Gold Nugget - POAR Point of All Return defined by Lopez during coaching chat of 19 January 2008 - 20080119 - Posted 26 January 2008 - 20080126

26th January 2008 00:23

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Session start: Sat Jan 19 21:39:55 2008

Jack>A transcript of ChatBox activity since January 4 will soon be posted to a new subforum called Raw ChatBox Transcripts (as soon as some technical difficulties are resolved).

Jack>Next hosted chat will be today, Saturday, at 6pm PST, 9pm EST, 0200 Sunday - GMT

Jack>BTW, sorry I spoke a little too soon about out search tool being ads-free. It will be, very soon though! :)

artform>Jack, was going to quote from today's chat in Glossary and Milestones, but can't scroll back any farther than when we called Drew back in. Is the whole chat today still available somewhere, or will it be available again soon?

artform>Oops! Can't get back before your chat notice here!

Jack>I just emailed it to you, artform. I was trying to post it to a new subforum I created called Raw ChatBox Transcripts, but there's a bug or misconfigure on my part that is

Jack>redirecting the link in that new forum to the main website home page. Weird. I've notified vbmtor.

Jack>Hi newbie urug! I hope to see you in the hosted coaching and discussion chat that starts at 6pm PST, 9pm EST (a little more than 4 hours from now)!

artform>Thanks!

Pan>Hi guys

artform>Hi Pan! How are you?

Pan>hi Artform, I'm doing good. How bout you?

artform>Well thanks. I would like to compare notes on KS and physical handicaps and old injuries, when you feel like it.

Pan>Oh yeah, of course! I've got a little time now if you'd like. Or would you prefer later?

artform>Have enjoyed your interview on the Library CD and early Forum posts.

artform>Great!...

Pan>Thanks, I've really missed this place. This is my time using Jack's new Chatbox. I love what he's done with the place.

Pan>uh "first time" i meant to type.

artform>I have a mess of a back neck chest after two violent whiplash accidents in my teens, and one about four years later which produced a side whiplash. Then there are the guts: born colic for the first year and raised on phenobarb and atropine for the first six years due to constant gut aching, at least in part due to childhood migraines as is now thought.

artform>Have however used yoga and physiotherapy techniques to mitigate a lot of this. Pain however returns at various levels and spasms are a regular visitor.

artform>Bone spurs in the spinal chord passage of the cervical vertebrae are pressing on the chord and may eventually require very nasty surgery.

Pan>Wow man. You have really gone through the Gauntlet! I'm amazed at how lucid and insightful your posts are considering the challenges you're facing.

artform>I am finding the gentle but very powerful bliss-filled energy flows the best part of KS practice, since vigorous muscle reactions can easily trigger more painful muscle spasms.

Pan>That's EXACTLY how I felt about the KS when I first started (and still do!).

artform>You have been through it too and I really appreciate your thoughts in your interview and posts.

artform>I don't recall, but have you explored or practiced Tao?

artform>I also have BPH and use my Aneros for actual direct massage therapy which mostly works well.

Pan>Well, I'm always glad when anything I've said here is helpful. Of course, we owe it all to Jack for having the vision to create this community. And yes, I have been a huge fan of Taoism since I was 13 or so (about 20 years now).

artform>Do you find any effects from the energy flows in the areas of your injuries?

Pan>As a matter of fact I have an appointment with my acupuncturist about an hour from now.

artform>I agreed about thanks to Jack!

artform>Ah! I haven't tried acupuncture. You do find it helpful then?

Pan>RE: KS energy flows - ABSOLUTELY!

Pan>I do find acupuncture helpful. Of course, it helps even more that I get it for free because he's an old friend.

Pan>However I highly recommend looking into EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) for "in the moment" pain and distress.

Pan>It's free to learn, use, and teach. And I find it incredibly effective.

artform>Are you able to distinguish the effect from say Aneros, KS and Tao from each other or do you keep these practices separate in time?

artform>Thanks for EFT. I have not heard of it and check it out.

Pan>Actually, I find that they all blend quite nicely. I practiced a lot of Qigong as a teenager and some Tai Chi later on. Regarding sexual energy, for me the KS is always the "background" energy so-to-speak and everything else just finds it's place within that framework.

Pan>RE: EFT, I recommend checking out emofree.com, you can get the instructions as a free pdf file there.

artform>That's very interesting. I'm still a novice and trying to see who's who.

Pan>"get" I meant. Uhg, I'm out of practice with "live" typing. LOL.

Pan>You mean in sensing what feelings are being caused by which practice?

artform>Yes.

artform>Just bookmarked emofree.com Thanks.

Pan>May I ask what Taoist techniques you are practicing?

Pan>Sure!

artform>In early 1990s I read Mantak Chia and surprisingly quickly mastered inward ejaculation. One night I tried sitting in some ice water just after doing SKF and found my self with a huge energy moving up the spine and "allowed it" to flow. It was a full Microcosmic Orbit and the taste of the Nectar. I was totally spell-bound. Life events meant that I left that behind for a long time.

artform>Finding and taking up Aneros and Key Sound in 2007 has reawakened the path and large and intentional energy flows of great range.

Pan>Oh that's excellent. i also became a Chia fan in the early 90's. And I also found myself "locked out" from Qigong and similar practices due to life events (car accident). I had given up on them for years right up until I tried the KS. Wow, it's really cool to me someone else who's had virtually the same experiences with chi practices and the KS!

Pan>uhg, please excuse the numerous typo's.

artform>In my youth I had what I called Intellectual Orgasms, without sexual stimulation, which I have described on the Aneros Forum and here. A & KS also seemed to me when I joined last year as possible paths to that youth phenomenon.

Pan>It's funny how I couldn't do the simplest qigong exercises or meditations to re-connect with my chi, and yet with my very first Ks I could feel that wonderful opening of energy throughout my body.

Pan>oh yes, I've read about your Intellectual Orgasms. I found it intriguing. It reminds me of Amygdala Clicking.

artform>Andrea, here in the KS Forum, challenged me to see if IOs might be Crown Centre Orgasms and sent me recently to The Tao Bums site, where a poster named Xenolith is posting on CCOs.

artform>Please tell me about Amygdala Clicking.

Pan>Huh, yeah, I was also thinking Crown Chakra and/or Third Eye RE: your IO's.

artform>CCOs seem to be very much like IOs in many respects. When I experienced the Orbit in the early 1990s, I did not have an equivalent to the IOs, but was very conscious of the spiraling energy around the pineal gland.

Pan>Well, actually there are a couple techniques I practice - Amygdala Clicking (neilslade.com) and "Joy Touch" which stimulates the septum pellucidum. Personally, I find the septum pellucidum easier to stimulate and more powerful in effect than working the amygdalae. Hmm, let me think about how to describe it...

Pan>Yes, well all three of those areas are quite close anatomically speaking (central brain), so I imagine you probably were stimulating all three during your IO's.

Pan>Essentially, the experience is quite simply what it sounds like, when people refer to Third Eye Orgasms and such, they feel like orgasms literally insider one's head.

artform>This is amazing. I so much appreciate your sharing this.

Pan>Oh I'm more than happy to! I think everyone should know about this stuff!

Pan>I'm sorry to say, I'm pressed for time though. I have to get ready for my appointment and some errands. But I was hoping to make to the chat later tonight.

Pan>Will you be in attendance?

artform>All the best and many many thanks Pan. I am not sure about chat tonight but soon again. Look forward to more chats with you soon.

Pan>Thanks Artform. I've really enjoyed our conversation and am also looking forward to speaking with you again. Until then, take care.

Buster>Wow, Pan is here! You are like a legend both here and over at Aneros!

Pan>LOL! Hi Buster, it's good to see you! Actually, I'm not technically "here," I was just taking a shower and now I'm out heading the door for some errands. But I'm hoping i can make tonight's chat (fingers crossed).

Laly>oooh myyy PAAANN hugs

Laly>i hope u make chat too pan :)

Pan>Hey Laly! Big Hugs Back. How are you?

Laly>good --- miss u like crazy tho :)

Pan>aw shucks! It's great to see you again.

Laly>same here

Pan>uhg, I have so many questions, but I'm just about outta here (waiting for the Mrs. Pan).

Laly>:)

Laly>still have my email addy pan?

Pan>Well that's my cue - um not sure but please feel free to email me Hope to see you tonight. Luv ya!

Laly>ok-

Laly>luv ya back :D

Laly>hi mog

Lopez>Hi Laly

Laly>hi

Lopez>were you in attendance at the earlier chat?

Laly>no- at work :(

Lopez>we'll just have to guess what they spoke about :D

Laly>yeah

Laly>how ya been?

