• smithie, Marq, Marty, and hlaser99 join Jack for a discussion of taking breaks from practice, initial Echo Effects, counseling, breakthroughs in practice, and practicing without expectations.
• smithie reports that he is taking time to sort things out before resuming practice. Jack notes that this is right on Protocol.
• newbie Marq questions about the spiritual side of the practice. Jack responds that is no spiritual requirement but the practice can help open physical and emotional responsiveness.
• Marq describes some initial Echo Effects but is disappointed that he has not had a more profound experience. Jack responds that the feeling of disappointment is a trap that can block progress. He suggests paying attention to what is happening without expectations.
• Marty reports he is engaging in counseling. Jack congratulates him as this is also right on Protocol to deal with emotional issues that come up during practice.
• hlaser99 reports new kinds of Echo Effects emerging and feels he is on the the verge of a major breakthrough after going through a quiet period. Jack notes that is often the case that breakthroughs occur when they are least expected.
• Jack offers Marty some tips about positive vs negative self talk and suggests allowing the responses to appear with expectations.

Session Start: Sat Jan 13 12:02:30 2007
Jack> Hi Marq!
Marq> Hi Jack.
Jack> Happy New Year!
Marq> Happy new year to you too.
Marq> Hi Smithie.
Smithie> Hello everyone!
Jack> SMITHEEEEEEEEEE!!!
Jack> A very warm welcome back, and Happy New Year!
Jack> Smithie and Marq, how about you introduce yourselves to each other and our readers, so they can get to know you a little better.
Jack> Nothing to reveal specific identity of course, and all sharing is voluntary.
Smithie> Thank you, Jack, but I'm just dropping in to say hello. I have an assignment I must finish before the end of the weekend and I cannot stay for long.
Jack> Ok, Smithie, thanks very much for the heads up on that. YOU have the Talking Stick. How may we help you today?
Smithie> Actually, I have nothing to ask today!!!
Jack> (good luck on the assignment, Smithie!)
Marq> Well, um... I'm a gay male who recently purchased "Multiple Male Orgasm: Step-by-Step".
Jack> Thanks Marq, and WELCOME!
Marq> Thank you.
Jack> Any comments or just stopping by, Smithie? How is practice?
Jack> Or maybe Marq has a question that you may be able to speak to.
Marq> I also tend to be a bit shy.
Marq> And my practice is quite in it's initial phase.
Jack> Welcome to the club! :-)
Jack> That's why I encourage the use of pseudonyms here, and to not reveal any specific personal info that would identify you.
Smithie> I'm a heterosexual married family man who started in the summer. Last November I realized I was letting my head drive me. So I stopped, listened to my body and had to accept that for the present I had to sort out other things before starting to practice again.
Jack> Yeah that's right on Protocol Smithie!
Marq> Hi Marty.
Jack> Welcome Marty! Smithie's in for just a moment so we've passed him the Talking Stick first.
Marty> Hello all an happy new year
Marty> np
Smithie> So, as I said, I'm just dropping by to say hello. I'll continue working on my PC and drop in for a few minutes now and again so see how things are going.
Jack> Smithie, Gmck13 just made a post describing a similar pattern. Rest assured that taking such a break from time to time, I consider to be right on Protocol!
Jack> That's great Smithie. Thanks very much for keeping touch! Good luck with your assignment.
Smithie> Thanks. I'll go back to work now.
Jack> Ok, LOL!
Jack> Marq, for Marty's benefit, would you pls reiterate your intro statement, and then Marty,
Marq> oh... of course...
Jack> would you pls give us a brief intro, without of course sharing anything that would actually identify you publicly.
Jack> Thanks!
Marq> I'm a gay male who recently purchased "Multiple Male Orgasm Step-by-Step" I tend to be shy. And my practice is quite in it's initial phase.
Jack> Would you share your approx age? Also what drew you to this practice at this time?
Marq> About a quarter-century old.
Marq> Drawn initially by the promise of pleasure, but also interested in the spiritual side.
Marty> single male 29 straight and I heard about KSMO maybe 8 months ago but found difficulties almost straightaway
Jack> Thanks to both of you! Welcome hlaser99!
Jack> That's excellent on both counts Marq!
hlaser99> Hi!
Marty> how ya hlaser
Marq> HI hlaser99
hlaser99> OK!
