA= larger than average.
Emmett> I thought that I had seen that acronym on here before. Sorry
Jack> No problem at all! :)
Jack> You probably did. I just needed a reminder. :)
Jack> Ok, I think the issue may have something to do with expecting to feel more turned on each time.
Jack> Then maybe getting a little anxious when that expectation is not fulfilled.
Emmett> I guess my problem is the erotic sensations don't seem to build like they should. Sometimes they are there and othertimes not.
Emmett> I try to be patient and unassuming. I try not to expect anything, and just be open to whatever happens.
Emmett> But, mayber I have more subconscious things blocking feelings than I might realize?
Jack> Yes, I can understand how that is frustrating! Actually, the Echo Effects being sometimes there and sometimes not is quite typical in the early stages!
Emmett> So, I should just continue on and wait for things to progress at their own rate?
Jack> Generally, yes that's correct. But let's talk about it a little more, OK?
Emmett> I am frustrated though, as I have had the program for 9 months now, and I would have thought that I would have gotten to some significant echoes by now.
Emmett> Hey, I am free for a while this morning and will discuss as long as you are willing.
Jack> Yes I can understand your frustration. But the 9 months thing is a bit of a trap, since as I recall, isn't this about the first time that you have asked for help?
Emmett> It seems that would be the best way to progress and I should have done this a while back.
Emmett> I was depending on my ability to copy the sound and that the other things would come.
Jack> Asking for help right away, posting the Key Sound after one week of practice, and participating in chats when able is all part of the Protocol. :)
Emmett> Yes I realize that it is a trap. There are many.
Emmett> I tend to get to the point, as others have commented, of over-analyzing everthing while practicing.
Emmett> in an attempt to not get in the traps, but maybe that is a trap itself?
Jack> I think the biggest trap you've fallen into is waiting so long to ask for help!
Emmett> Yes I realize that asking for help right away would be the proper way to go about this, but for some reason I had a hard time getting to the point of registering for the forum.
Jack> So much frustration and anxiety build up that way!
Emmett> You are probably correct. I will forget about the previous months and start fresh now, wih help. How's that for a deal?
Jack> Oh, that's a GREAT deal... I'll take it! ;)
Emmett> Yes there is a lot of frustration and anxiety built up that way. Hopefully I can let that go, and move on.
Jack> Yes! Let's keep an eye on that issue for you, OK?
Emmett> Any suggestions about how to move on? Ways to keep the overanalyzing tuned down?
Jack> Well let's take a few moments to come to perhaps an even better understanding of what's been going on.
Emmett> The hot spots. I have tried using those also, and haven't gotten much response there either.
Jack> I applaud your courage in reporting this issue, because actually I think there may be a number of people who have fallen into a similar trap!
Emmett> Yet. I wouldn't want to be using defeatist language here.
Jack> Good for you on adding the YET! :D
Jack> THAT's progress!
Emmett> I don't know if it is courage or not. I have just gotten to the point that I knew I couldn't keep going on in the same direction.
Emmett> Isn't that the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different resuluts.
Jack> Trust me, it's COURAGE! Give yourself some credit for that! Do you remember my saying that the greatest challenge to learning is not between the legs, it's between the ears?
Emmett> Yes I do seem to recall that statement, and I agree totally.
Jack> The first trap is the one of trying to get it all on your own, and not asking for help!
Emmett> I just don't know how to get past that roadblock between my ears.
Emmett> Or make it cooperate anyway.
Jack> Well it's the MAKING it happen that is also a trap!
Emmett> Well, maybe I am on my way to being past the first trap, then, as I am here now.
Jack> You keep chasing the fawn away! You keep saying Come HERE you little rascal! And off he goes!
Emmett> That's the problem though. I don't know how to keep from doing that, as when I am practicing
Jack> Yes you are EXACTLY RIGHT that you ARE INDEED getting past that first trap now!
Emmett> I am really trying to be open and relaxed, open to whatever happens.
Jack> Yes I hear you.
Emmett> When I am doing the 20 minute sessions, it seems like I get to the end of the 20 minutes
Emmett> and feel just good enought that I feel like the next one will make it better, but then it is still the same.
Emmett> I find myself being led toward the trap of longer is better and more practice will get me there.
Emmett> But I try to resist that.
Jack> The trap is the EXPECTATION that the NEXT one will MAKE it better.
Emmett> I would love to have the confirmation of the goosebumps or automatic pelvice rocking or things like that.
Jack> And then the trying to resist that, etc.
Emmett> But that is a trap in itself, isn't it? Expecting things.
