Session Start:
Jack> Hey there! Welcome!
tumoessence> hello this is my first time on the chat.
Jack> Welcome! Where are you typing from?
tumoessence> I am in the sacramento area, fair oaks.
Jack> Cool! Just a little to the south of me, here in Ashland. May I ask your approx age, marital status, etc.?
tumoessence> Yes I am 48 am married and have three children my wife is 33.
Jack> Great thanks! How long have you been working with the Multiple Orgasm Trigger info?
tumoessence> I have had the download for two months and don't practice a lot but am increasing the times a week I practice I have studied with M. Chia in the past and do Tai chi and other practices.
tumoessence> I bought your cassette version a few years ago and did not practice it.
tumoessence> I am trying to steer friends to this practice because I already know how valuable it is. In my little bit of practice I feel the echoes.
Jack> That's very cool that you are already starting to feel the Echo Effects. What are they like?
Jack> BTW, did you also download the pdf called "Protocol Summary Update" from Step One of the Main Downloads page?
tumoessence> No I haven't done that yet.
Jack> Ok... you should go ahead and download that pdf from the Main Downloads page as it's the latest summary/fine tuning of the Protocol, FYI. Please continue.
tumoessence> The Echo Effects feel like ripples of pleasure that move in very subtle waves. It is very subtle at this stage.
tumoessence> I do have a question though.
tumoessence> I am wondering if the quality of the practice depends to some degree how much the tank of jing or sexual charge is full for fruitful practice?
tumoessence> In other words I have read posts where people are reporting that they don't and I know I don't have erections necessarily during practice. But if I have ejaculated recently, I don't feel so inspired to practice.
Jack> Yeah I think that's definitely a factor. As is
Jack> whether you're practicing at a time of day when you have more energy generally,
Jack> versus, say, late at night when you're likely to be tired, etc. It's definitely
Jack> sensitive to your overall biorhythms.
tumoessence> Not to mention kid rhymes based on certain patterns of chaos.
Jack> LOL 4 sure re: kid/chaos. :-)
Jack> Have you happened to see Garth's recent dialogue with Pan and Rick, etc.,
Jack> in the Chat-Main Room Conference, Topic: "Lull? Backsliding?"
tumoessence> No i Haven't.
Jack> I recommend you check out that thread and join in with your perspective.
tumoessence> I'll definitely check it out.
Jack> It's about the cycles of energy,
Jack> and how some of us may have a tendency to expect results to increase in a linear
Jack> fashion, but the reality is that the Echoes may vary in a cyclical fashion, altho
Jack> overall, if things are going well and you're articulating
Jack> the Key Sound correctly and pretty much following the Protocol as described/recommended
Jack> in the latest revision of that pdf file, the overall pattern is likely to be
Jack> a perceptible increase in Echo Effects and general well-being over time.
Jack> Does that check out with you angus? You've made quite a few posts about this too!
angus> yes, i find things are cyclic. including moods and fancys'.
tumoessence> I can see how those play into the dynamics.
tumoessence> And I see that even if I don't experience so much as yet afterwords I feel great. I seem to be good at letting go with results and being with what is happening during practice.
Jack> That's excellent!
Jack> Yeah re: increasing the frequency of your practice, as I recommend
Jack> in that pdf, I generally recommend that you take a day off from practice between each
Jack> practice session, and that in the beginning, you limit your practice sessions to about 20 minutes
Jack> in duration, more or less. The
Jack> time off between sessions, gives your body and emotions a chance to adjust, integrate, and further open to the experience. Some
Jack> people (myself included) notice Echo Effects and various good feelings on the days off. The
Jack> other purpose of that is so one doesn't slip into a pattern of "trying harder" to "make" the effects stronger, which,
Jack> for the most part, tends to be counterproductive for most people.
Jack> Just FYI. :-)
angus> may i mention though that sometimes the key sound can come up with some unexpected echoes when you least expect it. so if tumo, you are pressed with time, i would consider even short practises, perhaps when you are not even up for it, to see what may come up for you.