Lopez>i've been well.. i was just about to ask you, in your opinion how do you see your Key Sound practice as a meditation?

Laly>well I don't DO the KS part

Laly>I close my eyes, breath in and out slowly

Laly>letting go of all my thoughts, fears

Laly>i may be having

Laly>relaxing muscles from head down

Laly>as i breath I notice how the energy moves around

Laly>around

Laly>my heart begins to speed up

Laly>breath changes

Laly>as with KS it amplifies

Laly>these feelings

Laly>i just focus on how the energy moves

Laly>like is feeling-- welcome home , and i smile

Laly>and i feel myself begin to shift to a higher energy plane

Valentine>HOLY CRAP, PAN WAS HERE

Laly>YES HE WAS :)

Valentine>And I freakin' missed him AGAIN!!!

Laly>he and his wife had to do something

Laly>and he hopes to be in chat (maybe)

Lopez>Thanks for the description Laly :D

Laly>your welcome

Lopez>don't worry Val.. I'M here!

Laly>i am doing this now-- very low key tho

Valentine>Look, your name is much too long

Laly>who's is??

Valentine>If it was just Lop.... ;)

Lopez>lol... one of my nicknames is K-Lo

Laly>don't want to know my nickname val ;)

Laly>longer than my name is :)

Valentine>I totally do, now!

Valentine>lollipop?

Lopez>Lallerific!

Laly>lil_grasshopper

Valentine>that was anti-climatic

Lopez>just a tad :P

Laly>well-- at 1 point in my journey I got REALLY frustrated

Valentine>Laly, we are not pleased. :mad:

Laly>at lack of progress

Valentine>you lose talking privileges.

Laly>not pleased ???

Laly>ohh okay - i can leave then :(

Valentine>I did that once to my sister, she just looked at me...

Valentine>and said, 'fine, lets see how long you can handle that, mister.'

Valentine>I lasted a minute

Valentine>For the life of me, I couldn't not talk to her or not have her talk to me

Valentine>double negative. either way..

Valentine>Laly, pleaaaaseeeeeee, you can talk again. :)

Valentine>OH, look at that, im even acknowledged in your blog, awesome!

Laly>am very hurt by that val

Valentine>:(, I meant it as a joke, not to hurt your feelings

Valentine>For that I am truly sorry

Valentine>Please forgive me.

Laly>i thought you truly were angry with me

Laly>am sitting here trying to work out/thru my panic attack

Valentine>:) calm down. :)

Valentine>I have used the 'i am not pleased' line before on my friends, when they can see my face

Valentine>And they know I am joking around. I guess the :mad: face didn't convey what was I wanted you to feel

Valentine>it was supposed to be, 'haha, you jerk' and then I get a smack on the arm. :)

Lopez>The qualms of non-emotive online communication.. words are incapable of revealing true intention

Valentine>The last thing I wanna give Laly is a panic attack!

Laly>i wish i could stop shaking :o

Valentine>oh, poor thing. *HUGE ENORMOUS HUG*

Valentine>I am so sorry.

Laly>is ok val-- it's been coming

Laly>stress and worry

Laly>build up

Valentine>You are ok now?

Laly>am better -

Laly>still fine trembling

Valentine>:) communication DOES work! Let me tell you about my day

Laly>am craving a strong drink too

Laly>but i am not giving in to that

Valentine>story time will cure that!

Valentine>So, yesterday, I got my new books, one of them is a horror. World war Z

Valentine>Nightmares, yes. Ended up staying up most of the night, dang zombies!

Valentine>then, went to my energy healing class. I know have 5+ energy modalities under my belt

Valentine>We worked with earth energy, heart/loving energy, and divine energy

Valentine>The person that practiced on me was pulling a cord, which almost pulled me out of me.

Valentine>And they literally almost knocked me out of the chair as they called down a column of divine energy.

Valentine>Questions so far?

Laly>no

Laly>(hi pan )

Valentine>It actually was rather shocking, I had never had energy do something so strong before.

Valentine>!!! HI PAN

Lopez>please continue :)

Jack>Hi Laly, Lopez, Val, and Pan!

Valentine>then, I did them, and ended up finding a massive cord that went out the back AND front

Valentine>pardon, I did my partner

Jack>******Hosted Chat 20081020 0200 GMT

Jack>Yes, pls continue if you like!

Valentine>ok!

Valentine>I wanted to cut the cord, like in pranic healing, but the class teacher wanted us to slowly pull the cord out

Valentine>it is less traumatic for both parties

Valentine>But this cord was so stuck, it would not come out

Valentine>the teacher told me to use the divine and loving energy at the entry points

Valentine>And then I tried to pull the front one again, and it still wouldn't budge

Lopez>(lol Val you need more work in the gym ;) )

Valentine>That was it. Cleaned her aura out real good. :)

Valentine>My biceps hurt so much today!! dang personal trainer decided it would be fun to burn them for all they were worth!

Valentine>Ok, done with the big stuff. Do you thing Jack!

Pan>Hi everyone! (bows humbly to Sensei Jack)

Lopez>Hello Si-fu Jack!

Valentine>Pan, I am very excited to finally talk to you!

Jack>Hey Pan!!! It's great to "see" you again!

Pan>Hi Valentine (can I call ya Val?) it's nice to meet you.

Jack>G'day Lopez!

Pan>LOL, hey brother! How's life up there?

Jack>Great! We're only still here part time in BC, rest of the time in Ashland still. Waiting to hear - doing a lot of deep breathing in that regard, since it's been two years! :-)

Jack>I hope you and your Beloved are doing well also. Please give her my very best wishes.

Pan>OMG! I didn't realize you were still in the States. My condolences.

Jack>LOL. Thanks I accept them. LOL

Pan>Thank you, Amy wanted me to say "hi" to everyone for her.

Jack>Yeah, part of the time. We expect to be back down there at least for a while in late Feb, early March.

Pan>Still in the same house?

Jack>Yep, the ol' homestead. :)

Pan>Well that's good. We really loved that place.

Jack>Speaking of Sensei, you're making quite a rep for yourself out in the Web, and very well-deserved, Young Wise One.

Pan>We'd buy off ya if we could. ;)

Jack>Jackie and I both really enjoyed your visit, lo those many years ago! :)

Jack>LOL I hear ya re: if we could. Yep it's a bit crazy that way.

Jack>Ashland has been "discovered".

Jack>She changes everything She touches.

Jack>;)

Pan>LOL, yeah sorry to hear it.

Jack>Hey Pan, did you see that our ol' buddy canuck75 is now very happily in the Adept Zone?

Pan>Oh wow. That's GREAT! I bet there's a LOT of surprises around here I'm gonna hear about.

Jack>Yeah! And now you'll be able to actually FIND them more easily since we have Google site search in place (going Ads-Free version of Google any day now, as soon as vbmtor can get to it).

Jack>Improved Usability of the Forum is my New Year's Resolution! :D

Pan>I gotta say Jack, I really love what you've done with this place. It looks better every time I stop in.

Jack>Thanks Brother! Yeah the work behind the curtain is starting to show. BTW I'd love any and all Suggestions you'd care to make to the thread on that topic in the Suggestion Box.

Pan>Well, I'm still catching up on the fancy new bells and whistles. But if I think anything, you'll be the first to know.

Lopez>Pan, you should have your KS validated ;)

Valentine>Totally.

Pan>Hey maybe I should!:eek:

Laly>i plan 2 pan :)

Jack>LOL. Laly, Lopez, and Val, with Pan's leave, by all means feel free to ask him about this practice plus its relationship to others. His knowledge is literally Encyclopedic.

Pan>(blushing)

Jack>And Pan, how long has it been since you entered the KSMO Adept Zone? QUITE a while! Do you recall more or less exactly?

Buster>I already did....I passed with flying colors.

Valentine>OMG, Pan, I have read most of your post here and on the aneros website

Jack>(if that more or less exactly makes any sense!)

Pan>Yeah Jack, I started in December of 1999.

Lopez>(Valentine has recently suggested to me that in honour of you Pan he is willing to change his nickname to Van)

Pan>When I hit 10 years, I'm gonna throw a party.:D

Jack>Yeah! Pan was REALLY partying like it was 1999! LOL :D :D

Pan>ROFL! I don't know what to say.

Valentine>I'm quite the Pan-boy. :)

Jack>Cool! RE: party!

Valentine>that was a horrible joke.

Jack>Val our resident critic.

Pan>OMG, this is one crazy chat.

Lopez>don't be so hard on yourself Van

Laly>i'd say something - but

Valentine>I meant my joke.

Pan>And here I thought I would just be chillin in the corner...

Jack>We've had others, haven't we Brutha Pan? :)

Valentine>We need to implement the talking stick!!!!