Jack> Yes, I hear you Brother! I really hear the longing!
Emmett> It's just hard to do the 20 minutes with what feels like no progress and then just let it go for several days.
Emmett> If I was getting spontaneous echoes on my days off, it would make things easier, but I am not getting those, that I can tell, either.
Jack> Yeah, you're in a bit of a panic zone.
Emmett> Although, I assume that the spontaneous echoes when not practicing, come after having significant echoes while practicing?
Jack> Not necessarily!
Emmett> How so?
Jack> Danged if I know! It's just the way it seems to work!
Jack> There's a very common pattern that the stronger feelings very often - if not MOST often - tend to happen when you LEAST expect them!
Jack> It's the EXPECTATION that gets you all tangled up in your head!
Jack> THAT'S why it's so important to ask for help!
Jack> To check in here via posts AND VERY IMPORTANTLY through chats!
Jack> Where you can get some REALTIME support from me and others who've had similar experiences.
Jack> The feelings of ISOLATION really SUCK!
Emmett> I guess I just need to let go of my expectations and keep practicing. Was it Drew, I recall took 6 years to get there? I could take that long, but it seems like it will definitely be worth it when I get there.
Jack> You've brought up a LOT of feelings... a LOT of concerns... They're GUSHING out of you!
Emmett> I don't really feel isolated. With all the forum posts already, it seems like every question that could be asked
Emmett> and every situation has already been described and responded too
Emmett> it is just a matter of reading them and applying to my situation.
Jack> Well I'm VERY glad that you haven't felt isolated.
Jack> By the same token,
Emmett> Gushing? I didn't think so. But it appears that I probably have many "furballs" to work out,
Jack> I've started to reply to one or another issues that you've raised, ALL GOOD ISSUES meriting a response... and
Emmett> but they are not showing up yet in practice, as I assume, again, that those strong furball feelings come with the echoes, first, right?
Jack> before I can get it typed, here comes another! PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM NOT CRITICIZING YOU for that! I am just pointing out a PATTERN that we can LEARN from!
Jack> LOL, see what I mean?
Emmett> Sorry, I am not to used to the chat box conversations yet.
Jack> Yes, the furballs DO come rolling out, with or without Echoes!
Jack> Hey it's quite all right!
Emmett> I didn't think you were criticizing, I know that you are helping.
Jack> You have a lot built up behind the dam!
Emmett> Well, then my manifestation of furballs seems to be that nothing happens.
Jack> Thanks for the confirm that you're not feeling criticized, that you get it that I'm here to help you.
Jack> Basically the image I'm getting right now is that you have had so much frustration and I would say perhaps some fear that this isn't going to work for you... that with this chat you just need to vomit them all out and I'm here to hold your head for you while you do so! And you're doing a GREAT job of it! Get them ALL out!!! :)
Emmett> Hopefully the dam breaks sometime soon and then watch out below!
Jack> Yeah no kidding!
Emmett> I will try and get all those things out.
Jack> Well I'd say the dam broke when you posted your Key Sound™ to the validation area. When you first DID ask for help!
Emmett> To go back a little way, the fear that it wouldn't work, kept me from ordering the program almost 3 years ago when I first saw it.
Emmett> You really think? I don't feel any different yet. If anything more frustrated because you said the sound was fine, yet I still haven't "gotten there"
Emmett> Then after I saw it again at the beginning of the year, I thought, you know, what do I have to lose? When I started, the feelings I was getting were just enough to make me want to keep going.
Jack> There is no there. There is only here.
Emmett> But then here we are now.
Emmett> I suppose you are right.
Jack> That is WONDERFUL that you ACCEPTED those little feelings as ENOUGH to make you want to keep going. THAT was a HUGE turning point!
Jack> Another HUGE turning point is when you DID make contact and ask for help!
Emmett> I am dedicated to sticking this out because I look forward to the day when I can share the blissful orgasmic feelings with my wife and feel that extra special connection with her that she seems to naturally have with me already.
Jack> Dudes especially are culturally programmed to be able to do it all without asking for help... that asking for help is for sissies or something. That's a big cultural trap to transcend! Or as I like to say... to trance-end!
Emmett> It was a big step for me to ask for help as I usually feel that I can get things done on my own.
Emmett> I think that I may have some control issues, always needing to be in control.
Jack> Good one! That was a big chunk!
Jack> I'm still here, holding your head! :)
Emmett> Well, I am getting better at asking for help.
Jack> It's a VERY big cultural thing that we're supposed to be able to get it all done on our own... The Heroic Ideal. Yet the downside of the Heroic Ideal is isolation... the OPPOSITE of COMMUNITY.
