• Drew (Michigan USA) gets this evening's chat off to a great start with a success story!
• By shifting his focus away from trying to make himself experience Male Multiple Orgasm, and concentrating on just building and holding an ever-bigger erotic charge, he experienced some "extremely pleasurable" responses from his erotic self.
• VERY NOTEWORTHY: He reports having a clear sense of "remembering" or of familiarity as these new feelings appeared!
• This corroborates Jack's initial assumption that set the stage for discovering the Key Sound trigger for non-ejaculatory Multiple Orgasms, that assumption being that the knowledge of how to have these kinds of orgasms is coded into our DNA and every cell in our body wants to feel this energy. And all we need to do is use the Key Sound to help our body remember.
• And a great bit of news is that Drew no longer feels the nausea at higher levels of arousal that he'd reported in previous chats.
• Drew further reports that he felt he could continue these extremely pleasurable "waves" indefinitely!
• He found himself beginning to vary the "traditional" Key Sound, while the sounds nevertheless retained the "rolling quality" in the middle, that is the essential characteristic of the Key Sound.
• Fred (Utah) joins the discussion and asks for Drew's suggestions for dealing with his sense of impatience about not yet experiencing a "total" non-ejaculatory "climax".
• Drew describes how he uses the Key Sound to distribute the increasing erotic energy throughout his body, rather than allowing it to just localize in his genital area.
• Fred offers a VERY IMPORTANT TIP in that when he finds that his use of the Key Sound is no longer increasing his level of arousal, he returns to a quieter use of the Key Sound, one that feels once again connected to stimulating pleasurable "Echo" responses from his body. This is crucial to opening more intense orgasms.
• Jack notes Fred's implication that at higher levels of sound volume, he becomes uncomfortable with the volume of the sound
• With Drew's help, Fred identifies a significant way of improving his practice: i.e., to use the Key Sound to express the erotic energy that has built up, rather than using the Key Sound to try to make the good feelings happen.
• With Drew's and Jack's help Fred becomes aware that he's been trying to make himself reach "climax" rather than using the Key Sound to express whatever erotic energy is already happening.
• Jack underscores the PARADOXICAL nature of this approach: that the shortest path to climactic intensity of non-ejaculatory multiple orgasms is to quit trying to make them happen!
• At this point Fred becomes aware that in fact he has had a feeling of trying to push himself toward climax, leading to frustration rather than ecstacy.
• Jack re-emphasizes the PARADOXICAL nature of Male Multiple Orgasm success: that we must LET GO of trying to MAKE the orgasms happen! [With many thanks to Jack Morin's book, The Erotic Mind, for identifying the paradoxical nature of many aspects of sexual pleasure.]
• Next Jack re-iterates the importance of keeping the "rolling quality" of in the middle of the sounds one might feel moved to use as variations of the Key Sound as I demonstrate in the audio seminar.
• Drew notes that the additional examples given in the new edition of the Audio Seminar™ have been very helpful in this regard.
• He also recognizes that the variations of the Key Sound which he spontaneously found intensified his experience DID contain the "rolling quality" in the middle of each of them.
• Jack reminds Fred that he doesn't need to consciously try to make the "abdominal roll", but rather, by focusing on making Key Sounds which resonate, the "roll" will tend to happen automatically.
• Jack then invites Drew to describe how these intense experiences differ from ejaculorgasm (other than lack of ejaculation with the Male Multiple Orgasm waves), and how they are similar.
• Drew emphasizes that these experiences tend to leave him feeling energized.
• A discussion follows about how it's easy to fall into the trap of making this process into "work" (going for the Big One) rather than play and open-ended exploration (i.e., relaxing and opening to the pleasure waves).

jack> Hello!

jack> Hi Drew!

Drew> Hi there Jack, How's it goin'?

jack> Ok, except I'm running a slight fever at 99.5F... Ready to chat for a while though. How about you?

Drew> Sorry to hear about the temp, I myself am a little tired (the good kind for a change)....

jack> thanks... glad to hear about the "good tired"!

Drew> so if you're up to it, I love to chat, .

jack> Yes, which thread would you like to pick up first?

Drew> How about a success story?

jack> You betcha!!!

Drew> Well, after last weeks session, I decided to change my strategy for practice...

