Session start: Mon May 5 08:55:37 2008
Jack> Last day chat transcript is available here : Multiple Orgasm Trigger(tm) Discussion ChatBox Transcript of 2008054
Jack> lelo85: click Quick Links on the horizontal navbar, Edit Profile, Edit Email & Password, and enter a VALID email address so you can receive the information I'm trying to send you for complete access to the downloadable materials. Send me an email when you've done so. Likewise email me with any requests you have for additional assistance. Make sure email address is VALID and for privcacy, not used anywhere else on the web. All the best, Jack
mog> Happy birthday anniversary Jack, young fellah!
canuck75> Is today your bday Jack? Happy Birthday!
Jack> Hey thanks Grandmaster OMG MOG! - and likewise thanks very much canuck75 - Yes May 4 was the day! :D
Jack> skybyrd and kasper, please remember to take advantage of my personally reviewing the accuracy of your all-important, arousal-amplifying Key Sound articulation. It can greatly accelerate your results! And... the area is private. Only you as individuals and I will be able to hear the sounds. And please come the chats this weekend for more help!
Jack> Hi Zircon! I hope you enjoy my interview with Dr. Patti Taylor. Please feel free to post your comments and/or questions about it to the Forum in the http://www.multiples.com/howtolastlo...lounge/]Lounge
Jack> Hey Gandalf! I hope you'll post some comments, and of course any questions, about the April 27 chat transcript, and any other issues I may help you with.
Jack> Greets to Mog and lelo85!
Laly> Hi Canuck - good morning
Lopez> hi artform and spartans
artform> Hi Lopez! I was just leaving Laly a post about adding your phrase "Point of All Return" to the Glossary here and on the Wiki!
Lopez> Ohhhh :D
artform> Please got to the Glossary posts in the Suggestions box thread and add your definition and thoughts behind the term,PLEASE!!!
Lopez> As for a definition of the term, I believe it would be more apt for an adept to describe what that sensation is like
Lopez> I am still moving toward that experience and will gladly once I have those doors of bliss open widely and triumphantly
artform> If I'm remembering the Chat where you introduced the term, I think you would do very well getting everyone started on their own thoughts and definition suggestions... I do understand and respect your comments and choice. All the very best with your progress!
Lopez> yep the term certainly did flow through me ;)
artform> May the flow be with you always!
Lopez> I'll do my best from the intellectual view I have of the term. Of course, the definition will evolve as I and as others experience more
artform> Very good! Exactly!
Lopez> :)
artform> Thanks very much Lopez!
Lopez> My pleasure - how've you been?
artform> Up and down with the somewhat exceptional stresses we have but, or should I say butt, I am enjoying a great deal of the time now what I described in my last blog post as "General O-zone Living", even as I am sitting at the computer, posting and chatting here with you!
artform> How about you?
Lopez> O-zone living would be a great way to handle the stress :D
Lopez> I'm doing well - I've had a 4 week hiatus from practice, which happened to coincide with increased work load and lack of privacy.
Lopez> Those two things are starting to re-balance, and so my KSMO journey resumes!
artform> Very much so; it is a wonderful, and to use your earlier term, "triumphant", way of minimizing the impact of the stresses and blissfully riding through them.
Lopez> :cool:
artform> I too have often had to vary the pace or take a break from practice, but this Gen O-z phenomenon lets me call up a wide range of energies and states at will, even in the most unconducive settings...
artform> For which I am VERY grateful!
artform> Being able to practice by silently, mentally making the Key Sound was one of the big breakthroughs for me.
Lopez> oh wow. Were there differences in intensity between silent and traditional expressions of the Key Sound?
artform> No, the silent ones, once I got on to it, can do anything and drive the same levels of intensity as the audible KS in my experience. I don't know about others on intensity, but others are successfully using silent KS too.
Lopez> btw, just added my interpretation of the 'Point of All Return' to the Glossary Suggestions thread
artform> WONDERFUL!!! and many thanks! Again, all the best on your journey here Lopez.
Lopez> Thanks :)
artform> Just back from reading your post! That is a great starting point and standard for this group definition process. Thanks so much again. I have got to leave now for an out-of-office meeting. This was wonderfully fortuitous that we met and could have this chat right now.
Lopez> It certainly was.
Lopez> I am about to take leave too - enjoy the rest of your day!
Jack> Sorry I missed your conversation today but I've put Gold Nugget and a link to the chat transcript in the Suggestion Box thread where you also discuss it, and likewise, HERE. Well Done, Lads!
Jack> PS: That HERE link on the previous line is the direct link to the Chat Transcript. :cool:
Lopez> :)
artform> Thanks again Lopez and THANKS JACK for ALL and these links!
artform> Hi again Lopez!
artform> Lopez, you and POAR are now entered in the Glossary here! Thanks ever so much. It will grow...
artform> I have also attempted to place POAR in the Milestones sequence. That too can change. Let me know what you think of its position there with a post in the Milestones thread.
artform> I've also added "O-zone" aka Butt Buzz as in General O-zone Living in both Milestones and Glossary here. As ever they are open to comment and review. Tell us what you think...
artform> This is "common ground" with Aneros and may well come up during this Saturday's KSMO-focused Aneros Chat!
artform> Good night all!
Jack> Hi seeker2 - I hope you'll join us for one of the Training and Discussion Chats I'll be hosting in a little while, starting at 1700 GMT / 10 AM Pacific Daylight Time. I'll be happy to answer all of your questions and look forward to hearing how your practice is going.
