• laly, Hlaser, garfield6, tandello, and PoohBear join Jack for a discussion of the KSMO protocol and experiences in counseling.
• garfield6, who is resuming practice after trying it a year ago, finds difficulty staying on protocol and feels to urge to switch to masturbation. Jack, laly, Hlaser, and tandello enter into a discussion with him on relaxation and allowing the experience as opposed to going for it.
• laly discusses her history with the KSMO protocol and the issues she has faced as an abuse victim.
• laly and the group discuss her fear of bringing up KSMO in discussions with her counselor.

Session Open: 20070422
Hlaser> Yo!
Hlaser> Hey Laly!
laly> howdy hlaser
Hlaser> How are you feeling today?
laly> pretty good
Hlaser> Marvelous!
JackJ> Ok!
laly> hi jack
JackJ> Hello and welcome!
Hlaser> Hi Jack . . . never say that on a plane!
laly> soo happy to have chat back
JackJ> Yeah me too. A little bit of a learning curve but not too bad.
JackJ> What would you each like to discuss today?
JackJ> Gotta question, or an experience you'd like toshare?
Hlaser> i have been chillin' and working on projects, so I haven't been doin much...
laly> i would think a focus chat at newbies or even veterans who are going at slow pace and 'not feeling anything' significant
laly> I seem to be reading alot on that topic lately in the Vbulletin.
JackJ> Which one shall we address first?
Hlaser> Yea, what happened to Wiki?
JackJ> It's right where it's always been.
laly> yep.
Hlaser> I realize, you must go with the numbers and they seem to be at Vbulletin right now...
Hlaser> True?
JackJ> http://www.multiples.com/orgasmwiki/Main_Page
JackJ> Ok... I'm happy to answer any questions about practice or about the site. Just state the question and I'll do my best. :-)
Hlaser> ok
Hlaser> i pass the stick
laly> I notice that not many are posting in the Wiki site- i think that's what Hlaser was referring to.
Hlaser> Thanks Laly!
JackJ> Yes, that seems to be the case. It's there as a resource for any who want to use it, and the wiki is happy to receive articles posted by anyone who wants to.
Hlaser> A resource!
JackJ> It's happy to receive anyone's editing efforts to make it more readable or the information more accessible.
JackJ> That's the idea of a wiki as I understand it - collaboration.
laly> I know myself is included in that group- just so much is going on with me I just don't know where one starts and other ends.
Hlaser> I know that sometimes I am in a hurry and just want to catch up in 5 minutes and don't know where to go..
JackJ> Do you mean in the wiki, the Forum, or??
Hlaser> For a quickie fix of KSMO News...
Hlaser> I get lost!
JackJ> For the latest posts to the Forum, if you're not logged in, just click Today's Posts on the horizontal menu bar.
JackJ> If you ARE logged in, then click New Posts on the horizontal menu bar.
JackJ> Please let me know how we can make navigation even easier!
laly> hi garfield
Hlaser> Hi Garfield
garfield6> hi laly
JackJ> Hey garfield, welcome! Glad you could make it today. Where are you typing from?
garfield6> hi jack, i am from germany
Hlaser> Cool!
JackJ> Great! I'm glad you could make it today...
garfield6> got your email and test the chat
laly> great!
garfield6> it's really easy with mirc and your guide to join
JackJ> I'm very glad to hear that. :-)
laly> me too- that is what Jack and I were hoping for .
Hlaser> Took me a couple of tries...
Hlaser> I am a hard case, tho!
garfield6> your are all in for testing or I'm stumble in a regular chat
JackJ> garfield, if you don't mind, would you tell us your approx age, marital status, orientation, how long you've been practice the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol, plus any questions you may have. ALL answers are OPTIONAL in this discussion. :-)
JackJ> You stumbled into a regular chat! We're here to answer your questions and help you tune your practice.
garfield6> I'm 35 , single , trying your guide one year ago
JackJ> BTW, hlaser, I'd be very int'd to know where you get stuck in trying to navigate, and what you think would make it easier. You can email me about it if you like or maybe after we give our newbie garfield6 a chance to talk, we can then take up the navigation issue. Would that be ok?
Hlaser> sure!
laly> i think it may even help garfield6 - navigation of the websites too Jack,
garfield6> starting one year ago, and resume a few weeks ago
JackJ> Definitely Laly. It will help everybody. I need help from you guys to know where the stuck places are and what would make it easier. Thanks hlaser!
Garfield6 (may I call you "G"?), what questions do you have about your practice? What are you noticing since you resumed?
garfield6> it's really hard to concentrate on protocol and not to shift in old pattern
JackJ>What's your old pattern?
garfield6> masturbation
JackJ> Yeah that's very common. There's certainly a lot of pressure of habit, as well "the urge". What happened during your last Multiple Orgasm Trigger practice session?
JackJ> What did you experience?
garfield6> after a few minutes on protocol I get the urge to want more
garfield6> and lose the protocol
garfield6> the best one experience was light tingles
JackJ> Yes, that URGE is a pivotal decision zone in the practice.
JackJ> Where did you notice the tingles?
garfield6> i cannot localize exactly but i mean at the prostate area
JackJ> Ok... it's great that you ARE noticing some awakening of the response.
JackJ> It can be helpful to approach practice
garfield6> but i think there are no new sensations
laly> OH OH....
JackJ> as an exploration, rather than having a goal of getting off or nailing the Big One during the actual session.
JackJ> Have you been able to continue the practice for 20 minutes without switching to high stimulation?
garfield6> think it's was like long masturbations sessions when I was very young
JackJ> How so?
JackJ> In what ways?
garfield6> in my life time I had a few multiple orgasm, and this was like this
JackJ> when you say "a few multiple orgasms" do you mean multiple ejaculations?
JackJ> I ask that because it's important to distinguish between the ejaculation reflex and the purely energetic rushes of feeling that are orgasm.
laly> hi tandello- welcome.
tandello> So have I finally been able to connect to the chat?
laly> yes you have and happy u are here.
JackJ> Hey tandello, welcome! Pls say to hlaser (Florida),
Laly (sorta-mid US), and garfield (Germany).
