• Feeling contractions below your genitals
• "I was trying too hard!" MikeB talks about lowering expectations
• Tuning into the automatic abdominal movement (erotic "ab crunches"!) that occur when using the Key Sound™ correctly, and how this movement pumps up the erotic energy throughout your body and allows you to bypass ejaculation, without using any squeeze technique, or other "last minute before it's too late" method.
• "Becoming vulnerable"

MikeB> good morning, jack
jack> glad to see you again!
mike> Howdy Mike B
MikeB> howdy, mike.
jack> So... what's new?
MikeB> jack, thanks for sending me the transcript of the last discussion
MikeB> it was very informative.
jack> ah good! More to your liking, I take it!
jack> What thots or comments might it have stimulated?
MikeB> let's just say it was more in terms that I can understand and relate to.
jack> Good! Was
jack> any of the info... i.e. did anything get discussed that gave
MikeB> I was particularly interested in Carlos' comments on "pushing" with
MikeB> the valley breathing.
jack> yes? in what way?
MikeB> I had a similar experience early on...I was just trying to hard.
jack> You know I think that's the most common roadblock
jack> how did you make the shift?
MikeB> I just had to learn to relax and tune into the good feelings.
jack> Yeah! That's what I'm going to
jack> emphasize a lot more from now on...
jack> something that
MikeB> and I lowered my expectations, and then was pleasantly surprised.
jack> That's a REALLY valuable tip!
jack> It's paradoxical, isn't it?
MikeB> by lowering expectations, i mean that i decided that this may not
MikeB> feel like a conventional orgasm.
jack> could you elucidate the differences for you?
MikeB> so i opened myself to feel whatever was i was going to feel.
MikeB> as i've said before, these orgasms are more subtle.
MikeB> i had to learn to feel them, to be aware of them
MikeB> they're more like the minor contractions that i've sometimes
MikeB> experienced while masturbating that don't result in ejaculation.
MikeB> but different, because there's not sense of holding back.
jack> Excellent!
jack> That's what I was really happy about too, getting the benefits, but NOT having
jack> to hold back...
jack> How has the intensity
jack> compared with orgs with ejac?
MikeB> the intensity is more difuse, i would say.
jack> rather than focussed just in the penis?
MikeB> these are just as intense, but spread over a much longer period of time.
jack> Kinda nice, huh?
MikeB> yes, jack, and not focused in just the penis.
jack> You mentioned contractions... so there was some autonomic
jack> i.e. parasympathetic or "automatic" muscle
jack> movements that started happening, correct?
MikeB> yes. I feel very distinct contractions with my lower hand.
jack> do these movements
jack> include the belly muscles, or
jack> more concentrated in the area around the genitals and the "lower" penis?
MikeB> meaning, I can feel the muscles contract in the area below my scrotum.
MikeB> jack, definitely concentrated in the lower penis.
jack> I see... that checks with my experience, altho for me the stomach is
jack> also involved... how about you, Mike D?
mike> I believe
mike> when I started
mike> with the technique
mike> my focus was like
mike> mike b's
mike> then it spread
mike> thru out my body jack
mike> to where this feeling now moves up into
mike> my chest and back down
mike> with the breathing and
mike> paradoxical belly movement
mike> feels like my body comes alive
mike> !
MikeB> what do you mean by paradoxical belly movement, mike?
mike> What I am referring
mike> to is the expansion of my abdomen
mike> down with the out
mike> breath
MikeB> ok, I see.
jack> So MikeB that might be
jack> something to watch for... to see if the movements expand
jack> to other areas, namely into that belly area...
jack> for me it feels like a wave rolling downward
jack> thru my belly muscles, culminating
jack> in the contractions you (MikeB) were describing... for me sometimes
jack> the lower area MikeB described actually felt like it expanded or swelled with
jack> energy as the feeling wave reached that area... that ever
jack> happen to either of you?
mike> yes
MikeB> the "swelling" that you refer to may be what i'm calling contractions.
jack> aha great! I'm
jack> really grateful for the dialogue because it helps
jack> all of us continue to refine our
jack> description of our experience... yeah MikeB, to me
MikeB> i've also felt a sort of electric current that runs from one leg to the
jack> it really feels sometimes like a real power SURGE!