Jack> OR the next one at 0200 GMT Sunday, which is 7PM Pacific Daylight Time SATURDAY May 10. NOTE: This invitation is open to ALL registered users as well!
Jack> RIGHT HERE in the ChatBox!
Laly> Hi sj
sj> good morning
Laly> how are you today?
sj> I'm OK. I needed to check and see if I had the right password for the chat later - been a while since I logged in..
sj> How are you?
Laly> i am great
Laly> only password you need is one that you log INTO the forum with
sj> Yes, I think I've got it. I wouldn't be able to post otherwise, right?
Laly> yes
Laly> is there anything I can help with??
sj> Don't feel obliged to respond to this, but to answer your "how are you?" a little more forthrightly, I am a bit frustrated, embarrassed and mystified by the the fact that I at some level want to do this practice, but in fact haven't been able (yet) to establish a regular practice.
Laly> any questions?
sj> I do know that I need to be gentle and curious rather than harsh and condemning about this though.
Laly> Oh yes
Laly> I can relate to that re: frustration of regular practice
sj> And I have to remind myself to focus on the journey rather than the goal, and not to push.
Laly> yes
sj> I guess if I am honest and look at my life, in each moment (where I could practice, or choose to go to bed so I could get up early and practice) I choose something else.
Laly> okay..I can see that
Laly> and understand
Laly> can i offer an observation
sj> I guess it's just like learning to play guitar or Spanish or anything else. Some discipline, or some way of remembering that the long term goal is worth sacrificing whatever minor pleasure I am getting distracted by.
Laly> sacrficing??
sj> This is not just an issue with KMSO for me, though I am sure that fact that it has to do with sex and self pleasure could add a few extra barriers.
sj> Please do!
sj> Yeah, perhaps choosing is a better word. what i mean is I stay up late browsing the internet, then don't have time in the mornings before work to practice.
Laly> Okay..I got that in a sense
Laly> I am going to share a story with you - about me
sj> I think I am a little afraid of be ing frustrated by "not succeeding" honestly.
Laly> because I totally understand -- in my views- regarding understanding about not
sj> Sometimes this practice reminds me of a certain kind of Zen where you are supposed to work for years and maybe someday have a big enlightenment experience.
Laly> being JUST about KSMO and self pleasure
Laly> work for years!!! OH LORD no no no
sj> This is precisely the wrong view for my particular psyc
Laly> orgasmic key sound success varies per person
sj> I will let you talk:)
Laly> me -- it took only like 4 sessions
Laly> before I 'achieved' an orgasm using Jack's Key Sound method
Laly> and I don't mean simulate self physically to orgasm
Laly> as a child i was sexually molested for a period of years, later raped at age 16 by boyfriend
Laly> (and have very few memories from that night-was so violent)
sj> (listening)
Laly> So in retrospect I had ALOT of emotional issues to come through
Laly> that the KS method and orgasms triggered- memories
Laly> I found it very hard to touch myself
Laly> and had begun remember images from the night of the rape
Laly> I began to doubt myself
Laly> scared even-
Laly> that i would have to quit the one thing that made me happy in yearas
Laly> years
Laly> (sorry hard to see through the tears :) )
Laly> but I trusted Jack and told him about being raped and in turn with help of friends from the forum
Laly> found a great counselor to help me through it
Laly> and now 3 years later...
Laly> still here and STILL enjoying magnificent orgasms
Laly> I had to trust myself in allowing them- whatever feelings or sensations that came
Laly> not to rush, force, or manipulate them in any way :)
Laly> in my 3 year journey thus far
Laly> i found that it actually detracts from practice
Laly> I had to ask myself "am I worth the 20 min 3 times a week?"
Laly> was an easy one to answer :)
Laly> YES!!
sj> (nice)
Laly> sorry for long winded - am very empassioned about this
sj> (I was actually around at the time you came to the forum - I remember)
sj> I think that "am I worth 20 min 3 times a week" is a good way to view it, when you want to do the practice but feel pressured by work, etc.
sj> What's a little harder for me is when I don't feel like doing it, when it feels like another obligation, a difficult chore to get through for some very far-off and uncertain reward.
sj> The trick I think is to make it a time that is for me, somehow.
Laly> yes
Laly> but thinking of it as am obligation-- somehow puts a barrier
Laly> on it before you ever start
Laly> and 'expectation' if you will
sj> When I do practice, there is often a lot of tightness, a lot of self doubt (am I doing it right) and even self-judgment, negative talk ('this will never work') so it can be something I don't really look forward to.
Laly> i hear you on the stress and work
Laly> When I feel that way-- I stop practice -- do a few deep breathing exercises
sj> But mostly I think it is trouble keeping my own priorities, as my priorities.
Valentine> sj, it definitely works
Laly> until I feel centered
Laly> relaxed
Laly> hi valentine (HUGS)
sj> Yeah - I think for me, trying to cram in KMSO when I am not relaxed is not particularly fruitful -- i almost need 20 min relaxation/yoga first.
Laly> hi lelo
Laly> sounds like a 'plan
sj> Ha - I just realized I sound like my girlfriend. How funny.