JackJ> Yes you have indeed, tandello. I'm glad you made it!
tandello> Thank you. Today has been a surprising line of complications getting here. Is it possible to see the conversation thus far?
JackJ> Send me an email with "tandello" in the subject line and I'll email you the transcript so far.
Hlaser> Belated Hi! Tandello!
laly><is chuckling,
JackJ> laly prolly has one.
laly> in fact - i do jack -that's why i chuckled.
JackJ>Thanks for the backup!
laly> your welcome.
JackJ> laly, could you pls email it to me and when I hear from tandello I'll fwd it to him.
JackJ> Thanks.
laly> sure.
Hlaser> G's discussion with Jack was fascinating!
laly> yeah- sorry to interrupt garfield6 - please continue
Hlaser> the multiple orgasms!
laly> need a repeat of jack's question?
garfield6> I wrote ahead :-) , this experience was dry ejaculations with long orgasms and go further to the next without regeneration and I mean the KSMO training tingles are similar with this rare one
JackJ> BTW, garfield, would you pls answer the questions I'd asked - that is, IF you're ok with doing so. ALL answers to any question anyone ask are ALWAYS OPTIONAL.
JackJ> Hey that's a VERY good sign that you are noticing similarities!!!
JackJ> That's VERY encouraging, imho.
garfield6> but I'm far away I think
laly> from???
JackJ> THAT is MIND NOISE.
Hlaser> How old were you, when these took place?
garfield6> could be 15 or so
JackJ> G, if you're sitting there repeating the mantra: I'm still far away, I'm still far away, etc. Then guess how that affects the results?
Hlaser> Amen!
tandello> It sounds as if you
garfield6> Jack your right, but thats I'm feeling in the moment
JackJ> 15 years' experience has shown that you CANNOT PREDICT the results, either as to what or where, or to when.
laly> very true jack.
JackJ> Yeah I hear you G. As you probably realize, your current challenge is an emotional one, not a physical one.
JackJ> I've often said that the biggest challenge to learning this skill is NOT between the legs, it's between the EARS.
Hlaser> True!
JackJ> i.e. dealing with the Mind Noise... the doubts, all of the inner yakking that can go on.
JackJ> Gotta witness G, from hlaser!
Hlaser> Your mind throws ALL the switches for all else!
JackJ> How is that true for you, hlaser? How does that manifest for you?
JackJ> The Mind Noise?
Hlaser> oh!
tandello> it sounds as if you're saying that any thought that introduces fear, anxiety, tension, frustration would take you further away from the desired experience. In fact, it seems that one might
tandello> say that desire should be the 'goal' rather than the path to the 'goal' of ESO because the sense of not obtaining the 'goal' or even thinking of the 'goal' creates separation from the experience.
laly> very well said tandello
JackJ> Yeah I agree.
JackJ> It's a question of how you FRAME the practice.
Hlaser> Yes that!
Hlaser> Thanks!
JackJ> It's VERY natural in the beginning to have a frame of expecting to nail the Big OneS during an actual practice session.
Hlaser> And the Path is as important as the goal!
laly> if you come to the practice with-"oh i dont think anything will come out of this" then ... well is possible set for failure from the start.
JackJ> The REALITY is that MANY if not MOST of the Great Leaps Forward in intensity of the Echo Effects tends to happen BETWEEN practice sessions!
Hlaser> the body knows!
JackJ> Given our pre-KSMO pattern of self-pleasuring, we're used to expecting to ring the Bell DURING the session.
JackJ> But... and here's one of the Secrets of the Ages:
JackJ> The purpose of the 20 minute practice sessions is NOT to experience huge new orgasms DURING the practice sessions...
garfield6> you're right that is a little what i was seeking for
garfield6> and thats the failure
JackJ> The purpose of the 20 minute practice sessions is to AWAKEN the SPONTANEOUS Echo Effects (e.g. tingles, etc.) a LITTLE bit more.
JackJ> Just a LITTLE bit more.
JackJ> That's VERY different than a typical masturbation session!
Hlaser> Not failure!
laly> not failure garfield-- just now you know that...can make adjustments.
tandello> there is a curious known effect that happens with learning any new physical motion. Whether it is learning to walk, run, somersault, dance, roller
tandello> skate, etc. that the first time or two can be quite clumsy, but if you have given it a good try, the next time out is much easier. It takes time for the new
tandello> discipline to be integrated into the neural pathways. The more relaxed the learning steps are, the rapidly the integration occurs.
JackJ> G, I agree with Hlaser: It is NOT "failure" - FRAMING it that way IS the issue.
laly> thus the term jack used 'mind noise'.
JackJ>Yeah I definitely agree with tandello, garfield... Note the ROLE of RELAXATION.
Hlaser> The repetition forms new neural pathways...
JackJ> If you're fretting and fussing and labeling stuff as not enough or as failure, then you're prolly not relaxing!
Hlaser> True!
JackJ> Instead, explore FRAMING the practice sessions as an OPPORTUNITY to learn a LITTLE bit more about yourself and your response capabilities.
Hlaser> I relax and let my body guide me!
Hlaser> Breathe and observe!
JackJ> Yes!!!
JackJ> And to FRAME the purpose of practice not as going all the way, but instead the purpose is to
garfield6> laly, I stumbled a few times in the description 'mind noise' and could not understand what that means and now it looks like I have this and didn't' realize this
JackJ> ALLOW the SPONTANEOUS Echo Effects (initially, tingles, warm- or cool rushes of energy, etc.) to AWAKEN a LITTLE BIT more.
JackJ> Yeah that's a good strategy hlaser!
Hlaser> observe the fawn
laly> glad we could help clear that up for you
garfield :-)
tandello> I think think that the orgasm is such a potent reward that we tend to get frustrated by not experiencing it pronto. This is a big source of subtle
tandello> conflicts in the bedroom (who cums first,etc). Also, it creates that straining to attain or racing as jack comments on in is CD's. It's as if, if i don't get
tandello> there I'm going to die. Usually the harder you try to attain even during traditional lovemaking the less satisfying it is. I think this is
laly> and please do not hesitate to ask questions in the forum at ANY time.
JackJ> Right on, tandello!