Jack> Thanks angus, GREAT TIP!
tumoessence> I think I could do that and would look forward to that.
Jack> Great! It can also be
Jack> very interesting, when in a private setting, to
Jack> use a Key Sound when you're enjoying a great piece of music, or some delicious food, etc.,
Jack> that is, at times that may not necessarily be directly sexual, but when you are feeling positive
Jack> emotions. At times like that, the Key Sounds can really help you open up the responsiveness
Jack> of your heart area.
Jack> Please note I said, when in a private setting. :-)
tumoessence> I was wondering about that, practicing the KS at various times, and situations. I mean this seems like it can be sexual and so much more.
Jack> You got THAT right!
Jack> But since it does seem to awaken the sexual energy as well, I don't
Jack> recommend practicing it in public, or while driving, etc.
Jack> (altho driving may seem private... these feelings can be distracting).
tumoessence> awhh!
Jack> :-)
tumoessence> just kidding.
Jack> Got it. :-)
Jack> Informed mutual consent among adults is my guideline.
tumoessence> I am sorry but I have a kid's school obligation. I will check out the rest of today's transcript later and come back for another chat.
Jack> Ok. I'm sorry you gotta go, but I'm glad you checked in. Next chat will
Jack> be this coming Thursday at 6pm Pacific Time. I hope you might be able
Jack> to make it so we may continue.
Jack> Also... be sure to download that pdf file from the Main Downloads page.
Jack> Do you have the link info to that page, etc.?
tumoessence> I will make it a priority, actually, both suggestions. Yes I have the link.
Jack> Ok great! Meanwhile, pls post any experiences, insights, questions,
Jack> etc. to the Forum, for continuity and for the dialogue with others. It's
Jack> great meeting you!
tumoessence> Thank you Jack and Angus, yes I will.
Jack> "bfn" = bye for now. :-)
tumoessence> Bye.
Jack> Well Brother angus, how is life?
angus> it always amazes me how the people who come to your website are folk i can always relate to.
Jack> Yeah it's really amazing.
Jack> Hey Schwartz, welcome back! Angus and I are just checking in... welcome!
Schwartz> Howdy.
angus> i am a bit grumpy with the ibs at the moment. as much as i like spring and summer, they are my worst times.
angus> and that affects my practises.
Jack> Yeah, no doubt! what is ibs?
angus> irritable bowel syndrome
Jack> ohhh... bummer!
angus> which is highly irritating to the rest of me!
angus> stress is counterproductive in my sessions.
Jack> For SURE!
angus> but if i have a good session , i feel more relaxed after.
Jack> Most definitely. How long has ibs been an issue for you? Does the ibs act up in response to other stresses?
angus> 16 years ago i was exposed to some chemicals and ibs was one of my bodys reactions to that. and stress is part of the cycle; there are allergy problems associated and a few wild cards as well that make it difficult
angus> to get the whole thing under control
.Jack> I'm really sorry to hear that. :-(
angus> but believe it or not, ks has been a big part of my healing, as it seems to draw up those emotional things that i need to work through.
Jack> Oh I believe it that the Key Sound practice may help. I was hoping it would. That was gonna
Jack> be my next question... i.e., if you noticed the KSMO practice actually giving you any relief.
angus> well it does, mind you when an issue or 'furball' comes up, that is stress, so i have to be very gentle with the stuff that comes up, take it slowly or my guts can really act up.
Jack> Most definitely! When the furballs come up, then it may be a good idea to ease up on the practice, as you know... but
Jack> that said, a little GENTLE practice, without any forcing, might be comforting at times, too.
angus> the furball that has reared its head recently is one of conflict.
Jack> Between what and what?
angus> me and me!
Jack> You getting any professional assistance/support in dealing with these issues?
angus> i do have a counselor.it wasn't til i started ks that i noticed how conflicting many of my beliefs and attitudes were/are. now i am trying to iron out the big ones.