Laly> "plan" sj :)
Valentine> (hi laly!!) HUGS
Valentine> sj, I totally understand what you mean by wanting to do something else instead of KSMO
Valentine> its called procrastination, and it is something I am struggling with myself
sj> :rolleyes:To think that a guy would need some time, space and relaxation to "get in the mood"
Laly> I myself take 20 min beforehand and relax - meditate
Valentine> what I have done over the past few months is whittle away at all the nonessentials
sj> Hi Valentine - I'll be interested to hear any ways you have worked with procrastination
Valentine> like browsing the internet
Valentine> I just don't do it anymore because it just ends up ticking me off
Valentine> much the same reason why I don't watch tv, unless its 'shin chan'
Valentine> I looked at all the things I did, and realized that I was using the tv and internet for the wrong reasons
Valentine> Instead of using the tv to just watch that one favorite show, I would watch a whole block to get away
Valentine> instead of just using the internet to research, I was using it to do something to fight my 'boredom'
Valentine> Even though I had plenty of things to do
Valentine> So, once I watched my one show, or did my research on the net, I would stop, realize I was bored, and go from there
Valentine> Ya follow me?
sj> Yes - for me the internet in particular is attractive when there's something I don't want to feel
sj> But not satisfying- junk food
Valentine> exactly
sj> So I've been trying to catch myself and journal instead
Valentine> junk food is not necessary, and once you get ride of it for a period of time, you realize how worthless it is
sj> see what's actually underneath there making me a little uncomfortable
Valentine> except funnel cakes, which are delicious
sj> (welcome back Laly)
sj> (and hello lelo BTW - didn't mean to ignore you)
Laly> (I never left sj)
sj> (oh, just dropped off my view I guess) - any more suggestions for dealing with negative internal talk/frustration?
Valentine> I tried setting time aside exclusively for KSMO, but I rarely held onto it
sj> from anybody?
sj> Oh please continue with that valentine
Laly> sj--just to recognize that you are IN that mode
Jack> ***** Multiple Orgasm Trigger Training and Discussion Chat hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA
Valentine> Now that I have less junk to distract me, I just do it, gotta take 'right action'
Valentine> and taking 'right action' is so much easier when there is less to distract
sj> Elvis is in the building!
Jack> Hi everyone! Looks like I'm arriving in medias res;) It's nice to see everyone!
Valentine> Ok, that was my thought! :)
Laly> HI jack (hugs)
Jack> Hi Laly, thanks!
sj> Hi jack... been getting some great help already
Laly> yea- we are talking about mind noise jack
Jack> Thanks... How are people doing with it?
sj> and barriers to doing the practice (procrastination etc)
Valentine> Hi Jack!
Jack> That goes to one of the precepts of learning KSMO: Often, the greater challenge is not between the legs, it's between the ears!
Jack> :D
Jack> I think part of the mental trap sj is to frame your not practicing as procrastination.
Jack> That immediately tends to establish a mental frame of shame and guilt from which you must recover.
Jack> Then KSMO practice becomes homework that you haven't done!
Jack> YUCK!
Jack> Remember, that the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol(tm) is a guideline not homework or a strict regimen that you must follow, or else! :)
Laly> ")
sj> For me it's mostly a mystery at this point -- finding out why something I want to do, I don't do.
Valentine> oh, you already told us that... "Yes - for me the internet in particular is attractive when there's something I don't want to feel"
sj> Bingo - and even contemplating doing KSMO does bring up things I don't exactly want to feel
sj> Past failures and disappointments, shame about spending time on something sexual and sort of like masturbation... not insurmountable barriers but they are there.
Jack> Yes that's definitely part of the practice, sj, the appearance of the emotional furballs...
Jack> But rather than framing that occurrence as getting in the way of practice, you have the opportunity to welcome the appearance of the emotional furballs...
sj> It's funny, if I frame it as self-development, my ego's a little more down with that.
Jack> You might think I'm nuts to say that, but it's your emotional self asking for healing!
sj> OR even as cleaning out the closet.
Jack> Yeah good one sj!
Jack> That's more like it! :)
Laly> (is openly weeping - just reading along)
sj> So perhaps it's good to notice, just as an observation, that part of me does NOT want to do this/encounter this
Jack> The emotional furballs aren't impediments to practice, or even to the pleasurable results you want... they are the path to them!
sj> I mean, just saying, it's been at least three years that I've known about this, practiced occasionally, stopped, repeat, etc.
Jack> They are part of your emotional truth, your history or as some traditions say, your karma... So they come to the surface asking, or even begging: heal ME! Some wounded part of you is saying: Oh! Pleasure is in the neighborhood... heal ME! I (that wounded part of you) want to feel that pleasure too!
Jack> RE: the stopping and then later continuing... that's the most direct line, for you.
Jack> That's why sometimes it's important to get a little professional counseling assistance to help with the healing, as Laly and a number of others can attest!
Valentine> Jack: what do you mean by direct line?
Jack> It doesn't necessarily need to be years of deep psychoanalysis, necessarily. It may just be getting a little professional help to sort some things out... for that wounded part or parts of you to have a safe, compassionate, and supportive witness in whose presence those wounded aspects of yourself may give voice to the wounds, grieve them, and release them.
Jack> Val, by direct line, I mean that the most direct line for you or anyone in this practice is to allow the emotional furballs to surface, and to heal them (which may often require professional assistance, at least for a time), so those aspects may participate in the fun...
Laly> (like I mentioned I am doing sj:) )
Jack> So that more of you becomes available to the process of opening up and fully feeling the pleasure waiting for you through the Multiple Orgasm Trigger practice.
Jack> Yeah Laly!