Pan>Oh yes Jack, we've had many cases of "the puns"

Jack>Is there something you're needing to say, Val?

Pan>Agreed Val.

Laly>(unearths talking stick from dusty box)

Jack>A case of the puns, that's pretty funny Pan! LOL!

Pan>Thanks, I guess I still got after all these years.

Jack>Just as the Protocol is a guideline not a straightjacket, the Talking Stick is a Wand, not a club. ;)

Pan>LOL!

Valentine>Quick, talking stick, Laly, GO!

Pan>So are we all veterans here?

Laly>(lays Talking stick on table- and leaves)

Jack>Oh Jeez Laly, I'm sorry you feel the need to leave! :(

Jack>Anything we might help you with before you go?

Jack>I know you said things have been a bit bumpy lately.

Laly>i dont want to jack *cries

Jack>Do you feel you can linger a wee while? Of course if you need to go to take care of yourself, we understand. You're sure welcome here!

Laly>can help heal heartache??

Jack>I'd like to think over the past few years we've been of some help to you in that regard. :)

Laly>if i left-- would pick up the whiskey bottle jack-

Laly>and i dont want that :(

Jack>Well I think you've answered your own question then, haven't you?

Laly>well as i posted earlier-- i have a workshop in 2 weeks

Laly>and been worrying about that ,, and other things

Laly>it all bubbled over big time earlier

Laly>triggered a panic attack

Jack>I'm glad you're staying connected here. There are some good lads here.

Buster>I can sure sympathize with that! Hang in there Laly.

Buster>It always gets better.

Jack>Buster are you ok saying a wee bit more about that? Totally optional, as always, of course.

Buster>It is like a person

Buster>oops

Buster>Like a person's mind just takes over in a very negative way.

Buster>There are times that it just starts going in a bad direction and it is so difficult to stop it.

Buster>That can trigger all sorts of things.

Jack>How do you change direction at a time like that, Buster?

Jack>What works for you?

Buster>It is curious actually. I am sure it is different with each person, but I have no idea how to change the direction manually.

Buster>There have been times that it just changes from negative to positive in a 10 minute period, or can happen overnight. It is pretty powerful stuff.

Jack>I sure understand that. How do you take care of yourself in the meantime?

Buster>And uncontrollable.....at least in the cases that I have dealt with.

Buster>I find that exercise helps.

Jack>Yeah emotional furballs often come from the depths.

Buster>Kick up the heart rate and let your body feel good even if your mind is off kilter.

Jack>Yeah, actually there are a number of studies that show that even very moderate activity such as a little walk or whatever starts generating endorphins and even boosts the immune system.

Buster>I am a pretty positive person, but there have been times in my life that the black demon comes out of nowhere and rips you up.

Jack>I learned that back in the days when I was working with people with seriously life threatening illness (mostly cancer). Carl Simonton MD of Simonton Cancer Center has been doing GREAT work on those kinds of studies since I trained with him in the 70's.

Jack>Yeah, I hear you Buster re: how sometimes that old shadow just pops up seemingly outta nowhere.

Jack>Even though it can be exhausting, I still do my best to frame it as an opportunity, that somehow the wisdom of our emotional body is saying there's a healing opportunity here.

Lopez>For me, awareness and knowing that my greatest realisations come from some of my darkest moments, keeps me going and pulls me from these depths quicker than before

Jack>How you doing Laly?

Laly>emotionally drained

Valentine>So I guess a good natured knock knock joke wouldn't help? :)

Laly>wanna hide in corner and lick the wounds

Buster>"knowing that my greatest realisations come from some of my darkest moments" That is something Lopez. I will think about that again!

Pan>Ain't nothin a good pun won't fix!

Pan>Yeah Lopez, that was beautiful.

Jack>Good intuition, Val.

Jack>re: prolly won't fix.

Pan>Just curious, has any else here ever used EFT for this kinda stuff?

Lopez>Thanks :D

Jack>maybe but it's a gamble right now. Maybe for you, some deep relaxing breathing.

Lopez>(I was also about to suggest EFT.. although I have no personal experience with it.. YET)

Buster>EFT?

Laly><hates eft

Pan>Emotional Freedom technique (emofree.com)

Lopez>Emotional Freedom Technique/Tapping

Jack>Hey Laly and Buster, have you guys ever heard of EFT? It'd be cool for Brother Pan to lay a riff on us about it. Hey Pan, what's Gary's last name?

Pan>LOL Laly. How come?

Buster>Nope.

Pan>Gary Craig, great guy.

Jack>Yeah! Thanks Pan... BTW, Val, Gary works a lot with Donna Eden and I believe they co-authored a book or??? Pan, you know the details better on that than I do.

Laly>i have

Pan>EFT is one of a bunch of techniques called Energy Psychology.

Jack>Brother Pan, would you be willing to riff on Gary's work a bit?

Jack>Ah looks like you are! LOL :) Thanks! Roll on!

Pan>Yeah sure.

Jack>Thanks!

Pan>Essentially, it's just a combination of acupressure and self-hypnosis that helps to release physical and emotional distress. In fact

Pan>2 weeks we had to put our beloved cat of 15 years, Murry, to sleep. It was devastating for both of us, but

Pan>I used EFt on myself and with my wife and my grieving process lasted only 2 days, rather than what could easily have been months.

Pan>My wife took just a little longer, but she was fine in about 4 days and is doing great now. And credits our EFT sessions for it. I find that

Buster>Interesting stuff. I will explore it more. Sorry to hear about Murry. Sometimes people dont understand how hard losing a pet can be.

Pan>it has worked for all kinds of things from Panic attacks to old emotional wounds, and even performance enhancement (wink).

Pan>Thanks Buster. Yeah it was hard, but it was his time. And really, we're at peace with it now.

Pan>But I can't recommend enough how helpful EFT can be for those furballs as well as

Pan>limiting beliefs or physical distractions, etc. It's just a wonderful supplement to KS practice in general.

Pan>How's that for a riff, Jack?

Jack>Wow Pan, I'm very very sorry to hear about the passing of family member Murr the Furr Purr!!! :( :(

Lopez>Pan, what other supplements have you found helpful for KS practice?

Jack>Lovely, Pan, thanks! Way to throw down!

Buster>I think a big issue with me when I go through those times is being pissed at myself that I can't pull myself out of it.

Jack>[How old was Myrrh? (my other favorite spelling of his name).]

Jack>Sorry Lopez and Buster, didn't mean to interrupt.

Jack>Pls continue, guys.

Pan>Thanks Jack. Lopez, that's quite a list you're asking for. :p

Lopez>You can mail it to me when you're done ;)

Pan>He was 15 Jack.

Jack>RE: being pissed at yourself, that's definitely part of the vortex quality of a spell like that.

Pan>You got it! :)

Valentine>I want that list too!

Lopez>What was the first supplement that came to mind?

Buster>Ya Pan, let's pick your brain a little bit. How has your practice changed in 8 years?

Jack>[Wow, thanks for the details and for letting us know about Murray, Pan!]

Pan>one sec guys afk...

Pan>sorry (phone) ok I'm back and my brain is available.

Jack>While Pan's afk, I'd like to welcome back JimR as well. Hey JimR, long time no see! Welcome back!

Pan>Well Buster, that's a good question. The answer is A LOT! LOL.

Pan>Hi JimR

Jack>Pan, before you riff on the 8 years, could you perhaps first answer the supplements question?

Buster>Hi JimR

Pan>oh I'm sorry Lopez, i missed that one.

Laly>:(

Pan>Well, the first thing that comes to mind is self-hypnosis and brainwave entrainment - specifically the Ecstasy Cd by Kelly Howell.

Pan>To me they're one in the same, since I used the Cd to help me visualize better KS sessions.

Valentine>Laly, I think that you have gone through a lot this evening.

Pan>By doing that, I was telling my subconscious exactly what feelings and experiences I wanted.

Valentine>Unfortunately, I was the straw that broke the camels back.

Laly>am leaving -- apparently done i guess

Valentine>Will you do me a favor?

Pan>Oh Laly, I'm sorry.

Pan>Laly, are you still with us?

Valentine>This is awkward.

Buster>Yup.

Pan>Indeed.

Valentine>So, what do we do?

Buster>Hey Val, why were you the straw?

Lopez>Deep down we all love you Laly :)

Valentine>It was a joke gone horribly wrong

Buster>Don't feel bad. So many things can get misunderstood when you are not face to face.

Pan>Heck, we love you on the surface too!

Buster>I am sure if she is still here that she know that she is among friends who care here.

Lopez>Agreed with Buster.. Don't feel bad. Feel love. :D

Valentine>Very much!

