• To begin this chat we had a new chatter from Massachussetts named Bob. Bob has not had too much time to work with the Audio Seminar™ but has some good insight for newcomers as to what for him seem to work to begin this process.
• Jack gives Bob some tips that help him get over the feeling that this process to begin with seems too "much like exercising."
• Because Bob is JUST beginning this process, this is a good chat to read if you are also just starting to work with Male Multiple Orgasm
• Jack gives good advice for those of you who, like Bob, feel that they are concentrating on the process rather than the sensation.
• Do you ever feel guilt about experiencing "this much" or "this kind" of pleasure, often deciding" Aw f*ckit!" and then go for ejaculorgasm? Well you're not alone... Check out what these men have to say about that!
• Jack, Fred, and Bob all agree that "pleasure is SO loaded as SIN in our culture..." That's what we're here to change.
• When an uncontrollable desire...becomes INTENTIONAL self pleasure...that's what seems to draw the guilt monster out!

jack> Welcome bob! Happy May Day!!!
bob> Same to you!
jack> Such a beautiful Spring Day for discussing ecstacy, eh?
bob> I have to be honest, I haven't really had a lot of time to practice the Male Multiple Orgasm process.
jack> No prob re: practice...
jack> What questions might you have about MMO?
bob> Right - When I first got the tape, I spent a lot of time with it and found that the "growl" really was effective
bob> but had difficulty with the breathing and also finding the "hot spots" became to much like exercising
jack> Are you finished typing? I can't tell unless you end with punctuation or say ovr or something...
bob> I suspect that I was ending up like a pretzel with my arm underneath me and got "tired"
jack> sorry... pls go ahead!
bob> But placing it between my legs seemed to get in the way. over
jack> Ok... these are really good questions! First, have you had a chance to look at the 3 "Very
jack> Important Tips" articles on the web site?
bob> No - over
jack> That would be my first suggestion to you,
jack> before practicing any more...
jack> I can also give you some idea
jack> of the contents of those articles here...
jack> if you'd like, ovr
bob> yes, please do, over
jack> Better yet, I might first ask our friend Fred to begin by answering your questions.... Hi Fred!
Fred> Hi, Jack!
bob> Hi Fred.
Fred> Hi -- sorry I'm late. I got hung up.
jack> Glad you're here!
Fred> Thank you.
jack> Fred this is bob from MA
Fred> I don't believe we've met.
jack> He's been working with the Audio Seminar, but hasn't yet
jack> seen the articles on how to Time the breath and Key Sound, etc. I wonder if
jack> you'd be willing to share with him a little of what you've learned about practice
jack> of the Key Sound at low volume... ovr
Fred> Bob, I never got anywhere until I discovered that on very low
Fred> key sounds every fourth breath did anything.
jack> May I add something?
Fred> Please, Jack.
jack> Or rather, ask on behalf of bob :-) Fred what do you mean by every 4th breath?
Fred> I try to empty my abdoman when I breath out, then breath in deep. Each one of these I call a breath.
jack> Thanks. What I was thinking of was the concept of learning how to know
jack> which breath to use the Key Sound on... maybe I'll just say a coupla things
jack> here to establish a little context. Bob, in the How to Time Key Sound
jack> article, I suggest that you not use the
jack> Key Sound more often than about every 3rd or 4th breath. How does
jack> that compare with your current practice?
bob> I do find that the low breathing does create a "sensation" in my testicles, but when I concentrate on it I begin to lose that sensation.
jack> Ok... when you notice that sensation, does your breathing change at all?
bob> I have been trying to do both together every time. Not that I notice. over.
jack> excuse me, both of what?
bob> The breathing and the sound. 0ver
jack> In the Timing article I suggest you
jack> notice as you begin adding a LITTLE erotic stimulation,
jack> that you might have a tendency to take a larger than average INbreath as you
jack> begin to experience arousal... ever notice anything like that?
bob> I have experienced some of what you are speaking of a couple of times, but more often it becomes a lesson in "walking and chewing gum" at the same time. I begin to concentrate on the process rather than the sensation. over.
jack> Where I'm going with my suggestions is that you focus more on your sensations,
jack> and don't worry so much about the process. Don't worry about the hot spots in
jack> the beginning, or trying to make your stomach move in a certain way... do you know what
jack> Fred and I mean when we refer to "Key Sound?"
bob> The primal roar?
jack> Yes it can be a roar, but what I've learned since I
jack> made the Audio Seminar, learned I might add mostly from the people who have
jack> shared with me here on chat and via email this last year... anyway, what I've learned
jack> is that the Audio Seminar in a way is the "advanced" part of the seminar! That's
jack> why we got a LOT of material on the web site to SUPPLEMENT the Audio Seminar.