Jack> That was a very good question, BTW, Val! :)
Jack> There is a great resource for such professionally trained emotional support available to you through the American Association of Sexuality Educators Counselors and Therapists: www.aasect.org -
Jack> Even if you are outside the US, they can often make referral to skilled, trained, and clinically supervised counselors who can help you heal any wounds.
Jack> There are certainly other resources too, as Laly can attest, but AASECT can be a good beginning point as well.
Jack> It doesn't necessarily mean you have to sign up for years of intensive work... Sometimes it can be very brief. It just depends on your particular emotional history.
sj> I respect your view on that Jack and Laly. But I honestly think that the practice itself will be enough healing for me, and that I need to organize life and priorities better. Maybe the counseling/coaching I need is more around difficulty making choices and following through. Cause it's not just KMSO..
Jack> Yes, it's great to identify that focus - perfect!
Laly> I agree with that assessment-- but only from my views sj
Jack> BTW it's KSMO not KMSO :D
Jack> Unless you've coined a new usage! That's ok too!
Jack> Just wanna make sure it all gets indexed by the Search Engine ;)
Valentine> for difficulty making choices and following through, you might want to look into a life coach
Jack> I think too, that one of the ways you may be psyching yourself out is that you have attachment to the results. That sets up a double-bind situation emotionally. Sometimes chasing the fawn can be very subtle! ;)
sj> For sure.
Jack> Val, good idea re: life coach!
sj> I think it has to just be a time for me, that is its own value.
Jack> A past President of AASECT, Dr. Patti Britton, is just such a person, for example. Just be sure to check out their background and training, and get references. :)
Jack> For example, Laly found a great counselor by referral from another KSMO community member.
Jack> Exactly, sj!
sj> Thanks everybody....I am feeling pretty full.
Jack> That is what I mean by opportunity! QED, dude! ;)
Jack> RE: full, that's wonderful! Nice work!
Jack> Ready to pass the Talking Stick for now, sj?
sj> Yes.
Laly> can in interject something??
Jack> You know the answer to that question, Laly... ;)
Laly> sj-- remember lil while ago about my saying 0 being empassioned with KSMO
Valentine> (hi mog)
Laly> (hi mog -- wipes tears so she can type)
Laly> it has transformed my life so much --
Laly> with love-- KSMO saved my life
Laly> :)
Jack> Along with some very important allies, such as members of our community, your counselor, and your own incredible will to go to great lengths - literally! - to secure the help you have needed and deserve!
Laly> thanks ...sorry is very overwhelming for me -- midsy lil meltdown
Laly> midst
Jack> The healing continues, Laly. :)
Jack> Rain helps the flowers grow.
Laly> actually remembering the journey to this point Jack
Laly> from being afraid.shy to now confident, loving person
Laly> and the journey THOUGHLY DOCUMENTED in the ksmo forem
Laly> forum 00 lol
Laly> (darn mind speak :P )
Laly> mog, anything you or anyone like to add?
Jack> Yes indeed! And thank you for documenting your journey of recovery and self-discovery. It stands as a very bright beacon for others faced with such challenges!
Valentine> I gots a question!
Laly> and Thank you Jack for a place to share it in
Valentine> firstly, have you, Laly tried the peridise?
Laly> k Val
Valentine> Secondly, are you, jack gonna go to the aneros chat today?
Laly> not yet
sj> Everyone, it's time for me to go. Thanks to everyone and I hope to be in touch soon.
Laly> thank you for being here sj
Laly> I should go out and walk myself
Jack> Thanks sj for sharing where you are in your practice!
Jack> Sounds good, Laly!
sj> Yeah, add some motion to the emotion laly!
sj> Thanks again Jack for all you do to support us.
Jack> And to Val, yes... I plan to be at the Aneros chat. Is it starting now, or an hour from now - i.e., noon Pacific Daylight Time?
sj> Ciao!
Laly> thanks :)
Jack> LOL good one, sj!
Jack> You're VERY welcome, sj!
Laly> ciao :)
Valentine> noon pacific time
Jack> Thanks Val... I'm all set. :)
Jack> bfn, Laly!
Jack> Anything else for our chat here today? There'll be another here, starting in about 8 hours, to accommodate community members in other Time Zones. That will be at 7pm Pacific Time, 0200 GMT
Jack> ***** END Multiple Orgasm Trigger Coaching Chat hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA
Jack> This ChatBox remains open for the use and benefit of the members of our community.
Jack> NEXT CHAT HOSTED BY JACK: MAY 10 AT 7PM PACIFIC TIME
Jack> ***** 20080511 GMT Multiple Orgasm Trigger Training and Discussion Chat hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA
Jack> Hi y'all!
Drew> Hi Jack
Drew> Laly, Lopez.
Jack> Hey Drew... How are you doing?
Drew> I'm OK... Feel like I'm in the middle of a giant furball.
Jack> Anything you want to give voice to here, or do you prefer to keep it private? This is after all a public forum. I'd be happy to chat with you about it later, e.g. by phone.
Drew> How are you?
Jack> Just informally.
Drew> Oh, that's a nice offer, thanks!
Drew> I was actually thinking I would start a blog to document what I'm going through.
Drew> I haven't quite got there yet.
Jack> Doing OK, thanks... today's been a full day of chatting... we had one Saturday AM then I joined in on one at the Aneros website, and now I'm back here. Quite a CHATAGANZA.
artform> Hi Jack, you're still standing!
Jack> Hi artform... speaking of Aneros chatpersons... :)
artform> Hi All
Laly> sounds good Drew :)
Drew> How did the Aneros event go?