Jack> Yeah! re: your getting better at asking for help!
Emmett> I know I need to release the control issues to progress, but just don't know how.
Jack> That may be a good kind of dialogue to have with your wife, as well!
Emmett> I see that in here. Everyone that has "gotten it" on the forum seems to comment that they feel more connected to others, just happier in general.
Jack> Paradoxically, the feeling of needing to know how to let go of control issues is in itself a control issue. You don't need to know how.
Emmett> I have discussed with my wife, she doesn't know how to help either.
Emmett> I am thinking back to a forum post by Beauregard. I connected with that because he seemed to have the same problems I am having.
Jack> Wow Good One, Emmett! re: seeing how people report the greater feelings of connection.
Emmett> You asked him once how often he felt joy, happiness, contentment, also anger frustration, annoyance, etc.
Jack> Yeah re: Beauregard... You are definitely not alone in dealing with these kinds of challenges!
Emmett> Well, I am tilted toward feeling the anger and annoyance and frustration more often on any given day, than feelings of joy.
Jack> Not surprising!
Emmett> I don't ever get really excited or elated about good things, just take them as they are. But frustration and annoyance really get the better of me. I am trying to work on that though.
Jack> My hunch is that UNDERNEATH the feelings of anger, annoyance, and frustration may be some feelings of sadness.
Emmett> I was hoping that this practice would also help me along that path, with releasing some of thse things and pulling me towards being happier and more loving to my friends and family.
Jack> i.e., sadness of what you are missing - the warmth of those human connections.
Emmett> I might not have agreed with the sadness a while back, but yeah, I know it is there now, I do have that sadness, mostly from seeing how I end up hurting others around me by my lack of emotions.
Emmett> At least lack of expression of good emotions.
Emmett> I express the bad ones just fine.
Jack> I don't think you lack the emotions. - ah yes, just as I wrote that, you then typed lack of expression of the positive emotions. GOOD ONE!
Emmett> You are correct though. The sadness at missing the warmth of the connections that others seem to have an easier time with.
Jack> How about this:
Jack> How about replacing the label of bad emotions with painful emotions?
Jack> Anger is an expression of pain.
Jack> We are taught to mask sadness and fear with anger.
Emmett> OK, painful emotions, then.
Emmett> Mostly the pain involved is what I inflict on my family by expressing these.
Jack> Well that's easier to admit than that you might be feeling pain for yourself, for what you've been missing.
Emmett> I am sure I do a lot of that, covering other things with anger. Then feeling angry, but not really knowing why and pinning it on some more concrete thing that is at hand.
Emmett> I know I feel pain for what I have been missing, just didn't know it until recently.
Jack> You're not alone in that!
Jack> Pain for what you've been missing is grief. It's ok to feel grief.
Emmett> A lot of my frustration now, is that I haven't progressed in my practice to the point that it can help me feel more connected to others and happier.
Emmett> I suppose that I have a hard time showing that I feel grief as well.
Jack> You suppose?
Emmett> It is very telling, but my wife once accused of me that if she died I wouldn't even cry.
Emmett> I begged to differ, that I would be very sad at that.
Emmett> I just have a hard time showing it.
Emmett> I would probably just show it through anger at something or someone.
Emmett> I do have a hard time with crying. Another one of those macho things.
Emmett> Haven't cried in many many years. I suppose that will be something that will come out in practice too.
Jack> Yep, machismo is VERY oppressive... very costly.
Emmett> I hope it does. I probably need it.
Emmett> I am just glad that I have come to the point of realizing just how costly, and I want to change.
Jack> Probably?
Emmett> OK. Definitely need it. It will take a lot more relaxing and letting things go.
Jack> re: how costly - YEAH! and re: that you want to change: Well done!!!
Emmett> I was just hoping I could get to the stage of automatic things that I can't control.
Jack> Yeah, definitely, is more like it.
Emmett> That it would just happen.
Emmett> The echoes and the feelings flowing through me to work out some of these problems.
Jack> Actually, I think we've identified some issues here that could perhaps better be addressed with some professional counseling assistance.
Jack> What the Multiple Orgasm Trigger™ practice can do is help you identify these issues - these furballs,
Jack> but these patterns may be rather deep-seated and I think you individually could benefit from some counseling on these issues.
Emmett> Well I was working on that. Professional counseling is also something that my macho self doesn't deal well with. But I was going to get an appointment with a therapist that my wife had used before.
Jack> Then at some point inviting your wife into that process so that you could do some healing of your relationship.