jack> Another thing
jack> I've learned is that it's probably better to begin
jack> by working with the Key Sound as I demonstrate in the Key Sound Training audio seminar™ at very LOW volume
jack> and in the beginning without ANY direct erotic stimulation... and to be on the
jack> lookout for ANY pleasurable feelings,
jack> HOWEVER SUBTLE...
jack> that occur as you are working with the Key Sound and
jack> 3 or 4 regular breaths in between each Key Sound. Be on the lookout
jack> _especially_ for feelings which seem somehow new or different than what you're used
jack> to experiencing. Anything like that happen? For example, the feelings in your
jack> testicles, were those familiar feelings, or "new?"
bob> I do have to admit - like Woofer (I think) in the last discussion - I have some difficulty with just letting myself enjoy the experience without guilt and then I relapse into "going all the way" to take advantage of the situation. They were "new" - very subtle.
jack> Bob, this is great information! And (I know if said this b4 in chat, but...) it's going to help
jack> a LOT of people! That is a very important sequence to be aware of! That is,
jack> new good feelings... then a furball pops loose in the form of guilt about experiencing
jack> "this much" or "this kind" of pleasure, then... the "Emotional Breaker" pops
jack> (often with a sound that's something like "Aw f*ckit!") and then you go for
jack> ejaculorgasm. Does that sound about right?
jack> By the way, if you press ENTER after every dozen words or so, then we know
jack> you're "talking..." :-)
bob> I think that could be it exactly. In the "old" procedure - I could rationalize that the moment was uncontrollable and it "had" to be satisfied and "done with" - with this procedure, it extends the process of self pleasure
jack> Wow that seems like a pretty important awareness!
bob> beyond an "uncontrollable" desire and becomes intentional self pleasure.
jack> Key word maybe being "intentional" ... that what seems to draw the guilt monster out?
bob> Very probably - more than usual. I read in one of the articles
bob> about guys who continued this "pleasuring" for hours.
jack> Fred?
bob> This then goes beyond, "I couldn't help it"
Fred> I am very happy to listen to you two.
bob> If I could ask Fred a question?
Fred> Certainly.
bob> Putting this issue aside for the moment. Have you reached a stage where you can experience
bob> MMOs without ejaculating and not feel as though something was left out?
Fred> Almost. I would very much like to,
Fred> but we thought maybe my guilt about ejaculating
Fred> was holding me back. So this week, I tried to overcome
Fred> that and I believe that the result has been loss of the
Fred> other or, I feel, greater feelings. Is that clear?
bob> That's very reassuring - I'm thinking that what first attracted me to this process was the lack of ejaculation.
jack> Can you say more about that?
Fred> Exactly!
bob> That it would ease some of the guilt if there were no ejaculation.
Fred> Exactly!
bob> BUT......
jack> I wonder how many other guys there are out there who feel this way? Go on, pls, bob...
bob> I find that the emphasis on self pleasuring is somewhat replacing that guilt - I think, I
bob> haven't really thought the whole thing through.
jack> Like maybe the
jack> self-pleasuring is dissolving the guilt somewhat?
bob> Not really. I mean guilt of extended self pleasuring is replacing guilt of ejaculation
jack> ah, ok, thanks for the clarification!
bob> Kind of a fatalistic hedonism!!!
jack> Guilty pleasure is what makes this culture happen!
bob> Damned if I do and damned if I don't!!!
jack> I think an important thing
jack> to be aware of here, is that the guilt you feel as you begin
jack> to experience an increase in _conscious_
jack> self-pleasuring is an example of what I call a "furball." By that I mean
jack> as the love and pleasure go "in," they can pop loose old wounds that want healing...
jack> It's almost as if the wound says, "Oh wow, there's some love and pleasure here, HEAL ME!" Anyway, it's
jack> VERY VERY VERY important in this practice to learn to recognize "furballs," in
jack> your practice, as you tune into FEELINGS, whether they be of pleasure or pain,
jack> THAT is where the action is, and in fact following those feelings, and healing the painful
bob> You know, Jack - I'm just thinking that nocturnal emissions have never been considered "wicked" - so I suppose that consciously or sub-consciously, it's the pleasure rather than the ejaculation that is the "bugaboo"
jack> ones BEFORE GOING FURTHER is what leads to MMO...
bob> Sorry
jack> s'ok... :-) that's a powerful insight!
jack> Yes! Consciously CHOOSING
jack> pleasure is SO loaded as SIN in our culture... that's what we're here to change...
jack> IMHO, Loving concensual pleasure is a SACRAMENT... it is prayer... it is holy
jack> it is divine...