Laly> hi artform
Jack> I hear ya Drew. It might be of benefit... you get to choose what you want to share and what you'd prefer to keep private.
artform> Hi Laly, good to be with you.
artform> Lopez, thank you for your great storytelling of your mediation retreat!
artform> Meditation! I mean
Laly> (thanks artform - same here)
Jack> Yeah, Lopez, that post is definitely a Gold Nugget about Vipassana!
Lopez> My pleasure :)
Lopez> Thanks again :cool:
artform> How are you following up on that experience?
Lopez> I'll be responding to Val's questions soon - re: life post-Vipassana
artform> I look forward to that too then, thanks.
Jack> BTW, Here's the link to Lopez' Vipassana Meditation Retreat Report
Laly> *lays head down
artform> Laly, how are you feeling after your recent progress?
artform> And have you had a chance yet to catch up with the recent posting of Lopez POAR?
artform> in the Glossary here?
Laly> re: progress *sighs
Laly> i feel wonderful-- if not frustrated at same time
Laly> re: POAR-- still lost on how to include that--
Laly> been working so hard on getting Glossary index set up period
artform> you have indeed!
Laly> no - little time for self- KSMO practice wise
Jack> Perhaps it could just be a Glossary page entry called POAR - Point of All Return.
Laly> or reading posts for that fact
Jack> Its own wiki page name could also be the same, so people typing in either POAR or the Point of All Return would find it.
Laly> ??
Jack> First things first, Laly... put yourself first. Practice helps allow the Well of Chi to refill.
Jack> No worries Laly, we can talk about Glossary details via email. No need to discuss that here. :)
Jack> So does rest, of course.
Laly> rest??
Laly> rest of what??
Jack> Who would like the Talking Stick first?
Jack> Rest as in relaxation :)
Laly> <looks at each man :)
Jack> R and R.
artform> I have a question I'd like to explore from the Aneros Chat if that would be of interest.
Laly> aahh - k ....
Laly> *sighs softly
artform> Would you like to go ahead Laly?
Jack> That ok with everyone, or does anyone feel they have a more urgent need?
Laly> i can wait artform - go ahead :)
Jack> < was re: artform's statement.
Drew> I'm OK with that.
Laly> (promised I'd hold topic from earlier chat so Jack could attend aneros chat)
Jack> You have the Talking Stick, artform!
artform> As the Aneros Chat was approaching its time limit we just got into the topic of being in public while energized.
Jack> Sorry, just realized I didn't hear from Lopez. You have the TS artform subject to input from Lopez. :)
artform> and I think we hadn't connected on the same level.
artform> Happy to wait.
Jack> Lopez, you there? Ok if artform has the Talking Stick first?
Jack> Or do you feel you have an urgent need to go first? Remember that it's OK to say you have an urgent need, if you feel you do!
Jack> This is one of those safe places where it's OK to say so! Makes for good practice! :)
artform> I'm concerned too that Laly left.
Jack> 1... 2... 3... 4... 5... 6... 7... 8... 9... 10...
artform> You're Back!
Jack> she's still logged in, check the bottom of the Forum Home page. vbmtor has never
Laly> (am here-- barely, but here artform , thanks for concern)
Jack> quite figured out how to keep everyone showing as present when they're logged in. Sorry about that!
artform> Laly's name was gone for awhile and just returned as I was typing about that.
artform> Public Energy...
Jack> The list at the bottom of the Forum home page in the What's Going On? section, sub-section: Currently Active Users shows who's still logged in.
Jack> Yes artform, you have the Talking Stick, please continue. Thanks!
Laly> i think it happens when don't type for a time period
Lopez> (sorry was afk - artform talking stick is all yours)
artform> As I have posted in some forum pages and my blog about being abdominally active quite often as "General O-zone Living" etc. I would like to understand the distinctions that we were approaching but did not get a chance to pursue on the ethics of being in public in this state.
artform> Several at Aneros also experience echo effects from aneros use, including hlaser's increasingly famed chairgasms...
artform> and many of us experience them involuntarily while at meetings at work, or at your desk etc...
artform> Now that I am in this lower basic o-zone much of the time, am I truly dangerous or is it really just a good level of positive chi energy?
Jack> VERY good question!
Jack> I'd like to hear from everyone who cares to comment. If you don't want to comment, maybe you could just say pass or similar... Then I'd like to offer mine as well... I'd like to hear from others first though, if that's ok.
artform> I do not use the ability to call up greater energies and higher level orgasmic feelings when in public, but aesthetic, kinaesthetic and synaesthetic experiences to prompt responses at various levels internally and within my ability to control my public behaviour...
artform> that is: Do prompt response...
Jack> to prompt, or do prompt?
Jack> LOL. thanks.
Lopez> Am yet to have that experience - therefore, pass
Jack> Could we just go around the room and each person offer your Point of View or say pass, or something. THANKS Lopez... although you can still have a Point of View even if it hasn't happened yet.
artform> anyone who has commented at all has positively said how great or joyful I am that day... seem
Jack> Drew? Laly? Lopez?
Laly> I get that quite a but artform actually
Laly> *bit- not but --- jeez
Drew> I'm not sure I understand the question.
Laly> higher awareness of excess energies Drew
Jack> artform would you care to restate your question, please?
artform> I have never made the Key Sound in public and agree with the ethical issues with that completely.
Laly> whether sexually-based or not (I hope i got that right)
Jack> ... or maybe rather than excess energies, spontaneous energies? Spontaneous Echo Effects?
artform> I am still sorting out the specifics of what energies I am experiencing when and from what source(s)...