MikeB> other through my genital area.
jack> HA! electric current YES!
jack> does your body ever shake
jack> when this current is running?
MikeB> jack, i think i mentioned to you in an e-mail that my body sort of
MikeB> vibrates.
MikeB> when this "current" is running.
jack> ah yes, you did! BTW how long
jack> or how many times
jack> had you worked with the info when "the Gate" opened
jack> i.e. when
jack> you first noticed these new
jack> kinds of orgasms?
MikeB> i had been working with your tape for about a month, i'd guess.
jack> how often?
MikeB> fairly diligently...two or three times a week.
jack> Good, that'll give "our readers" a sense of what it might take... I
MikeB> i listened to the tape repeated
jack> yes go on pls
MikeB> as i used your techniques, i just relaxed into the feelings.
MikeB> when i finally reached the "vibrating" state, it came as a pleasant
MikeB> surprise. it wasn't what i "expected", but it was very pleasurable.
jack> Relax maybe being a key word, there, instead of pushing?
jack> or forcing?
MikeB> exactly.
mike> WOW that's great !
jack> what role if any was sound
jack> playing in your discovery process?
MikeB> i wasn't really comfortable with the sound. but when i reached this
MikeB> state, it was almost involuntary...and very pleasant.
jack> did the sound contain
jack> any "rolling" quality to it
jack> or was
MikeB> i generally don't vocalize the sounds until the orgasms start.
MikeB> instead, i "visualize" the sound.
jack> Yeah, I remember you're mentioning
jack> that and I think it's a VERY
jack> valuable tip for those not comfortable with
jack> sound in the beginning... BTW have you worked
jack> at all with the info in those three
jack> recent articles I posted?
jack> soft sound?
MikeB>jack, i haven't read them yet.
jack> ?ACTION light wrist slap?
jack> I'll be
MikeB> ouch!
jack> you're welcome! Anyway,
jack> I'll be very interested
jack> to know what changes if any they
jack> might stimulate... what expansions I guess is
jack> what I'd rather say...
jack> I'm also interested in your read of them because
jack> of the one that describes introducing
jack> a partner to the process, and you had
jack> asked about that...
MikeB> jack, i have a question or at least an observation that i hope is
MikeB> not to explicit for here.
jack> go ahead pls, I dont think
jack> there are any erotofascists too close nearby!
MikeB> i produce a lot of, for lack of a better term, precum during Male Multiple Orgasm sessions.
MikeB> much more than with "normal" masturbation.
MikeB> is that common?
mike> WOW mikeb
mike> glad you brought up
mike> I too have that happen
mike> It is the
MikeB> mike, it reassuring to know i'm not a freak of nature, then.
mike> oh no way !
jack> That's one of the reasons I
jack> created this chat channel too! So we can
jack> all real eyes that our experience
jack> IS shared by others... that to me
jack> underscores BIG TIME that this stuff IS coded into our DNA
jack> and that there IS a strong component of allowing our body
jack> to REMEMBER, once we can let go of the conditioning
jack> and as MikeB says, to relax... also,
jack> the precum (I believe
jack> it's called Cowper's fluid) may be a sign that the contractions or
jack> expansions are in fact
jack> massaging or affecting
jack> the prostate... is that where Cowper's comes from?
jack> the prostate? mikeD you have a reading on that?
mike> Oh most definitely ! I think it's a stimulated yet relaxed state
MikeB> actually, jack, i think it comes from the cowper's gland.
mike> for the over worked prostrate
jack> I image the expansions/contractions MikeB is describing would be affecting
jack> this gland as well as the prostate or maybe INSTEAD of the prostate?
mike> sure
mike> a form of lubrication
jack> BTW for the record I too have had this experience, esp in longer sessions...
MikeB> that's reassuring, jack.
jack> good! It probably doesn't HAVE
jack> to be happening, but it's another one of those milestones
jack> along the way... any other comments on this point?
