Session of Sat Dec 09 Continued

Jack> ok - Who'd like to go next, Zeitgeist or dman?
stoki> white clouds and angel wings
dman> Go ahead, Z.
Jack> And thank you BOTH for your patience!
zeitgeist> TY dman...
dman> No problem
zeitgeist> for those who don't know...
zeitgeist> I'm a man, 48, from the UK
zeitgeist> I've been practising for about 10 months now..
zeitgeist> and at a keystone moment of KSMO
zeitgeist> having experienced FULL BODY sexual feelings.
zeitgeist> I get Echo feelings and other Effects on the off days...
zeitgeist> I'd like to pick up on what lava put so eloquently
zeitgeist> at this level of practice, one gets to experiment with what one's
body can do
zeitgeist> and get to know those zones that are usually overlooked by most
men
Jack> Hey Drew, Welcome! Z has the Talking Stick, fyi.
Drew> Thanks Jack... Hi everyone.
zeitgeist> I've noticed an increase of awareness of erogenous zones
zeitgeist> hi drew :-)
dman> Hi drew.
zeitgeist> that I hadn't previously noticed.
Jack> [Drew = 9 year veteran of this practice! ]
Jack> That's great to hear Z!
Jack> What do you mean by an increase of awareness?
zeitgeist> We men tend to grab one place...
zeitgeist> but the increasing sexual energy in this practice...
zeitgeist> means that the whole body becomes more sensitive...
zeitgeist> and that previously insensitive areas... become sensitive.
zeitgeist> for example:
zeitgeist> there is an area on the side of my buttocks that is particularly
sensitive
zeitgeist> that, to my knowledge was not particularly sensitive before...
zeitgeist> PARTICULARLY as
zeitgeist> the build up of sexual energy TAKES TIME...
zeitgeist> not just 3 minutes ;-)
zeitgeist> Of course I am
zeitgeist> carrying out more field work...
Jack> Good lad!
Lava> quality assurance? :-)
zeitgeist> to find other areas that are sensitive... but it is important to say
zeitgeist> haha
zeitgeist> that its worth checking out any other area apart from THAT one!
Jack> Yes it IS important to say haha!
zeitgeist> AND
zeitgeist> it works well with any partner, as Lava said, its a matter of
communication...
stoki> I just realized why laughter is so relaxing
zeitgeist> to find out those areas of one's self and ones partner through
explorations and dialogue.
stoki> it is a release of energy through sound
zeitgeist> ha!
stoki> same thing we're doing
Jack> Yes and stay tuned for laughingasms - they have been known to
occur as a result of this practice. Just like heartgasms !
zeitgeist> I guess that one's body becomes more sensitive through this
process of examination, exploration and PRACTICE
zeitgeist> .
Lava> Your sexuality is such an intrinsic part of you, if you can't be open
with your partner, then I would question the relationship... After all
"relationship" means the act of relating... If you're not communicating, you're
not relating to each other.
zeitgeist> totally agree
zeitgeist> .
Jack> I agree totally, Z! And
Jack> remember also that a cornerstone dialogue is the one your conscious
self has with the Echo Effects as you let them - using THEIR language - guide
you and teach you how to AWAKEN FURTHER.
zeitgeist> yeah, its a sort of feedback system
Lava> surrender...
zeitgeist> into it...
Lava> How does an Alpha surrender, Jack? {:-)
Jack> By surrendering FIRST!
Lava> (darn it, I knew it!)
Drew> LMAO
Jack> ;-)
zeitgeist> ??
zeitgeist> its that division by a common language thing isn't it? ;-)
Lava> HAHA, Z
Lava> Alpha personality...
zeitgeist> got it!
zeitgeist> not gamma?
Lava> :-)
zeitgeist> k
Jack> I would just interject, Lava, that if you feel you can't be open with
your partner, then before questioning the relationship itself, get some
properly trained and supervised professional help TOGETHER to get more
RELATIONSHIP COMMUNICATION TOOLS.
Jack> The "you" in that sentence was a generic you as in one, not you, Lava.
:-)
Lava> Yep, yep.
Jack> Hey Z, please say more about the Feedback System that gets
energized.
zeitgeist> ok...
Jack> Thanks!
zeitgeist> basically I found that
zeitgeist> if one follows the protocol with the Key Sound...
zeitgeist> the Echos transpire
zeitgeist> focusing on those Echos with the continued use of the Key
Sound...
zeitgeist> is generative...
zeitgeist> which means that each part acts in a loop...
Jack> Would you say more about how Echoes transpire ?
zeitgeist> thinking...
zeitgeist> that Key Sound awakens the response
zeitgeist> that is ALREADY THERE
zeitgeist> there
Jack> YES.
Jack> That's my experience as well.
zeitgeist> that the effects, tingling, fizzing that
zeitgeist> comes from the use of the Key Sound...
zeitgeist> grow with the use of the Key Sound
zeitgeist> so the more... the more...
Jack> RE: Already there. That's why I refer to our multiorgasmic ability as
being INNATE and that the Key Sound Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol helps
you AWAKEN that response.
zeitgeist> all it needs is waking up!
zeitgeist> for me it was gently done _over time_
zeitgeist> not in McDouble quick time
zeitgeist> each session improved generally the quality of the Echoes
zeitgeist> until now those Echoes have turned into sexual feelings
zeitgeist> I growed them!
Jack> That's why I sometimes talk about how to make waves in a tub of
water. If you gently give the water a little push AND THEN PAUSE a little wave
will go out to the edge and come back. WHEN YOU TIME IT RIGHT, the next
LITTLE push on the wave as it heads out again, AMPLIFIES it.
Lava> Jack, is this like a collective unconscious thing? or like cellular
memory? The body is connected into energy like our conscious mind doesn't
notice or can't comprehend at first?
Jack> What's your hunch?
