• Laly and Drew join Jack for a discussion of a workshop they attended and a follow up counseling session for Laly.
• Laly tells Jack about a disturbing experience at an emotional workshop she and Drew attended and how she dealt with it.
• Laly describes a follow up session with her counselor in which she related the story of her molestation as a child and reports that afterwards she has felt uplifted.

Session Start: Thu Jan 18 17:58:04 2007
Jack> How are you each tonight?
Laly> on um cloud 1000 and 1
Laly> :P
Jack> Well Drew, how about we start off by handing YOU the Talking Stick, if Laly doesn't mind, since we so often defer to newbies?
Laly> I don't mind Jack.
Jack> Thanks!
Drew> Hmmm.... Not in that talkative of a mood this evening.
Drew> Plus, I haven't 'practiced' in a while.
Drew> Besides, I get a sense that Laly is bursting at the seams!
Jack> No worries at all... and I'm thinking that some readers might nevertheless like to know what effect having learned the skill may have on your life over the years, with or without formal practice.
Jack> How about a few lines to that effect? Only if you care to tho - as always.
Drew> Hmmm... Lemme think about that one for a few.
Jack> k.
Jack> Sounds like Laly has something to say, meanwhile. Yes?
Laly> what jack?
Jack> Drew indicated you might be bursting at the seams.
Jack> No worries - didja see my reply to your "what jack"?
Laly> he has inside information jack :-).
Laly> yeah I got it.
Jack> Right, re: inside info. How about clarifying that for the readers, if you don't mind?
Laly> which part , how he knew or ??
Laly> as for how he knew , I spoke to Drew this afternoon.
Jack> Both, if you don't mind. I imagine it might be a helpful context for the readers - but of course only to the extent you both are comfortable sharing about it.
Laly> Well as you know and I've posted in the Wiki site, I've been seeing a really
Laly> great counselor for my sexual molestation and date rape issues.
Jack> For reference, would you pls post here a link to that wiki thread?
Laly> sure
Jack> Thanks!
Laly> http://www.multiples.com/orgasmwiki/...covery_journey
Laly> this past weekend I did sort of a double emotional workshop/counseling session
Laly> together.
Jack> How did it go?
Laly> the workshop- not so good emotional-
Laly> I literally broke down.
Laly> I broke down emotionally
Laly> not that I wanted to- but something and someone/s triggered old painful memories.
Laly> regarding the abuse as a child.
Jack> That sounds incredibly painful - what happened then?
Laly> well most of Saturday nite and Sunday cried a lot.
Laly> was so upset , cause the person the workshop members saw WAS not the person I wanted them to see.
Jack> "the person" being you, or the person whose presence seemed to trigger the memories?
Laly> saw a woman so full of fear- she hid in the corner.
Jack> ah... understood!
Laly> couldn't join in the group., etc.
Jack> In spite of the terror you were feeling from that triggering, overall did you feel that experiencing this in the group felt in some way supportive of your process?
Laly> *taking deep breath n releases.
Jack> Yeah, good! I realize that even now it's probably not easy to talk about.
Laly> I think in a way they understood
Laly> that I was going through something, but not what.
Jack> What happened then?
Laly> at one point I had to run out of the room, nearing running over a workshop member in the process
Laly> .
Laly> had to get away from the thing / person that was triggering this unwanted emotion.
Laly> until I could re-align myself and compose myself to go back in there.
Laly> until I could re-align myself and compose myself to go back in there.
Jack> That really makes sense: Still close enough to deal with the experience clearly and successfully - but far enough away to do so as safely and as comfortably as possible, under the circumstances.
Laly> until I could get myself back under control
Laly> I calmed myself with help of a workshop member
Laly> I got some help thru it and was able to go back in.
Jack> I think it's really wonderful that as awful as you were feeling in that moment - you did not leave completely - but remained connected to the group and its process - until you felt able to return.
Laly> I wanted to tho jack-- totally leave , walk out.
Laly> let me correct that - the LITTLE GIRL wanted to leave, run away.
Laly> made it as far as the doorway and I made her stop.
Jack> That's really a big step imho. You were able to help her get far enough way to compose herself and catch her breath - but you didn't just disappear.
Laly> yeah- thing is , I wanted to keep going
Jack> And you got some help that you could trust.
Jack> Keep going out the door?
Laly> uh huh.
Laly> but I knew I couldn't do that to the other members
Laly> would worry them , not knowing where I was.
Laly> and me not knowing the town either.
Jack> EXCELLENT JUDGMENT in the middle of a VERY INTENSE CRISIS!
Laly> so I stood at the doorway trembling like mad.
Laly> wishing with all my heart to release the angeers he was feeling inside (the little girl)
Laly> * she
Laly> and the fear.
Jack> That makes total sense to me!
Laly> once I was able to do that- I was so weak I stumbled a few times
Jack> You felt the fear - very intense fear - but you stood your ground!
Laly> and a great and caring workshop member helped me back to my chair
Jack> No doubt that you stumbled! That intensity of fear tends to trigger a very intense adrenaline rush.
Laly> bless her soul .
Jack> YOU WERE NOT ALONE!