Drew> I set the goal of practice to 'charging up my body with energy, and holding as much charge as possible', rather than going for the BIG MMO.... which I'm still not sure what that WILL be like.

jack> Excellent shift of focus! Did you also include focusing on staying with RESONANT Key Sounds?

Drew> Oh yeah, big time. I was attempting to make the sounds as sensual as possible....

jack> E X C E L L E N T ! ! !

jack> What happened? I can't stand the suspense!

Drew> the volume varied, as did the 'intensity'

jack> Yeah, the cycle pattern we discussed a few weeks back... pls go on...

Drew> I got some major 'echoes' from my body, extremely pleasant!

Drew> I also get the impression that my body is 'remembering', and has started to adapt to the process...

jack> How did they differ from previous experience?

Drew> Re: differ.... that's a tough one. A big plus for me was, no nausea!!!

jack> All right!!! So the nausea breaker didn't pop this time, eh? [Several chats ago, Drew had reported a feeling of nausea as the pleasure started to get really intense. For a definition of "emotional breaker" refer to the chats listed in the Annotated Chat Index, the Third Edition of the Audio Seminar, and the Third Edition of the Questions and Answers Guide Book. -Ed.]

Drew> There was also a sense that I could go on indefinitely...

Drew> I didn't seem to get the energy rising up into my chest area, the felt pleasure....

Drew> was mainly in the pelvic area, but not just the genitals.

jack> What other physical experience did you notice? e.g., any automatic body movements, pulses, waves, etc.?

Drew> If anything, I would say 'waves', in the previously mentioned body area.

jack> RE: that sense of being able to go on indefinitely, WELCOME TO Male Multiple Orgasm LAND! IMHO, that's a _major_ characteristic of this kind of experience. What was your breathing like? Muscle tonus? Eyes open or closed? Did you always feel fully conscious and aware?

jack> Anything that felt automatic rather than consciously controlled?

Drew> I was relaxed, doing valley breathing (interspersed with regular breathing), eyes open, conscious. Some of those body echoes were most certainly automatic.

jack> Yeah, I would say that "automatic" is almost intrinsic to the "echo" concept. We "send" the Key Sound to our body, which then "automatically" responds with the pleasure sensations. What else?

Drew> I think I should mention, that I was improvising with the KS...

jack> How was it different?

Drew> I realized that there are many more women on the planet that are orgasmically multiple, so I decided to do some modeling....

Drew> some of the sounds were more like ecstatic (orgasmic) moans...

Drew> regardless of how I would describe the sound, my body certainly responded to it, BIG TIME!

jack> That's the foremost criterion! As long as you feel the energy is rising, is pleasurable, and does NOT feel like it's localizing in your penis (i.e., heading towards ejaculation), I say let

jack> your body teach you! Then, if you feel like the energy is starting to fade or whatever, you always have the Key Sound to fall back on, to send your body another wake-up-and-remember message!

Drew> Yes, what was interesting to me, is that when I'd used up my allotted practice time....

Drew> I decided to go for an ejaculorgasm, and it felt strange to be doing that at the time....

Drew> It was almost like 'why go for a few seconds of pleasure, when you can have HOURS?'

jack> Ironic, isn't it, that after those Male Multiple Orgasm waves, ejaculorgasm in a way can feel, well, anti-climactic! :-)

jack> Was it pleasurable tho?

Drew> part of me just wanted to carry on, RE: anti-climatic, that exactly it, it was still pleasurable though.

jack> I've often found that if I still have the energy, I can continue to feel Male Multiple Orgasm waves even after ejaculorgasm, by gentle massage plus the Key Sound.

jack> Hi Fred!

Fred> Hello, Jack!

Drew> I didn't have time to try that, yet I did feel very satisfied, energized. Hi FRED!!!!!!

Fred> Hi, Drew!

Drew> Long time, no chat Fred. How are you?

Fred> Drew, I am a little impatient about

Fred> not making more progress toward Total Climax. How are you doing, Drew?

Drew> Very well actually. I've been reporting to Jack about some recent success...

Fred> If Jack doesn't mind, please tell me.

jack> By all means!

Drew> I can certainly appreciate the impatience factor... I go there myself all too often...