Jack> Does that help, Drew?
artform> and as we said Lopez in our chat the other night...
Drew> A little...
artform> what I described as General O-zone certainly is a great way to ride out stressful events in my experience
Drew> There are times when I have intense feelings going on, even in public. I am clear though, that I'm still at choice as to what I do with those energies/feelings.
artform> Do you quash them?
Drew> No, not at all... I enjoy them 'internally'.
artform> Or let them ride and quietly energize you generally, not focused erotically?
Jack> Thanks everyone!
Jack> (sorry, please offer a response to artform's last question if you like)
artform> That is what I do and am concerned if I could be negatively effecting others as I thought you might mean this afternoon Jack.
artform> Great Drew, then we are on the same page. I really appreciate clarifying this experience, or at least beginning to...
Drew> :)
Jack> I think it's still good to be sensitive about that issue artform as to possible impact on others around you. That said, if the feelings are truly spontaneous, and you're not making a decision to amp them while in public, that seems to me to be within the realm of acceptability to me.
Jack> On the other hand, I think we do nevertheless have a responsibility to others to be aware of how people might be responding to your presence, even if all of the sensations you are experiencing are indeed spontaneous, and not being actively cultivated or amplified.
Jack> When Drew says at choice, that is how I personally interpret that boundary for myself.
artform> I am sensitive to this, very much so, which is why I have been concerned since then end of the Aneros Chat today. Thanks for your comment Jack.
Drew> I have some concern about that...
Jack> I'd like to hear it, Drew.
Drew> i.e. I am responsible for ME; I can't control how others are going to perceive me. Obviously, if I behave inappropriately, then I would have to face the consequences.
Drew> I trust MYSELF to take care of me.
artform> We all know of people whose ego or negative/power energies can, as the saying goes; "Suck the oxygen out of the room" when they enter it...
Jack> When you said you had some concern about that... were you saying that something one or more of the rest of us said, you were not in agreement with?
Jack> < was to Drew.
Drew> So, what's the opposite of that, Artform?
artform> There are many forms of psychological "energy politics" and "energy theartre"...
Drew> Yes Jack, the part where you said about us being responsible for how others perceive us (unless it's just my projection)
artform> The opposite is open sensitivity, willingness to meet the other as equal, and being willing to have equal space on common ground.
Laly> <feels like ping-pong ball
Drew> and what about being so full of life-force that you fill the room with love as you enter?
Jack> Drew, I still think that even in that case we have a certain social responsibility to be sensitive to the responses of others. That's not the same as being responsible for their feelings or responses, imho. If they are strangers, or even people we know, they may have some history of sexual abuse or other abuse that even they do not recognize.
Jack> That said, for me, the primary boundary is to not consciously AMP the erotically based energy when in public unless you're in the presence of informed consenting adults, i.e. where there is some social contract for doing so.
Laly> *holds hand up tentitively
artform> I'm back and last post lost. I keep forgetting to tick that box!
Jack> Plus...
Jack> Having some measure of awareness and compassion-based sensitivity that if you are feeling intensely good, that - I will switch to the use of I rather than using you here, sorry. By you, I was meaning one generally... If I am in
Jack> the presence of strangers or even with acquaintances I think it is still a responsible social act to have some measure of awareness and sensitivity as to how my energy may be affecting others. That doesn't to me mean to
Jack> be rescuing them or taking care of them... but as I say... we may not - and even THEY may not be completely consciously aware of their past history - there may be repressed effects of abuse, sexual or otherwise.
artform> Drew, I have experienced that in others and appreciate it when it is radiant and generalized. You can sense that, the intent. In other cases, where some unspoken agenda is clouding that energy, I react negatively...
Jack> That doesn't mean we have to walk on eggshells. But I do think there is a balance that I and yes, we can practice...
Jack> All that said, I think the really obvious boundary for me is to not consciously amp erotically- or sexually based energy when in the presence of people who are not informed and consenting to participating in such an energy field.
artform> Jack I agree and try bring that kind of sensitivity to all my encounters with others I do not know well or at all.
Jack> artform, I think we're on the same page, Brother!
artform> Another way to ask my question might be: does the KS only trigger sexual energies, or can it be or extend to more general bioenergetic forces?
Jack> I think that's true for Drew and me too, but Drew, you may feel differently about that.
artform> Chi whiz!
Jack> I think at least until further notice, the Key Sound does indeed tend to energize erotic energy centers - that it runs that kind of energy... but again when the origin is clearly the Heart chakra - perhaps that is not the case. Each person must decide that in integrity with themself, imho. Laly was signalling for a timeslice here, btw.
artform> That was meant to be Chi wiz!
artform> Wizard of Chi
Jack> I'd like to honor Laly's request for a timeslice to comment.
Jack> And then I'd appreciate hearing from Drew in response to what we've said.
Jack> And Lopez! :)
Laly> in response to artform's question about KS being "just" sexually based
Laly> have to read back-- got so off track
Laly> or spontaneous echos
Lopez> :) - I agree with the consensus between Jack & artform. But must also emphasise the point made about what flavour/type of energy is being emitted
Laly> when "I feel" they are vibrating out to others 'unconsciously" from me
Lopez> Drew's originally response, "filling the room with love", is obviously different to "filling the room with erotica/sex" :)
Laly> I find a quiet place-- restroom or some other 'private place' in which i can expend the energy out safely
Laly> I rarely amp the feelings if not comfortable in doing so
Laly> i.e. in prvacy of home
Jack> [Laly, r u still typing? I'm looking for punctuation that lets us know you are, IF that's the case.] :)
Laly> *lays talking stick down and prepares to leave
Laly> (forgot that -- sorry Jack--.)