Jack> By "trying to iron out the big ones," do you mean you are addressing these
Jack> issues in your counselling process?
angus> i feel confident that everything is workable, it is just time i need to work it all out. i can see good things on the other side of this. and yes, in my counselling sessions and of course in my daily life, for that is where ultimately they are healed through.
Jack> Yeah,just like learning the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol, it's important to give yourself
Jack> the time you need, and not force. It can be a challenge with persistent issues... hard not
Jack> to get p/o'd about wanting to be THROUGH with it!
Jack> BTW,
Jack> You mentioned trying to iron out the big ones... what about the little ones? What's THEIR status?
angus> perhaps we need to expand our use of 'sounds' to help with the healing in other parts of ourselves. well little ones are just small pieces of the big ones jack. those are the daily life ones that become the 'arena' where the big ones are worked though.
Jack> Re: little being pieces of the big ones, yeah that's what I was checking on... :-) Had an
Jack> intuition about working some of the little ones might shift the stuff that feels big.
Jack> Also,
Jack> re: the Key Sound... most definitely I agree about the potential of using the Key Sound, which IS connected
Jack> to that Life Force energy more or less like "sonopressure" or "sonopuncture" (i.e. a variant of accupressure) directed
Jack> towards the area where the stress seems to be collecting. Also of course, the metaphorical level, i.e.,
Jack> exploring what's going on that you're having trouble "stomaching."
angus> in some ways those are the hardest. like trying to be patient in traffic..... i'll try a little accupressure and directing the sound to where there is tension and get back to you on that. 'sounds' good! re: stomaching- that would be 'letting go of'... ,and by the way,
angus> being able to be open and honest like here at the chats, really helps. acceptance of where one is at, by others is an all too uncommon thing in this world at present.
Jack> Well I'm really glad that this feels like a safe, supportive space for you! That's my goal for SURE.
angus> well you've succeeded! you are da man, baby!
Jack> LOL thanks Brother! :-)
Jack> That means a GREAT deal to me!
Jack> Schwartz, I'm wondering what thoughts you may have for angus about this.
Schwartz> Mmmmm . . . Just keep doing what you're doing. Get in touch with feelings. Clear your mind.
angus> cheers mate.
Jack> Other thoughts that come to mind are wondering about
Jack> stuff you may feel or have felt obliged to "swallow" or put up with that really are incongruent with your
Jack> essential self. Like somehow feeling obliged to go along with something(s) that really go against your grain.
angus> i am presently in touch with alot of strong feelings regarding how i , and others are treated because we are gay.
Jack> No doubt!
Jack> There's a lot of very fascist rhetoric being thrown about these days, and it's very hateful. It must
Jack> be one hell of a challenge to maybe feel like sometimes you gotta keep quiet or whatever or suffer
Jack> worse consequences.
angus> and that kind of anger at times scares the hell out of me, as i don't know what i would do if accausted by someone. i think i am more worried about my anger than someone elses now.
Jack> I hear that for sure. Are there any gay and gay-friendly settings where you CAN just let out your frustration
Jack> and get some support for that? Where you CAN express your rage, but in a safe, supportive environment/setting?
angus> well my partner and i talk alot about it. and counselling. i'm afraid socializing that kind of anger might make it worse. no need for more fascism.
Jack> Thank God you have a partner you feel supported by in that regard. I'm just wondering though
Jack> if you might be able to find some kind of a support GROUP where you CAN express some of that... maybe
Jack> even through art, music, movement... as well as verbalizing how it's feeling to you. The
Jack> challenge is finding SOME kind of setting where you CAN
Jack> dump all of that poison that you are very naturally internalizing (bottling up) from
Jack> being so immersed in a culture that these days seems to be so much more hostile. I just
Jack> get a sense of some degree of isolation may be exacerbating your pain. Ideally I guess, might
Jack> be some kind of a group, even an informal group, where you can speak your truth and get some
Jack> support for it, and ideally maybe even come up with SOME kind of however-modest action step(s) you might
Jack> take to feel like you are doing SOME kind of action to help things change. I'm just kinda free associating here, but
Jack> I know that for me that kind of a group has been very healing for me at times in the past.
angus> gives me a good idea for a show though. i have a lesbian psychologist colleague that may want to do something like that. great idea jack. i will definitely look into that. this gives me something to work on. cheers.
angus> i guess part of feeling powerless is like you say, not having an avenue to express it. a group would help.