Lava> Energy can't be created or destroyed, only amplified or decreased...
brain waves, heart /pulse rhythms... sexual orgasms area all energy... the
universe. light and sound are all energy... so with KSMO, we're just tapping in
to the energy that we are and flows thru us already????
Lava> (don't know where that came from... didn't mean to get so Carl Sagan
on sex.)
Jack> LOL!
Jack> That was a very nice riff though!
zeitgeist> I think there is something in that every cell in our body wants
this...
zeitgeist> that energy release
Jack> Yeah! That was one of my Cornerstone Hypotheses when I first began
the quest to discover this.
Jack> And the ECHO EFFECTS are those cells ways of communicating
DIRECTLY with our conscious mind.
zeitgeist> Jack did you want that ol' flywheel hypothesis?
Lava> Well, if the potential for the FBO is already there, and it's the
conscious mind that blocks it, it must already exist in the subconscious self
which is intrinsically connected to the energy of the universe and the other
side... depending on personal beliefs.
Jack> Run it please.
Jack> (That was to Zeit re: flywheel)
zeitgeist> k, well that generative increase of the Key Sound and the Echo
Effects...
Jack> That definitely resonates for me, Lava.
zeitgeist> is like a flywheel...
zeitgeist> a little energy is pushed into it by say a hand....
Jack> The blocks are the emotional furballs that surface, saying "Heal ME!
> >I< want some too!"
zeitgeist> and once the dang thing is rolling
zeitgeist> there's a lot of energy circulating
zeitgeist> and only a little energy is needed to keep the flywheel rolling
with all that energy circulating INTERNALLY..
zeitgeist> from outside
Jack> Yeah!
zeitgeist> just like the Key Sound.
zeitgeist> circulating that energy throughout the body
zeitgeist> all that energy circulating
zeitgeist> fed by that little KS energy.
Lava> *a little energy* ... it takes more energy to accelerate than to stay at
the same speed... I guess speed isn't what's important but rather intensity?
Jack> That's the same energetic principle at work with that wave analogy I
was using, that when you time the next little push of that wave, THAT is what
builds the biggest waves the fastest! It's a LITTLE push (a GENTLE Key Sound)
AT THE RIGHT TIME.
Jack> Which do you prefer, Lava? Speed or intensity? And of course your
answer may vary depending on how you may feel on a particular day, I would
think.
Lava> intensity... speed can cause a rash. {:-)
zeitgeist> haha!
Jack> Always good to keep in mind!
Jack> No rash behavior, thanks.
zeitgeist> well spotted!
Lava> again, quality assurance... quality not quantity...
Jack> Ironically when you focus on quality you... get MORE.
Lava> which again nulls the myth of "number" of orgasms being more
important.
Jack> [Tssshh, Z!]
Lava> Z, is that energy circulating the loop you talked about? Like a coil?
Jack> Yeah I really agree with your numbers statement, Lava.
zeitgeist> VERY MUCH SO
Lava> a coil of energy?
zeitgeist> you've got me on home ground here!
Jack> Yeah I relate to it that way too! The coiled serpent!
zeitgeist> you remember a coil and a capacitor in a tuned circuit?
Lava> and then the orgasm is the coil springing into action, as it were?
Jack> The Cosmic Spring. The EverUpward Spiral Dance.
Lava> (thank you, I'm an artist, I need visuals occasionally. {:-)
Jack> Yeah Z. With a coil and a capacitor you can tune in the universe.
Jack> y/w Lava!
zeitgeist> That's me done I think....Its an no practice day but my state is
somewhere else...
Jack> How about we offer the Talking Stick to Dman and then to Drew?
zeitgeist> which is to be expected at this level..
Jack> Thanks VERY much Z!
zeitgeist> YW!
Jack> Ya doin' GREAT Brother!
Lava> Bye, Z!
zeitgeist> :-) and TY LAVA for your wise words...
dman> Bye Z!
Lava> Awww, shucks...
Jack> Sweet Dreams!
zeitgeist> bye...before this server shuts this side of the wormhole...
Jack> Close the pod door, Hal.
Jack> :-)
zeitgeist> Traum süss!
Jack> Cyberhugs to ya Zeit!
stoki> wait
zeitgeist> hugs 2 u JJ! qnd to qll1
stoki> just something so I won't forget
stoki> http://www.globalorgasm.org/
zeitgeist> hugs to all!
Jack> Yes we're still here, stoki, just saying ni' nite to Z.
Jack> Yeah! Would stoki or somebody please add that global orgasm info to
the Current Events in the Orgasm Wiki?
stoki> A global coalition for generation of sexual energy
stoki>
Jack> Since we around here don't chase orgasms, I'd just modify it and
invite people in our community to offer a KSMO practice on that day with the
intent of world peace. It was the primary reason I dedicated myself to this
teaching and put it on the web from the beginning.
Jack> GlobalEchoEffects!
Jack> :-)
zeitgeist> cool!
zeitgeist> Tschüss!
Jack> Ok... who would like to go next? Would that be dman or Sir Drew?
stoki> bye
Jack> Tschuss Zed!
Lava> Bye, Stoki!
dman> I'd like to go, if drew doesn't mind.
stoki> I'm saying bye to Z
stoki>
Jack> That ok, Drew?
Jack> Drew may be afk, in logging mode. He's a multi-tasker.
dman> Ah. Shall I start, then?
Jack> A real Mr. Multiples, that Drew! LOL. :-)
Jack> Yes please.
dman> Thanks in advance for your patience
dman> as I may cut out. My connection is bad
dman> I need a new router.
Jack> And thank YOU for YOURs D.
dman>
dman> I guess I'll introduce myself:
Jack> Your connection may work better when it sees some keystrokes from
you.