Drew> I'm sure you can get all the details from the transcript, basically I shifted the goal of my practice session.

Drew> Instead of just going for MMO, my intention was to charge up my body with as much energy as possible, and then hold that charge as long as I could....

Fred> How did you do that?!

Drew> I've also been improvising with the KS, which has developed into an ecstatic moan. This tended to produce some huge 'echoes' and waves of pleasure.

jack> Did you have any more ?'s for Drew about what he means?

Fred> I'm still not entirely clear about how he "charged up" his body.

jack> Drew? Teach, brother!

Drew> I guess the charge cycle for me is the in-breath, then I use my version of the KS to distribute the energy around my body.

Fred> I'll try to "distribute the energy around my body." I've never been able to do that. It stays generally pretty much in the genital area.

jack> Fred, could this be because you are still focusing on trying to make THE BIG ONE happen?

Fred> Lately I've been trying to increase the resonance and have successfully avoided ejaculation.

jack> Can you say more about how you've been "increasing the resonance"?

Fred> I would say by trying to feel the relationship between the

Fred> sound and the feeling. Generally, as the feeling increases, the voice gets louder. Than I return to very low.

jack> Why do you return to very low? To try to increase the feeling.

jack> Is this because as your voice gets louder the feeling starts to fade? Or some other reason?

Fred> I would say that as my voice gets louder, the feeling does tend to become less important.

Drew> Does the sound 'resonate', Fred?

Fred> In intense feelings in my genital area -- generally the "pumping" I've mentioned before

Fred> the thrusting up and down and shaking on the bed.

jack> By "less important"? Do you mean the sound becomes distracting?

Fred> Well put, Jack.

jack> Do you become somewhat self-conscious about the sound?

Fred> I don't think so.

jack> How is it distracting?

Fred> I become more conscious of the sound (noise) I am making than of the pleasure I am feeling.

jack> My sense is that if in your mind you are calling the sound "noise", then you may be encountering a furball at that point... worrying about "what the neighbors will think" or something like that. Do you feel that that is in the mix at all?

Fred> No.

Drew> Maybe, the connection between the pleasure and the sound has been lost...

Fred> That is correct, Drew. That's why I return to making the sound quietly.

jack> I'm concerned about your describing the experience as "noise", which to me has a negative connotation. Yes Drew, I would tend to agree that at that point something has shifted.

Drew> i.e. the sound is used to 'express' the felt pleasure.

Fred> I don't use it to "express" the pleasure, but to "cause" it. Maybe that's the problem.

jack> Fred, I think that given that you reach a point where the sound no longer feels good, but suddenly starts feeling like "noise", that returning to low sound is an EXCELLENT strategy!

Fred> It works.

jack> RE: express versus cause, I think you may be on to something there. I really get the sense that you get to point where the breaker pops. You might want to take another

jack> look at the article on How to Time the Key Sound. As you feel the energy rise, the Key Sound, ESPECIALLY THE SECOND PART is to EXPRESS the accumulating pleasure or erotic tension. This EXPRESSION

jack> then tends to DIFFUSE the erotic energy into the rest of the body, as Drew described.

Fred> I'll work on it.

jack> It's kinda sounding like it's becoming a job rather than fun...

Drew> I suggest 'playing' on it...

Fred> I still enjoy it. But the emphasis certainly is on trying to increase it to the point of climax.

Fred> What do you mean by "playing" on it, Drew?

jack> I think that's where the frustration comes in Fred. As I've said before, this process is PARADOXICAL in that the way to get the BIG ONE_S_ is to STOP trying to MAKE them happen. For me, it's when I LET GO of the PUSHING and concentrate on OPENING more to

jack> whatever feelings my body is echoing, that the Echoes get stronger. I do this by focusing instead on continuing to make a Key Sound which has the SECOND part EXPRESSING the energy I'm feeling, and looking for that RESONANT feeling of "Yeah! THAT one (Key Sound) FELT like it!"

Drew> RE: playing: What helps me with any task, is to enter into it with a sense of 'playfulness', the idea of Male Multiple Orgasm practice being some sort of chore puts it on a par with housework, laundry etc. i.e NO FUN AT ALL.

jack> I agree with Drew, Fred...

Fred> I'll try to take what both of you say to heart and correct it. There is something in what both of you say.