Buster>Anybody want to talk about their KSMO practice? What works, what doesn't?

Pan>Well that's a novel concept! ;)

Valentine>Im guessing Jack has called Laly (maybe?)

Valentine>Yeah, let's get back to Pan and his supplements!

Buster>Pan, you were mentioning the Ecstasy CD. I have that one too and have enjoyed it. I have used it more in my Aneros sessions.

Pan>Yeah, I have been using it for over a decade. It's fantastic!

Lopez>I remember reading a post of yours about a custom hypnosis CD that you had ordered?

Buster>That hypnosis stuff is pretty interesting Pan.

Pan>Yeah, I got it from Victoria Wizell at hyptalk.com however, I highly recommend "Super Hypnotic Orgasm" by the same.

Pan>It works for both genders and any kind of practice style.

Pan>It is basically designed to teach you how to program your orgasmic responses to fit whatever your particular goals are.

Buster>What control!

Lopez>In conjunction with your KSMO practice, when do you use the hypnosis/brain entrainment CDs?

Pan>LOL Buster. Well Lopez

Jack>Yeah Pan, I really like her approach to that too!

Jack>It's something that came up for me when I was first becoming adept at this... that since orgasm -

Pan>what i found to be most effective is to enjoy my practice sessions and then use the Ecstasy afterwards to help refine in my own mind what I wanted to feel and experience.

Jack>and especially THESE kinds of orgasm! Are the LIFE FORCE,

Jack>so you can direct that LIFE FORCE into what you desire through intention.

Pan>ABSOLUTELY Jack!

Buster>You guys are on a whole different level!

Jack>Actually Buster, we're right here with you! ;)

Valentine>haha, this is the hardcore KSMO stuff

Buster>And I am looking forward to getting there myself.

Lopez>:) What others things do you do to supplement/calibrate your mind/body in your KSMO practice

Pan>You're already there brother. It's just a matter of realizing it.

Lopez>(directed at Si-fu Pan & Si-fu Jack)

Buster>What you have done is fine tuned what I (and others) experience and are becoming ONE with it. Manipulating it in a way.

Buster>I need to practice more, I can tell you that. Sort of like the piano, only fun!

Pan>Actually Buster, I was just thinking today how KSMO is something that I haven't practiced in years, it's simply ingrained in me somehow.

Valentine>It has become unconscious of sorts?

Buster>Sort of like a concert pianist just sits down and plays.

Pan>Lopez, like i said before, I highly recommend exploring EFt and other Energy Psychology methods to help improve the process, and I also have a couple more suggestions.

Buster>I dont play the piano...really.

Pan>Oh yeah Val, it's both unconscious and conscious.

Pan>The funny thing is, realizing it was always there to begin, then discovering it (consciously) and then allowing to once again become automatic (unconscious).

Buster>It's a part of all of us. That is the interesting part.

Pan>I guess that's why they call it the Big "O" cause it's just a big circle of consciousness. ;)

Valentine>Could you go into a little more detail into how you have used EFT for performance enhancement?

Pan>Yeah sure! First thing to know is that

Buster>Hey guys, I have had a long day (I had to work) and am at the end of my rope. I have got to go. Nice chatting with all of you and hope that we can again. Good night.

Lopez>ciao Buster

Valentine>Goodnight Buster!

Pan>Night Buster. Take care.

Buster>You too.

Pan>EFT is very adaptable to individual needs, there are many versions of it that have sprung up over the years.

Pan>But a basic approach would be to first isolate whatever your furballs are, clear them out one at a time,

Jack>Thanks Buster for being here tonight and for sharing!

Pan>and when you no longer feel any resistance in your sessions, you can start "tap in" the positive experiences/beliefs that you want have using the same technique.

Pan>In my experience, EFt is that fastest and most effective form of self-hypnosis I've ever seen.

Pan>Does that make sense?

Valentine>It does, but I would gladly like an example.

Valentine>Since it seems that you are using it as a sexual inhibitor annihilator

Pan>Yeah, actually that's it exactly! It's a furball buster! LOL.

Lopez>now thats a mouthful lol... sexual inhibitor annihilator :cool:

Pan>For example,

Pan>suppose I'm new to the KS and I feel "silly" when I make the sound - that would be something I could "tap out."

Pan>Like "Even I feel silly whenever I make my Key Sound..." etc.

Pan>If I do it right that feeling will vanish and it leaves room for something positive to be put in it's place like

Pan>I choose to feel sexy and confident while I'm making my Key Sounds." If any part of that

Pan>statement feels untrue while I'm saying it, then I know I have more negative beliefs/feelings to clear in order to allow that new programming to be put in place. Make sense?

Valentine>That was perfect. Thank you!

Pan>My pleasure. ;)

Valentine>I know that you have tried a lot of other things, could you please continue that list?

Pan>LOL! Yeah sure. How about Amygdala Clicking?

Valentine>I totally got all his stuff two weeks ago!!

Pan>I got into that around my second year of practice. You can learn about it at neilslade.com. Although for the record, I'm not endorsing Neil Slade, just the technique.

Pan>LOL, that's GREAT! How's it going so far?

Valentine>I know you have had success with it, how have you used the technique?

Valentine>I goodness, I have listened to his music while at work, and have skimmed all the books

Pan>Well, actually, I first learned to use it while doing the visualizations with the Ecstasy CD. So you see how all this stuff starts to blend together?

Valentine>His first book takes a while to get to the actual exercises!

Pan>Exactly, and in all honesty, the technique is the only thing I'm recommending here.

Lopez>Visualizations with the Ecstasy CD? What would you visualize?

Pan>Now, in my opinion an easier and more effective form of Amygdala Clicking is a technique called "Joy Touch" which is in a book

Valentine>Oh yeah, I need a book list from you too!

Pan>Called "Accessing the Joy Center of Your Brain." It teaches how to stimulate the septum pellucidum. I personally prefer this method over Amygdala Clicking.

Valentine>We need to put Pan in a dungeon with a pen and some paper for a week!

Pan>LOL!

Pan>Well, just leave me a descent bed and a bottle of lube on your way out...

Laly>:)

Pan>Oh, RE: the Ecstasy CD...

Valentine>I don't think a bottle of lube has ever been requested by a potential detainee.

Pan>Basically, I would visualize as vividly as possible, my KS sessions exactly as I wanted them to be, whether solo or with my wife. By doing that

Pan>well, in my case please make an exception! :D

Pan>but yeah, it's like they say "a picture is worth a thousand words" well your subconscious responds to

Pan>imagination a LOT faster and more deeply than to mere words.

Lopez>ahhh so you would do this while listening to the brain entrainment CD?

Pan>EXACTLY.

Lopez>Nice

Pan>Because the entrainment puts you into a hypnotic trance and makes you receptive to whatever you're imagining.

Pan>It's an alpha/theta state, perfect for hypnosis, not to mention

Pan>it's adds quite a kick to erotic fantasies! :cool:

Lopez>Now for that list of books... ;)

Laly>(agrees with Pan)

Valentine>Oh wait, about the entrainment, have you used other programs? like braingen, or something like that?

Pan>Thank you Laly. I'm glad you're still with us!

Pan>Oh yeah, TONS. I've made some of my own too.

Laly>thanks pan

Valentine>Have you been successfully been able to train your brain and get to desired alpha/theta/beta/delta levels WITHOUT the cd program?

Pan>Yep. It's simply a matter of practicing self-hypnosis, simple relaxation techniques and such.

Pan>Brainwave entrainment is just a quick fix way to get there, but all kinds of things create those states like music, Tai Chi, Yoga, etc.

Pan>In fact, if you've ever been in "the Zone" of KSMO, then you've put yourself in an alpha/theta state.

Valentine>ok, BOOK LIST!!! :)

Pan>Ever notice how dreamy you get while staring at a camp fire? Fire flickers at a rate consistent with Theta state.

Pan>"dreamy" that is.

Pan>Ok, OK! Books, yes books. Well, obviously there's

Laly>(i have)

Pan>Frontal Lobes Supercharge by Neil Slade and Accessing the Joy Center of Your Brain, by...(forget - check Amazon),

Pan>of course the absolute must is the free pdf file by Gary Craig available at emofree.com,

Valentine>*prepares amazon for massive spending spree*

Pan>then there's "Affirmations" again, just search amazon...

Pan>and of course, I have stacks of self-hypnosis books, but I highly recommend anything by Igor Ledochowski. Even though technically, his focus is on conversational hypnosis, it's a great way to learn how to communicate with your own subconscious, and

Pan>there's saladtd.co.uk where you can get an awesome Ericksonian Hypnosis card deck (great for playing with friends and family).

Valentine>!!!

Pan>Um...

