• Mitch comments "When I started working with the KEY SOUND,....I experienced an emotional opening".......
• Fred checks in saying that he has had his best experiences using the "KEY SOUND" at low volumes.
• QUESTION: How much time should be devoted to one session?
• R.D. tells us that by using variations on the "KEY SOUND", it seems to vary the intensity of his Multiple Orgasms.
• Mitch talks about feeling the erotic energy in the Heart center...
• Allen states "I do think that if more folks were connected to their energy/erotic source that the world would be a more peaceful and less alienated place" [See the conference titled 'Ejaculation Compulsion' in the Live Forum]
• Jack comments that a lot of us guys have much conditioning to overcome, a lot of UNlearning, and....REMEMBERING!

mike> HOW YA DOIN TODAY ?
mike> cool
jack> I'm doing pretty GREAT! Feeling
jack> pretty tired but did some good work today.
jack> Got
jack> Fred H into chat mode. Hope he makes it tonite...
jack> How about YOU?
jack> Here comes Allen!!!
mike> yeh!
jack> Howdy Mitch!!!
jack> Welcome!!!
MitchT> Hi jack. I made it!
jack> Yeah man! did you get the email I sent you today, responding to your story?
MitchT> Not yet. Just got in
jack> Oh OK... Maybe you could introduce yourself to mike. He's our web site editor and Male Multiple Orgasm veteran...
mike> Hi Mitch !
mike> Welcome to the chat
jack> Here comes Allen too!
MitchT> Hi Mike, I'm a doctoral student in human sexuality education. I have a spinal cord injury and work with others on sexual issues
mike> And R.D. will be here shortly !
jack> Oh great! We gotta full house tonite!!!
MitchT> always looking for ways to access and expand my own pleasures also
mike> Really, Mitch that's great then you've come to the
mike> right place tonite !
jack> Mitch has had quite a weekend working with MMO!
mike> I'm in the medical field too.......Mitch
MitchT> what part?
mike> Respiratory !
jack> Welcome Allen!
allen> Hello from Seattle!
mike> Hi Allen, long time !
MitchT> I've been working on my breathing alot!
mike> Great, it is a vital key !
mike> Take your time with it,
mike> Mitch, don't rush and you'll
MitchT> I like practicing in the car.
jack> Amazing how many folks do!
allen> Jack --it turns out
jack> yes allen?
mike> be in a great space
allen> that you know the guy
allen> that I gave a copy of your seminar to
zzzzz> Is Fred connected?
allen> It is Jake--you stayed at his place up here
jack> welcome zzzzz!
jack> Oh Great Allen, yeah Jake and Linda!!!
jack> zat right?
allen> Yes--we are in a group together--small world.
mike> small world
jack> Please give them my best regards!!!
allen> I will....
allen> I gave him copies of the three updates
allen> from the net also.
jack> Excellent! Those articles are VERY important!
jack> I'm finding that the tape is really the Advanced Class, and that
jack> those three articles are the best place to begin...
jack> we have quite a great group of people tonite! Welcome to first timer
jack> zzzzz
jack> (I think it's ok for me to tell you his name is Fred)
jack> and also welcome to first timer MitchT!
Mitch> I'm back. Service kicked out and I had to sign on again. Missed some stuff.
allen> where is everyone from?
Mitch> CT
jack> OR
allen> Seattle
zzzzz> Fred is from Kaysville (north of Salt Lake) Utah
mike> OR
allen> nice range...
jack> Yeah, a great group and here comes R.D.!
jack> He's also from OR
Mitch> any one in Oregon know Lizzy McNeff?
jack> Yeha!!! This is a record for this chat!!!
jack> sorry, I don't know her...
R.D.> So am I there yet?
jack> you're there AND here!
jack> Say hi to the gang R.D.!
R.D.> HIya, gang!
allen> hi R.D.!
mike> hi R.D.!
R.D.> Hi,Allen!
zzzzz> Hi, R.D.!
Mitch> (Mitch) hi R.D.!
jack> So Mitch had a question if anybody knows Lizzy McNeff... why?