Marty> yes indeed Marq I had been reading about tantric sex techniques and found this
hlaser99> Yo!
Jack> Although we promote no specific spiritual agenda here, we acknowledge and support people's identifying the often significant spiritual impact this practice may have, regardless of one's specific beliefs.
Jack> Ok, is anybody here under short-term time pressure today? I want to make sure we have plenty of time for everyone to share and ask.
Marty> on jacks advice I sought help of counselor and work is ongoing
Marq> I'm not certain yet if I can reconcile my beliefs with this practice, but I haven't ruled it out yet.
Marty> actually I gtg and see to my bread just for a minute right now brb
Jack> CONGRATULATIONS MARTY! That is right on Protocol as we say. This practice gives you the opportunity to clear the emotional wounds, etc. that want that healing.
Marty> yes I found some anger but I will brb one min just
Jack> Marq, the primary belief is belief in yourself.
Jack> Sure Marty.
Marq> the I Am
Jack> There is no specific spiritual belief that is a requirement to be here, or to learn this practice. My hope is that whatever
Jack> your spiritual orientation may be, that this practice will help you open up your physical responsiveness and your emotions (aka "Heart")
Marq> I understand that first part.
Jack> to get more from your life, and perhaps also from your chosen spiritual practice and beliefs.
Marq> A deeper awareness of my emotions would certainly be in tune with my religion.
Jack> Great! :-)
Jack> What questions or concerns do you have about practice thus far?
Marq> And I believe that a physical responsiveness would serve to amplify such an awareness.
Marq> Questions... I have a few...
Jack> Yeah I share that belief - but I don't require everyone to! :-)
Marq> I was struck by the word "rolling".
Jack> Ok, you have the Talking Stick. Ask away!
Jack> Yes?
Marq> It's not a word that I use to describe sounds.
Jack> Frankly at this point, I wouldn't be to concerned about how things are labelled. :-)
Marq> Altho', as I attempted to mimic the Key Sound, I noticed a sort of rolling down my torso.
Jack> There ya go.
Jack> Simple as that.
Marq> That helps my confidence a bit.
Marq> I tend to get discouraged easily.
Jack> GREAT! The Key Sound, when articulated correctly, provides a HIGHLY EFFECTIVE ALTERNATIVE to using more and more stimulation to try to reach orgasm.
Marq> And I am unfortunately not one of those people who had a profound experience upon his first practice.
Jack> By replacing that continuous or near-continuous pattern of stimulation (and some other things like shallow-rapid breathing, etc.) then
Jack> the purely energetic orgasmic or blissful rushes can occur, without your having to worry about ejaculation or having to intentionally delay it.
Marty> don't worry Marq
Marq> Altho', encouragingly, I did feel some of the same sensations that I've felt during meditation.
Jack> BTW, my GREAT! was about your confidence being helped, not about your getting discouraged easily!!! :-)
Marq> I figured as much.
Marq> With KS, I seemed to get a giggly feeling faster than I do with meditation.
Marq> I did feel some rising energy in my first session, but not the second.
Jack> Marq, the initial response you report about disappointment re: not having a profound experience right off the bat IS ACTUALLY THE MOST COMMON COGNITIVE PATTERN (TRAP) IN THE BEGINNING.
Marq> That was also encouraging.
Marq> I wasn't disappointed.
Jack> WHAT responses you will get and when is NOT predictable!
Marq> I didn't expect it immediately.
Jack> Great!
Marty> re expectation - a trap I jump into all the time
Jack> Rather than "expecting" at any time, replace expectation with OPEN ATTENTION - just NOTING
Jack> HOW your subtle body is beginning to GUIDE you.
Marq> That is extremely similar to the teachings of my religion.
Marq> Wow.
Jack> :-)
Marty> and
Jack> Now THERE was a little rush! eh?
Marq> huh?
Marty> similar to what my counselor was trying to tell me
Marty> listen to the body
Marq> aye
Marty> I keep thinking
Marty> analyzing
Marty> trying to do
Marty> or figure out
Marty> or create an effect
Marty> rather than let be
Marty> and accept
Marq> I tended to do that when I first set out on my spiritual journey...
Jack> Beginner's Mind!
Marq> I found that everything in life goes better if it is accepted as is.