Valentine>Holy crap, its like christmas!

Pan>guess that's it off the top of my head.

Pan>actually you can just google affirmations and get the general idea, probably don't need the book.

Jack>That deck sounds VERY cool, Pan!

Pan>but more than anything I would most recommend

Valentine>What are your thoughts on 'acupressure for lovers'. You have a post here about it, have you expanded upon it since?

Pan>getting involved in Energy Psychology (EFT) communities like yahoogroups and such. It's amazing how much free and helpful info is out there. And yes, the card rocks. My wife and I love it.

Valentine>saladtd.co.uk does not work. :(

Pan>It's a good solid book, but better if you're formally trained in acupressure (I took a course at the author's school). I would say EFt is probably better for most issues that the book addresses.

Pan>lemme check the site real quick. BRB..

Laly>(if you are comfortable touching self that is pan)

Laly>*touching

Pan>ok, just google this - "ericksonian hypnosis card deck salad"

Pan>LOL Laly! :)

Pan>Igor Ledochowski has an even better card deck, but it's hard to find.

Laly>sorry i still have that issue pan -- left over from rape i guess

Lopez>Salad: Provides training and products relating to NLP, Influence, Hypnosis, Happiness & Success

Pan>But I would recommend his first, especially with his manual "Deep Training Trances Vol 1." they work as a pair.

Pan>Laly you're not the one who should be sorry.

Jack>vgp imho Pan!

Laly>well it goes back to when i mention i hated EFT pan

Pan>thanks Jack. Just keepin it real. :o

Jack>Oh yeah, I hear ya Bro!

Jack>WAY Real!

Pan>Yeah laly, please say more about that (if you want to of course)

Jack>Thanks for another great Panesque Bibliography!

Pan>LOL, can't seem to escape them Jack.:rolleyes:

Laly>:)

Laly>i downloaded and read the eft manual

Laly>from link u gave me long time ago

Pan>Laly, are you familiar with the "Tearless Trauma Technique" at emofree.com?

Laly>no

Pan>It's designed specifically for clearing issues that are too overwhelming to get close to emotionally. You might wanna search the term there.

Laly>k-- what i mean is-- i have a hard time with the physical part of eft

Pan>how so?

Laly>touching certain pressure points?

Pan>you mean like tenderness?

Laly>tapping them

Laly>no== doing it period

Laly>afraid to

Pan>ok, I hear ya. In that case, try searching this term there "touch and breath" or "TAB" you might find it more soothly. That's what I use mostly, especially for panic attacks and it almost puts me to sleep!

Laly>ok

Pan>You can even pretend to touch the points, without actually doing it.

Laly>have a block that energy medicine is not helping me undo

Laly>sweeet ;0

Laly>:)

Jack>Yeah good one imho Pan about not actually doing the physical touch just yet!

Pan>yeah Jack, actually there are other systems that don't use touching at all like ZPoint.

Laly>look how long it took me to do the single caress for KSMO

Pan>Laly, by "energy medicine" do you mean like Reiki or...?

Laly>a year or more :(

Laly>yes pan

Laly>like reiki

Jack>[thanks Pan re: Zpoint - hadn't heard of it]

Laly>me neither

Laly>k this woman has been up for 19 hours now

Pan>It's fairly new, created by Grant Connolly. It's entirely

Pan>done in with words and phrases, either out loud or or even just in your head. It's very, very gentle.

Laly>kewl

Laly>*bids all nite -- i'll check that out pan, thanks

Pan>sounds like someone has earned herself a nice long sleep!

Lopez>Light and Love Laly

Pan>sure thing. Feel better Lal.

Valentine>Indeed. Night Laly! Much love and sweetest of dreams!

Laly>*beams at lopez,, love n light HUGS

Laly>nite Val HUGS

Laly>no worries k :)

Valentine>HUGS

Laly>nite pan and Jack

Pan>sleep well Laly

Jack>Ni' nite Laly!

Jack>Hi argadnel! (who's off reading a post methinks).

Lopez>Pan, how do you prepare for a KSMO session? E.g. do you set the scene/mood?

Pan>usually, yeah. It depends on whether it's solo or with my wife first of all but

Pan>I like to have soft lighting if it's night, and I have a few Tantra-style ambient music cd's that I like to use

Pan>my wife LOVES candles, other than that... like I said earlier, it's all pretty automatic at this point.

Pan>I guess more than anything, I prepare myself to welcome whatever my body has to offer during that session.

Lopez>hehe.. ok what was your preparation like in your first year of practice?

Valentine>How long do sessions last for you? both solo and with the wife.

Pan>oh good questions.

Pan>Well, RE: time - solo sessions are typically 45-120 minutes and with my wife, closer to 90 minutes or so.

Pan>When I was beginning KSMO, I would prepare by

Pan>getting as comfortable as possible (I was in a LOT of pain back then),

Pan>and assuming the knees up position as per protocol, and then simply relaxing and breathing for a few minutes, and above all

Pan>choosing the mind-set of "Enjoy And Learn From Whatever Happens"

Pan>Generally that all took about 10-15 minutes before my first caress.

Pan>Is that helpful Lopez?

Valentine>so, you weren't that fancy in the beginning.

Lopez>Very, thanks Pan

Pan>LOL! No way! I was just playing around and exploring. I had no idea it was even going to work!

Valentine>Well, I have to say that I am surprised at how short your sessions are!

Valentine>I honestly thought the numbers would be bigger, and switched.

Pan>In fact, I didn't think it would for me at all, and even if it did I expected it to take MONTHS of practice. So it totally caught me by surprise when my first multiple happened.

Lopez>haha what were you expecting Van? 24 hour marathons? :)

Pan>Actually, the numbers WERE much bigger in the first couple years

Valentine>Hell yeah, I imagine Pan as a freaking love machine!

Pan>back then, 3 hours was typical for a solo session. But over time

Valentine>the Love-inator

Pan>I found that I would reach what I call the "Saturation Point" faster and faster. By that I simply mean

Lopez>the "point of all return" :D

Pan>that I would reach a place of DEEP satisfaction where I could keep going, but I don't have that burning desire anymore.

Pan>OMG, that's AWESOME Lopez! :eek:

Valentine>Oh, lopez brings me to another good question, how often do you ejaculate now?

Lopez>POAR!

Pan>Couldn't have said it better. Someone put that on a plaque and sell it!

Lopez>i'll gladly trade that in for a multiple of my very own ;)

Pan>Generally, I ejaculate about once every week or two weeks depending. But I

Pan>just follow whatever my body wants me to do. I never make an effort to "retain" my semen.

Jack>[BTW, from Pan's own lips, another guy reports that when the Grand Opening (Part 1) happened, it was a total surprise. Goes to that VERY consistent theme of I wasn't expecting anything and then it happened!]

Pan>Totally Jack. I started that session expecting nothing more than the one before it. When it happened, it totally overwhelmed me.

Pan>brb...

Jack>Way to allow the fawn to come to YOU! ;)

Valentine>That burning desire to not keep on going, what happened to it? I honestly got freaked that in exchange for deep satisfaction, you lost some desire.

Jack>That's another great example about trading in that chasing after orgasm pattern that is SO typical - for men AND many if not most women.

Jack>(i.e. Pan's example).

Pan>(back)

Valentine>I think Mog goes for a few hours, and its every day!

Jack>Say a little more about your concerns and what you fear you're losing, if you would pls Val.

Pan>Val, it's like being a sponge, that deep NEED for satisfaction. That's why I call it the saturation point. Over time I learned to reduce the size of my sponge. ;)

Valentine>but, you don't have to, right?

Pan>Have to stop pleasuring myself? Of course not! LOL! Val, if it puts your mind at ease

Pan>I still enjoy marathons on a regular basis. For solo, my record is roughly 8 hours, with my wife it's about 7 These are recent figures by the way. Feel better now? ;)

Valentine>yes, very much!!!!

Jack>I also found that once you really get into the Zone of realizing VISCERALLY that you really CAN have ALL you want, that a kind of peace within all of that intensity occurs, that helps dissipate the concerns you're expressing, Val.

Pan>My point was just that in years 1 & 2, I felt like I NEEDED 2 or 3 hours every day. Now, I might reach a place of total Nirvana in 30 minutes on a good day. And yes, to me, that's a GOOD day.

Pan>Absolutely Jack. Like lopez said, The Point of All Return. Gawd, I love that!

Valentine>ok, yes, that makes me feel better.

Pan>Kewl :cool:

Valentine>you still have desire. :)

Jack>i.e. that visceral knowing and the unprecedented intensity of some of the waves, plus the sensation that it truly is fractal (the doors beyond doors beyond doors)... A calm knowing flows in that displaces some of that anxiety that we're all so used to from previously - that awful feeling of Is that all there is?