JackJ> Garfield, did you get what I suggested about changing the FRAME of practice to one of EXPLORATION... of learning to notice those tingles,
JackJ> etc. a LITTLE bit more - in the service of GRADUALLY ALLOWING the AUTOMATIC Echo Effects to AWAKEN a LITTLE bit more?
Hlaser> the Journey...
JackJ> It is a very very common pattern reported by many that the stronger feelings tend to happen SPONTANEOUSLY and most often BETWEEN practice sessions!
laly> yes-
tandello> One of the curious things I've noticed when I was initially doing the practice regularly, was the development of a deep post-coital sensation in my
tandello> penis that would last throughout the day. I was even having spontaneous erections as I did in adolescence.
JackJ> However, if during a practice session you shift to high stimulation and end with ejaculation, then that's like popping an electrical fuse, rather than allowing the energy to BUILD.
JackJ> Yeah walking tall, eh tandello? :-)
JackJ> That's a very cool report!
JackJ> That's what I mean by AWAKENING.
laly> *giggles and blushing deeply.
Hlaser> When you're relaxed and not trying...you can more easily feel the effects... (between sessions)
JackJ> Garfield, the purpose to the 20 minute practice sessions is to SET THE STAGE for the response to AWAKEN FURTHER.
tandello> The curious part about it was that i wasn't looking for it. It just happened.
laly> yep- exactly tandello!!
JackJ> Yeah I really agree with what Hlaser said. That's a Very Important Point!
JackJ> HEY EVERYBODY NOTICE WHAT TANDELLO JUST SAID.
Hlaser> Yo!
laly> i did <beams proudly.
JackJ> Garfield, what tandello just reported is THE MOST COMMON THEME as this deeper more full-body arousal AWAKENS FURTHER.
JackJ> attagirl Laly, you're a quick study! :-)
Hlaser> Isn't she!
JackJ> yepper as Drew would say. :-)
laly> awww ..is blushing furiously now.
JackJ> Garfield, is what we are saying helpful to your understanding?
JackJ> Allo?
garfield6> laly,I stumbled a few times in the description 'mind noise' and when it is written it sounds clear, I hope I get back on track, it's really
garfield6> good to talk with you. I've a good feeling
garfield6> sorry folks thats my mistake
JackJ> No apology necessary!
JackJ> No shame!
laly> your welcome
JackJ> No Blame!
laly> yeah no shame allowed!!
laly> no BLAME!!
JackJ> This is ALL NEW for all of us.
JackJ> This is a NEW MAP.
laly> take it from a lady who's done that .
JackJ> We've ALL had to clear a lot of brush from the trail.
Hlaser> Life-long Journey...
JackJ> And ADVENTURE!
JackJ> Garfield, please approach each practice session wondering what LITTLE NUANCE you might notice, rather than having an expectation of making orgasms happen.
Hlaser> There are periods that seem like no progress...
garfield6> could it be that the start is always the hardest ?
laly>always?? hmmm not sure on that
JackJ> Approach the session with the intention of RELAXING, making good, husky, gentle, relaxing Key Sounds at the appropriate times as specified in the
JackJ> Protocol, and then just NOTICING what little tingles or other sensations appear.
Hlaser> But behind the scenes progress continues and then a Breakthru!!!
JackJ> That's exactly the pattern, in my experience!
JackJ> And that's the pattern that seems to be documented in the Forum and Wiki the most often.
tandello> I'm curious if this procedure has been done with paraplegics. In the literature regarding cord injuries and sexual responsiveness, there is often a
tandello> description of an account of someone who could orgasm through a particular touch on the neck. if a christopher reeves would have someone touching his neck, while
tandello> doing the KSMO, could that 'train' him into a sexual responsiveness?
laly> if i may in part share a little of my story with garfield n tandello jack- i think garfield may relate a little to my start as well
JackJ> I believe that David Ramsdale, author of Red Hot Tantra and other works, is paraplegic. He wrote a very supportive comment about this method in Red Hot Tantra.
JackJ> The challenge for paraplegics or quadriplegics is more often the breathing issue.
JackJ> And yes, if you have ANY feeling ANYwhere on your body, then you've got a chance of experiencing this.
tandello> so any part of the body could be eroticized?
laly> OH YEAH!!
JackJ> If a person has no sensation at all below the waist, they may nevertheless feel the sensations ABOVE the waist.
laly> definitely!
JackJ> They may also have sensations that SEEM to be below the waist, similar to phantom pain or phantom sensation - more or less like the mind PROJECTS that
JackJ> SENSATE IMAGE into an area of the body which is no longer neurologically alive.
JackJ> Yes ANY area of the body. Orgasm is NOT an exclusively genital experience!
laly> no - i can testify to that MANY TIMES.
JackJ> Yes Laly, you wanted to share some of your story with garfield.
laly> Garfield , first of all thanks for making me smile today- am glad to be of help
tandello> so you're saying that we can practice this technique, while sitting in a quiet corner of the beach perhaps and sensitize or ear lobes or eyelids or whatever?
laly> yes tandello
tandello> so do we get to hear your story?
laly> yeah
laly> lil background first
laly> 36, single , female
laly> sexually abused for many years as a child
laly>sexually assaulted at age 16 by boyfriend at the time.
laly> so views of sex were rather 'distorted'
laly> and thoughts of it terrified me to point of anxiety attacks.
laly> (sex i mean)
garfield6> )-:
tandello> this is always so sad to hear that someone has had to go through this. I'm sorry this had to be your experience.
laly> and to be around men i couldn't do it.
laly> thanks tandello- but you know what- i wont change what happened to me
garfield6> I found no words for that
laly>because OF it - i am the person i am today-
laly> and with the help of KSMO - am learning to love myself
laly> let go of the anger. resentment
tandello> yes, I can understand that, after all you have had significant healing it sounds like.
laly> the healing is still ongoing tandello.
tandello> was learning to love yourself a result of the KSMO or did you do other things as well?
laly> result of KSMO
laly>like Jack said …KSMO opens to many new doors
laly> energetically and emotionally
laly> when i would hear of someone being able to openly caress the genital area (sorry to the day i cant say the c or v words)
laly> i would break out in tears - cause i wanted to be able to do that with myself
laly> but the abusers words and mind noise would come on .