Marq> Perhaps I'm drifting off topic... I do that quite a bit.
Jack> Relaaaaxxx, Marq, you're among friends here. :-)
Marty> I also tend to blame everyone else for my difficulties
Marq> thanks for the reassurance.
Jack> You're very welcome, Marq!
Jack> Marty that's a very powerful awareness!
Marty> pleasure can come isn't that right Jack?
Marty> if it is accepted
Jack> Marty, with this practice, the rushes often arrive when you least expect them.
Marty> yes
Jack> That is one the MOST COMMON THEMES in the reports you'll read at this site.
Jack> It's part of letting go of cognitive control of the process.
Marty> an I suppose I would be blaming myself for doing something that hinders the process
Jack> That is precisely the act that MAKES ROOM for these subtle responses to BLOSSOM further.
Marty> etc and still remain in my mind
Marty> yup I hear ya
Marq> That also sounds quite a bit like my religion.
Jack> The goal there of course is to allow your mind to quiet and calm, and turn your attention to
Marty> I have great struggle with this concept
Jack> how these subtle Echo Effects are beginning to GUIDE YOU FROM WITHIN.
Marty> I am so full of smart clever an wise thoughts an ideas - but I don't listen to my body
Marq> That was me 3 years ago!
Jack> Marty, by struggling with a "concept" you may still be trying to hang on to control of the process, it seems. NO BLAME there, I just invite your understanding of that, AND that it is VERY common! No Blame. Perseverance Furthers.
Jack> Marty: Here's a little experiment for you, are you game?
Marty> persevere
Marty> go ahead
Marty> sure
Jack> On the next line: right the following phrase (again), take a breath, and notice how you FEEL.
Jack> "I don't listen to my body."
Marty> I don't listen to my body
Jack> Now please type: "Until now I haven't been listening to my body.
Jack> "
Jack> Take a breath, and notice how you feel.
Marty> laghin al ready -
Marty> until now I have not been listening to my body
Marty> yawns
Jack> Laughing OFTEN accompanies enlightenment. LOL ;-)
Marq> AGREED!
Marty> last Fri
Jack> Yawning is a wonderful spontaneous breath!
Marty> oh yes yeasterrday
Marty> I went to see counselor
Marty> and
Jack> Nice msg from your subcs about Friday - it had YEAST in it. GROWTH!
Marty> I lay down and as
Marty> funny
Marty> u r sharp
Jack> :-)
Marty> well I breathed an relaxed
Jack> and then?
Marty> and after few mins just started laughing
Jack> YAY Laughingasms!
Marty> this had happened before with her
Marty> so I knew to relax an go with it
Marty> even so I notice I hold myself back
Jack> WAY TO READ YOUR EMOTIONAL SIGNALS!
Marty> yes it just comes
Marty> spontaneous w
Marty> with no reason
Marq> About a year ago, I experienced a period of 40 days in which I felt no discontentment, just this continuous bliss at living my life the way it is. Laughter seemed to occur where anger, pain, and other unpleasantness once did. Then that 40 day period ended.
Marty> hmmm
Marty> tide comes an goes
Marq> sort of annual tide in my case.
Jack> Marq, understand that emotions like that are CYCLICAL just as the Echo Effects (and most biological systems) are cyclical.
Marq> hm
Marty> biological = astrological all life systems are cyclical I would add
Jack> Yes I agree. How about we catch our breath here and check in with hlaser99 to get his comments on what we have been discussing?
Marty> sure
Marq> The rhythm of the planet has had millions of years to imprint itself in our genes.
Marq> ok
Jack> TRUST THAT FACT, Marq!
hlaser99> Trying to wake me up eh?
Marty> lol
hlaser99> What do you want to know?
Jack> Rise and SHINE!
Marq>
hlaser99> Had a dry spell!
[Marq:#Multiple_orgasm_how IMAGE] EMOTIONS/smile.gif or rather
Marty> no juicyness??
hlaser99> for a few weeks...
hlaser99> No FBMOs.
Marty> eh?? whats that one? I could speculate but...
Marty> no magic?
hlaser99> YOu said Cycles ?
hlaser99> Full Blown Multiple Orgasms...
Jack> [BTW, for more background and comments from hlaser, check out: http://www.multiples.com/orgasmwiki/User:Hlaser and http://www.multiples.com/orgasmwiki/User_talk:Hlaser]
Marq> I was one word off.