R.D.> Hi, Mike & ZZZ & Mitch
R.D.> Not me
mike> There's only a charles and barbara in the phonebook here
Mitch> Lizzy and I do some work together. She has a SCI and is also working on her doctorate focusing in on sexuality and disability.
jack> I see... just to recap folks Mitch is a doctoral student in human sexuality education. I have a spinal cord injury and work with others on sexual issues
jack> sorry... that was a paste, >IP> jack> Mitch,
jack> how long ago did this occur?
Mitch> 13 years resulting from a diving accident while lifeguard
mike> Bummer
Mitch> as a result, I never have a problem with premature ejaculation!
jack> Definitely lookin on the bright side!
Mitch> It's not so bad when your here.
allen> Mitch--has Male Multiple Orgasm been a pleasure/benefit to you?
Mitch> Sometimes. I get there less frequently. Have whole body responses, mostly spasms that help me release the built up muscle tension. But then I can keep playing as long as I like!
allen> cool...Male Multiple Orgasm breathing creates energy shakes for me.
Mitch> My wife says I'm still comparing myself to when I was 20 before my injury.
allen> they feel great!
mike> Mitch, are you para or quad ?
Mitch> I've used breathing before being introduced to this program. Incomplete quad.
jack> Mitch in your letter you
Mitch> Have chanted the word tension which helps me reach orgasm.
jack> spoke about feeling the energy rising up your spine...
Mitch> Yes
Mitch> felt the vibrations
jack> When you experienced that,
jack> were you working with the breathing only, or also with the Key Sound?
Mitch> key sound
jack> Is it ok if I refer here to stuff
jack> that was in your letter to me?
Mitch> sure
jack> thanks! You mentioned that
jack> once you started working with the key sound, that you experienced
jack> quite an emotional opening... can you share a little of that with us?
jack> (suggestion press return after every 5 to 10 words or so...
Mitch> as I mentioned, I was practicing here and there during the day. Went to see the bird Cage. Got very emotional, eyes filled with water during the scene where Son outs mother. Stronger response then I expected.
Mitch> Felt very emotional in general after the movie.
jack> Is that different for you?
Mitch> I'm generally open to emotions during good films. However, I felt more so. Then I had the dreams that night that were very different for me. Two in violent surroundings. Not in sync with day at all. And one very tranquil.
jack> How about you other guys, have you noticed anything like this after starting
jack> to work with the Key Sound?
zzzzz> I have had my best experiences using the Key Sound very lowly.
jack> Can you say more zzzzzz?
zzzzz> What happens one time is never completely repeated.
jack> alias Fred?
jack> Would you tell us a little bit about what it's like?
zzzzz> I have felt a direct response in my penis.
zzzzz> Sometimes the feeling has enlarged to a larger area.
zzzzz> But it has never culminated in anything.
jack> Patience, my friend! That will happen!
jack> I suggest
jack> you concern yourself a little less for now
jack> with "culmination" and
Mitch> Is that with just breathing and key sound ashore
zzzzz> Yes,
jack> become more aware of what you ARE experiencing that is DIFFERENT...
jack> I think
jack> it's a potential trap
jack> to be moving through this practice
jack> and to be saying to yourself "nothing is happening" because you
jack> are looking for the "Big O" rather than being aware of what you ARE experiencing that's DIFFERENT.
[zzzzz] Yes. Another thing: although I've searched, I'm not
[zzzzz] sure I have ever located any "hot points"
Ok Fred, no prob for now... I would encourage you to continue
to work with the Key Sound at low volume and intensity for a while, maybe just
add a LITTLE "conventional" stimulation...
and I mean a little bit... so
the other pattern that leads to ejaculorgasm doesn't kick in...
[zzzzz] How much time should I devote to one session?
There'll be time enough for hot spots and BLOWOUT orgasms!
That's really
a matter of your own internal guides! I would
suggest that you practice as long as it feels good to you and
you're not getting bored or tired or frustrated, and
as long as no big emotional issues come up... if they do,
then it's better to take a break from the practice and
address the emotions that came up... otherwise
as long as you're getting feedback from yourself that
it's feeling good and you're not tired, to continue... You
other guys have anything to add?