Jack> If you timeout we'll wait for you to come back.
dman> I'm a 27 year old single man in the San Francisco area.
dman> Thanks
Jack> You're most welcome, Brother!
dman> I've been practicing the Key Sound for about 2-3 weeks
dman> and I have a few questions about my practice:
dman> First, I told you a week or two ago, Jack, about my hands clenching
and lips pursing
dman> I've been following the Protocol more precisely
dman> ever since
dman> and I'm still getting some hand clenching
dman> and lip pursing
dman> but less, I think as a result or taking more breaths in between
dman> Key Sounds
dman> and by taking more relaxed
dman> breaths in between Key Sounds
dman> . Should I just continue to relax and expect that the clenching and
pursing will continue to subside?
Jack> Hard to predict. I'm not a physician. But speaking informally as a
layman, the fact that you changed something and noticed a change in result
seems promising.
dman> Good. I had a bit of headache after a prior session in which
dman> there was a lot of pursing and clenching
dman> and I looked at the forum and read that that's associated with
hyperoxia
dman> which makes sense because I was breathing so heavily
dman> .
Jack> I would suggest as an experiment that during practice, you keep
adding additional relaxing breaths between each use of the Key Sound
Jack> until there is no longer any clenching, etc.
Jack> It sounds like you might be doing an exaggerated kind of breathing.
Jack> That's not what the protocol calls for. The breathing
Jack> should be NATURAL. NO forcing. Please. Be GENTLE with yourself.
dman> Makes sense. I'll try it. Second question:
dman> Yes, I think I was
dman> .
dman> I'm learning
Jack> yes I know. :-)
Jack> That's why we are here.
Jack> You're learning - and you're TEACHING.
dman> To be gentle, that is. I've spent many years not being gentle with
myself.
Jack> Yeah, I hear you.
Jack> I am VERY glad you found this information.
dman> So am I!!!
Jack> :-)
dman> Second question: Am I likely to get more benefit from the practice if
I don't ejaculate on the days between practice?
Jack> Dman, this whole bizness is about GENTLE. There's no forcing as part
of the Protocol.
dman> I hear you.
Jack> Well I'd say re: on the days between practice - maybe some of both.
That is some days off altogether, other days off have some wet fun if you feel
like it. Let your own RESPONSES be your guide.
dman> I find that the "wet fun" is less and less satisfying
dman> It pales in comparison to the "dry fun" on practice days
Jack> Well stay tuned! As your practice continues,
Jack> you'll prolly discover more fun with wet fun too - just don't chase
after it! :-)
dman> I hear you. Wet days tend to be chasing days, while practice days
tend to be gentle days...
dman> Maybe wet days will eventually become gentle days too
Jack> There ya go. Good insight!
Jack> Gentle wet can be very hot. Give it a chance. Now that you're know
what you know.
dman> Will do
dman> Third question:
dman> I'm finding that it's more comfortable and I get more Echo Effects
dman> without vocalizing, just making the Key Sound without the sound
Jack> Basically rather than just trying to teach you a method here, which of
course IS part of it - I'm hoping to help you develop a new relationship with
yourself and you learn to ALLOW your deeper selves to communicate with
your conscious awareness.
dman> Yes, that makes sense.
dman> Regarding the Key Sound: I wonder if I'm missing something,
because when I make the sound, it feels strained, but when I make the
motion without the sound, it feels comfortable and freeing.
Jack> That's fine re: no sound Key Sound - that's working for you right now.
That's your guide. As all of your gateways continue to open, there may be a
time when you get signalled that a little Key Sound now and then can be a
good thing.
dman> Okay, thanks. Question 4:
Jack> There is NO SET PATTERN. That's the beauty of it. It's a WONDERFUL
ART FORM.
dman> I'm so used to set patterns, it's hard to let go, but it's liberating to
start trying
dman> Or not trying, rather
Jack> THERE ya GO!
Jack> That was a little mini-gasm of awareness!
dman> LOL
Lava> :-)
Jack> See how that came to you?
Jack> Just sort of pops in.
dman> Yep.
dman> Question 4: I find that the longer the session goes, the better it
feels, and it's very tempting to continue beyond the 20 minutes, but I'm
following the Protocol, so I'm not.
Jack> Welcome to the Club!
Jack> :-)
dman> So my question is, can I go beyond the 20 minutes if it feels good
and I'm not tired?
Jack> Allow yourself to go past the 20 sometimes too.
dman> Experiment?
Jack> Yeah, the thing about the 20 is that often after about that period of
time, a person can lapse into chasing mode then feel kinda empty.
dman> Ah, I've done that too.
Jack> So I really emphasize the 20 as a prudent guideline - generally. So...
test that boundary some and find out what's there for you.
dman> Will do. Question #5:
dman> Are you familiar with the writings of Ken Wilber?
Jack> Only a little. For me and the rest of those who will read this, how
about a quick summary?
dman> Well, he's a philosopher/spiritualist
dman> The reason it's relevant here is that he writes about levels
dman> of spiritual experience
dman> And I feel like the Key Sound practice
dman> is giving me access to higher levels than I normally access for
extended periods of time
dman> One level is the subtle
dman> The felt sensations of the inner body
dman> Which I started feeling more of using the Key Sound practice
dman> Then I found myself feeling the so-called witness
dman> The witness is a state in which you're watching your experience
dman> as if from a distance
dman> Instead of being the animal in the cage,
dman> as we normally are
dman> In witness consciousness, one is outside of the cage
dman> watching the animal within
dman> I've had experiences with witness consciousness
dman> ever since a meditation retreat I went on last summer
Lava> (astral projection?)
dman> I don't know that phrase, but there are others:
dman> Eckhart Tolle talks about presence
dman> or disidentification from the ego
dman> The Buddha talks about non-self
dman> Anyway, I found myself popping into witness consciousness
dman> in Key Sound practice
dman> and I also found that the surrender to the present-moment
experience
dman> is essential to the Key Sound practice
Jack> Yes indeed it is.
dman> and then, as the witness became more constant and the Echo Effects
increased
dman> I found myself experiencing what Wilber calls "One Taste"
dman> or spirit
dman> in which I'm not only not identified with the ego
dman> but not with the witness either
dman> so that all there is is pure experience, no me
dman> no you, no self, no object, no in, no out
dman> I've heard it said that we all get a glimpse
dman> of one taste in orgasm, however briefly
dman> what's amazing about this practice, is that it's more than just an
instant
dman> in fact, it lasted for a few minutes *after* I got up when I was done
with the practice
dman> it's funny
dman> this is not what I expected
dman> I expected intense sexual feelings, but
dman> not intense *spiritual* experiences.
dman> Does this resonate with others' experiences?