laly> and the words Jack said= force should NEVER be a part of protocol would reverberate in my head
laly> so i didn't touch myself - but i kept my focus on what i was feeling at the time
laly> So i guess what i want to say is- i came to practice with a totally OPEN mind and heart
laly> put all that other stuff n locked it away
laly> no expectations or limiting behaviors
laly> to cloud out the echos
laly> the tingles, the euphoria.
laly> it wasn't til my 6 th or 7th practice that the memories of the rape began to seep into the practices
JackJ> (i.e. Emotional Furballs - unresolved trauma)
laly> thanks jack-
JackJ> (didn't mean to interrupt... pls continue if you wish)
laly> and I came to a KSMO chat and revealed it to jack - what i just told you all just now
laly> with the guidance and support of fellow KSMO member Drew and Jack
laly> (and a LOT of tears and struggles)
laly> i am seeing a wonderful counselor who is helping me deal with
laly> on just how to BE a woman
laly>I grew up in a neighborhood of boys
laly> no female role models to learn what it was to be a girl/woman
laly> *sighs and wipes tears.
JackJ> Whew. Way to claim The Power of Your Story, Laly!
laly> So- I can say KSMO changed my life
laly> in more ways than i had hoped
laly> it made me WANT to live life again.
garfield6> garfield is emotionally affected about your story
JackJ> Are you doing ok with it, garfield?
JackJ> (and: **Thank You** Laly)
garfield6> don't know what you mean, jack?
JackJ> You said you were emotionally affected. Wasn't sure what you mean by that.
laly> garfield - thank you
laly> but you know what tho
laly> despite that experience- my heart is one of the biggest you'll find in the Forum-
JackJ> That is FOR SURE.
Hlaser> Amen Sister!
laly> the old adage- what does not kill you, only makes u stronger
JackJ> When you CLAIM it, and YOU HAVE!
garfield6> emotionally affected was the only words I found in my little speech collection
garfield6> it's hard to find the right words in a not native language
Hlaser> You do very well, G...
laly>KSMO has become a 2nd family to me
Hlaser> A very friendly village!
laly> i agree with Hlaser .
garfield6> thank you for open your heart
Hlaser> The mechanics of KSMO has no language as we all know it...
laly> your welcome- i dont know if the sun is shining where u are garfield
Hlaser> The ancient language is encoded in out genes!
Hlaser> DNA I guess???
laly> probably hlaser.
garfield6> hope my genes can remember that :-)
laly>my heart is singing and shining like the sun right now.
JackJ> Thanks garfield... I understand re: the language issue, thanks for speaking English here. :-) I asked that question because sometimes when someone
JackJ> shares a story of abuse and recovery, it may trigger painful feelings in the person listening. So... just checkin! :-)
garfield6> It's not painful, but it's a very sad story with a maybe happy end
JackJ> Garfield, has this given you a more helpful understanding of how to frame your KSMO practice? That is, to approach it as an exploration, rather than a
JackJ> session that will directly produce intense orgasms right away. Please remember what tandello said: The big steps forward happened when he least expected it
JackJ> and not necessarily during a practice session!
JackJ> Yes G, thank you for your kind heart! You are with kindred spirits here!
laly> uh huh...same here - in fact were stronger in between , when i recalled the prior day's KSMO session.
JackJ> Did you get that, garfield? The Echo Effects often SPONTANEOUSLY appear BETWEEN practice sessions and in these instances, are often STRONGER!
garfield6> so I will push me discourage away and go ahead with me practice and give it the time
JackJ> That is why in the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol I recommend at least one day off BETWEEN practice sessions - to give the AWAKENING multiorgasmic
JackJ> response system some BREATHING ROOM to expand.
laly> awesome to hear garfield!!
JackJ> Rather than trying to suppress the feelings of discouragement, I am hoping you will experience a new understanding that will allow your emotions to shift so that you understand
JackJ> that in the early stages of practice the Echo Effects tend to be rather subtle, faint, and maybe even not particularly erotic.
JackJ> This is TYPICAL. Further progress and intensification of the responses occur when you allow the way you are FRAMING your experience to SHIFT to one of knowing that
Hlaser> I sometimes use my KSMO sessions as a way to chill and relax...some quiet time...
JackJ> the practice session is just to give things a gentle nudge - just a little push.
JackJ> Yeah that's a great FRAME, hlaser!
JackJ> Relaxation is a CORNERSTONE of ALLOWING the responses to BLOSSOM.
Hlaser> Kind of directed meditation...directed at my sexual well-being...
laly> uh huh.
JackJ> When you plant a flower, it is not further to just stand there continuously pouring water on it and then expecting it to hurry up and grow. :-)
Hlaser> It'll turn into orgasms on its own time table!
JackJ> You water a little, and then you let nature take its course. Then you water a little more, and then allow the process to continue on its own a bit. Then a little more water, and so on.
laly> that is a great reference Jack.
Hlaser> Some people look at this process as a "re-wiring"process...
PoohBear> Woot!
laly> hi poohbear- welcome.
Hlaser> After you are re-wired you will be able do things and orgasms that don't exist to you now!
JackJ> Hey WELCOME POOHBEAR!!! I'm glad you made it!!!
garfield6> Jack sounds like a good comparison. Another little question: Thats an is there a minimum for training sessions, like your maximums?
tandello> I've thought of it as rewriting the software for the hardware... at least for men.
Hlaser> Yo Poo!
JackJ> Thanks, Laly, re: reference kudo. :-)
PoohBear> (listens, nods silently)
laly> minimum-??
PoohBear> Hlaser, Howdy!
JackJ> Yeah hlaser, I agree re: the rewiring metaphor. That one resonates for me as well. DEFINITELY a rewiring of our Cognitive Maps.
garfield6> minimum like once a week at least
PoohBear> Uh Huh.
Hlaser> Hi
laly> OOH- thought so garfield-
laly> i think that is up to the individual
PoohBear> Rewiring = Learning?
Hlaser> I can relate to the software thing, Tangello!
JackJ> There's no rule about a minimum, but I recommend two or three times a week, unless your intuition is guiding you differently. There are no rules about this, just guidelines.