Fred> It's true. I'm in a hurry and want to reach a climax fast. Drew, I remember you once said that you spend as much as four hours!

Drew> Yes, I did. Now my pratice sessions tend to be much shorter, although I'd like to plan another extended session soon, just to see what happens.

jack> Fred, see the paradox in what you just said?

Fred> Point it out to me, please.

jack> You're in a hurry, so it's taking LONGER! If you reverse the first part (i.e. slow down, don't TRY to MAKE yourself climax), THEN you will more likely begin to experience a different result!!! It IS ___PARADOXICAL___!

Fred> I understand.

jack> When you check out the first part of tonite's transcript you will see that Drew got BIGGER results when he QUIT trying to __MAKE__ himself have MMO's! Once again, PARADOX is at the CORE of this process!

jack> Drew, RE: your ecstatic moans... do any of them have a "rolling quality" similar to the one that is in the middle of the Key Sound? I gave several different examples in the 3rd edition of the Audio Seminar.

Drew> Yes they do, it seems that the second part of the KS 'pushes' the energy around the body....

Fred> That's exactly what Jack said.

Fred> I listened to them this afternoon, Jack.

jack> Great Fred! I hope they will help.

Drew> Jack, the third edition helped in this regard....

jack> I'm glad to hear that Drew!

Drew> i.e. there's more than one way to make the KS, since we all have unique bodyminds, perhaps we have unique Key sounds too.

jack> Drew, I wouldn't go all the way to full agreement with that statement. I would say that we certainly do have many variations, but in the beginning there's a big temptation as it gets MORE DIFFICULT to make the Key Sound, to start making OTHER sounds

jack> instead. Nevertheless, I DO agree with you RE: variations of the Key Sound AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOTICING THAT ROLLING QUALITY IN THE _MIDDLE_ OF THE SOUND, WHICH MAKES YOUR LOWER BELLY MOVE IN THAT _PARADOXICAL_ WAY.

jack> I feel it's very important to continue to make sounds that

jack> have that ROLLING QUALITY in the MIDDLE as is modeled in the Key Sound™ the audio seminars, because it's that rolling quality that moves

jack> the lower belly muscles in ways that seems to BYPASS ejaculation WITHOUT feeling like you're consciously having to AVOID ejaculation or HOLD IT BACK.

jack> One suggestion if I may, Drew, is that as you are doing the moans, nevertheless every once in a while, throw in a "classic" Key Sound™ as I demonstrate in the audio seminars! You might be surprised at the result!

Drew> I don't mean totally unique KS's, more like variations on a theme incorporating the 'abdominal roll'.

jack> YES!!! I am in TOTAL agreement with THAT! :-)

Drew> COOL :-)

jack> That's a VERY important point!

jack> I hope our readers all really GROK that. It's that weird belly movement that seems to redirect the energy away from ejaculation, NO MATTER HOW INTENSE THE ENERGY IS!

Fred> I haven't been paying attention to the "abdominal roll."

Drew> For me, I don't really focus my attention on it....

jack> I agree with you, Drew!

Fred> I remember that Rene said that he made progress by exaggerating the belly motion plus sighing not singing the sound.

Drew> it's most effective when it's subtle, and not consciously forced.

jack> If you're making the Key Sound in a way that you find yourself saying, "YEAH! THAT felt like it!" Your belly will be doing the roll, AUTOMATICALLY!!!

jack> Some exaggeration can work, but I believe I also cautioned Rene about NOT FORCING the sound. His SIGHING suggestion is a good one, and I use that very description of one of my examples in the 3rd Edition Audio Seminar.

jack> So Fred, pls don't be too concerned about TRYING to MAKE your belly make some weird movement. THAT WILL HAPPEN AUTOMATICALLY

jack> __WHEN__ you make the Key Sounds that are resonating. Focus on making that sound to "release" the building energy, and look for the feeling of "Yeah! That one felt good!" THAT IS THE _ONLY_ THING YOU NEED TO FOCUS ON! The rest will take care of itself.

Fred> OK.

jack> When you make a resonant Key Sound, when you get that "yeah! THERE we go!" then you might NOTICE that your stomach is moving in a way that differs from normal breathing.

jack> Drew, did you get what I suggested about throwin in a "classic" KS every now and then?