Emmett> I was really hoping the the MOT could bring more of them to the surface. To be more recognizable.
Jack> Was going to, or ARE going to? ;)
Emmett> I will definitely include her in the process. She is very willing to help.
Jack> Well MOT did exactly that! It DID bring them to the surface, because here we are, yes?
Emmett> Probably has know longer than I have, that I needed help. But I needed to admit it first.
Jack> She sounds like a wonderful woman and partner!
Emmett> Yes, I AM going to. I haven't already decided not to.
Jack> I'd say that's a good goal for this week!
Jack> Initiating that process!
Emmett> She is very wonderful. I love her with all my heart, just have a hard time showing it, and it hurts her often.
Jack> If you have a hard time showing it, it's most likely because somewhere along the line you got wounded in a way that pushed you into that zone of having difficulties expressing it.
Emmett> I will get that counseling help, and see where that goes. Just not sure how often I will be able to go, yet.
Emmett> Thanks for being my therapist this morning. I think it is helping just to get these things out in print.
Jack> It's not like you don't feel these feelings of love... but somewhere along the line, you got traumatized out of the natural tendency to express these emotions freely.
Jack> It's not about how often you can go, it's about what you accomplish when you DO go!
Emmett> I just wish that I knew where that was. The biggest problem is that whenever it happened,
Emmett> it probably seemed like the logical course of self protection,
Emmett> and there was no concern at the time for the problems it would cause later.
Jack> RE: being your therapist, I know you were being facetious there, as of course I am not your therapist and that's not our contract here... but I AM here to help you bring this stuff up to where you ARE ready to work with a therapist.
Jack> re: logical course. Yes that's it exactly. As the I Ching - the Chinese Book of Changes says: No Blame. Perseverance Furthers.
Emmett> Yes, somewhat facetious, but it does help to discuss and bring these things up. You are very good at helping in this way.
Jack> You are not a bad person for having adopted those patterns. It's VERY common in our culture.
Jack> Thanks re: helping. :)
Emmett> Thank you for that validation. I don't think I considered myself bad for adopting these patterns, at least not consciously.
Jack> By getting going with the counseling, AND checking in HERE re: your MOT practice, you have a WINNING combination!
Emmett> I hope so. I will be focused on that goal. Just hope it doesn't add more pressure to succeed. Now that I am making more effort to get there.
Jack> RE: adopting the patterns... No I don't think you're bad. This crap gets passed on from generation to generation. It wasn't necessarily the fault of your parents either. We're all products of our culture. The goal isn't to assess blame, the goal is to NAME the spell cast upon us and that BREAKS the spell. That's what the counseling is for.
Emmett> Interesting. I hope that it works that way for me. I will try to be open to it.
Emmett> Sorry for taking up your whole morning this way. I am sure that you have other things to get to.
Jack> And to HEAL... That statement you quoted from your wife, that if she died you wouldn't cry... That was VERY moving. That is at the crux of the matter, I think. That was not a criticism on her part, I don't think... It was a cry of desperation, a cry for help. And a heads up!
Emmett> I will look forward to the coaching chat, and hopefully I will be able to make it to that.
Emmett> I know it wasn't a criticizm on her part, maybe a little, but it was an illustration of my lack of emotion.
Jack> RE: making more effort, trying, hoping, worrying that it might not work out... Just let go of all of that mind noise, whenever you can.
Jack> It's just noise.
Emmett> To be honest, on that count, this will sound very bad...
Jack> You don't lack emotion. You have until now lacked permission to feel the emotions.
Emmett> but when I was 17, my younger brother died in a car accident, and I don't recall crying then either.
Jack> Be SURE to share that with your counselor.
Emmett> There wasn't anything to do to make things better, so why bother crying about it, right?
Emmett> I realize now that this was probably a wrong attitude but that is how it was then.
Jack> It doesn't sound bad to me, it sounds SAD to me. Somehow somewhere along the line you got taught that it was not ok to express these human emotions.
Jack> Drop the labeling about it's being a wrong attitude.
Emmett> Yes it is very sad. Just how it is/was.
Jack> All that does is make you guilty. It's not productive. It's not about wrong, it is, as you say now, sad.
Jack> You have REALLY opened up today, Emmett!
Emmett> Yes, lots of guilt there now. and sadness.
Jack> This is VERY VERY GOOD work!
Emmett> Well, thanks again for all the help this morning. I do need to get going to other things and I am sure you do too.
Emmett> I will try and be here for one of the coaching chats soon.