MikeB> nope
jack> ok, thanks for the question. That was a good one! What suggestions
jack> or advice MikeB would you have for
jack> the men who've written to me saying that they've tried
jack> but they keep "failing" and reaching ejaculation?
MikeB> basically, i would suggest that they throw away all expectations
MikeB> about what mmo's are going to feel like.
mike> exactly
MikeB> just use the techniques, and tune into whatever you're feeling.
jack> Would that include to quit "trying to reach orgasm?"
MikeB> and..RELAX.
jack> yeah, take your time!
jack> lower and slower!
MikeB> absolutely! these don't feel like ejaculatory orgasm, so don't try
MikeB> for that old familiar feeling.
jack> that certainly rings true for me! Instead
jack> of those old familiar feelings, I'd like
jack> to reinforce the idea as you mentioned MikeB
jack> that those FEELINGS are the key. That instead of trying
jack> to make an orgasm happen, to focus on the feelings, especially
jack> the ones that feel good, but
jack> in a NEW way... like
jack> I was saying to Carlos... the DIFFERENT good feelings... I really
jack> believe that working with just exploring and expanding them
jack> leads to the Gate... like those feelings a thread we
jack> can follow to lead us to the Gate...
MikeB> in a way, jack, it's like learning to masturbate for the fisrt time.
MikeB> before you first had an orgasm, you didn't know what those feelings
MikeB> were.
mike> MikeB did you have any emotional things come up
mike> for you ?
mike> When you
mike> decided to let go
mike> ?
MikeB> in a way, mike.
MikeB> when i decided to try this, it was a decision to be good to myself.
jack> That's an excellent start!
MikeB> i've sorta worked on that as i've explored this.
mike> Good for you man
mike> I've found that
mike> it has helped me look around
mike> my own life
mike> ie, Being good
mike> to myself and taking risks for myself
jack> I REALLY relate to that MikeB and mike! It can be a challenge actually to allow ourselves to OPEN enough to ACCEPT the pleasure that's wanting to come through!
jack> For me it has not been uncommon for tears of joy
jack> and gratitude to be streaming down my face as
jack> these waves of pleasure roll through!
mike> ?ACTION smile?
mike> Hey mikeb do you
mike> have a partner involved with this ?
MikeB> no, mike, i'm doing this solo.
mike> Cool, my house is a bit congested most of the time
mike> But, my wife is
MikeB> my question to jack about involving a partner was because
mike> very supportive
MikeB> i have trouble imagining involving a partner is such a "me"-centered
MikeB> experience.
mike> Oh for sure ,
mike> nothing wrong with
mike> having something
mike> for yourself !!!
jack> I grok your concern tho,
jack> that's where for me the sound, at LOW volume (at least at first) enters
jack> the picture... because for me the energy gets shared
jack> with a partner through eye contact while passing the orgasmic energy
jack> through the sound... basically the message
jack> i give to a partner is more or less "This is how deeply
jack> I'm enjoying being with you. This is
jack> my deepest self responding to you!" Messages like that...
mike> Jack, did you feel real vulnerable
mike> at first with a partner?
jack> Absolutely! Very opened up... and... a lot of questions
jack> (and this STILL happens at times, if you can
jack> believe it) questions about "Does this really seem orgasmic
jack> to YOU (partner)?" The answer thank goodness has always been
jack> an enthusiastic YES! But that vulnerability, and sense of being
jack> "laid open" is very much a part of it. TERRIFIC with a sympatico partner!
MikeB> jack, sharing this with a partner must involve an incredible level of trust.
jack> Absolutely MikeB! And
jack> a lot of communication! That's why I think
jack> it's REALLY important to discuss this with a partner before
jack> you are just suddenly in the throes of it and
jack> all of this sound is happening, etc. One time
jack> in a tantric workshop we were all doing some
jack> breathwork designed to lead to a certain kind of orgasmic state
jack> and so of course when I got all charged up I started expressing myself
jack> (smile) in the way I had learned. And this person knew ahead of time that I'd
jack> discovered a multi-orgasmic process involving sound. But
jack> in spite of that, when I got into the orgasm+sound process,
jack> she kind of freaked and thot I was having a flashback to painful childhood
jack> memories, so I definitely had to clarify that for her! So... my point is,
MikeB>
jack> that talking about it first, and then doing the practice
jack> I describe in that new article about intro to VB with a partner... i.e
jack> practicing passing the sound back and forth but very quietly at first! Very
jack> gently, NO forcing... I hope that's helpful MikeB...