Jack> n.p., Laly. Just checking. :)
Laly> on last vestages of consciousness-- 20 hrs awake and counting.
Jack> Whoa!
Laly> what artform has asked - touches on what I wanted to share
Laly> but will have to wait.
artform> Floating bliss-filled dreams attend you soon Laly.
Jack> Ok. I look forward to hearing your comments. Perhaps you can post or blog about it since it sounds like you don't have the energy to discuss it now. Am I correct?
Laly> oh , not that at all jack
Laly> but Lopez and Drew if they want to respond or comment.
Laly> I can wait.
Jack> Is anyone planning to say anything else?
Jack> Or wanting to?
artform> I hope that I have made it clear that I too do not amp erotic feeling in public. Neither do I swear using sexual imagery in public, even lightly. But I believe from my Tao practice which lasted a couple of years, and from my sense of these energies triggered over this past year, that erotic energy is transmutable, and transforms readily based on the intention and general behavioural patterns and disposition of the individual. However, I raised this because I am truly concerned to "do no harm"...
artform> from anything in my current explorations and evolving practices.
Jack> That sounds pretty good to me, artform!
Jack> I respect your holding that intention.
Jack> Anyone else?
artform> Nevertheless, I have been recipient of some extraordinary echo effects and synaesthesia, but nothing that the techniques I have learned cannot allow me to control completely in public. For which I am very grateful. Thanks again Jack!
Jack> Comments about this or any other issue?
artform> Goodnight and all the best to all!
Jack> Hey, you're VERY welcome - and Congratulations!
Jack> And to you and Mrs A, artform!
Drew> Goodnight, Artform.
Laly> Nite artform
Lopez> Night artform
Jack> Ok, would anyone like to take up the Talking Stick?
Laly> i'd like to- but been a long day for both of us Jack
Laly> afraid I wouldn't make much sense.
Drew> I don't think it's the right time for me, Jack.
Drew> Then again, maybe I need to mention something...
Jack> Ok, Drew and Laly, thanks for saying so.
Jack> Sure Drew, go ahead please.
Drew> I mentioned earlier about being in a constant state of furball.
Drew> I was resisting the idea of 'practice'
Lopez> Time to rest
Jack> Yes.
Lopez> See you all soon
Jack> [Ok Lopez, thanks.]
Laly> nite Lopez
Drew> in fact, the idea couldn't have been further from my mind.
Drew> Night, Lopez.
Drew> I did decide to practice some this week.
Jack> Yes, Drew.
Drew> It was tough at first
Drew> intense feelings of anxiety were in the foregoround.
Drew> I decided to practice anyway.
Drew> initially by breathing deeply and relaxing, feeling whatever was there to be felt.
Drew> I shed some tears and released a lot of energy
Drew> it felt good
Drew> a release
Jack> Good on ya!
Drew> the the energy now moving, I was quickly into higher states of arousal.
Drew> Since I've not been interested in ejaculorgasms over the last weeks weeks either, the charge seemed even more intense
Drew> Some wonderful sensations all over my body... Most intense in the lower regions.
Drew> I was also aware of tightness in my chest and throat areas (as usual)
Drew> I haven't used the Aneros in quite a while...
Drew> I didn't this time either, but I was aware of a 'desire to be penetrated'!
Drew> That was a bit of a surprise
Drew> yet it ultimately shifted/changed to a desire to be 'taken by the divine'
Drew> maybe the ultimate trust?
Drew> I couldn't quite get to the point of letting go
Drew> This session was a microcosm of what's occurring in my life at the moment!
Drew> as, I suppose, they always have been!
Jack> How so?
Drew> That's all I can recall at the moment... Comments? Thoughts?
Drew> Re: how so? KSMO has always been a part of my evolution, not just a cool way to 'get off'
Jack> Well my first response is that I really applaud your emotional courage in allowing yourself to feel what was coming up for you...
Laly> i am sensing one or two things
Drew> The emotional fabric of my life has been influenced and changed by my KSMO practice (and vice versa)
Jack> First, the layers of tears and the like, and then to give yourself permission to continue to
Jack> allow the feelings open even more... to let them take you, and I guess you could also say to TAKE YOU where they may.
Jack> No doubt! re: emotional fabric!
Jack> Yes, Laly?
Laly> could the tightness in the chest/throat be possibly related to your hesitancy to
Laly> let go??
Drew> Absolutely!
Laly> a 'form of holding back" if you will.
Drew> Can't argue with that.
Laly> okay, thanks- wanted to clarify that for others-- i.e. newbies
Laly> who may experience 'similar' feelings
Laly> :)>
Laly> .
Drew> I am clear that I'm in a personal spiritual transformation.
Drew> It's a scary place to be!
Jack> Given Laly's comments, I also see a LOT of surrender in your account.
Drew> It feels like everything I've counted on for security in the past is not there any longer... I have no foundation!
Drew> I need to build anew!
Jack> Yeah I really hear that re: transformation.
Jack> You're near the front of a very long line in that regard, methinks, in the coming months and perhaps years.
Laly> *starts to cry
Drew> You could be right!
Drew> (I may be crazy)
Jack> My sense is that you are experiencing some powerful re-birth pains.