Jack> aka Full Body Multiple Orgasms.
Marty> FBMO = freaky big mad orgasm???
Marty> lol ok thx
Jack> Yeah ALL that too, Marty!
Marq> Jack just gave that my guess was
Marty> are you disappointed hlaser
hlaser99> Any way . . . they are coming back now!
Marq> yay
Jack> Marty, there's your answer.
hlaser99> They are different now?
Jack> That was a question?
Jack> or: "They are different now."
hlaser99> No a statement..
Jack> Ah ok. That ? was confusing. Thanks.
Jack> How are they different?
hlaser99> I am now having more of them at different hours day and nite, but they are less intense!
Jack> And what do you make of that?
hlaser99> I feel that something is changing.
Jack> In my view, THAT is a VERY EXCELLENT EXAMPLE of
Jack> how to FRAME the experience.
hlaser99> I am hoping it is a new plateau ...
Marty> interesting
Jack> That is, instead of feeling disappointed or frustrated or whatever, hlaser framed it as "hmmm something might be changing here."
hlaser99> It started a week or so ago...
Jack> Happy New Year!
Jack> :-)
Marty> lol
hlaser99> right!
Jack> What else did you notice about the new kinds of Echo Effects beginning to emerge?
hlaser99> I feel it is growing in strength and I will have a major break thru!
Jack> Different areas of your body, or the same as before?
Jack> Prolly once you LET GO of EXPECTING the major breakthru! LOL.
hlaser99> I was awakened at 4 a.m. with a vibration in my prostate...
Jack> Beats the clock radio imho!
Marty> an eruption - growing seeds trying to emerge in spring etc
hlaser99> week ago!
Marty> funny
hlaser99> I listened and didn't move
Jack> Congratulations hlaser - that's great that the Echo Effects are continuing to manifest and evolve.
Marty> good instinct
hlaser99> Now they are Morning noon and night.
Jack> Yeah I agree, and Marty, I really applaud your noticing that!
Marty> wow you seem amazed
Marty> an puzzled or is that right hlaser?
hlaser99> I see everything as an upward thing
Marty> positive outlook indeed
Jack> Positive outlook and WITHOUT specific expectations of what or when!
hlaser99> Now I am waiting for whatever in a new level, I am not familiar with.
Jack> hlaser's story is yet ANOTHER EXAMPLE of how the Echo Effects often manifest - especially in NEW FORMS - when you LEAST EXPECT THEM.
Marty> just an idea of more to come and interests as to what may lay ahead
hlaser99> I have temporarily stopped Aneros completely...
Jack> ALSO PLEASE NOTICE that JUST BEFORE THESE NEW MANIFESTATIONS - hlaser reported that the Echo Effects response had been quieter for some days or weeks.
hlaser99> Don't want to mess with this new found power!
Marty> the way you describe it hlaser - it looks like you are a pioneer exploring a new countryside
hlaser99> 4 weeks
hlaser99> It never ends
Jack> RE: Not wanting to mess with the power - not trying to stage direct it - I AGREE! THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT ASPECT FOR US ALL TO UNDERSTAND!
hlaser99> the journey is endless!
Jack> NOTE that for hlaser things went quieter for a while, before this new manifestation. THAT IS THE MOST COMMON PATTERN OF NEW EMERGENCE.
Marq> and hance the destination meaningless.
Marty> that would be individual I guess Jack - but I get your point no need to be disappointed with lulls
Marq> hence*
hlaser99> good to hear
Marty> right Marq
Jack> Marq and Marty, that's why it is VERY important not to micro-evaluate each session in direct comparison to the one(s) before and then feeling disappointed or frustrated because this session wasn't stronger or whatever.
hlaser99> First impulse is ALWAYS Oh God ! Have I lost my Friend!
Marty> we are here life is now that's only destination we need
Marq> Acknowledged.
Marty> right Jack
Marty> of course I will have to work on it
hlaser99> exactly!
Jack> Actually Marty LET GO OF WORKING on it. :-)
Marty> micro evaluation is my specialty
Marty> lol I know
Jack> The response does NOT need to be WORKED on.
Marty> lmao
Jack> It needs to be ALLOWED TO BLOSSOM.