JackJ> Yep tandello, that software upgrade also resonates! :-)
Hlaser> Electrician vs. Software Man...LOL!
laly> smiling with tandello- i can relate to that as well
JackJ> garfield, do you feel we have answered your questions and concerns in a way that gives you a next step in your practice?
PoohBear> (reading back) Hi, there laly. Thanks for being the first to welcome me.
laly> your welcome PoohBear
garfield6> thanks jack and all of you, I have many input to work on it
laly> i notice MOST things
laly> lol.
JackJ> Garfield, I hope you'll post your practice reports to the Forum so that we may continue to support you in your practice.
PoohBear> With a little help. I am now doing IRC. It's my first IRC, but this seminar was not my first unusual orgasm.
tandello>IRC?
laly>hmmm… curious on the 'unusual' orgasm reference poohbear.
laly> internet chat relay= IRC
JackJ> How about you introduce yourself a little, while maintaining anonymity of course. Give people a little background on your age, location, marital
JackJ> status, orientation, etc. ANY AND ALL are strictly OPTIONAL. That's a standing rule here. :-)
PoohBear> laly, I've had just a few on my own initiative.
laly> just curious as to the term 'unusual' poohbear
PoohBear> I had one this morning, one a few weeks ago, a few years earlier. I Joined the KSMO board just a month ago.
laly> is there a USUAL orgasm??
laly> that i am unaware of??
JackJ> LOL. Only the old fashioned way, imho.
PoohBear> Sure, like blowing your mind again. One develops an expectation.
garfield6> Jack, I will do so. And by the way thats a very good chat time for europeans
PoohBear> Say again time, garfield? When's good for you all?
Hlaser> Me too in Florida
PoohBear> I am GMT - 4 hours.
PoohBear> (giggle) Or your nose! The same. But good.
JackJ> [garfield: GOOD! RE: chat time will Saturdays work for you? Possibly starting an hour earlier to maybe give our eastern European, middle eastern, and African friends an opportunity also?]
garfield6> thats sounds also very good, thats Saturday at 7pm
JackJ> Saturday at 1700 UTC?
PoohBear> Saturdays been very very good to meeee. Er, 7 PM is 1900, right?
JackJ>Or did I get that conversion right? Gimme a minute to verify.
Hlaser> Sat. 1:00 P.M. in Florida, OK for me too!
laly> tandello - i relate to your software up grade comment- just not men need to re learn - but women too
laly>k- talking Greek to me now- tuc??
laly> UTC? lol- see :P
PoohBear> Gosh, my friend D said she only had one orgasm her whole life last night. We talked for hours.
laly> poohbear- some women report as not having experienced any in their life
PoohBear> Yeppers, laly.
Hlaser> I think sometimes one's intellect gets in the way of our inner pleasures!
JackJ> http://times.clari.net.au/
JackJ> yeah 10 am PDT would be 1700 UTC I believe.
PoohBear> Way to go, Hlaser, don't over think it.
laly> i have lost count in the 2 years of KSMO the # of orgasms I've experienced
Hlaser> exactly!
JackJ> Laly UTC = GMT - UTC = Universal Time Code.
Hlaser> Did we loose our chat clock we used to have?
PoohBear> Yay for laly. Hip hip hooray. My Schmoopie and I have lost track of how many we've shared.
laly> sweet!!
JackJ> Hlaser RE: intellect yeah, that's what I mean about the bigger challenge's not being between the legs, but between the ears!
Hlaser> right!
laly> just one session i stopped counting after 12 poohbear
Jack> Laly - I hope that women - especially other women also recovering from abuse - will take heart re: what you just shared!
JackJ> Hlaser - It's back. See link at top of home page. Direct link is: http://www.multiples.com/orgasmchat/...countdown.html
Hlaser> Trout on a fishing expo?
Hlaser> Great we should all put it in our Favorites!
JackJ> PoohBear - I believe you're pretty new at the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol practice. What has your experience been so far? Any questions?
laly> i just did (regarding chat countdown link)
PoohBear> That's why I am a Math major! Exercise those brain cells. Try 'em out. Try new things.
tandello> n years once. She was 27 when we started dating and had never had sex. We saw each other for six years before we had sex for the first and last time.
tandello> But we were quite frisky the rest of the time. She would never allow or couldn't allow an orgasm to occur. She would push and kick me away as one
tandello> approached. Much later she told me that at those moments she would always be outside of her body watching us and it provoked great anxiety.
PoohBear> Not yet. I practice guitar, so I know how to ride the learning curve. I am starting it easy.
PoohBear> Now I do have a long standing practice from Kundalini....
PoohBear> Wow, tandello sounds like my friend D.
JackJ> Tandello, re: the feeling of outside the body, that's a good example of the Emotional Furballs I refer to.
JackJ> Also relates to what I describe as Terror at the Gates.
PoohBear> Ooooh, Dante's Inferno!
JackJ> i.e., Terror at the Gates of Orgasm... a fear of loss of sense of self.
PoohBear> Or wanting loss of self too much?
JackJ> It's a road marker near the opening to the more intense orgasmic zones.
PoohBear> From Kundalini I have an ability to induce blackout. I used it to cure headaches. Once spent, the energy recharges slowly.
PoohBear> Total loss of self.
laly> hmm
PoohBear> But the Gates might be different. of course.
tandello> I've thought of all these spiritual angles. It could also have been disassociation.
PoohBear> For your lady, tandello? Disassociation?
tandello> Yes.
PoohBear> That is truly loss of self.
tandello> Yes.
PoohBear> My friend D had her one orgasm during oral while sleepy. She was uninhibited. My Schmoopie and I this morning tried that. She said "I was unfocused. No orgasm."
PoohBear> I had one once where I collapsed in a twitching heap. Wow. I was looking inward, I think.
Hlaser> Hmmm, indeed!
PoohBear> (listens)
Hlaser> What do you hear?
PoohBear> (nods head) Who me? Hummmmmmmmm
PoohBear> Or whooooosh
Hlaser> I am lost in here..
PoohBear> How can we help?
Hlaser> anyone have a flashlight?
PoohBear> Hee hee.
laly> poohbear means- he/she is listening to chat
laly> i am listening to soft music
PoohBear> Ah! I thought you meant at the moment of orgasm! Har de Har Har.. my bad.
Hlaser> It's poo playing guitar...