[R.D.] I've always been very emotional, so I can't say if my feelings intensified in general after
mmo's with the key sound. But, lately, when my partner is
But, lately, when my partner is
[R.D.] pleasuring me
[R.D.] i do a lot of variations
[R.D.] on the key sound and
[R.D.] it seems to vary the intensity
[R.D.] of the multis
[mike] I found that it
[mike] has helped to break down even more
[mike] emotional barriers, really letting go helps
[mike] ovr
[allen] i usually feel pretty open
[allen] and centered after a session
[allen] my sessions still center mostly around
[allen] the rising energy and the pleasure shakes
[allen] that gives me ovr
Allen,
have you
worked with the sound at very low levels as described in
How to Tell When to Use the Key Sound Solo Introduction to Valley
Breath and Key Sound Practice
?
[allen] yes--with results as described above
excellent! Is working with the sounds at that
[allen] perhaps I am still not
oops sorry, go ahead pl
[allen] focusing squarely enough on the erotic aspect
[allen] but it feels great anyway and
[allen] I will blend that in more as time goes on. ovr
Yeah I think
that's a good strategy Allen. I believe the first order of
business, rather than getting right after the erotic, is more like we all
seem to be discussing... for me that takes the form of
concentrating on using the Key sound at low volume and intensity to
gently, very gently open up the heart area... gradually
let ourselves learn to accept the increasing pleasure... for many there
are often tears, trembling, the "shakes" you described allen, etc. I
think that a big way
that we get trapped in the
beginning is to try to get after that intense erotic rush right away... the
fact is that it's my experience that the opening is at least in the beginning
more subtle than that, and DOES involve the heart. ovr
[allen] yes--that seems important--also
[zzzzz] To my knowledge, this is the first time Jack
[zzzzz] has referred to the heart.,
[allen] just experiencing the energy aspect of our being is very nice.
Yes, allen, and I think it's
important for us to take the TIME to do that! re: Fred's comment,
wow! is that true? I never talked about the heart or heart chakra before???
[allen] all such body/energy work should incorporate heart energy
I agree!
for some that
[Mitch] I'm not as connected with my penis as I was before I broke my neck.
Yes Mitch?
[Mitch] My heart center is usually the first sign of erotic stimulation
[zzzzz] I have read testimonials of those who said that
I'm sorry if I was the one who cut in, Mitch.
Yeah just pretend
we're passing the Talking Stick!
Thanks for your courtesy!
Fred, ok if Mitch finishes his point?
[zzzzz] Please.
[Mitch] I'm finished.
For some
there may be some discomfort or just "no grok"
re: our talk about "heart" or "heart chakra" etc so
I'd like to clarify and say that for me when I refer to that, I mean
emotional opening... ovr (I guess the Stick is up for grabs!) :-)
Ah I guess
I'd like to hang
on to the Stick for another moment...
Just long enough to say that
I also want to acknowledge the really cool thing that Fred said,
about this practice leading to a greater feeling of closeness
with our fellows. Anyone else care to comment on that?
[ACTION] jack passing the Stick to the center
[allen] i tend to be a bit of a utopian but
[allen] i do think that if more folks were connected
[allen] to their energy/erotic source that the world would be
[allen] a more peaceful and less alienated place. ovr
I second that! ovr
[Mitch] Amen. ovr
[mike] HO
Well this is a start!
[R.D.] I missed much of this and the last two chats, but Jack has referred to "heart" as an
integral part of thiDoing MMOs w/ a partner is still pretty new for me and I am really amazed at
how vulnerable I can be and how rewarded I am for being so open-hearted!!!
[R.D.] Great start!
All right!!!!
[allen] a lot of us guys have much conditioning to overcome.