Jack> Cool! Also, just to sit in a room full of like-minded people and to speak my personal truth I have
Jack> found to be very healing and hope-building at times. I hope you'll keep us posted. And feel free
Jack> to speak your truth about the price you pay for this kind of prejudice as part of your posts here in the Forum.
angus> thanks jack, feel so much better talking about this stuff. you are a friend. now, our friend schwartz here has no doubt some questions, and i would like to pass the talking stick to him if i may.
Jack> By all means, and thank you for your graciousness, and Schwartz' as well. And angus,
Jack> I have a lead about a dietary thing that may be somewhat palliative as well. There's some
Jack> new info out about coconut oil... My wife Jackie has a friend who's
Jack> had ibs for 30 some years and has recently introduced about 3 tablespoons of coconut oil into her
Jack> diet, and using it in dressings, to cook with etc. and has realized some amazing relief. There's
Jack> some book about it and I'll post it as soon as I get the details. I realize that what you're
Jack> talking about is not just about needing a dietary change but for sure the way homophobia is getting amped
Jack> these days is hard to stomach! Thanks for feeling safe enough here to share your truth about this!
angus> as a matter of fact, i buy organic coconut oil, so i will try the protocol and see! cheers!
Jack> All RIGHT! LOL! Keep us "posted"!
Jack> Ok Brother Schwartz, you got the Talkin' Stick! And thank you for your patience!
Schwartz> Quick question, Angus: I thought "cheers" meant "goodbye" but you seem to use it as "thanks."
angus> yes, it can be used for both, especially here in canada where our english heritage is quite strong.
Schwartz> OK!
Schwartz> Re: IBS. I use the Sedona Method of releasing feelings. A very helpful tool. www.sedona.com
Schwartz> I don't have IBS, I use the method for feelings in general.
angus> let me check that out man, thanks.
Schwartz> Cheers!
angus> !
Schwartz> So, as for my progress. I haven't been doing sessions per se.
Schwartz> Just practicing now and then, here and there.
Jack> How's that going?
Schwartz> Good. I've adapted a more "easy does it" attitude.
Jack> WONDERFUL!
Schwartz> No echo effects as of yet, but I feel that they'll be along when they're ready; when I'm ready.
Schwartz> I've been doing a lot of visualization lately, visualizing myself having a multiple.
Schwartz> Feeling the experience as if it's happening.
Jack> When you do that, do you also use a Key Sound as part of that visualization, from time to time?
Schwartz> Oh yes!
Jack> Great!
Schwartz> All of the protocol.
Jack> Excellent!
Schwartz> I've read that the unconscious doesn't know the difference b/t a real and an imagined experience. So I'm telling my uncon that it's OK for me to have multiples. [editor's note: uncon=unconscious]
Jack> That sounds like a good plan to me.
Schwartz> I've noticed that when I do the second part of the KS, I often don't do it fully. At the very end I seem to get stuck.
Schwartz> As if some tension comes up.
Jack> That's great that you notice that!
angus> very cool idea schwartz. do you tell your uncon thru words, or just thru your visualisation
Schwartz> No words.
Schwartz> I vividly and emotionally imagine the experience.
Jack> Any thots or images, etc. ever come up when you notice that tension?
Schwartz> Good question, Jack. I haven't noticed.
Schwartz> But now that you bring it up, I'll put my attention to any that might come up.
Jack> Just thinking you might get some clues that way.
Schwartz> Yes.
Schwartz> I've been reflecting a lot lately about overall feeling-states, happiness, etc.
Schwartz> I wonder if having multiples is tied in with allowing myself to feel good.
Schwartz> I've always been such a serious lad.
Jack> What's your hunch?
Schwartz> My hunch is yes, they're connected.