Drew> To be honest, I think I'm already doing it! When I need to give the energy a little extra push, I use the 'classic', and it feels really GOOD!

jack> E XXXXX CELLENT!!!

jack> Drew, may I ask another ?

Drew> Please do.

jack> RE: The huge echoes you've been describing in this evening's chat... how do they differ from "orgasm"?

jack> And how are they similar to "orgasm"... ASIDE from the "prostatic event" (projection of prostatic fluid)?

Drew> That's a tough one to answer...

jack> ;-)

Drew> I would say the difference is...

Drew> expansion (body echo) versus contraction then release (ejaculorgasm).

Drew> Does that make any sense to either of you?

jack> Fred?

Fred> It does to me, definitely. It is related to how you, Drew,

Fred> have described the echoes all over your body.

jack> It makes BIG sense to me, Drew! Care to take a crack at the "how similar" question?

Drew> They're both very pleasurable, intense, desirable experiences...

Fred> I heard Jack say something on the tape today [Audio Seminar, Third Edition. -Ed.]

Fred> that ejaculation takes the (something I can't remember)

Fred> out of you. (Something like that.) Is the same true of

Fred> your echoes, Drew?

jack> Great question Fred!

Drew> Not at all Fred, in fact quite the opposite, I feel something is building inside of me.

Drew> the ejaculorgasm is finite, and perhaps the body echoes (and MMO) are infinite.

jack> Drew: "Limited only by your energy level and your desire to continue!" [JJ quoting the Audio Seminar. -Ed.]

jack> That's what most guys (AND the women I've heard from who've worked with this) usually say, that these multi-orgasms usually leave them satisfied AND energized!

jack> Fred, I think it's a very important awareness that you've been PUSHING rather than playing. I'm sure ALL of us remember being told not to "Play with ourself"!!! A CULTURAL FURBALL!

Fred> I think about it all the time, Jack. That was exactly, the expression used.

jack> So I say, UNbleep THAT "Bravo Sierra"!

Fred> How?

jack> First by recognizing that it IS a furball! That by PUSHING yourself toward orgasm, and all of the frustration that can accompany that strategy, you may be AVOIDING feeling greater pleasure!!!

Fred> OK, possible. More?

jack> By WORKING on it, rather than PLAYING WITH IT, your system is actually SHUTTING DOWN to pleasure!

Fred> Good point.

jack> By making that shift though Fred, especially in the beginning, it's very possible that guilt or other "furballs" will appear, as you begin PLAYING rather than WORKING!

Fred> I have made huge progress in that area, Jack.

jack> You sure have, my friend, and I'm really glad to hear you CLAIM IT!

Fred> It seems to me that's a good note to end on. What do you two think?

jack> It RESONATES for me! ;-)

Fred> You have been a gold mine of information tonight, Drew.

jack> That is absolutely for sure!

Drew> shucks guys, that really nice of you to say so...

jack> :-)

Drew> as always, I've learned a lot too.

Fred> I look forward to reading over the transcript and applying what you said, Drew.

jack> But don't WORK on it! PLAY WITH IT!!! ;-)

jack> ok?

Drew> Let us know how you get on with it.

Fred> Right, Jack!

Fred> Handshakes and hugs to all.

jack> Hugs to you too Fred!

jack> ACTION huggin Fred, huggin Drew

Drew> ACTION H & H returned!

Fred> Good night, Jack and Drew.

jack> Good night, brave pioneers!

Drew> Good Night to you both, see ya next time, ovr.

jack> ACTION hangin a sign on the door that says "Yo! Pacific Rim!!! Come join the fun!!! I'll be here at 3 a.m. Pacific Daylight Time, i.e. 1000 Zulu (Greenwich Mean Time). "

gold nugget


great tips/suggestions on how NOT going for it helped KSMO member Drew experience greater success.

__________________
With Love, Light and with a Joyously singing heart,
Laly
Old forum threads of mine :
http://tiny.cc/KOx0x - shy newbie
http://tiny.cc/mt9sd - letting go of anger
http://tiny.cc/wR7Hb - multiple orgasm success-insight

I read this in a book today "You never know how much courage you have until you face your greatest fears head on".