Laly> well it didn't help that I didn't eat lunch either jack
Jack> THAT IS ***VERY*** DIFFERENT THAN WHEN THE ATTACK ORIGINALLY OCCURRED!
Laly> uh huh.
Jack> If hadn't eaten lunch - it coulda been cuz the Little One knew it was time to feel these feelings in a safer context, where you have a chance to HEAL FURTHER.
Laly> I was able to move up into the group- but only by hugging the chair next to the wall away from the person triggering those feelings.
Laly> putting as much space between us as possible
Laly> they tried getting me to go out there jack.
Jack> YET NOT LEAVING THE FIELD - BUT CONFRONTING YOUR FEARS.
Laly> ** and Drew.
Jack> Go out where? To the middle or ?
Laly> out in the foyer and with the group
Laly> to 'mingle'/
Jack> [** is Laly's counselor - Drew is also in the group]
Laly> .
Jack> Do you mean at the break or something?
Laly> thanks- was just typing that jack .
Jack> :-)
Laly> at the lunch hour yeah.
Jack> How did that go?
Laly> is as close to physical fighting as I want to get jack without BEING physical.
Jack> Fighting with... ?
Laly> **
Jack> What happened then?
Laly> had a hold of my arm and trying to get me up out of the chair.
Jack> YIKES!
Laly> grabbed me and tried getting me up
Laly> grabbed me by the arm and tried to get me up.
Laly> :-(.
Laly> wasn't having any part of it= shrugged her off.
Jack> How did you feel when you did that?
Laly> very very
Laly> I cant say anger
Laly> wasn't anger
Laly> but more of- I didn't want to
Laly> was that fear there
Laly> beyond a reasoning state of mind at that point.
Laly> I was back at that nite and the guy raping me - holding me down
Laly> grabbing me= rough.
Jack> WHEW!
Laly> but I also knew it wasn't him per se.
Laly> was like two worlds intermingled
Laly> hard to distinguish between the two.
Jack> Yeah but you did RECOGNIZE that they were two DIFFERENT worlds.
Laly> yeah.
Jack> Even in the middle of all of that fear!
Laly> that is what made it so hard.
Laly> and why it hurt so much.
Jack> Yeah, because you really DID seem to be reliving the abuse - but in an environment where you COULD make SOME distinction between that was then and this is now.
Laly> I couldn't close the doorway to that other half.
Laly> yeah- exactly.
Laly> and was too afraid to ask for help.
Laly> fear of pulling them in too.
Jack> Yeah that kind of abuse results not just in one fear - but a bundle of fears...
Jack> What happened then?
Laly> I made it through the workshop.
Jack> How did you feel about that?
Laly> but then at the end we all gather in a circle and hug each other and sing a song if we know the words.
Laly> relived but still sad for my attitude
Jack> why?
Laly> because I wanted to be a more actively involved person with the group.
Laly> and couldn't
Laly> .
Jack> yet...
Jack> .
Laly> anyway- with the group hug
Laly> who should I be put between BUT the guy who set off my fears in the first place
Laly> and **.
Laly> * crys
Jack> :-(
Jack> Who put you there?
Laly> no one PUT me there
Laly> was the only 'open' place
Jack> Oh - you said you were put between.
Drew> Maybe "God"?
Laly> I will be honest and say I shook my hear no at **
Laly> I shook my head at ** and very
Laly> I shook my head no at **
Laly> but I went anyway
Laly> head down
Laly> I couldn't look at her or him
Laly> and I could NOT touch him
Laly> out my arm over his wife's
Laly> *put
Laly> and when he put his arm behind my back-
Laly> I was trembled and shaking so bad
Laly> kept my face to the floor and was mute.
Laly> Drew- umm care to relay a part of the story here -
Drew> I'm not sure what you want me to say.
Laly> about you joining in
Laly> with the group.
Drew> My own experience?
Laly> sort of- what I said to you
Laly> "if I GOTTA DO THIS
Laly> then so do you."
Drew> Now I remember.
Laly> that is the hardest 5 minutes
Laly> because it sets off so many triggers
Laly> in me and for me.
Laly> *sighs- k nuff of that.
Jack> Drew, I'm wondering how Laly's experience in the group was affecting you emotionally.
Jack> [Sharing and to what extent is _always_ optional here!]
Drew> It was hard for me.
Drew> I also had my own personal issues that came up.
Drew> I was needing to process through those.
Drew> It's typically hard for me to witness someone in pain... Any kind of pain.
Drew> I want to help, yet feel helpless.
Drew> At the same time, I do my best to offer encouragement and support.
Laly> * starts to cry
Drew> I don't always know whether it's making a difference.
Jack> What's your hunch in this instance?
Drew> My 'hunch' is affirmative...
Drew> I would say Laly has already come a very long way in the last few months...
Drew> Although I've been a catalyst in her growth process, it's her amazing courage that's helping her to take the steps she needs to heal.
Jack> What say, Laly?
Laly> what can I say- he;s right
Jack> about?
Laly> but if NOT for him I wouldn't have had to courage to start
Laly> to be able to see ** ,
Laly> he IS HELPING
Laly> and I feel he can never BE HELPLESS
Laly> in anyway.