Jack> I hope you will share this story and raise this question in the Forum
as well. What you've shared here is all very important.
dman> Will do.
Jack> I'd like to know Drew's take on it, since other than me, he has the
most experience of anyone here.
Jack> I also want to hear from everyone else though about this too. It
sounds to me like you have already accessed quite an Opening!
dman> Indeed. I got much more than I bargained for
Jack> :-)
Jack> That's wonderful! I hope you'll help spread the word. :-)
Jack> It's still the Best Kept Secret on the Web.
dman> I've already started talking to my spiritual friends about the practice,
and they're getting interested.
Jack> Great! I'm happy to answer their questions.
Jack> And the Forum and the OrgasmWiki as well as the main website are
open to reading by the public.
Jack> Everything since 1995.
dman> Great. I'll let them know.
Jack> It's all online here.
Lava> It seems that Dman was already open to the experience because of
his exposure to philosophy/spirituality... he got on the fast-lane to FBO
enlightenment. {:-)
dman> Philosophy/spirituality helped, but meditation helped just as much.
Jack> Often that transcendant opening such as you describe - that melding
of ego with the All is preceeded by that Terror At the Gates phenomenon
we've discussed here.
dman> Yes, I also experienced terror at the gates.
stoki> I have a similar view on this whole thing
Lava> Hey, Laly!
Jack> The Terror is that exclamation by the ego of Oh My What's Gonna
Become of ME?!!!
Laly> hi ya lava!!
dman> I was afraid to surrender into the unknown, and still am, but I'm
finding that there're really nothing to fear.
stoki> It is just another way to ascend
stoki> to heighten your vibration
Jack> dman, just take it a little at a time and do NOT push yourself past
where you feel ok going.
Jack> Yes I agree, stoki.
Jack> w/b Laly!
Laly> thanks Jack HUGSS
Jack> stoki have you had a similar experience with this practice, or with
some other?
stoki> I have done a lot of research in the area of spirituality
Jack> I believe that moment of surrender to the All of it - whatever that All
is for you personally, is what is meant by Cosmic Orgasm. That's sure how it's
felt to me.
Jack> Just a complete meld with All That Is.
stoki> but the knowledge is mostly theoretical
dman> Yup.
Laly> so true jack.
Jack> There are some good maps there, though, stoki.
stoki> you need practical experience to grasp some of the concepts
mentioned here
Jack> As I'm sure you're well aware.
Jack> that line was re: good maps.
Jack> Say more about what you mean by practical experience.
stoki> yoga or KS practice
stoki> or meditation
stoki> multiple ways to the same goal
Jack> I agree. I think they all offer benefits that support this practice.
Lava> When people experience the Terror At the Gates, is it terror just from
this lifetime or do people relive past-life experiences as a means of
transcendance or acknowledgement of previous Karma/lessons to move
forward?
Laly> oh yes- I can attest to that.
Jack> Lava, how would you tell?
Lava> Um, from dreams I've had... past-life dreams...
Lava> and some dreams I've had recently...
Lava> *some
Jack> My hunch is that since it can feel like such a complete surrender - it
may be connected to our DNA-level memory.
Jack> sorry didn't mean to interrupt, pls continue.
Jack> What do you think?
Lava> I won't take up bandwidth here, but twice in two different dreams, I
completely surrendered to the Cosmic Higher Spirit and knew I was about to
ascend to join that energy...
Lava> sounds kookey to actually write it out...
Jack> You're in good company here. :-)
Lava> there was no pain, no hesitation... I let it wash over me
Laly> actually Lava, it doesn't to me
Jack> see?
Jack> That sounds really lovely, Lava. Were these dreams after you began
KSMO practice?
Jack> By that I mean after you first started working with the Protocol?
Lava> My last dream a week or so ago... I was on a volcano (I know, so
cheezy with the Lava tag)... But I knew we (my daughter and I were about to
be "swallowed" by the molten lava,... I grabbed my daughter's hand and said
"We're about to ascend...
Lava> I felt the lava catch my heel but there was no pain, no heat, just
energy wash over as as we ascended...
Laly> kewl.
Jack> Wow. That is VERY Big!
Lava> Like I said way back in this chat, I'm trying to deal with furballs
before I truly start KSMO practice...
Lava> But the volcano??? How cheezy, even by MY standards! {:-)
Jack> Why cheezy? Why not consistent or congruent ?
dman> Volcano seems like the perfect metaphor: It burns the ego, and lets
the spirit ascend.
Jack> Pele!
Laly> I like that dman!!
dman> Thanks
Lava> It is the second time I've had a dream... the last one, I was already
ascending up and over the trees and earth... then I remembered my daughter,
and short version: I fought the Cosmic All to stay here... even though the
other side felt fabulous! I literally landed in my bed with a thud... my ribs still
hurt the next day... Okay... I'm weird...
Jack> Yeah you're having some shamanic-level dreaming goin' on here.
Laly> weird??/ I THINK not - you are special Lava
Lava> I'm a fire spirit... Fire is the element that rules Spirituality and
Creativity... It took me a long time to become comfortable with being Fire... I
wanted to be Earth.
Jack> I agree, laly!
Jack> Volcano is a wonderful blend of fire and earth.