PoohBear> Hey! Who looked at my profile? (love it)
JackJ> Before we wrap up, does anyone have any other questions about practice of the Protocol, or experiences from it that they'd like to share?
Hlaser> You said you practiced...
PoohBear> Yeppers. Never too much nor too little makes for infinite growth and moments of joy.
Hlaser> Phantom feelings???
laly> i do Jack… that is if okay with everyone else
Hlaser> I sometimes get them where there is nothing present...
Hlaser> Go Girl!
PoohBear> Don't we all. Even my friend "D".
laly> the newbies may not understand
laly> tho.
PoohBear> Love your neighbor as yourself.
JackJ> Laly did you say you have a question?
laly> not a question per se- but more an experience to share
PoohBear> please...share.
JackJ> Yes, please do.
PoohBear> (tilts head)
laly> as jack has said KSMO awakens the body's sexual responses - i.e. echo effects
laly> the tingles, etc.
laly> once 'turned on' , cant be turned off
PoohBear> (nods)
laly> or ignored.
laly> about 4 months into my self-induced 'vacation' from active KSMO practice while i was starting counseling for related emotional issues i.e. furballs
laly> i started getting ANGRY with the echos
laly> didn't want to feel them- or couldn't deal with them at the same time i was working out the counseling side
laly>i mean REALLY angry
laly> furious
laly>i was like go away PLEASE
laly> i didn't know how to deal with both issues
laly> i mean how to do tell your counselor _ OH i am just experiencing echos
laly>or when bliss tears start to arise
laly> She still to this day does does not know about KSMO
laly> am unsure how to broach the subject with her
laly> especially with the abuse and rape background
JackJ> What's your concern about letting her know?
laly> that she wouldn't be totally open to the idea
JackJ> That she would prohibit you from continuing the practice?
laly> yeah
JackJ> Why not find out? Otherwise you're just holding the fear.
laly> true- but you know Jack just how hard it was to call her on the phone
JackJ> I'll be happy to provide her with a copy of the materials, and answer any questions or concerns she may have.
laly> to make the first appointment
JackJ> Yes I do remember how hard it was.
laly> for those that dont
JackJ> You did great! You got it done, didn't you? ;-)
laly> i was a total wreck
laly> shaking so bad i dropped the phone
tandello> The fear could be that someone you're trusting would not be accepting something that has been very helpful and enjoyable for you. If she can't
tandello> handle this, then it would be good to find another therapist. If she can, then you will have made major strides in sharing injured parts of yourself and open them for healing.
PoohBear> What comes to mind is mindfullness group. We do progressive relaxation. We call images up with tension. Then we relax the arm or shoulder or whatever
PoohBear> and let the image go. A little at a time, laly, just a little at a time..Exploration of trauma can re-traumatize. Gently forward...
laly> is not that i dont think she can handle it tandello- but may look at me in a different way
PoohBear> With one eye rather than both? No, I mean that.
tandello> Emofree.com is a great web site with easy to follow instructions for a very powerful technique to help minimize anxiety. The technique is EFT emotional
tandello> freedom technique. Again it is very easy to learn and can be quite powerful.
laly> tandello- i know- but EFT revolves around touch
tandello> Yes, but you can do the technique on yourself. alone.
laly> something that is very uncomfortable , even foreign to me
tandello> even for yourself
laly> uh huh
laly> :-( .
JackJ> Laly, when you were talking about dropping the phone etc., how did that turn out?
laly> well- once i calmed down enough to where i could talk and BE heard
laly> instead of a 33 rpm record played at 78 rpm speed.
laly> (for those that still remember records that is)
PoohBear> I do.
JackJ> Did you get to a place totally free of fear before continuing and completing the call?
laly> i made the appointment and worked out travel arrangements and a place to sty
laly> stay
laly> yeah- took a while
JackJ> So when you did call her you were totally calm and free of fear?
laly> are still times when i am up there - to this day that i say
laly> yes jack
laly> “can we say we went to see her and NOT go?"
JackJ> You still get scared sometimes?
laly> oh yeah
JackJ> What do you do then - do you go or not go?
laly> terrified - of shining the light in the dark corners
JackJ> Yeah I understand!
laly> OH- am not allowed to NOT go
JackJ> Not allowed by whom?
laly> Drew
laly> AND the fact that i would never forgive myself if i didn't
JackJ> So you're allowing Drew to Not allow you to not go?
laly> and gave into the fear instead
laly> NOOO
laly> not that AT all
JackJ> what instead? :-)
laly> He just re-affirms what i already know - in my heart
laly> that i need to go
JackJ> So he reaffirms, and then what do you do?
laly> that it is the little one inside who's afraid
JackJ> Yeah I hear her. :-)
laly> cry usually
JackJ> And after you cry what do you do?
laly> but in cleansing way
JackJ> cool!
laly> we head over to see her
JackJ> And you're completely free of fear at that point?
laly> altho i pause at the street and dread going to the door
laly> sometimes
JackJ> And the other times?
laly> my heart is light and am very open
laly> the joy is abundant
JackJ> cool!
JackJ> And the other times?
laly> it is the mind noise
laly> the abuser saying OH you are sooo....
JackJ> So when the mind noise comes up you don't go?
laly> i get afraid to not go
laly> that she'll pick up on those thoughts
laly> she’s intuitive that way
JackJ> Yeah I hear you. So you get afraid to not go, and that she'll pick up on that, being intuitive, so...
JackJ> then... you... don't go or ???
laly> that is the topic we then discuss for that session
laly> the one place i didn't want to go
laly>the one memory i didn't want to recall
JackJ> Oh! You mean sometimes you get really scared and you really really don't want to go, but...
JackJ> then you never go, or???
laly> i go- no matter what
JackJ> Oh
JackJ> My
JackJ> God!!!
laly> <starts to cry again
JackJ> You mean sometimes you're really scared but you go anyway?
laly>if i let the fear control my life like i had before
laly> yeah - exactly
JackJ> Oh
JackJ> My
JackJ> God!!!
JackJ> You feel the fear and DO IT ANYWAY???
laly> i find that lil bit o courage i know i have and hold onto it for DEAR life
laly> my beacon of hope
JackJ> I can TOTALLY dig that. Hangin' on for dear life...