Marty> I hear you
Marty> I am always called the messer
Marty> as in the one who over explores
Jack> When you plant a flower, it usually doesn't do well if you stand there continuously pouring water and fertilizer on it.
Marty> yup
Marty> I know
Marty> I was given a book for Christmas - how to grow great garlic
Marq> Would English be better off if it had a stronger vocative nominal case or even a declension?
Marty> mmmm I love it
Jack> Marty: Here's an oppty for you to make a cognitive shift: Change your self-description from "I am always called the messer." to: "IN THE PAST I have at times been called the messer."
Marty> sorry side tracking
Jack> that gives you some COGNITIVE BREATHING ROOM TO CHANGE.
Jack> And the quicksand of self-blame, self-shaming gets interrupted.
Jack> THAT may leave MORE ROOM for the Echo Effects.
Marq> I find awareness of tho't itself produces space.
Marty> in the past I have at times been called the messer
Marty> hmmm
Jack> Yeah! That "hmmm" is the EMOTIONAL CLUE!
Marty> I like space
Jack> SEE HOW POWERFUL (negative OR positive!) self-talk can be?
Marty> like space
Marty> thanks
Jack> You are VERY welcome!
Marq> I sometimes wonder about the positive part.
Jack> It's ok to wonder. :-)
Jack> I hope you also sometimes wonder about the negative part.
Marq> I know that negative self-talk is extremely distorting.
Jack> Yeah, often it's just an old pattern.
Marq> But I often find myself of the opinion that positive self-talk is just as distorting, if more desirable.
Jack> Awareness helps shift it, as does (as signalled by your "hmmm") rephrasing that stock pattern phrase.
Marty> I have blamed people for taking space - but it not given myself any to begin with
Jack> And now?
Marq> heh
hlaser99> A NEW DISCOVERY: Smile often...it chases the unwanted noise away, when you're trying to do a KSMO session!
Marty> cool hlaser
Jack> GOOD TIP Laser!
Jack> Thanks!
hlaser99> Simple stuff.
Marty> glad I came
hlaser99> Glad I'm coming!
Marty> lol
Jack> Me too! What other questions do you have, Marty?
Marty> as in glad I am here
Jack> Yep.
Marty> even better right
Jack> Yep.
Jack> :-)
Jack> Marty did you see my last ?
Marty> no Qs just good to be here now that I have realized that
Marty> don't think so but I read Lalys dream with the Tiger ...hmm wow
Jack> Do you happen to have the link reference for that, FBO the Readers?
Marq> I'm going to say farewell to you all. Likely, I will be back. Thanks for having me.
Marty> take care Marq
Jack> Well I sure hope you do return. We are here to help you learn this!
hlaser99> Bye!
Marty> by all means come again
Marq> thanks Marty, thanks Jack!
Jack> You're welcome Marq, just ALLOW the responses to appear
Marty> good luck
Jack> how and when they will, without being disappointed
Jack> when they don't appear when or how you expected them too.
Marq> Sounds like how my religion would teach it if my religion taught it.
Jack> That will give these subtle Echo Effects the LITERAL BREATHING ROOOM TO EMERGE.
Marq> Thanks.
Jack> cool!
Jack> Please keep in touch via the Forum too!
Marq> No promises, but I will keep that in mind.
Jack> Yes that's all we ask. It's NEVER an obligation.
Jack> Til we meet again, I hope.l
Marq> Until then, adieu.
Marty> bye
Jack> Au revoir.
hlaser99> I asked Laly how I could get a Spirit Guide like hers!
Marty> lol
Marty> you have one man
hlaser99> really?
Marty> one perfectly suited to you
Marty> that's my thoughts anyway
hlaser99> How to find it...
Marty> already with you
Jack> Stop looking for it.
Marty> no need to find just like KSMO
Marty> don't expect or control etc you know the story
Jack> I tend to agree!
Marty> allow the idea of an amazing loving being exist with you
hlaser99> I like cats
hlaser99> guess I need a pet...
Marty> and just let that life exist with yours
Marty> maybe you are rushing a bit
hlaser99> I AM making new friends withing me.
Marty> cool that's the way
Jack> Yeah I agree!
Jack> Certainly A way! :-)
Marty> sure
hlaser99> We party together!
hlaser99> Seriously, I am trying to love my inner self and well as outer...