Lava> A friend told me that if I am earth, it's hot, molten earth... ie. Lava...
Jack> Seems like you got what you asked for.
Jack> Yeah, exactly.
Lava> Yep... the most powerful forces are those that are elements blended
together.
Jack> Which is the NEWEST Earth.
Lava> and the oldest!
dman> Form is emptiness, emptiness is form, as Wilber (and others say).
Jack> :-)
Lava> I'm gonna check this Wilber dude out. :-)
dman> He's great. The best spiritual writer, aside from Eckhart Tolle, I've
read.
Laly> ok , am crying once again- you all are so wonderful.
Jack> Some are Fire, some are Rain. :-)
dman>
Lava> Laly, I'm always amazed at your empathy...
Laly> aww shucks
Lava> no, really!
Lava> It's wonderful! {:-)
Jack> Laly, as an experiment, instead of saying aww shucks, say Thank you
and take a slow conscious breath to let it in. See what happens.
Laly> it is just one of the many areas in my life that KMSO has blessed
me with.
Laly> jack , k- just am crying so hard , cant see screen
Laly> Thank you lava :-)
Jack> It's always been in you - you took the initiative to use KSMO to help
you access it.
Jack> AttaGirl Laly!!!
Laly> if you all could only see me right now- blue energy all over
Lava> :-)
Jack> It's showing up on the satellite weather map!
Lava> I'm gonna Google Earth you! {:-)
Jack> LOL!
Jack> Seriously Laly, that's a little exercise you can practice from time to
time (not every time! give some slack) -
Laly> ok Jack , but you know how hard it is for me to accept
compliments
Laly> tho.
Jack> instead of reflexively responding with a self-deprecating aww shucks
etc. (We were taught it's polite to do so), use that Thank you PLUS A SLOW
CONSCIOUS BREATH with the intent to accept the compliment.
dman> I have a spiritual teacher who once said that thanking a person for a
compliment is giving them a gift, the gift of acceptance of their gift to you.
Laly> ok- altho any more compliments and my heart just may explode
Jack> Yep I do. Believe me. It's part of that survivor package. But we have
the opportunity to experience how good we can feel to let IN the compliment.
Laly> *just
Jack> Yeah dman.
Jack> My Mom said it was good manners. LOL.
Jack> I had a good Mom. :-)
dman> LOL
Laly> my hardest thing to accept, is allowing someone to help me
Laly> to let go.
Laly> both physically and emotionally.
dman> It ain't easy. That's for sure.
Jack> It's important to be learn to make good choice on whom you allow to
help you.
Jack> That can be a challenge for an abuse- or other trauma survivor.
Lava> yep
Jack> That's part of journey.
Jack> Our ADVENTURE.
Laly> well the past 10 months sure has been an education for me
Laly> KSMO and counseling wise, learning to integrate the 2.
Lava> do tell, Laly...
Jack> RE: The abuse and trauma. Look how all of that crap has nevertheless
brought US together HERE. Go figure. :-)
Laly> k, let me give u a lil background 1st lava
Lava> that is actually balance... in a weird Buddha teaching way...
Laly> when I was growing up, was the only girl
Laly> in my neighborhood
Laly> mom worked a lot, so I had no female role model
Laly> to turn to , to ask questions.
Laly> look to for guidance.
Laly> for a period of at least 5 years, was sexually abused my neighbor
Laly> and he would tell me- that is was my fault and no one would
believe any different
Laly> if I tried telling an adult.
Laly> he later did the same thing with his daughter, or tried to.
Laly> for many years after that, I got angry with myself FOR NOT telling
anyone sooner
Laly> and spared her that anguish.
Laly> that I went thru.
Laly> and later at age 16 was violently assaulted by my boyfriend at the
time
Laly> which sent me spiraling even further downward
Laly> to the point of almost committing suicide to end the nightmares I
had nightly
Laly> and since then have not dated
Laly> or trusted a man
Laly> UNTIL I met the wonderful Drew
Laly> chatted with him
Laly> and he in turn mentioned the KSMO site
Drew> < breathing in deeply!
Laly> (sorry Drew- HUGS)
Drew> Sorry?
Drew> < is lovin' it!
Laly> :-)
Laly> and with his kind support as well as Jack's too.
Lava> It's good that you are starting to trust again...
Laly> it's not easy, but am getting better
Lava> My story is similar.. though less violent...
Lava> I was molested for 3 years as a kid... but my molester was female...
so there was little physical pain, just fear if my parents found out... she led
me to think it was my fault...
Lava> I was raised Catholic, so from an early age we were taught that
homosexuals were automatically going to Hell... which I couldn't understand
how I was going to Hell at age 11 when I was a straight A student.
Laly> uh huh... can relate to that.
Lava> It was only later I realized that the Church harped on homosexuals,
but never said anything about pedophiles... if the Church had preached the
dangers of pedophiles, the Church would have had to deal with its priests...
Lava> okay... no more on that. {:-)
Laly> yeah , I read that news and I cry
Lava> I was date-raped at 21... and at that point, didn't trust men, and
wasn't sure if I was a lesbian... I was just confused...
Laly> yeah can really relate to the confusion part
Lava> I had had enough of "therapy" as a teenager... my mother dragged
my sister and me to every therapist in the area... as soon as they saw through
her religious zealot/recreational martyrdom, they always sided with us kids,
and we went on to the next therapist... (sorry, Jack)...
Jack> ? re: apology ?
Laly> no sorry need lava
Lava> I don't know how many times I took that 300 question test, where
they ask you the same two questions 150 different ways.
Laly> *needed
Lava> You had asked earlier if I'd gone to therapy... and the answer is
nope...not since I was a teenager... I've figured a lot out on my own... reading
philosophy and "alternative" spirituality was the treatment I took. {:-)
Lava> Finding my Irish spirituality was the key to me becoming whole.
Laly> I did the same thing too lava, but I soon recognized that I was at
point that I needed professional help to get the rest of the way- to fully heal.