PoohBear> They told me that was courage in the cult. Same words.
laly> the source of my un-ending supply of love
laly> which i share with everyone in the forums
JackJ> You mean sometimes you are way way scared to go but you go anyway?
laly> yes jack, that is what i am saying
JackJ> I thought that was what you were saying!
JackJ> Think that approach might work re: at some point cluing her about KSMO?
laly> afraid to face that one nightmare that i re-lived for 16 years night after night
JackJ> Just checking: was that your answer to my question, or are you thinking about something else?
laly> which part
laly> my last statement?
JackJ> Well you said that sometimes you get really really scared to go, but you go anyway. Did I understand that correctly?
laly> yeah u did
JackJ> Ok. Thanks. Then my question is:
JackJ> Do you think that same approach - to feel the fear IF it comes up and tell her anyway - might work re: letting her know about your KSMO practice?
JackJ> I'm not specifying any particular time frame, just a general question.
laly> yeah- in time
JackJ> Cool!
JackJ> Guess what?
laly> what?
JackJ> YOU get to CHOOSE when!
JackJ> YOU do.
laly> <laughs, yeah KNOW that
JackJ> Ok!!! :-)
laly>but to get to that WITHOUT blushing like a lil girl OMG
JackJ> Sometimes when we're scared sh*tless we forget that sometimes it can work to feel the fear and take the recovery step ANYway.
JackJ> Who wrote the rule that you're not allowed to blush?
JackJ> Do you mean feel some shame or embarrassment?
laly> embarrassment
laly> an area i have lil or no knowledge in
laly> i blush
laly> when asked about
JackJ> Do you think that approach of feeling the fear and doing it anyway might also apply to some times when you feel embarrassment you can,
JackJ> when YOU choose,
JackJ> feel the embarrassment and do it anyway?
PoohBear> Blush and say it anyway?
JackJ> Yeah, Laly, what PB said.
laly> i think IMHO
laly> it comes down to the fact that i had so little female interaction
laly> that is what is clouding the issues
JackJ> Probably so! That's a very helpful awareness.
JackJ> So what do you think?
laly> i can sit and discuss it with Drew and you guys to the dawn of time
JackJ> RE: my ?
laly> yes i do
JackJ> Do what?
laly> feel the blush but still talk about it
JackJ> EXTUHREEEEMLY KEWEL!!!
laly> but cant look her in the eye while doing so.
JackJ> minus one-half point.
PoohBear> So difficult for me too.
JackJ> Gotta witness, Laly.
PoohBear> But could you peek a little, laly?
laly> i try pooh bear- but soo hard
laly> to un-learn that
PoohBear> And then say something like, "I need to look at you now to say this." ?
JackJ> Yeah whoever told you it was easy was prolly mistaken.
laly> hmmm.. sounds ALOT like KSMO and unlearning HMMMM
PoohBear> Lots of unlearning. Yes. Can you say -- right now on keyboard -- "I am blushing, so look at me." ?
laly> OH golly
PoohBear> I think you can do it....
laly> i AM blushing poohbear
JackJ> But you don't have to!
laly> Takes DEEP breath
laly> types" i am blushing, so look st me"
laly> oops at
PoohBear> Ah, but she IS blushing! Yay Laly!
laly> *smiles
PoohBear> Good practice!
PoohBear> And if you stumble a bit when you say it to her, then...
laly> thanks
JackJ> Let's see if I understand you correctly: You're saying that sometimes it's ok to feel a lot fear about taking a recovery step e.g. saying something to your counselor and yet say it anyway.
JackJ> Did I get that right?
laly> yeah
laly> let the cat out of the bag
JackJ> Good, thanks. And let's see... also:
laly> expression
PoohBear> (giggles maniacally) I hear glass shattering, really. Walls coming down. And nobody got hurt.
laly> and poohbear- I was as red as a rose when u asked me to type that- just for reference
JackJ> Sometimes you may feel embarrassed, maybe rather a lot, about taking a recovery step e.g. sharing something new and private with your counselor,
JackJ> and yet say it anyway - maybe even with just partial eye contact - or even looking at the wall the first time if you need to.
PoohBear> Such a rose...
JackJ> Did I get that one correct too, or am I off base?
laly>well- not sure on the wall reference
PoohBear> Glancing away.
laly> OH
JackJ> If you felt you needed to, to get it said out loud.
JackJ> The first time.
laly> i look down at table
PoohBear> I play with my shoe.
JackJ> wall, table yeah... so are you saying that that's ok too?
laly> my eyes are very expressive
laly> to look someone directly- they could interpret what i am feeling at the time
laly> thus the 'fear'
JackJ> Makes perfect sense to me.
PoohBear> And then they'd know you are for real.
laly> uh huh
PoohBear> Bend but not break, laly?
laly> true poohbear
PoohBear> We are a tough crew. We oughta row boats!
JackJ> LOL
JackJ> So sometimes whether you're feeling fear or embarrassment or both it's still ok to go ahead and take the recovery step anyway? You're into doing that (when YOU choose, of course!)?
laly> yes jack
JackJ> How do you feel about that?
laly> another reason i am so grateful for KSMO for
laly> very uplifted
JackJ> Cool! Me too!
laly> to know that hey- it;s out there
laly> let's work on it now
laly> like here i am -
laly> this is me
laly> this is my problem
JackJ> yep and it's NATURAL that there are some strong feelings comin' with it.
laly> uh huh
PoohBear> Reasonable reactions to unreasonable situations.
laly> poohbear = the hardest thing for me right now
JackJ> You are SO INCREDIBLY COURAGEOUS, Laly!!!
laly> is accepting a genuine hug from anyone
laly> without panicking
JackJ> It can take a little practice.
PoohBear> I have a similar.
PoohBear> Yes, practice. I have something to share.
laly> am all ears PoohBear
laly> crud- pooh bear
laly> cant see thru tears - sorry
JackJ> No apology necessary.
JackJ> Who can???
laly> not me for sure
PoohBear> OK. I'll start by acknowledging it's... (tears will pass)... hard for laly to accept a hug. What is hard for me it to initiate one.
JackJ> me either.
PoohBear> And therein lies a story.
laly>care to share?