Marty> ok Jack, hlaser, I think I need to pull back now to my room
Marty> sounds good ...trying u say?
Jack> B4 you go, Marty - are there any other questions about practice that you have at this time?
Marty> supper time beckons here - I hope to catch up in 2 weeks or so
Jack> Ok. Meanwhile, feel free to post to the Forum and we'll respond there. Bon appetit!
Marty> no Q's thanks I think I am felt a longing to try KS tho
hlaser99> Later, Marty!
Marty> so I may give it a go
Marty> Thanks guys
Marty> bye 4 now Jack & hlaser
Jack> Take your sweet time. That's how it's best! :-)
hlaser99> Take care!
Marty> I will thx bye now
Jack> Bye for now, Marty!
hlaser99> I am on the way to a break thru...All the signs are here!
Jack> I hear ya re: the breakthrough. I think a possible risk at this point is all of that expectation. It's a paradox, I know - but remember
hlaser99> just going on past experiences.
Jack> Andi's great analogy - you mustn't chase the fawn - but rather be patient and learn to let it come to you and eat out of your hand. I would just add that the last few moments before it's arrival can be the most delicate re: not frightening it away. :-)
hlaser99> I believe I am going up always, even if I go down for awhile!
Jack> That's great about past experiences. For sure, you are noting new changes - that's very exciting! Congratulations!
Jack> Show up for practice 2 or 3 times a week - and leave lots of open time for those Echoes to appear - as you have noted - sometimes even at 4 am!
hlaser99> tHANKS
hlaser99> Can't help get a little happy!
Jack> Re: up always. I agree, hlaser. The process is cyclical, it does have its ups and downs and quiet times - yet the BASELINE of the cycles continue to rise.
Jack> ABSOLUTELY! You definitely have cause for celebration!
hlaser99> the base line continues to rise!
hlaser99> that's it!
Jack> Yeah that's certainly my experience of you!
hlaser99> Base line rises and it is expanding its hours of activity!
Jack> Exactly... that is the FURTHER OPENING and AWAKENING of the SPONTANEOUS MULTIORGASMIC RESPONSE.
Jack> I really resonate to your spontaneous use of the term "expanding" to describe what's happening to you.
hlaser99> Also, it gets easier to get the Echos and keep them...
Jack> Yeah! Although there may be specific sessions where that may not be the case, over all it is very likely the trend.
hlaser99> Exactly! Expanding the Base of operations!
Jack> That's the cycles within a rising baseline.
Jack> Yes indeed!
hlaser99> But how long is a cycle?
Jack> Do you really expect a definitive answer to that question?
hlaser99> no
hlaser99> how infinite is space?
Jack> It's as long as that particular one happens to be! We are talking about a LIVING - PROCESS - here, so as all living things, it's pretty much never exactly the same.
Jack> re: your space question: I'd say: Infinite Enough!
Jack> :-)
hlaser99> I love to read Pan's posts...it gives me a higher target to shoot for!
hlaser99> Or wait for...
Jack> Pan's posts are indeed very inspiring, ARTICULATE, and motivating!
hlaser99> Any way, I am doing fantastic!
Jack> YES I AGREE!!!
Jack> RELAX and ENJOY THE RIDE!
hlaser99> I think he needs a column.
hlaser99> allot of work tho...
Jack> Fret not about the next session, just enjoy where you are with the process, in this moment. And in THIS one, and in **THIS** one... you get the idea! :-)
Jack> Pan has a lot of great writing on the web, and not just here. He is indeed a Renaissance Man.
hlaser99> I am havin' more fun than a box of puppies!
Jack> Woo WHOOOO!!!
Jack> Are there any other issues you'd like to address today?
hlaser99> I guess I am thru for today...
hlaser99> Just having a good life here!
Jack> That's wonderful news, hlaser99!
Jack> Wonder-full.
Jack> :-)
hlaser99> Time to cook dinner, I guess.
hlaser99> See ya later!
Jack> You too! Thanks for all of your contributions to the wiki as well!
Jack> I hope you have an enjoyable week. Re: dinner... yep... time to Chop Wood, Carry Water. :-)
hlaser99> nuke veggies!
Jack> Talk with you later, hlaser!
hlaser99> Bye!
Jack> Bye!
Session Close: Sat Jan 13 13:47:40 2007