Jack> That can certainly help. I also want to give you lots of support for
finding a _competent_ professionally trained healer who can genuinely help
you. Laly has a story about what THAT can take, too.
Lava> AND realizing that the problem was not me , but the molester, the
rapist, the Church, and even my mother (for wanting to make me the villain
and sending me to priests and nuns to be "fixed".)
Laly> oh yeah Jack, I do.
Jack> What a _good_ pro can do is help give you tools for healing the
_effects_ of their crime.
Jack> Pls tell her if ok.
Lava> Correction: I "accidentally" saw a therapist... after Katrina... some
psychologists from Harvard and the Manhattan Trauma Institute came down
and one of them said was "hyper vigilant"...
Laly> really??
Jack> How helpful.
Jack> Blow down his house and see if he gets a little vigilant.
Lava> I am talking terms with her... she's great... Actually, I interviewed her
for a documentary I'm making about Katrina... and she let me cry and blubber
whenever I needed to...
Laly> kewl!!!
Laly> she gets a virtual hug from me for that!!!
Jack> Way to take the opportunity!
Lava> I was shocked that I blubbered as much as I did with her or since the
big K hit...
Lava> She was WONDERFUL! (Buddhist, you know...)
Lava> {:-)
Jack> Wow.
dman> I'm sorry to interrupt this really important conversation. Thank you,
Lava and Laly, for your openness in sharing your very personal stories. And
thank you, Jack, for answering all of my questions, as usual.
dman> I've got to run.
Lava> Dman, you are great! Your experiences sound amazing!
Laly> HUGS dman- take care
Jack> Thanks for all you've shared today dman!!!
dman> My pleasure. Good talking to you all. Take care!
Jack> I hope you'll keep in touch via the Forum, and perchance, the wiki.
dman> I'll try
Jack> Just whenever the spirit might move ye.
Jack> It's good to hear from you.
dman> It's great chatting, it's great to have so much support on this path.
Jack> You are very welcome here.
dman> Thanks. Bye!
Laly> bye dman!
stoki> bye dman
Laly> ok- back to the ? about my seeking a good counselor.
Jack> Emphasis on good - competent!
Laly> jack gave me the ASSECT weblink
Jack> And authentically caring.
Jack> You deserve no less.
Jack> Pls continue Laly. :-)
Laly> yeah - that too
Laly> and since I don't drive
Jack> yet?
Jack> :-)
Laly> yet - yeah, planning on temp permit in the spring
Jack> All RIGHT!!!!
Laly> *crosses fingers and prays
Jack> And turn around 3 times. :-)
Jack> Way to go!
Jack> Pls continue...
Laly> anyway, all the sexual abuse counselors in my area were all men
Laly> I to be honest, it set of MAJOR fur-balls
Jack> OPTIONALLY there COULD be a time when some work with a
competent male counselor could be productive.
Laly> I balked at the thought or trying to share something so intimate
with a strange man
Jack> Good call.
Laly> I feel that now Jack, be then it was OOO sh...
Jack> Exactly - that's why I said maybe later. I think it could be a good thing
- but later... :-)
Laly> the names u gave me- well were too far for me to get too
Laly> so I let the matter drop
Laly> for months after that
Laly> and cried cause I DID want to see one
Laly> frustrated and yet in fear of having the courage to make that 1st
important call.
Laly> in all this, I kept in contact with Drew
Laly> relaying my fears, anxiety
Laly> *apusing to wipe tears away
Laly> Pausing - sorry
Lava> :-)
Laly> Drew gave me a name of a woman he thought was good
Laly> and thought the world of
Drew> < doesn't 'think'... He KNOWS! :P
Laly> :-)
Laly> anyway, I got her number , called
Laly> and inside was literally trembling with fear
Laly> trying to relay why I was calling
Laly> and got a yes she could definitely help me with that.
Laly> and a small weight lifted off me at that point
Laly> but then it was, since I don't drive, how do I get up to see her
Laly> finding a hotel to stay in
Laly> blah, blah
Laly> things that kept me from making that 1st appointment
Laly> Thankfully Drew was there- and asking WHAT is it that is KEEPING
you from seeing **
Lava> good man!
Jack> Sir Drew!
Jack> Said with all sincerity.
Drew> < takes a bow.
Jack> :-)
Laly> to that point, no one has ever cared enough about me to be that
'caring'
Laly> was a very humbling and honoring feeling at same time.
Laly> anyhow- arrangements were made
Laly> and I , despite my fear still, made my appointment with **
Laly> the best decision I ever made
Laly> well one of the best
Jack> Yeah, you're on a roll!
Drew> (That WARMS my heart!)
Laly> I have seen ** a total of 4 times now
Laly> (grins happily at drew)
Laly> and barring weather next month, will go up again
Laly> as Drew has said, ** just 'knows' things
Laly> I am finding that to be true
Drew> Kinda spooky, eh?
Lava> I say this with all sincerity and from personal experience: Fear is the
abuser's domination over you. Even if you never see or talk with the abuser
again, allowing the pain and the fear is allowing the abuse to happen all over
again... It's like a broken record player that skips and plays the same bit of
song over and over again... We have to make the choice to move past that
"skip" and move from "victim" to "survivor"... You're doing the right things, Laly!!!
Laly> thanks lava
Laly> I owe so much of this to Drew and Jack too
Lava> Sir Jack
Laly> for supporting me in this
Jack> < likewise, a bow. <;-)
Drew> :-)
Laly> I have mentioned in one of my posts
Laly> that the Lord Almighty sent 3 3 very special Angels
Laly> just one 3
Laly> lol.
Jack> are you sure?
Drew> Yet!
Laly> yeah
Lava> 33 is a powerful master number. {:-)
Laly> am sure there will be more jack
Jack> You typed 3 3 so I suspect there's 3 your CONSCIOUS mind hasn't
noticed yet.