Valentine>You just don't feel like you NEED to keep going, but you totally can.

Jack>With the Multiple Orgasm Trigger(tm) the answer is No! There's more! WAY more, and all you can stand - even MORE than you can stand!

Pan>YES Val! EXACTLY!

Jack>Yeah Pan I agree re: Kudos to Lopez for The Point of All Return! Well DONE Lopez!

Pan>LOL! Well, I mean - what Jack said :D

Jack>;)

Jack>And I mean what Pan said! LOL!

Valentine>Ok, how do you handle the long sessions? do you pause to eat/drink/use the bathroom?

Pan>ROFL!

Jack>There are MANY facets to this gem!

Jack>That's why in Eastern Tradition it's likewise referred to as the

Valentine>What is your longest session?

Jack>Blossoming of the Thousand Petalled Lotus.

Lopez>sounds amazing Pan !

Pan>Personally, I like to start with an empty stomach and empty bowels. I do have to pause for pee breaks regularly, but it's no big deal. And

Pan>I always have food ready to eat for the end of the session to help bring me down. This is incredibly important when my wife and I make love because

Pan>we tend to get REALLY high/ungrounded afterwards, and food really helps bring us back down to Earth.

Jack>Feasting!

Valentine>do you still use the aneros? OMG I could ask you questions all night!

Pan>OH YEAH! :D

Jack>Foodgasms!

Pan>LOL!

Pan>Yeah, I do still use the Aneros, mostly the Eupho, about 2-4 times a month or so.

Jack>:D

Pan>Those tend to be marathons. LOL!

Pan>In fact, that's one area where I just recently learned how to reduce my sponge!

Valentine>you didn't answer how long your longest session was!!

Pan>It used to take a looong time to reach my saturation point with the Aneros, but recently I learned how to find it and reduced my sessions from average 4-6 hours, down to about 90 minutes.

Pan>LOL! OK, OK! here's the breakdown -

Valentine>wow

Pan>Solo - 8 hours Intercourse - 7 hours Aneros - 8 hours approximate guesses.

Valentine>Man, I'm still at 20 minute practice sessions. :)

Valentine>I can't wait to get up to those numbers.

Valentine>'yeah, I can go for a few hours.' ;) at cute girlie

Lopez>oh the vanity!

Pan>KS Mantra - Grant me the wisdom to love each minute as it comes. :D

Valentine>have you tried any of the things that darwin at the aneros forums is doing?

Valentine>or read zaneblue's book, 'the orgasmic diet'?

Jack>[re: Pan... and comes and comes and comes and...] ;)

Valentine>That's a nice mantra, I have already gotten some good stuff from KS, nicely logged in my blog

Pan>Haven't read the book, but plan to. I do take fish oil. RE: Darwin's techniques, well we have some in common i believe, however,

Pan>at this point I more interested in what i can with that incredible feeling of LIFE FORCE Jack was talking about, and in my experience, physical techniques are irrelevant when it comes to manipulating that kind of energy. In fact, they're not even necessary. I get off just thinking about making a KS or stimulating my Third Eye or Crown Chakra etc.

Pan>Hence the visualization, Ecstasy CD, Hypnosis, etc.

Valentine>whoa, crown chakra stimulation?

Jack>That again goes to the at will level of Adept ability.

Jack>[re: Pan's comment]

Pan>Right Jack!

Pan>Yeah Crown Chakra, I find i can most easily stimulate it and my Third Eye simultaneously by stimulating my septum pellucidum.

Pan>And of course, the Key Sound helps to drive that kundalini energy upwards even more.

Jack>For the readers, how about also in plain language re the s. p. area, Pan, if you would please. :)

Jack>How to find it.

Pan>Oh sorry Jack, ok well stimulating the SP (what am I Tom Cruise over here?!?) is part a technique called the "Joy Touch" which

Pan>is in a book called something like "Accessing the Joy Center of Your Brain," by.. -one moment I'll get it...

Jack>RE: who are TC - he's not eeeeven close to you, Brother!

Pan>Pete A. Sanders is the author.

Pan>Anyway, in simple terms -

Valentine>I really could stay up all night asking questions, but I am hungry, and tired. Dang body! Why do you need sustenance now?!

Pan>all you have to do is first find pictures of where it is located in the brain, the septum pellucidum, it happens to be pretty much exactly behind your third eye point

Valentine>Anyways, thank you Pan, it was like a dream come true. Good night all. :)

Pan>in roughly the center of your brain, slightly higher than the amygdalae, and all you do is simply

Pan>imagine that you are tickling or massaging or otherwise stimulating that area, and the result is a cascade of pleasure-inducing / mood-enhancing endorphins, and potentially

Pan>near-continuous orgasmic states of being.

Pan>Nice to meet you Val, take care. :)

Pan>And well, it's very easy to combine this Joy Touch with the KS or the Aneros or even just while relaxing with your eyes closed.

Pan>any questions? :p

Pan>Oh for the record, the book title is "Access Your Brain's Joy Center" by Pete. A. Sanders. Sorry kept saying incorrectly before.

Jack>Whew! Thanks Pan!!! These guys have really worked you over, tonight, LOL! :)

Pan>Sooo, anyone else wanna take the podium? Jack maybe? ;)

Lopez>Pan, what advice would you give yourself if you were just starting out with KSMO?

Lopez>;)

Pan>OMG, Lopez, that's a great question! Wow. Lemme ponder a sec...

Pan>Well, I think I tell myself to Relax and enjoy the process, and (as someone once told me long ago) to think of this practice as a process of REMEMBERING what my body ALREADY knows, and ALLOWING it to TEACH ME.

Pan>That and generic water-based lubes are just as good as the brand names, but much cheaper! :D

Lopez>Hahaha ;) And lastly, what would you suggest is a good way to clear expectations (i.e. that which scares the fawn)?

Pan>Oh wow, that's another great question. Ok, well my short answer would be EFT. Use it to release the underlying causes of expectation (dissatisfaction, doubt, impatience, obsessive need or desire, performance pressure, etc).

Pan>That or simply read through the forum and find the posts of those who are now veterans, but once posted as newbies. And trust that one day you'll be one of them. :)

Lopez>I'm sold :) I'm very grateful for your assistance. Thanks again :cool:

Pan>I'm always glad to be of service. ;)

Pan>Jack?

Jack>Yeah I'm here! :)

Jack>RE: The forum searches... I'm happy to say that

Jack>at long last that will be easier now, with Google site search. And

Jack>the goofy ads on the search results page will be going away very soon, as soon as vbmtor can get to it. :)

Lopez>(is it just the three of us? Jack, Pan and myself?)

Jack>Thanks Lopez for being here tonight and asking all of these great questions that help us teach so many others as well.

Jack>RE: We three, that's what it looks like on my screen.

Jack>Can't be 100% sure as that list doesn't always update just yet. I've posted the tweak request

Pan>Yeah, those were some wonderful question Lopez, thank you for keeping me on my toes.

Jack>to vbmtor's task queue.

Lopez>;) I look forward to discovering my POAR - point of all return :D

Jack>And thank you Grandmaster Pan for all of your great answers, references, and giving so generously

Jack>of your wisdom and experience!

Pan>ROFL! Oh that

Pan>'s good!

Jack>Thanks Lopez for the remind about that GREAT meme The Point of All Return! You have birthed a classic!

Pan>(bows humbly again to Sensei Jack) :)

Jack>Pan, you still have the same email, may I email you and perhaps set up a time at your convenience for a phone chat?

Pan>Absolutely classic!

Jack>Would love to do some catching up if you're open to it.

Pan>Of course! Please do brother!

Pan>Always! :)

Jack>k, thanks! You'll hear from me soon, and Lots of Love to both you and Amy, and to sweet Myrrh wherever his spirit may be frolicking.

Drew>Oh man, you guys are still here!?

Jack>OMG Drew, just signing off!

Drew>Hey Pan... Long time, no chat!

Pan>Thanks man, and please give my very best to Jackie.

Drew>Good to 'see' you here!

Jack>Check the archives for a hugely Pan-tastic chat! LOL.

Pan>DREW! Hey man!

Lopez>3 Adepts and Lopez... it was meant to be :p

Jack>Jackie says send it right back to you Pan, and looking forward to seeing you and Amy again one day b 4 2 long.

Drew>Just on my way to bed here.

Pan>For the record, Drew was one of my mentors as a newb.

Pan>Sounds good to us Jack, Amy says the same.

Drew>I was? I thought I was learning from you!

Jack>For the record and the readers Drew, when did you first connect to the Forum and this practice?