Hlaser> I was raised that way too!
PoohBear> Yes, I will. I have an abuse history, too. A cult experience of sex-negativity.
Hlaser> Business family!
PoohBear> Yes, my cult was a business cult. All handshakes and never a hug.
PoohBear> Family was military.
PoohBear> The cult taught me that the way to greet someone was with a firm hand shake. So I rebelled.
PoohBear> I got into dance class.
JackJ> [hint re: initiating a hug... ask the potential recipient if they'd like one, and respect their answer.]
JackJ> LOL way to rock the boat, PB.
PoohBear> Tried a lot of stuff. Then it hit me. A relative said I hugged too close. Now I have spent 26 years unlearning that. Righteo Jack.
PoohBear> Ask and it may be given!
Hlaser> Cool!
PoohBear> Now, what I do is come closer a little at a time. I was taught not to talk to strangers.
laly> (yeah - first guy that asked me that my jaw DROPPED)
PoohBear> So now when a stranger passes, I say Hi the usual way, then say what I really wanted to say *the moment I can let myself* I come closer each time.
JackJ> [That little at a time model is a great example of the check share check share model we've discussed previously.]
PoohBear> My Kim said I was blunt in high school. I am not blunt now. I am regaining my blunt, direct nature. A Little at a time.
laly> wow
PoohBear> I am stretching. Bending but never breaking. They key is -- counting seconds-- for me.
JackJ> [...and remembering to breathe while counting... :-) ]
PoohBear> Yeah. Even the Buddhists say to try it for yourself and see what is the result of your action.
PoohBear> The breathe is the counting. One wave, two, three, then let out the impulse safely. Next time, two waves.
JackJ> Thanks very much for sharing that PB!
PoohBear> 'nuff said.
laly> but well said poohbear- thanks
Hlaser> Interesting too!
PoohBear> Ha ha. Carpentry. Measure twice cut once. Relationships; check twice, share once.
laly> uh huh
JackJ> Good one!
JackJ> Ok! Does anyone have any final questions or comments before we wrap it for today? Hlaser, maybe?
Hlaser> Guess Not!
JackJ> PB? Laly?
laly> i think I've said enough
PoohBear> I have a question. May I change my password and have my therapist login as PoohBear one night only by agreement? Or may I copy the audio files and give
PoohBear> her one copy only? The whole world need not have copies!
JackJ> Log in to... the Forum or the chat?
laly> the forum?
PoohBear> To the Forum only.
JackJ> She can read the Forum without logging in, you know. Is there a particular reason why you'd want her to log in instead?
laly> yeah- she can just
laly> read- loggin in only for posting
laly> to forum
PoohBear> Oh, geez, Jack you;'re right. I forgot. What about the audio?
laly> the KS tracks??
JackJ> Yes, thanks for asking and honoring my copyright. You may make one copy for her. I'd appreciate her comments and questions in exchange. Not an obligation, but I'd appreciate it.
JackJ> One copy of the whole seminar. Not just the KS tracks.
laly> that's what i meant
laly> the KS cd
JackJ> And also very importantly, the pdf document.
PoohBear> She need not log in as me. She needs to know what I am working on. She's paid by insurance. I can't give her money. It's not allowed. I have to pay The
PoohBear> Man. I can't spot her the price of the CD. I would, though... OK, One Only and I will specifically give
PoohBear> her a note to write to you. Yes, a mini-CD with PDF, and the tracks as CD-audio.
laly> i lost my copy somehow - cant locate it anywhere
JackJ> The KS cd or the intro cd? I was talking about the intro program.
PoohBear> Who me? Intro only. I have only the intro files.
JackJ>Please remember re: writing or calling me - that's a request, not a demand.
laly>that's what i thought u had poohbear
JackJ> It's an invitation.
laly> the 1st one.
PoohBear> Of course. She is quite professional Yes, laly, only the intro. I have to start slowly. This is my life. Sex is how I pray.
JackJ> If she'd like to discuss it in real time she can let me know her number and best times to call and I will be happy to call her, since Skype is a free call.
PoohBear> She has done that with others by permission. Gov't providers with their permission forms and all that. Routine for me now.
JackJ> Email is fine too of course.
PoohBear> She has email, but I can't mail her due to HIPPA. She can mail with you, though.
JackJ> Laly, will you pls send me the log of today's chat? I upgraded the software and the Do-Log flag got unchecked.
laly> i sure will
JackJ> Thank you!
PoohBear> Sounds like folks are reaching for coats and hats...
JackJ> Thanks very much to all 3 of you for being here today, and to tandello and garfield as well!
laly> be sure to re-check that for next chat jack
JackJ> Yes PB, 4 hours at the keyboard is pretty much my limit for today. :-)
laly> 4 - omg that 's nothing
Hlaser> Me too!
JackJ> Yes I will test in between times, Laly.
laly> been here for longer than that
JackJ> Thanks again PB for the lead to that free IRC client for PC users.
PoohBear> Yay laly! Bye for now Hlaser and laly and Jack! See you on the Forum! Shees. It's late. Oh, yes, Visual IRC 2.0.
JackJ> Yeah Laly, closer to 5, eh!
laly> 7 now
JackJ> Yeah thanks for that, PB.
Hlaser> Bye ALL!
JackJ> Wow Laly!
JackJ> Bye Hlaser - sure glad you made it today!
JackJ> c.u. in the Forum!
laly> nite everyone
PoohBear> Good night Mrs Murphy and all the ships at sea .... this is Pooh Bear signing out.
JackJ> Have a great week, everyone. Happy Spring!
Hlaser> Is Visual free?
JackJ> Yes it is!
JackJ> That's my understanding.
Hlaser> mIRC wants $20
JackJ> Yeah, still a great deal but what the hey. Try Visual IRC, hlaser!
Hlaser> Does this take place of mIRC?
laly> http://www.visualirc.net/
JackJ> It would, yes.
Hlaser> ok thanks
JackJ> You can install visual IRC and try it and if you like it better you can just uninstall mIRC.
Hlaser> I have to be cheap!
JackJ> You're very welcome!
laly> there is the link for u hlaser
JackJ> Bye for now!
laly> bye jack
Hlaser> ok bye!
JackJ> bye!
Session Close