Jack> re: more - I'm sure too, Laly.
Laly> no- my 3 key got stuck was all
Lava> nope, not all Laly...
Jack> Yeah sure, THAT was all.
Jack> No magic HERE.
Drew> LMAO
Laly> k - will keep mum on that note
Jack> Why would SIX angels hang around you?
Jack> You can WONDER...
Laly> because I am special
Laly> loved
Laly> cared for
Laly> *openly weeping now
Jack> yep, all of the Above, as they say.
Lava> that's what I was thinking... love... 33 reduces to 6 which is the Love/
Union card in the tarot...
Laly> and am beginning to wonder if one of my angel spirits may be
animal related
Jack> Thanks Lava, that's good to know.
Lava> So, here's wishing you lots of love to you as you reintegrate yourself
with your therapy.
Laly> thanks
Lava> what animal? any clues?
Laly> I have been having meditative dreams - a spiritual connection
with a tiger
Lava> What year were you born (if you want to answer)...
Drew> Ahem!
Laly> 1970
Laly> yes drew??
Drew> Just clearing my throat.
Laly> ok.
Laly> he has lain in my lap a few times
Lava> sorry... I was looking up the Chinese zodiac... Not sure if 1970 was
the year of the Tiger...
Laly> licked my face
Laly> (and I was in Mexico at the time-meditating)
Drew> 1970 = Year of the Dog
Lava> Nope, 1970 was the year of the Dog...
Laly> I haven't looked that far into it lava
Laly> all I know is when he and I connecgt
Laly> connect
Laly> my heart soars
Lava> But the Tiger is associated with being a deep thinker, compassionate,
and is a true-blue friend to others...
Jack> Tiger in dreams is also the sign of a SHAMAN.
Lava> You've found your mate...
Jack> Altho that word has man in it, shaman may be any gender.
Laly> well- I did have a NA dream as you recall jack
Laly> (na- native American)
Jack> Yeah!
Jack> Well a tiger dream is a BIG dream!
Jack> Think of the POWER.
Jack> The true king - or Queen - of the jungle.
Laly> I don't have to think -- I can FEEL the power
Lava> You have the inner strength to accomplish your goal with
compassion and grace.
Jack> very very cool, Laly.
Jack> Hey you guys, guess what?
Lava> ???
Laly> 5 hours of chat??
Laly> or more??
Lava> :-)
Drew> Is this a record?
Jack> 5 hours 26 minutes so far. THAT IS A NEW RECORD I believe.
Laly> yeo
Laly> yep
Lava> I really feel badly for your editor... this was a long one, I guess...
Jack> Beating Chat 0076 (READ IT if you haven't yet!) by 26 minutes so far.
Laly> lava - true, but we editors love it!!
Laly> would NOT believe the Echos that arise
Laly> *that
Laly> for me it is a joy to do.
Jack> Laly's working on a great project for the OrgasmWiki. She's going all
the way back to Chat 0001 and then coming forward from there, harvesting
her favorite nuggets (i.e. chat excerpts) along the way.
Lava> I would love a chat that is about female experiences... (I LOVE reading
from the guys, don't get me wrong)...
Laly> I can send you 2 chats on that very thing lava
Lava> kewl....
Jack> Well now that there are two females present you can have that chat!
Drew> I'd appreciate the feminine perspective too!
Jack> In fact, you've BEEN having that chat!
Laly> uh huh
Jack> We're MODERN dudes - we did NOT hog the conversation! :-)
Laly> one of them is with the ever awesome Mercy
Jack> oh YEAH!
Laly> describing her experiences Jack
Lava> Since we have different kinds of orgasms... I'm interested in how
KSMO translates...
Lava> awesome... Laly, you want my email?
Jack> Somewhat different, Lava, although the KSMO orgasms I think may be
quite similar.
Laly> send it to my email ... *******************@yahoo.com
Lava> k...
Laly> yes jack, I am finding that out as I reading the old chats
Laly> the similarities -
Laly> even with the men's experiences
Laly> I can relate to some of that.
Lava> men and women actually have similar "plumbing"... it's just relative to
whether you have an innie or an outie.
Lava> {:-)
Laly> *is holding ribs laughing
Jack> AND that said I REALLY want to encourage more dialogue between
you - in the Forum and here.
Laly> oh killing me with laughter tonite
Jack> That will help other women know this is a safe place to discuss this.
Laly> uh huh, that is why I write the way I do jack
Jack> RE: the innie outie thing. I confirmed with an MD that
Lava> You're doing a great job, Jack... when I write my autobiography, I'm
definitely mentioning your research.
Jack> about 90% of all of our nervous system wiring
Jack> is already in place when gender even begins to differentiate - at least
at the genital level.
Lava> we all start out as female... some mutate into males...
Laly> uh huh.
Jack> And now of course we know that gender is not binary, but is a
spectrum -
Lava> that's cool info!
Jack> ALL of that said, I really look forward to learning from the dialogue
that women might be willing to share with us here. Including and especially
the both of you!
Laly> me too-- re: other women
Jack> You're both very articulate, come from a refreshingly different
viewpoints, have been through the mill that far too many women and some of
us men have been through, and you are Welcome Here.
Drew> Amen!
Lava> Yes, sometimes men who were abused are forgotten about... they
need healing as well.
Laly> thanks, as I've said you all are my 'family' here
Laly> true lava.
Jack> RE Lave: abused men needed healing as well - yes we have.
Lava> Okay, on the count of three, we all log off... 1... 2...
Laly> I am in contact with one such person lava
Jack> Like Butch and Sundance jumpin off the cliff, eh?
Lava> Thelma and Louise!
Jack> THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!
Laly> thank YOU jack
Lava> Thank YOU, Jack!
Jack> No not Thelma and Louise. How about
Laly> thank you TOO drew HUGSS
Jack> Thelma and Louise WITH PARACHUTES!