Jack> You are VERY welcome! And please start a Blog here to Journal, your journey as you get into the counseling process and continue this healing.
Emmett> And, I suppose, hard as it may be I might consider starting a blog in here to record my progress and have it available to help others.
Jack> There are two coaching chats this weekend. Please do come to at least one, for at least a little while.
Jack> You don't have to do therapy there, that's for your counselor, but just to check in. RE: your practice,
Jack> don't worry about getting stronger Echo Effects etc.,
Jack> just DO the practice and ALLOW whatEVER feelings come up to come up!
Emmett> I see we are thinking along the same lines. I will see if I can make it to one of the chats this weekend. Don't know if I can.
Jack> There's a good chance that during your MOT practice, some of these AUTHENTIC feelings of tears etc. may come up. If
Emmett> That will be the challenge, allowing everything to come up as it will!
Jack> they do, ALLOW THEM... don't suppress them.
Jack> Yes, that IS the challenge... the GROWING EDGE!
Jack> THAT is PROGRESS!!!
Emmett> I really want those AUTHENTIC feelings to come up. Just wonder if I will be able to recognize and allow them to happen.
Jack> WOW, VERY excellent work today, Emmett way to GO! And way to GROW!!!
Jack> Let go of wondering / worrying about being able etc.
Jack> THAT is mind noise.
Jack> It's actually a way trying to drive with your FOOT ON THE BRAKE.
Jack> You KNOW there's a big dam there with a lot of feelings built up behind it. It can be
Emmett> Thanks so much for all the suport. I hope to keep GROWING, towards a better me. Yes, driving with a foot on the brake is an apt description of how it feels sometimes.
Jack> kind of scary... That's an example of Terror at the Gates... Those are the emotional furballs built up that are now ready to begin being healed and resolved.
Jack> :)
Emmett> I know there is that dam, and I don't want it there anymore. It feels good to say that.
Jack> YEAH MAN!!!
Jack> I hope you'll share our discussion with your wife.
Jack> And DO please start a blog here to journal this journey of self-discovery.
Jack> You see where the Blogs link is don't you?
Emmett> Thanks, I will. You have a wonderful day.
Jack> It's just above where you type in stuff here for the Chat Box.
Emmett> Later.:)
Jack> If you need any help finding the link or getting started with it, just let me know by email.
Jack> Have a good one!
Emmett> Sorry, didn't want to be rude but I do need to go now. Thanks again for all the help.:D:D
Jack> You're quite welcome! You didn't seem rude to me!
Jack> Life Beckons!
Jack> Greetings airn and canuck75!
Jack> I hope you have a good day! I must now leave for another appointment. GOOD CHAT with Emmett just prior to here, btw!
Jack> Greets to Laly and to Ageless!
Jack> Ageless, did you get your posting access to the OrgasmWiki all set up to your liking?
Jack> Laly, did you get the email I sent you?
Jack> BTW, Newest Newbie Emmett and I had a great impromptu coaching chat yesterday.
Jack> The transcript for it is still in the Current Chat Archives
Jack> Good Evening Mog!
Laly> hi Jack, Mog and Ageless!!!
mog> Hi Laly! I hope all is well with you.
mog> Evenin' Jack!
Jack> Evenin' Mog... I hope life continues to be fabulous for you. By your posts it appears to be!
Jack> Howdy redneck!
redneck> Hi Kack
redneck> Oops Hi Jack
Jack> ack ack, ack! ;0
Jack> How's life?
redneck> thank God its Friday
redneck> I am in real estate - so....
Jack> I hear ya! It means that tomorrow is a Live Coaching Chat day!
Jack> Good Evening Mog!
Jack> Well with real estate, aren't weekends a fairly busy time? Relatively speaking, in today's market, of course.
redneck> Hi Mog your recent post dragged me back to the website - after an absence of months, maybe a year.
Jack> VERY cool!
Jack> Mog just keeps ringin' that bell!
redneck> Yes weekends are busy. just not profitable :)
Jack> Yeah, not like the old daze, eh?
redneck> yes. Its like listening to an astronaut speak around the evening fireplace and tell of his first adventure to the moon.
redneck> mog's post , i mean not real estate
redneck> i noticed tha "mle closeness " post of years ago is still garnering attention.
redneck> mle = male
Jack> Yes, indeed it is!
redneck> wowo Jack this website has triluy morphed into something even more beautiful and full of energy
redneck> i have thought about editing soem of my hastily written comments of yesteryear. but the time keeps me form editing and clarifying
redneck> jack good talking' to ya'all. i got to mow the lawns before dark.