... a lot of UNlearning, and... REMEMBERING...
for me,
that was how I first discovered this, was to
assume that the HOW is coded into our DNA, that somehow our culture (which just also
happens
to be a very violent, intolerant one at times) has lead us AWAY
from this knowledge... but that if we start by just assuming as a "working
hypothesis" that the how of this really is coded into our DNA, then it becomes
a process of REMEMBERING... of letting our deeper self teach us! So
it's not like we have to learn something entirely new,
we just need to relax and listen to the "Echo Effects" our body sends us
as we use the Key Sound and its accompanying Valley Breath to
REAWAKEN these memories! By the way, I'd like to know
if anyone has any specific questions about their practice, like what to do
ing the door til next time ight be stuck, or ??? ovr
(By the way,I'm real impressed with the heart I hear in the comments I'm reading here; the
respectful inquisitiveness, the honesty, the give and take)
[R.D.] My partner and I are going to start work
[R.D.] or play! on passing
[R.D.] the Kundalini
[R.D.] to and fro! Yo!
Great! I urge you to begin very slowly and
[allen] sounds great R.D.!
try the exercises as described in Introduction to Key Sound for Partners
[Mitch] When is it time to bad stimulation?
[Mitch] Add not bad sorry
[Mitch] over
I would say that once you
[zzzzz] Good question!
are more or less "grooved in" to using the sound at very low volume, and
the emotional opening has... well, quieted down a little... that's not
exactly what I mean, but, after you really feel
your heart/emotions opening, and you've moved through the tears, joy, etc.
of the initial stages... once you begin to feel like the Key Sound is
comfortable and familiar to you, and
you're feeling centered like Allen was describing, then
I would suggest you begin with a LITTLE bit of erotic stimulation, and then
keep checking in with yourself emotionally. Because as
soon as you begin to use erotic stimulation, it's very possible that
more furballs will surface... I get a lot of reports from guys at this stage
saying that they start remembering shame from childhood about self-pleasuring,
religious training that defines this practice as evil rather than sacred, etc.
So once again,
here is another possible pitfall as you
move into this stage, because there can be a certain tendency
to PUSH ON beyond these feelings by increasing stimulation more
to try to feel better. Paradoxically, I find that that is usually counterproductive,
I'd suggest once again, being really aware of what your deeper self is
communicating to you at this time in the form of feelings, physical sensations,
memories, and as Mitch illustrated in his letter to me, DREAMS! ovr
Was that helpful?
[zzzzz] Very helpful.
Great! I'd
also encourage you to take another
look at the article
How to Tell When to Use the Key Sound
where I believe
I mentioned the concept of ONLY using the Key
Sound at a volume that matches your level and intensity of feeling... in fact,
that's a crucial thing to learn! so rather than forcing a really loud Key Sound
artificially, let your physical and emotional responses lead the way... as
that kind of energy echoes back to your conscious mind, use the
Key Sound as I describe in the Timing article to
express congruently the quality and intensity of those echoes. Does that make sense?
[Mitch] Yes. Thanks alot for the info and your commitment. I have to go now, will keep
experimenting. Enjoyed this chat and appreciated everyone's sharing. Bye. ovr.
OK Mitch bye and thanks. By the way Mitch
is it ok if I publish your letter and my response, without email etc. of course?
[zzzzz] Before you go, Mitch, I'd like to thank Jack again -- in the presence of all of you -- for
getting me ivolved in this. Taking part in the chat has made me feel less alone and, yes, even odd
for being interested.
[Mitch] I haven't read your response yet but I think that will be fine
[Mitch] let me confirm that by e-mail
[allen] bye Mitch thanks for chattin'
[Mitch] ovr
[mike] Bye Mitch ***
Thanks Mitch! I'll wait for your email... to confirm
[ACTION] jack hugging Mitch goodbye
[Mitch] hugs to all
Thanks for your generous spirit Fred!
Bye Mitch!!!!
[mike] Hugs
[mike] to mitch
[R.D.] Bye Mitch! Jack, what you just described really gels with the "variations" I talked about;
letting something other than my mind modulate the sounding.
[mike] Thx Fred !
Ah yes R.D., can you say more about that?
[R.D.] Well, i just remember
[R.D.] letting something in me
[R.D.] do the sounding and
[R.D.] it would go quiet and "sweet" and
[R.D.] then louder, etc
[R.D.] and the multis would just wash across me
[R.D.] It was soooo wonderful!