Lava> bye, Drew... and Jack....... 3...
Jack> YES!!!!
Drew> Bye all.
Laly> take care HUGS n kisses
Jack> bye Lava - I look fwd to that email. Take care and THANKS for
bringing your authentic self here! The GREATEST GIFT.
Jack> Well. she'll see it in the transcript. :-)
Laly> til next time Jack - muah!!
Jack> Drew what else for YOU?
Jack> I'm still here!
Jack> At your service.
Laly> oh- k ...lol
Drew> Say what now?
Laly> anything else for you drew
Drew> I'm good.
Jack> You have so graciously deferred these past 5 hrs 40 min. What's up
with YOU?
Drew> Perhaps it's time to go do some field research...
Jack> How about a sentence or two. If not, that's ok. You know that by now.
:-) But I'd like to hear from you.
Jack> Well yes, blimey it is jolly grand to get back into the field on occasion,
right?
Drew> Yes, it is... I've kinda been out of the KSMO loop for quite a while.
Jack> (I'm typing from Canada at the moment - under the influence.)
Drew> Oh really!?
Jack> BC
Laly> wow
Drew> How do you like it there?
Jack> Well as you know, I respect your privacy - and would of course love to
hear for my own care and for our readers what effect this practice has and
has had. That's an open invitation. You are an International Treasure in the
history of this practice. :-)
Jack> I love it here.
Laly> I concur with that!!
Drew> That's wonderful!
Drew> Re: Invitation.... Thanks for the opportunity to share.
Jack> Yes, please.
Drew> I'm realizing more and more how not being listened to/heard in my
life affected me then and now...
Drew> So your invitation is very meaningful
Drew> I'm also paying more attention
Drew> in the 'real' world
Drew> to the level of 'engagement' of others.
Laly> awesome.
Drew> It's very interesting,
Jack> [be careful of that dichotomy re: 'real' world - I smell a "discount"]
Jack> How does it affect you emotionally?
Drew> I'm learning a lot... It's bringing up a LOT of emotion.
Drew> Mostly terror when I feel 'vulnerable'
Drew> i.e. Not safe to let others 'in'.
Jack> Or... SEEMS not safe?
Laly> lol- was thinking exact same thing u typed jack
Drew> The 'aforementioned' ** is really challenging me on this one right
now.
Jack> There are certainly times when it is indeed not safe - how ya doing
with telling the difference?
Drew> and suggests that I be more proactive
Jack> Ah good! She has a few clues about you by now. :-)
Drew> LAMO Ya think!
Jack> ya
Laly> << thinks and KNOWS
Jack> proactive in what ways
Drew> Touche!
Jack> [was to Laly I presume]
Drew> Initializing small talk in social situations... Heck, putting myself in
social situations to begin with.
Drew> OH yeah!
Jack> Oy! SMALL talk! MOUNT EVEREST for the likes of us, Drew me boy!
Drew> When I'm 'in the moment' and SPONTANEOUS... I do fine!
Drew> Yepper!
Laly> for me- is talking period
Jack> Yeah like, "My aren't the walls terribly VERTICAL this evening?"
Drew> And apparently, 'tis the season (for all sorts of social events)!
Drew> I like that line... Can I use it?
Jack> A perfect example of Crisis = Opportunity
Laly> Drew will not let me build walls jack
Jack> Yes feel free to use the line at will, D.
Laly> for that am eternally grateful
Jack> Ok, the Laly Upgrade:
Drew> Yes!
Jack> My, aren't the walls terribly transparent when appropriate tonight?
Drew> LOL
Drew> There was a time when I really 'needed' those walls... Now, not so
much!
Laly> thanks- I just meant that when I get that feeling of walled in
Jack> Boundaries DO have their utility. We continually learn how to tune
them
Jack> so that they protect us, yet serve us. More like a membrane than a
wall.
Laly> I look inside to what is making me feel like this
Jack> Yeah!
Laly> and eventually toss the fur-ball and go , OK that's out of the way
Jack> Pahtui!
Laly> lol- I can actually visualize that
Jack> I was describing the picture I saw when you wrote it. :-)
Laly> I was picturing over the shoulder toss
Jack> Yeah that too.
Jack> I'm seeing the over the shoulder with that backward kick for good
measure.
Jack> tata!
Laly>
Jack> Ok after 6 hours, we're starting to get a little loose here. LOL.
Drew> :-)
Laly> that is what **'s help has done
Laly> make me step back and look at ALL of it
Jack> That is WONDERFUL LALY!
Laly> *back
Jack> Oh yeah and SEE HOW FAR YOU'VE COME!
Laly> what doesn't fit - or feel right
Laly> toss
Laly> uh huh
Jack> yep or calmpost it.
Laly> that is why I was so ecstatic with my 3 sessions this week
Laly> re-awakening the Echos
Laly> I was like OH yea
Jack> Oh yeah! Dang I meant to ask you about that when everybody was
around during the main part of the chat.
Jack> YEAH! That is REALLY GREAT!!!
Jack> Tremendous positive feedback from your Echo Effect gurus.
Laly> we can discuss that in next chat
Jack> Yes please and blog meanwhile when the spirit moves you.
Laly> the spirit ALWAYS moves me
Laly> around me, thru me
Jack> Ok You wonderful ones, we've crossed the SIX HOUR mark. That's a
pretty high bar. :-)
Drew> Whoohoo!
Laly> *cheers
Jack> CONGRATULATIONS IT WAS A GREAT CHAT! AND A NEW WORLD'S
RECORD FOR MULTIPLE ORGASM TRIGGER COACHING AND DISCUSSION CHAT!
stoki> hey btw what's the time on your side of the wire, Jack?
Jack> Pacific Standard Time in Winter. -08:00 UTC, -7 in spring summer - Cheers!
Session Close: Sat Dec 09 18:03:43 2006