Jack> Yeah! Next time you're in, also
Jack> feel free to put Gold Nugget in any of the threads that you find particularly helpful,
Jack> along, with keywords and key phrases saying what it's about. That way
Jack> they'll show up on the Gold Nuggets - Success Stories list when people click that link.
Jack> The Google Site Search tool is linked to that Gold Nuggets link.
Jack> Have fun with the yard work, and I hope you have a productive AND profitable weekend... And please DO come back
Jack> and share some more of your experience and help us help out the newbies when you can!
Jack> OMG SIMON!!! WELCOME BACK!!!
Jack> Simon, it's really great to see you back in the Forum! For everyone's information, Simon is a SEVEN YEAR VETERAN of our Forum Community!
Jack> I hope you'll be able to make it to one of the chats tomorrow. And also to start a blog to bring us up to date on how you're currently benefiting from what you've learned here. We're always available for a tune up too, of course!
Jack> Hey I'm sorry to say I have to get going now, but will be back tomorrow for both live coaching chats. Nice to see everyone!!!
artform> My Internet service provider is down and may not be back up by Chat time!!! This is a test of whether I can type fast enough on my iPhone , which obviously is active, to paticipate today, or not... This has gone better than expected. Time will tell...
artform> ...all the best to all if I don't make it back for
Ageless> Hi artform
Jack> Hi Ageless! I'll be back at the keyboard in ten minutes. Gotta get that cawfee! ;)
Jack> I look forward to chatting with you!
Jack> ***** Welcome to the Multiple Orgasm Trigger™ Training and Discussion Chat of 20080823 hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA
Jack> How are you, Ageless One!
Ageless> OK
Ageless> Had an good session this morning. Things are still progressing. I am trying too hard sometimes. Chasing away the fawn.
Jack> What's new? How goes your practice?
Ageless> No energy pulses in my back, but some in my genitals from time to time.
Jack> Is that less sensation than you've been feeling before?
Ageless> NO
Jack> Have I had a chance to review the accuracy of your Key Sound™ articulation?
Ageless> There is and has been a feeling of pleasure in my spine, but no pulses. Pleasure is steady. Pleasuring my nipples really intesifies things though.
Ageless> You have not had a chance to review the accuracy of my key sound. I plan on doing that over the phone sometime this week.
Jack> Ok, I'm glad to hear you're feeling some degree of pleasure!
Jack> RE: Key Sound™ review... Yeah that's really what's indicated here.
Ageless> Oh, thats for sure!!!!!!:):D And it keeps getting better.
Jack> Some people tend to think that accuracy of the Key Sound™ articulation is not that big of a deal, when in fact it is THE primary cornerstone of my breakthrough discovery!
Jack> I'm not saying that you don't value it,
Jack> I'm just stating that for the record - for the people who'll be reading our transcript here.
Ageless> There is a lot of pleasure in my genitals. Legs also and sometimes arms. I sense, however, that my core body is "blocked." This too is changing as I start to notice trembling in my pelvic and abdominal areas. I am working on feeling whay pleasure there may be in those areas.
Jack> It's the deeply resonant vibrations of the husky Key Sound™ that AWAKENS the profound multiorgasmic response, regardless of gender.
Ageless> I notice that the "pleasure" comes in waves. It will increase then die back down. This morning I had three waves.
Jack> It's great that you are tuning in to the possibility of some kind of block. Of course that block if there is one, may be physical OR emotional... There may be some unresolved emotional issue associated with that area for you.
Jack> The fact that you ARE noticing the waves phenomenon is VERY promising!!!
Jack> In addition to the Key Sound™ articulation review, I'm thinking it might be helpful for you to get some crayons or paints and do an abstract symbolic sketch of the area where you feel the Gate has not quite opened yet.
Jack> It DOES sound very good though that you seem to be taking your time, and being gentle with yourself... accepting and enjoying what you ARE experiencing so far. That sounds VERY good!
Ageless> I sense that the abdominal area and upper pelvic area are areas that should feel very plkeasurable. The fact that they are not feeling pleasure tells me that this area is the seat of my sexual blockage.
Jack> I know that you have a great deal of experience with personal growth processes. Are you specifically familiar with Gestalt Art processes, such as those taught by the late Dr. Janie Rhyne as described in her book The Gestalt Art Experience?[/b]
Ageless> I am also aware of trebling in my body as the pleasure grows. Eye lids start to twitch, and face muscles. Also have noticed more sweating in my arm pits.
Jack> These are ALL GOOD SIGNS, Ageless!
Ageless> I am not aware of Gestalt art processes. I will look it up.