jack> ovr
bob> I'm beginning to see some things here. If the "process" - right from the start - is directed
bob> only towards a pleasant sensation
bob> rather than - I'm getting lost here. Perhaps I need some time
bob> to think this through.
jack> Well there's definitely a lot to incubate here, bob. It seems like a LOT of "opening"
jack> has been happening in the last hour! :-)
bob> I would say so.
jack> To reiterate just a little, you could
jack> begin to see a process where you were focusing on opening to more pleasure,
jack> _and to what that may reveal_ does that seem about right?
bob> I think that that might be the direction I should head. I do have to get going, but I want to thank you and Fred for letting me "ramble". Perhaps next time Fred will get a chance to talk a bit.
jack> Yes! bob, may I make just a coupla quick comments b4 you depart?
Fred> I think you and I resemmble each other, Bob.
jack> I agree with that Fred! :-)
bob> Certainly. I hope next time I give you a chance to let me see.
jack> :-)
Fred> So long, Bob.
jack> bob, may I have that extra moment?
bob> Certainly Jack. Good night , Fred.
jack> To focus on trying to "make" yourself have Male Multiple Orgasm is a _trap_
jack> instead,
jack> work with the breathing and sound as I describe in those 3 articles I mentioned. Also pls
jack> when you can take a look at the last few chats... it'll be right up your alley. There's an
he difficulty. I'm at jack@multiples.com nscripts at the chat archives page on the web site. That
jack> way you can go to the topics of greatest interest and relevance. Also,
jack> be aware of any feelings of guilt, shame, or other discomfort. You MAY be able
jack> to GENTLY pleasure yourself thru these states, but often times it'll take more than that.
jack> If the uncomfortable
jack> feelings persist, then STOP THIS PRACTICE until you can get the help you need
jack> to heal those wounds. It is ESSENTIAL not to PUSH yourself beyond these points.
jack> Fred, I think that's even
jack> what happened to you this week! You tried to "overcome" or push past
jack> something, and you got immediate feedback in that the "different good feelings"
jack> began to fade! Isn't it wonderful how our deeper self communicates with us like this? It
jack> HAS to have some subtle ways since WE (conscious) are usually doing all the talking!
jack> Anyway, bob, I know you gotta go,
jack> but PLEASE don't push yourself
jack> past those wounded places... get the help you need to heal them instead... some of
jack> that may come from this practice, but please don't try to push through them and "ON TO
jack> ORGASM!" that's a false trail... :-)
bob> Excellent advice about not going for MMOs but letting it happen. Often times before I go to sleep I do some "touchy / feely" with no intention of going any further and I'm quite comfortable with that. It's the "letting it happen" rather than "making it happen" Which articles were those again?
jack> you talkin bob?
jack> uh oh, I have to quit the channel to "clear buffers" and come back, otherwise
bob> No, except to say again, thank you both.
jack> my screen is unreadable... I won't ask you to stick around bob, I'll be able to read
jack> your comments in the xscript.
jack> I did see that bob
jack> you're welcome!!!
bob> OK. Night Fred.
Fred> Night, Bob.
jack> Fred can you stick around for a little bit?
Fred> Yes.
jack> ok. hang loose for a mo' I'll be right back.
jack> I'm back!
Fred> Jack, we don't need to stick around.
jack> Ok, Fred, but what did you think of my comment about PUSHING?
Fred> Excellent. After trying to get over guilt about orgasm
Fred> by having orgasms, I just want to go forward
Fred> by going back.
jack> I love it Fred, you're a ZEN MASTER!!!
Fred> And you're a flatterer.
jack> ?ACTION blushing?
jack> The truth is, Zen Master, I think you're absolutely right about "going forward" by
jack> "going back" to focusing on the feelings, breathing, and sound... and if/whats_new_archives/when you're
jack> ready, begin to add a __little__ erotic stimulation directly... just light massage or something,
jack> to allow the energy to rise a bit... THEN CHECK FOR FURBALLS... if it's green light,
jack> add _____a little_____ more erotic stim... if furballs announce themselves, then
jack> take a break from the eros if doesn't seem to be dissolving the furball,
jack> and get whatever help you need TO heal that "request for healing." How's zat sound?
Fred> Good advice, as usual.
jack> Well I'm happy to be of service... as always it's a real pleasure having
jack> you in our "global group." I hope to see ya again next week. Meanwhile,
jack> _be gentle_ with yourself!
Fred> Thanks, Jack, and it was fun discovering that you speak French.
jack> toi aussi! :-)
Fred> Bonne nuit, mon ami!
jack> Et bonnes reves, copain!
Fred> Merci!
jack> ?ACTION huggin Fred?
Fred> Action returned.
jack> ?ACTION walkin out the door with Fred...?