Jack>LOL re: learning from Pan. We were definitely passin' the teaching back and forth in those days, and still are!

Drew>I'm not sure... Over ten years ago; closer to twelve (I think)

Jack>My memory re: Drew says around 1995 / 96... that about right Drew?

Drew>Yes, I agree with that.

Pan>Oh yeah Drew, reading how long you had been practicing in the forum when I first started taught me not to have expectations. You were my big inspiration to just "go with the flow."

Pan>If I hadn't read your work before I started, who knows how long it would have taken me to have my first multiple.

Jack>Ok, system says Drew joined the original O'Reilly Forum May 9, 1997, which was 5 days after my 49th b'earthday and 4 days after that first Forum came online.

Jack>But I think you already had the tape from 1996.

Pan>I really can't thank you enough for putting yourself out there way back then.

Drew>There was activity before that though, right?

Jack>Drewski, you have been here since in front Brother! :)

Drew>:D

Jack>Yes, we had a listserv, at least, and IRC I think

Pan>(bows humbly to Sensei Drew)

Drew>Awwwww.

Jack>Lopez you're talking to the still young! ooooooold timers tonight! ;)

Jack>[Much mutual bowing and grins] :D

Lopez>hehe... its good to reminisce. By my 60th I'd have had 35 years of KSMO practice ;)

Lopez>in the year... 2043 :p

Pan>LOL!

Jack>Yeah you be SMILIN' by then, Bro!

Pan>Don't you mean 35 years of POAR experience?

Lopez>oh yeah.. 35 years of POAR (i'll be more aware of the words I choose :D)

Jack>Lopez rewrite that sentence about I'd have had and change from the subjunctive or conditional or whatever it's called to the AFFIRMATIVE: I will have had 35 years!

Jack>See? After 7.5 hours in chat today, I'm still on my J!

Jack>;)

Jack>c'mon dude... let us ol' timers see you type it! :)

Lopez>I will have had 35 years of POAR!!

Jack>YEAH Baybay!

Pan>Ah, nicely done!

Lopez>what an acronym... hehe given that it rhymes with roar.. which is what I see myself doing through the KS at my peak experience

Drew>Well, I'd better hit the hay... Good to connect with you guys for a short while.

Jack>Way to visualize!

Pan>I just love it as an answer to the infamous PONR. It's brilliant.

Jack>Hey Drew, thanks for poppin' in for a quick one!

Jack>Very Sweet to have you be part of tonight's chat!

Drew>YVW

Lopez>ciao Drew

Pan>Great seeing you again Drew. Have a good one. :)

Lopez>Jack, you might as well Gold Nugget this chat once its archived

Jack>Are guys, are we wrapped for tonight? Thanks again Pan for all you brought tonight, and for ALL you have brought here over the years!!!

Drew>U2 Pan

Pan>Heck, i wanna POAR on the front page! :D

Jack>U 2 DREW!

Drew>I'll have to make sure I read this one myself.

Pan>My pleasure Jack. Literally! And yeah, I'm ready to wrap if you guys are.

Lopez>haha I wanna POAR all night lonnggg

Jack>Ok, boys, that's it then! Thanks again to each of you. Now let's all run and play (in our own good time, of course!).

Drew>Good night all... See you again soon!

Pan>LOL sounds good. Take care guys, happy KS'ing.

Jack>u 2!

Lopez>great chat.. I'll be idling here for a few.. so if you get lonely Lopez will be here to comfort you! ;)

Jack>Thanks for minding the Chat Room Lopez... I'm out for now! She be right, mate!

Lopez>See you later esteemed alligator!

Jack>After a while, panda bear! ;)

Jack>Ni' nite! ;)

Lopez>ciao Senor Jack

Jack>Hey Lopez, just passing thru to drop a quick note in vbmtor's inbox and say a quick hi to you. Hum dinger of a chat last night, eh? :)

Jack>All done! Talk with you later. Thanks for keepin' an eye on the chat channel! No worries - JJ

Jack>OMG another nite owl! Hey Pan GREAT chat last night. Time for me to drift into the DreamWorld for a while, though. Thanks for all you shared last night. Talk with you soon. ;) JJ

Lopez>Ttyl Jack.. Yeah it was great chatting with yourself and Pan :D

Lopez>Hi Pan

Valentine>Last night's chat was perhaps the greatest ever!

Valentine>When is it gonna be made into a transcript?

Laly>made into a transcript?? you mean posted to the forum Val?

Laly>I can't answer that one; however, you can download an archived text file of chat for yourself (that goes for anyone)

Laly>Just click on the word archives in the bar right above chatbox

Laly>and then on the left side of the screen - you will see a "view all shouts" link

Laly>click that and select general shouts

Laly>then go to the bottom of chat area and on the right side is

Laly>download shouts: xml/cvs/text

Laly>i use text

Laly>and it will be saved as a general shouts chatbox file on your computer

Jack>G'day Lopez!

Jack>Hey Pan... didja get my email sent 1/19, 10:37pm?

Jack>Allo vbmtor! Skypez-moi stp... ;)

vbmtor>Salut Jack

vbmtor>je suis au boulot donc je ne peux pas

vbmtor>Je t'ai rÈpondu pour le problËme Ultracart

Jack>compris, vbmtor, merci, Salut!

vbmtor>DÈsolÈ de ne pas pouvoir t'aider :(

Jack>Pas d'prob, n'egares pas ton boulout :D

Jack>Merci pour guerir Raw ChatBox Transcripts! :cool:

Lopez>Gday Jack :D

Jack>Gday Lopez!

Lopez>productive day?

Jack>Moderately so, thanks... Hit a few licks and Took a little time off... :) And you?

Lopez>Woke up quite late.. I've only been up for a handful of hours. Had my meditation/KSMO session.. although it was largely interrupted given that my body couldn't find comfortability in the seated position I usually take

Jack>Maybe your bod wants a day off. :)

Lopez>When my body starts to focus on those kind of niggles (small aches and pains), the mind noise tends to pour in :P No matter.. there's always tomorrow :D

Jack>Exactly!

Lopez>Thats a good way of reframing it Jack.. my body wanted a day off

Jack>Yeah I think so... re: day off. ;)

Lopez>I will probably have some quiet time later to visualise my next KSMO session..

Lopez>Are you up late or awake early?

Jack>Up late... Re: giving the body some rest... You may have heard of the classic psychology experiment where some researchers (I don't like animal testing, but here's the story anyway) hooked up electrodes to the lab rats' pleasure centers in their brain and then gave them a lever to tap, and every time they did it was in effect an orgasm, a pleasure ping. Did you ever hear of that study?

Lopez>Yep.. Pavlov?

Jack>Dunno for sure if it was Pavlov or just Pavlovian methodology. Do you recall what the rats did?

Lopez>They starved to death :D

Jack>Pavlov's classic was the ring the bell, feed the doggie, then eventually when the bell rang the doggie would salivate in anticipation of the food.

Jack>re: rats yeah starved to death or fell over dead from exhaustion.

Jack>A word to the wise, eh? :cool:

Lopez>Which reminds me.. given how intense Mog's session seem to be.. we should send some food over ;)

Jack>Yeah! LOL.

Jack>I hope he takes a day off once in a while.

Lopez>but yeah.. impatience creeps in from time to time. I was talking to a friend earlier and mentioned how I am programmed to expect linear results with linear effort. Given that KSMO is fractal/non-linear, it gives me a great opportunity to develop patience and develop appreciating for something which is truly a lifelong journey

Jack>Yeah, that's a very healthy attitude towards it. Also,

Lopez>and an affirmation that Pan shared with the forum yesterday: 'Grant me the wisdom to enjoy each and every moment in my experience'

Jack>people forget that history of previous Adepts shows that very interesting things can happen spontaneously on the days BETWEEN practice sessions. And even or especially when riding a thoroughbred, it's prudent not to ride it to death! :)

Lopez>I intend to use over and over again :D

Jack>Yeah that's a nice affirmation!

Jack>LOL re over and over again.

Lopez>True, and the repeated testimonial: "I wasn't expecting it and then it just happened!"

Jack>Yep! That's what I mean about the days off. Sometimes big surprises happen. That's why I added the day off between suggestion to the Protocol.

Lopez>:) I've also had to reframe my reception of Echo Effects from "I want more" to "this is it!"

Jack>Yeah you can give yourself the option to explore the ever finer nuances of the ones you're experiencing instead of reaching for a next one.

Jack>And again... leaving some open space just to find out what your parasympathetic body systems may give you on their own... i.e. when the fawn comes to YOU.

Lopez>ohh... that's a good idea!

Jack>;)

Lopez>Yeah I've had my moments.. where the energy rushes quickly from the base of my spine up into my head.