Jack> I am also getting a sense from the tone of your writing that emotionally you seem to be pretty relaxed about your process - that you're not forcing or fretting, but just accepting and staying open to what you're experiencing. Am I right about that?
Ageless> Things are clearly moving in the right direction. I just note the new experiences as they come up.
Jack> RE: Gestalt... Oh! OK, I'll send you a link for Janie's Book. It's a classic.
Jack> Yeah, that's what I got from your tone, that you're doing a great job of holding yourself in that relaxed Zone of Acceptance... not forcing anything or fretting, just staying open to what might be next. That is PERFECT!!!
Ageless> Have also noticed throat muscles start to jump around. 5th chakra?
Ageless> There are no signs yet of any prostate orgasm.
Jack> RE: Throat... sure, muscles in your throat, or ANYwhere may start twitching.
Jack> For the readers, please explicate what you mean by prostate orgasm.
Ageless> Its really interesting when my genital and anal muscles start twitching. Anal muscle twitching is only been present this last week.
Jack> Re: anal muscle twitches, etc. Wow, this all sounds VERY good! Welcome to the Great Awakening!
Jack> Heyyy loosecanon1, Welcome!
Ageless> erI believe those people who use Aneros (?) devices experiece what they call a BIG O. As I understand it, the prostate starts pulsing or contracting as in an orgasm.
Ageless> Hi loosecanon1
Ageless> I have tried a couple of Aneros devices and do not experiece any pleasure.
Jack> Yes, with the Aneros that often happens... It doesn't necessarily happen with these multiple orgasms, although it may. It's best not to have any specific expectations, but, as you seem to be doing so far, just staying OPEN to WHATEVER form the awakening sensations may take.
Ageless> I have now recieved the book on anal pleasure. I have only scanned it so far. Working on Listen Little Man.
Ageless> THanks for the info on experiencing prostste orgasms by means of Multiples. I thought it was something all experienced KSMOs experienced.
Jack> I'm glad you've received Jack Morin's wonderful book called Anal Pleasure and Health. It's EXCELLENT!
Jack> I wouldn't necessarily say that ALL KSMO adepts experience prostate orgasms. I try to be careful about that, as sometimes people tend to conflate the prostate orgasms with the Key Sound Multiple Orgasms - while the latter tend to be much more full body, and quite often way more intense. I've noticed a number of Aneros users commenting about how the KSMOs are WAY more intense and pleasurable, whereas the Aneros orgasms can tend to be more localized.
Jack> That's why I want to reinforce that excellent attitude you have of being open to WHATEVER form these sensations may take.
Jack> Another suggestion I'd like to make, is that you get some acrylic paints and a few brushes, and that you paint the way these sensations are already feeling to you.
Ageless> The pleasure I am getting now from my KSMOs are DEFINITELY more powerfulthan anything I have ever felt from a conventional ejaculation orgasm. An E orgasm is truly locallized in my jenitals and in particular in the head of my penis.
Jack> Just purely abstract, not a picture OF anything, just putting the feelings into colors and gestures of your brush.
Jack> RE: DEFINITELY more powerful, that is WONDERFUL NEWS!!!
Ageless> I will try painting. Sounds interesting.
Jack> Yeah, just leave any internal or external art critics outside the door... The power is in the PROCESS not necessarily the result! :)
Ageless> Question! When I have an ejaculation should I also be feeling all the wonderful pleasure in other areas of my body like I do while doing KSMOs?
Ageless> I don't think so as a regular ejaculation involves tension.
Jack> Well, forget about should. We males especially are enculturated to think our way through a solution or experience before we have it. Just stay OPEN to whatEVER your innate multiorgasmic system wants to offer to you. You'll find out! :D
Ageless> I want to see if I can have a KSMO whole body ejaculation orgasm.
Ageless> THIS IS FUN AND INTERESTING TOO>
Jack> Well again I invite you to let go of expectations. Don't worry, Be Happy! LOL :D
Jack> But seriously, it's my personal experience, and that reported by pretty much ALL men who've awakened their multiorgasmic system using the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol™ that the ejaculation sensations are FAR FAR more intensely pleasurable than prior.
Ageless> Sometimes looking forward to trying something new is a challange but fun.
Jack> I know it's hard not to anticipate! But I think you're doing a great job so far of staying emotional OPEN to whatever forms the sensations may take.
Ageless> Thats great news.:D:D:D:)
Jack> Yes it can be a challenge and fun... as long as it's a loose attachment, because the consistent theme for men AND women who open to this is: I couldn't POSSIBLY have imagined!!!