Laly> breaks my heart just to hear him say it.
Laly> No one has ever gone out of there way for me like he has.
Laly> on one has cared enough
Laly> not even myself,
Jack> Laly, you were saying that b4 Drew, no one has cared enough to be there for you...
Laly> is true.
Laly> opens his home to me - place to stay- own room
Laly> picks me up, makes sure I get to appointments.
Jack> WOW!
Laly> (i don't drive for those of you wondering)
Laly> YET!!
Laly> one of the things I am working on
Jack> ATTAGIRL! LIKIN THAT "YET" A LOT!
Laly> I thought u would jack.
Jack> :-)
Jack> Drew, how is what Laly is saying about you affecting you emotionally?
Drew> IT feels good... Nice to lend a helping hand.
Jack> I'm very glad to hear that IT is feeling good! ;-)
Laly> if fact , he wouldn't let me get out of my counseling appointment Monday
Jack> That rascal!
Laly> was REALLY dreading it.
Drew> < is a real baddass!
Laly> lol.
Jack> You know it, Baybay!
Laly> took ALL my willpower n courage just to walk to her door
Laly> when I wanted nothing more that to run n hide.
Laly> *than
Jack> What happened when you did walk to her door?
Laly> so full of dread
Jack> and then?
Laly> I couldn't look up
Laly> but at floor
Laly> stood at the back of kitchen chair just focusing on breathing in and out
Laly> trying to calm my heart rate- which was out of sight at that point.
Laly> anyway she and I go back
Laly> to begin.
Laly> asks how I've been and I reply bad
Laly> or not good- cant remember exact words.
Laly> and she asks me where we should begin the session.
Laly> I am mentally flipping thru on just what I want to begin with - SOO many things there,
Laly> and I say- well
Laly> lets us begin with what happened this weekend.
Jack> I'm sure you were thrilled to hear THAT!
Laly> NOT
Jack> Yep. NOT!
Jack> :-)
Laly> I couldn't believe I chose it jack!!
Jack> But like a recovery buddy of mine likes to say: "Oh Sh*t, Thank God!"
Laly> * keels ove and laughs
Laly> *over
Laly> yeah
Jack> That is VERY COOL to CLAIM that you DID make that CHOICE to go after the HEALING no matter how scary!
Laly> anyway we talk about the behaviors surrounding my attitude over the weekend.
Laly> and ever so calmly she asks me about the molestation as a child
Laly> to talk about it.
Jack> Oh Sh*t, Thank God!
Laly> so I did-
Laly> when it started, how long,
Laly> why I hid it from my parents and his for so long.
Laly> did I start to like it at some point ? those kind of questions
Laly> really really - umm
Laly> in depth - I wanna say.,
Laly> and we got to the point that I admitted that the abuse was with more than 1 guy
Laly> at times.
Jack> W H E W.
Jack> Was this the first time you ever heard yourself saying that out loud to someone?
Jack> By this time, I meant when you were saying this to **?
Laly> *nods head yes
Jack> W H E W.
Jack> AT LONG LAST, eh?
Laly> yeah- not even Drew would I even speak of it.
Laly> it is a very de-humanizing and de-moralizing thing to go through.
Jack> To say the very very least, eh?
Laly> once let alone as many times as happened.
Jack> Absolutely horrible.
Laly> that is why touching the genital is SOO hard jack
Jack> And absolutely marvelous that you at last found a safe enough place to GIVE VOICE to what was done to you.
Laly> true.
Jack> Totally understood re: genital touch still difficult.
Laly> and why when I WAS able to -
Laly> a HUGE triumph
Jack> YES!!!!!!!!!!!
Jack> < tears
Jack> Way to CLAIM YOUR TRIUMPH!
Jack> You have TOTALLY EARNED IT!
Laly> since Monday 0 have been so uplifted
Laly> my joy has NO limit
Laly> my heart SINGS
Jack> YAAAAYYYY!!!!
Laly> had to keep grounding myself today
Laly> felt like I was floating on a cloud of contentment
Jack> SWEET!
Jack> And so very well deserved!
Laly> my entire back was awashed in energy and Echos like you wouldn't
Laly> believe.
Jack> :-)
Jack> PAYDAY!
Laly> and as I mentioned to you-in a personal chat
Laly> may address the FC workshop
Jack> Yes, very cool. FC = Family Constellation Workshop.
Laly> and let them know JUST how much they are helping
Jack> EXCELLENT IDEA!!!
Jack> Laly and Drew... I regret that I must now end this chat, much as I don't want to. I'm at a wifi location and am getting booted out - oit
Jack> it's closing time.
Laly> okay jack
Laly> we can continue next time
Jack> HUGE HUGS TO BOTH OF YOU! OMG what a moving story of courage Laly, and selfless caring, Drew!
Jack> Yes... bookmarked and pls keep blogging in the wiki!
Jack> BYE FOR NOW!!!
Laly> byee HUGS
Drew> Bye Jack
Jack> Bye Drew, HUGS!
Session Close: Thu Jan 18 20:04:21 2007