Laly> :eek:
Jack> RE: crazy... One of Fritz Perls' favorite sayings was: Lose your mind and come to your senses!
Drew> Makes sense... I don't know that "I" will make it for sure, let alone who I will be!
Laly> k--i must say good night
Jack> He really used to frighten the horses with that one! :)
Jack> K, Laly... thanks for stickin' around for a while. I look forward to your checkin on what's up, once you've had some rest.
Drew> Night, Laly.
Drew> I'll bet.
Laly> night Drew
Jack> RE: The not knowing... re: making it or not, nor who you will be... that is really true surrender. That is a very great place of shamanic power.
Laly> IF i could sleep Jack-- i'll be sure too , thanks.
Drew> Wow!
Jack> Laly if you're having serious difficulty sleeping to where you're really getting behind the curve, then you should consult your physician.
Jack> Right away.
Jack> Drew, there's a woman named Carolyn Baker who's written an article called 12 Stepping Our Way to Armageddon.
Jack> There may be something in it for you. Especially as to surrender. It seems to me that you're really giving yourself permission to go into that space of surrender.
Drew> Thanks for the link; I'll check it out.
Jack> You're welcome!
Jack> What else for you this evening, Brother Drew?
Drew> Not sure... I feel better for having shared, so I'm glad that I did.
Drew> Oh, I do have one more thing.
Jack> Me too!
Jack> Yes?
Drew> I highly recommend Arthur Joseph's "Vocal Awareness" program.
Drew> I've been listening to it of late; it's very much in tune with the teaching of KSMO (IMHO)
Jack> Oh yeah! I think you mentioned that once before didn't you? I have been checking that out. It looks very interesting indeed! Another really great example of the power of the voice!
Jack> Thanks for the Reminder about it!
Drew> Yes, EXACTLY!
Drew> The program includes some 'exercises' that are designed to improve your awareness of self...
Drew> and include letting go of excess tension, and strengthening areas of 'weakness'.
Jack> And please keep me posted - even post to the Blog or Forum about your experiences with it. Yeah please do Blog about that, along with the other things you've been considering about blogging.
Jack> Once again you're blazing a trail! :)
Drew> I guess!
Drew> I don't remember signing-up for ANY of this!
Jack> Yeah there's a book, now out of print, by Anthropologist Andreas Lommel,
Jack> called Shamanism: The Beginnings of Art, and he travelled
Jack> all over the world interviewing shamans...
Jack> He makes a clear distinction between medicine men and women who are more like political beings who choose into their role... whereas shamans - the one's out on the fringe of the tribe if you will, who,
Jack> paradoxically are outside the normal - in the sense of norms based - tribe, yet are essential - vitally essential -
Jack> members of the tribe, and essential to their survival. He reported
Jack> that around the world, there was a prevailing and very consistent theme that shamans reported...
Jack> Something to the effect that: Hey, I didn't choose this! The spirits kidnapped me!
Jack> ...And it's only been through surrender (ahem!) and shamanic practice that I've been able to put all of the pieces of me back together!
Drew> Interesting!
Jack> Welcome to the Shamanic Zone, Dude!
Jack> :D
Drew> No safety net, eh?
Jack> You must re-weave your own!
Drew> I guess. :eek:
Jack> Or, as an old buddy of mine used to say about these kinds of issues: Oh SH*T, Thank GOD!!!
Jack> Learning to roller skate is pretty spooky at first, but once you get the hang of it, you can really roll!
Jack> Greetings to Newbie: JAMESON!
Drew> I like that metaphor, even though I hate skating!
Drew> Hi Jameson... Welcome!
Jack> LOL, nobody said you get to love it! LOL... The shamans often said that the spirits kidnapped them, dragged them away from the tribe, and tore their body to shreds, and they had to put themselves back together piece by piece.
Jack> Get out the Crazy Glue! :D
Drew> Yeah, it's just like that!
Jack> Yepper... ;)
Jack> That Re-Birth Canal can be a pretty scary ride even after the first rays of daylight!
Drew> And, I'm noticing 'advice' from the outside is not useful/applicable.
Jack> Yeah you gotta bring it from the INside.
Drew> I have many people around me who care, yet they can't do it for me.
Jack> And from the Higher - or Great Other - Power, whatever form(s) of that resonate for you.
Jack> Haven't been able to sell'em on the idea they could, eh?
Jack> Whew! Good thing!
Jack> Close call!
Jack> Well Brother, I'm startin' to wane, here... This is my 8th hour in chats today.
Drew> Yeah, the deal is totally about accessing and living from the INSIDE!
Drew> Yeah, I hear ya.
Jack> Yepper, from the INside... OUT!
Jack> Well BIG hugs to you tonight! That's a very dramatic and courageous story you shared tonight! Spot ON!
Drew> Thanks, Jack. I really appreciate that feedback!
Jack> You're very welcome, Drew... as always... And we'll have that phone chat real soon, OK?
Drew> OK, sounds good!
Jack> Ok, good night for now, and Sweet Dreams!!!
Drew> And to you too, Jack. Give my regards to Jakcie.
Jack> Will do!
Jack> ***** END of Hosted portion of Multiple Orgasm Trigger Training and Discussion Chat - hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA
Jack> This ChatBox remains open 24/7 for use of registered users of this Forum, and for study by all adults age 18 or older.
Jack> The Circle is Open, Yet Unbroken...
Session stop: Sun May 11 05:13:24 2008