MikeB> yes, jack. thanks.
jack> Great! BTW mike will be back in a moment. His "buffer" was full and his
jack> chat program lost its mind!
jack> Anyway, MikeB, the key I think is in taking a little bit of a risk in sharing this
jack> with a partner or potential partner... a REALLY got tip I got by reading
jack> Charles Whitfield about sharing vulnerable stuff is what he
jack> calls the "Share-check-share" process... i.e. share a little bit of this
jack> with someone, then CHECK on their response... are you getting a green lite?
jack> yellow? or bright red?
jack> If green, offer "some" more, THEN CHECK AGAIN, if yellow, maybe slow it
MikeB> yep, jack, that's a technique i use in all of my relationships.
jack> down, ask how s/he's feeling, etc. see if furrballs are getting knocked loose.
jack> If red, same thing only emphasizing the importance of not going
jack> further with that person until they are comfortable. Does that share-check-share
jack> model help any?
MikeB> i use it all the time jack...and not just with partners.
jack> Ah good! So I think
jack> this is a very important situation in which
jack> to use it... so you'll BOTH feel more comfortable... so in that
jack> exercise I describe MikeB, I think you might get a way for the process to be
jack> coming from your me-based experience, but you're not just on your own trip, because
jack> you are communicating your experience thru sound and eye contact, and
jack> then responding to THEIR response. It can really get
jack> a very hot "loop" of energy going, when the partner gets with this kind of use of sound
jack> to transmit the energy to the partner. The good news
jack> is that women especially seem to frequently respond to this quite readily
jack> because according to their report, this kind of experience in the man
jack> is quite similar to THEIR erotic experience and so some say things to the
jack> effect that "Wow! Now THIS is the kind of interaction I've been looking for!" In
jack> fact one woman suggested we start a directory of men who know how to do this
jack> because some women really want to meet them!!!
MikeB> lol
jack>
mike> alot of women in SD
MikeB> indeed, mike, there are.
jack> they can just dial in to 1-900-Key Sound!
jack> in our dreams, eh?
MikeB> lol!
MikeB> i've often wondered if mmo's were closer to what women feel at orgasm.
jack> Seriously, tho, the word is starting to spread about this...
jack> Yes MikeB I HAVE got
jack> that from a number of women with whom
jack> I have shared the information! And they are really
jack> excited and hopeful for the potential
jack> of going deeper with the man!
jack> Some day it's going to be interesting to actually
jack> do some neurological comparison of the two experiences to see
jack> just how similar they might be!
jack> That's the thing... by
jack> knowing how to do this, you have something extra special to
jack> offer a partner, that can be a welcome change from the more goal-oriented style
jack> that men can get into... I'm not saying that
jack> the old fashioned way is bad... this just greatly expands our repertoire!
mike> Oh what a medley !
MikeB> symphony, mike?
jack> absolutely!
jack> So MikeB, I hope you'll check back in with us once you've had a chance to look
jack> over those new articles...
MikeB> will do, Jack.
jack> Anything else for today before we wrap?
MikeB> nothing here.
mike> Not from me, Great info and courage
mike> MikeB
jack> I second that!
mike> thanks for coming on line
MikeB> mike, i'm usually not so extroverted, but i wanted to share with
mike> so to speak
MikeB> others.
MikeB>
mike> Excellent ! : )
jack> That's really generous, MikeB, I appreciate your taking the risk! I
jack> hope it continues to be fruitful for you!
MikeB> thanks, jack.
jack> You're very welcome. Thanks for checkin in. Pls keep in touch!
mike> See Ya mike B
MikeB> See ya mike & jack.
jack> Have fun with your homework!
jack> ACTION waving bye bye
mike> ACTION waving