Jack> RE: great news... Yes! You are serving as a FANTASTIC ROLE MODEL for others!
Ageless> To me, when I try something new its like an experiment. No one knows what the results may be. In the end, I like my belief that live is meant to be pleasureable.
Jack> I get no sense of tension in you - Of course you are WONDERING, but I don't get any sense of Yes, But blah blah blah or anything like that. And as Milton Erickson used to say about HOW a person may change: I don't know if you will experience it this way, or that way... BUT YOU CAN WONDER!!! :D
Jack> Yeah, I REALLY like the way you just said it. I hope EVERYONE reading this transcript will take that statement to heart as their guideline.
Jack> You have the PERFECT attitude for SUCCESS!
Ageless> I sometimes remember the intense orgasmic pleasure I felt throughout my body that one day at Esalen many years ago. That experience tought me a lot about what I could be and are designed to be.
Jack> And you ALREADY ARE very successful in this process. And the good news is, that it's fractal... The Doors of Perception and Sensation just keep opening, one after another, after another.
Jack> RE: Esalen... Yes You carry that Esalen inside of you!!!
Ageless> Interesting! During the last few KSMCs I remembered the Esalen experience and while doing so opened up to it taking place again during the KSMO
Jack> PERFECT!!!
Ageless> In doing so, it moves me along in that direction.
Jack> Yes INDEED!
Ageless> The pleasure I felt that day was BEYOND any words. Every nerve, every cell, in my body was pure pleasure.
Jack> Yes, a true Peak Experience!
Ageless> Hey loosecanon1, any comments? Come on into the conversation
Jack> Looks like he's off browsing a blog article. :)
Jack> You can tell by clicking on his name.
Ageless> Jack, I was interested in reading about Mog's back problems. I have the same concern.
Jack> What have you learned so far?
Ageless> About what?
Jack> About what you've read so far re: Mog's experience vis a vis his back issues.
Ageless> Apparently he also has a piched nerve do to a degenerate disk. It was causing pain in one of his legs. I amot experiencing pain but do have numbness in parts of my leg depending on what my activities are. Mog got a shot that helped him for a while thereby avoiding surgury. I hope that Stem cell research will give a solution before I need an operation. I know researchers are working on it. I also know that the shot Mog got did not interfere with his KSMO pleasures. They just keep growing.
Jack> Yes, that IS encouraging! And I think it's really GREAT the way you two guys are supporting each other in your practice. You are both outstanding role models and Elders of our Community!
Jack> You are both so GROUNDED emotionally and intellectually.
Jack> You really DO set a wonderfully high yet attainable standard for the rest of us!
Ageless> It pleases me to know I am helping others. And isn't that what elders are suppose to do?
Ageless> Too many elders don't.
Jack> Yes! And to model as you and Mog do that life is about ALWAYS continuing to GROW!
Ageless> :mad:
Ageless> I will call you for a time to practice my sound.
Jack> Well we just gotta accentuate the positive, as you and Mog so aptly embody.
Jack> Ok, you gotta deal!
Jack> It's great chatting with you, as always, and I look forward to our phone conversation as well.
Jack> I hope you have a wonderful week, and just let me know when you'd like to have that phone chat.
Ageless> Isn't it about time to ign off for now? We have covered a lot of territory.
Jack> Yes I think so. :)
Ageless> You have a great week to.
Ageless> :)
Jack> Excellent chat! It's a real pleasure chatting with you, as always!
Jack> Thanks! RE: week.
Jack> Have a great one!
Jack> ***** END of Multiple Orgasm Trigger™ Training and Discussion Chat of 20080823 hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA. NEXT hosted chat begins in 7 hours and 12 minutes from the timestamp on this post.
artform> Hi Ageless! Sorry to have missed the chat, you did have a great one.
artform> Will you be back tonight?
artform> Grandmaster Mog, your wish is my command! ...however long it took...
artform> ">as we rewire; we are all reconnected< I'm still fascinated by that, Art - it's perfect! Could you kindly put it into latin for me - when I'm given my Knighthood I shall have it on my Coat of Arms (with your permission of course)."
artform> said OMG GM MOG,
artform> ...and here rendered in the closest Latin yet by a diligent friend...
artform> Dum nos renovamus; omnes sumus coniuncti
artform> My translator feels he can possibly find an even better construction sire, but offers this as the closest translation by the book!
artform> Provided with the greatest of pleasure your enjoyment and edification, etc. etc... your very truly etc. etc... artform, etc. etc...
Session stop: Sat Aug 23 20:49:25 2008