Jack>I mean, aren't you just a little bit curious? ;)

Jack>Yeah that's knockin' on the door of your Crown Chakra... the Thousand Petalled Lotus about to bloom.

Lopez>And other times where I'll just feel joyous.. and times where the energy moves into and out of various limbs

Lopez>Then the noise kicks in ;)

Lopez>I'm very curious :D These orgasms are my birthright!

Jack>The noise might be the brakes comin' on... may be your parasympathetic system asking you to take your foot of the accelerator for a while and coast... A challenging pattern to learn for Western males (and prolly most males altogether in this day and age!).

Lopez>"take your foot off the accelerator for a while and coast" - well at this stage I don't feel I have had any sexually arousing Echoes and have not felt the experience of amping arousal with the KS. I've always interpreted the noise and only that.. just noise.

Jack>What kind of Echoes have you had?

Lopez>I would call them, energetic Echoes. Tingling, energy movement, rushes of energy, and hot/cold sensations with this energy movement.

Jack>Are you using any direct stimulation at all?

Jack>Single touch / caress, that is?

Lopez>At this stage, I haven't been using the single touch/caress.

Jack>That's probably why you haven't experienced any sexual Echoes.

Jack>Welcome Newest Newbie pegasusjunior!

Jack>Hi Mog!

Lopez>:) I had intended to listen to the seminar for the perineal caress that you recommend.

Jack>Sure. Also keep in mind though that a single caress of any area that feels pleasant to the touch can move things along.

Jack>Doesn't have to be genital.

Jack>Can also be secondary erogenous zones too such as nipples, etc.

Lopez>I'll keep that in mind. Thanks Jack

Jack>You're welcome! Well I'd better get some rest. Nice talking with you! Ttyl, Lopez, Mog, and vbmtor!

Lopez>Ciao! :cool:

Jack>A bientÙt! ;)

Jack>Hi Kutso! I've just responded to your Forum post. :)

Laly>hi jack :)

Jack>Hi Laly!

Laly>saw a great movie today and had a nice session this afternoon

Laly>no orgasms but that's okay-- nice echos

Jack>Great! What was the film?

Laly>"peaceful warrior"- true story -- based on Dan Millman's "way of the Peaceful Warrior book

Laly>After our discussion saturday nite- it hit home for me

Laly>about mind noise and our supposed perceptions of how we live

Laly>what is taught to us, ingrained in us

Laly>which is not 'really' ours

Laly>it is also the basis for the FC method

Laly>to find our 'true selves'

Jack>Hmmm that DOES sound intriguing. I wonder how I could get a chance to watch it.

Laly>i was thinking - but a few myself-- hand them out

Laly>not sure quality of skype webcam--

Laly>;)

Laly>*buy a few

Laly>Amazon.com: Peaceful Warrior (Widescreen): Movies & TV: Scott Mechlowicz,Amy Smart,Nick Nolte,Ray Wise,Karen Landry,Bart Connor,Paul Wesley,Agnes Bruckner,Tim DeKay,Tom Tarantini,Tyler Vogt,Jim Bradley,Beatrice Rosen,Charles Grisham,Matthew Prater,St

Jack>FC sounds a lot like "Family Sculpting" developed by David Kantor as well as by Virginia Satir back in the 70's. I'd be curious to know the difference.

Jack>thanks for the link!

Laly>yw

Laly>yeah-- FC is known by many methods and names

Laly>this movie IMHO gives best description of what internal struggles a person goes thru

Laly>to truly be happy with self

Jack>VERY cool! I'm really glad it's helping you so much!!!

Laly>thanks

Laly>as i mentioned in my blog-- i am focusing self on next FC and counseling session

Laly>(in 2 weeks)

Jack>That is EXCELLENT Laly!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!! btw, I need to excuse myself now, as I need to finish lunch and take my afternoon walk with Jackie before it gets any later. It still gets dark pretty early up here in BC! :)

Jack>bfn, HUGS!

Laly>ok-- bfn HUGS back

Jack>Thanks! ttyl...

Laly>hugs to jackie too

Lopez>Laly, the fruit salad that Dan & Socrates ate toward the middle of the movie sure did look very tasty!

Max>Hi all, I'm newly registered and I just wanted to say hi. I received my cd last week & I'm looking forward to my journey. I've been an aneros user for a couple years & I'm looking forward to expanding my horizons here.

Lopez>Hi Max! Welcome to our community ;)

Max>Thanks, I've seen the KSMO protocol on the web for a couple years, and finally decided to get on board.

Lopez>We have quite a few users who have experience with aneros & KSMO. You might like to check out posts by users Pan, Mog & Hlaser99

Lopez>As you acquaint yourself with the Key Sound and the protocol, there a few (free) services I would urge you to utilise:

artform>Welcome Max. I too joined KSMO after first starting with aneros last year. I think you may find the two practices quite complementary and mutually re-enforcing.

Max>Ya, there are several that talk about it on the aneros site and recommended it, so here I am.:D

artform>Welcome. That's a typo not an accent!

Max>Hi artform, nice to see you here. I GTG, but will be back later.

artform>Hi Lopez

Lopez>1) The Key Sound Validation Service Area (found at the Forum Home Page); and 2) Fortnightly chats; 3) Blogs

Lopez>Nice to meet you Max :D Hi artform

artform>See you again soon Max

artform>How are you doing Lopez?

Max>You too Lopez, thanks for the welcome. TTYL

Lopez>I'm good artform.. in fact just about to head out the door myself: heading to an 86th birthday lunch :cool:

Lopez>ttyl ;)

artform>Your's?!!

artform>Thanks. See you later too Lopez.

mog>Hello Max - welcome to the forum! Good luck with your KSMO adventure.

Lopez>Hi Jack & pilot

Jack>G'day Lopez!

Jack>And Welcome Back PILOT!

Lopez>G'day mate.

Jack>I hope you're have a good day! I'm just popping in b4 beddy bye to check in our our Man in Paris and Resident vB Sorcier - vbmtor. :-)

Lopez>Ok Jack.. when you do decide to sleep: i wish you many pleasant (and possibly lucid!) dreams

Jack>Thanks very much, and you too!

Lopez>:cool:

zeitgeist>Mog - Your latest post was truly wonderful!

zeitgeist>surely you are lighting the way for the rest of us!

mog>Thanks zeit! I feel the need to write about my stroke of luck in finding Jack's KSMO.

mog>I hope I don't put others off in my documentation of my passing Terrors!

mog>They have been small beer comparatively.

Jack>Hey Grandmaster Mog! NOW you're starting to get a CLUE of what I'm talking about!!! ;)

Jack>CONGRATULATIONS mate! :D

Jack>Please note any posts that find to be very cool and informative as Gold Nugget with non-idiosyncratic key words and key phrases so the Google indexer will pick them up for our site search. Thanks... ttyl! Sorry I missed you this time.

Jack> That request goes for ANYONE who finds a post particularly helpful, informative or inspiring!

Jack>G'day again Lopez... PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE IN THE NEW SUGGESTION BOX POLL http://www.multiples.com/howtolastlongerinbed/post7631-1

Jack>Special Greets to Newest Newbie Jakobu, welcome back pilot, G'day Lopez, et bonjour vbmtor!

Jack>AND to Now Newest Newbie jack24, with a Warm Welcome Back! to wildfox, and a warm Hello to Laly!

Jack>Hello to mjt and to Grandmaster OMG MOG! [vbmtor: get to work! ;)]

mog>Goodday Jack and vbmtor! Maybe you could help: On my chatbox pane my chatbox text doesn't return; so I have to scroll across the long sentences. On other days the sentences return OK. What currently happens on your chatbox display? Is this something I can deal with at my end?

mog>This does seem to be a local effect. I've just reduced the type size setting on my Firefox browser - that seems to have done the trick. I'm sure I tried this yesterday without effect. Anyway, false alarm! I can now read without horiz. scrolling, although the text is rather small.

mog>The forum is buzzing nicely these days!

Jack>Sorry I didn't see you there Mog, I was behind the curtain working. that horiz

Jack>scrolling happens when somebody such as I posts a long link since links don't wrap.

Jack>G'day Lopez!

mog>So perhaps the best way to use the box is to fill it,

mog>send that and continue in the next box - like this.

Jack>Yes mog that works as long as there's a space, it will wrap but if there is no space, such as in one of those long links, then it expands.

Jack>BTW, vbmtor, Father of our ChatBox, has just sired a new generation of the ChatBox, which he will be installing shortly.

Jack>Hey Mog Man - Clement needs to close the Forum for about ten minutes to upgrade the ChatBox!

Session stop: Sat Jan 26 00:18:19 2008