[R.D.] and She sed "this must be the best
[R.D.] kept secret in the world!"
Not any more, it's on the Internet!
[R.D.] She was right!
[R.D.] OOOPS
Yeah, I think up til now what your partner
sed is true! I really
liked what you sed about the "sweetness" of the sound and feelings at times,
that really struck a chord for me!
ovr
[R.D.] Yeah, I'm getting emotional now!
Well, you know what to do with it! :-)
[mike] Love you R.D........
[R.D.] But I can't say how happy I am!
I think you just did!!!
AND I hear
[R.D.] 53, "mostly erectionless, and having the best sex of my life!!!
[zzzzz] So do I!
That's some great testimony, brothers!
[R.D.] And feeling the deepest love of my life.
[R.D.] Not just for my partner but for MEN, who
[R.D.] used to terrify me!
I second THAT emotion!
[mike] sing it girl
[R.D.] I would like to hear from other "impotent" guys.
Yeah, that's a good idea R.D.! And
[R.D.] Compare notes!
[allen] even for "potent" guys--
one of the first things I'd like to offer them is to find another word
[zzzzz] I'm not impotent, R.D., but I have no sex life.
besides "impotent" which means "without power."
Well, brother Fred, it sounds like you're starting to get one again!
[R.D.] Yeah! Stupid word!
[allen] the knowledge that you don't need an erection or a partner
[R.D.] As if I were sterile too
[allen] to have great eros/energy experiences has great implications
[allen] sorry for the overlap
no prob, teach!
[R.D.] ME ttoo
[mike] *
[mike] time ?
[zzzzz] I belong to a terrific men's group and it never fails to amaze us how similar we all are.
Indeed Fred!
[mike] for sure !
Really is revolutionary to trance-end the competitiveness,
[R.D.] Yeah, me too.
the aggressiveness the one-upping. The zero sum "winning is the ONLY thing." etc.
[zzzzz] I don't understand you, Jack
[mike] BUFFERS
[zzzzz] You just made it clear.
Great!
Yeah, we've been here for a coupla hours now... maybe
we should consider putting a bookmark in til next week. I'm into doing this
at this same time and day each week so we have some consistency, even
if you good folk can't always make it each time, like Mitch has some other
commitments sometimes, but generally will this work for you?
[zzzzz] Yes. A very good idea.
[allen] a set time each week would be great but
[mike] eXCELLENT !!
[allen] it still doesn't mean i can make it each time
[mike]
right allen, but generally might this work for you?
[allen] yes--monday or thursday eves might be best
[zzzzz] Thursdays are not always good for me.
copy, but unfortunately the rest of us are SOL on those nites...
me either, Fred!
[allen] well tues or weds can work sometimes for me
Ok, maybe for now we can try that, knowing allen that we'll certainly miss you
[allen] like tonight!
when you aint here, and look forward to when you can be!
[allen] of course, I will check the web site and can be
[allen] reached by email when necessary
Well boys?
[mike] Another great nite
[mike] ovr
[allen] hugs hugs hugs hugs!!!!
[ACTION] mike hugging allen
[allen] I've never figured out how to do an "action"
[ACTION] jack hugging allen, Fred, mike, R.D. who got bumped off the system, and Mitch in
absentia
[zzzzz] Thanks, all!
[mike] Thx for joining us Fred !!
easy just type /me (action)
Yeah Fred, congrats on your
[allen] thanks jack
persistence in working with me to help you get chat figured out.
After all that hassle figuring out chat, Male Multiple Orgasm will be a breeze!!! :-)
[ACTION] allen (action) hugs some more all around
You're welcome allen, and congrats on grokking action!
[mike] chow
Amen!
[allen] good night now...
g'night allen
I'll turn out the lites on the way out...
[mike] See you all !!!
thanks for makin it mike!
[zzzzz] Look forward to next time!
[mike] : ) me too fred! c.u.!
[ACTION] jack turning off the lites, closing the door til next time