Jack> Makes sense to me. Well sometimes being serious is exactly what's called for... but those OTHER times... :-)
Schwartz> Yes.
Jack> :-)
Jack> What kinds of activities, etc. have you done that seem to take you out of that serious mode some?
Schwartz> I'm writing a comic play. That helps me get in touch with my inner jokester.
Schwartz> And doing a lot of "releasing."
Schwartz> Physical and emotional letting go.
Jack> Right on!
Jack> I just had an image of you driving a go-cart. Ever done that?
Schwartz> Maybe as a kid.
Jack> I wonder what it would be like for you to try it now.
Schwartz> Sounds like fun!
Jack> OMG!!!
Jack> :-)
Jack> A little... creative self-indulgence. :-)
Schwartz> BTW,
Schwartz> when I listened to the Success Stories CD
Schwartz> I laughed out loud at the last story
Schwartz> where the man was writhing around on the floor.
Schwartz> I found that to be an incredible release.
Jack> GREAT!
Schwartz> just listening to how something was taking over him
Schwartz> and he was no longer in control, in a sense.
Schwartz> It sounded great to me!
Jack> Yeah! Feel free to writhe when visualizing... :-)
Jack> You could prolly sneak in a subtle Key Sound while on the go-cart course. I promise not to tell.
Schwartz> LOL!
Jack> ;-)
Jack> I hope you'll give that a go, and let us know how you like it.
Jack> "Creative Writhing" too.
Schwartz> LOL!
angus> !
Jack> Professor Schwartz will be offering a seminar on Creative Writhing 101.
Jack> Sounds perfect to me!
angus> this place is too much! creativity seems to be the operative word.
Jack> :-)
Schwartz> BTW, I listen to your new KS that you posted.
Schwartz> It's very primal.
Jack> How 'bout that!
Schwartz> Almost frightening.
Jack> Welcome to Terror at the Gates!
Schwartz> Maybe I'm scared by sexuality.
Schwartz> Such primal sexuality.
Schwartz> Or scared by my own capacity for pleasure
Schwartz> or for sexuality.
Schwartz> Or scared of my own power.
Jack> That energy is what moves the cosmos.
Jack> The Life Force.
Jack> Well I think Writhing Lab is definitely indicated... Writhing + Key Sounds (including listening to my demo and imitating) + the visualization you described.
Jack> And go-cart lab, too.
Schwartz> Okey dokey.
angus> heh you two, jon and i are having our hairs cut, so i have to go. one quick q before i go jack?
Jack> Sure ang!
angus> when doing the acupressure/key sound- how do you release the energy if you are focusing on directing it to a part of yourself?
Jack> You'll think of something.
Jack> Pls let us know what you come up with.
angus> ok. i hear ya. so bye for now, and a real pleasure to meet you schwartz. it is so cool to meet all these
angus> intelligent and interesting people here at the chats. keep in touch.
Schwartz> Good chatting with you, Angus.
Jack> Cheers! ;-)
angus> happy go carting!
Schwartz> LOL!
Schwartz> Thanks for your help today, Jack!
Jack> You're very very welcome. Schwartz you've inspired me to do a little
Jack> go-carting too. It's been many years for me, and I'm gonna treat myself to a cartgasm soon, methinks!
Schwartz> Hahhhh!
Schwartz> That's what all this is about, eh? Opening the heart?
Jack> Yep and HAVING FUN.
Schwartz> Fun . . . hmmmm .. .
Schwartz> Gotta research that.
Jack> Yeah, what a concept, eh?
Jack> Yeah that's your homework.
Schwartz> What an assignment!
Jack> Tough duty, but you're up to it, I think.
Schwartz> Thanks for your support, Jack. It's much appreciated!
Jack> You're really truly welcome. Your thanks mean a great deal to me.
Schwartz> Well, I'm going to go now and have some fun!
Schwartz> See you in the next chat.
Jack> Ok Brother Schwartz, have a good one. I look forward to next time!
Schwartz> Safe journey Jack!
Session Close