• Smithie, Laly, Simon, Marty, Bewellalso, and Salty join Jack for a discussion of applying the Key Sound, Echo Effects, and some tips for practice.
• Smithie asks what one should do when feeling pressure to go for it and ejaculate. Jack suggests pausing stimulation and redirecting the energy out through the next Key Sound Laly refers him to a topic "first time effects - successful newbie" on the subject.
• Smithie inquires whether the Protocol was written for young men without stable partners and if it applies to people like him in a stable relationship as he has difficulty finding time for KSMO. Jack replies that he wrote the Protocol as an older guy in a longtime relationship. He goes on to say that the 20 minute sessions 3 times per week is a maximum.
• Smithie notes that he is not feeling much from the practice. Jack tells him that the Echo Effects are subtle in beginning practice and he should not be de-motivated by this.
• Simon asks if there is a different level to the second portion of the Key Sound. Jack replies that there is not initially but the second part of the Key Sound may become louder in response to arousal but should not be forced.
• Jack concludes the session by thanking everyone for their participation.

Session Start: Sat Oct 07 11:59:59 2006
Smithie> Hello there everyone! Nice to be with you again!
Laly> hi ya smithie!! HUGS
Jack> Hey everyone!
simon> hi
Marty> alright Jack how ya been
Smithie> I do appreciate a lady being present with us.
Jack> Hey Marty! Welcome!
Marty> thanks
Laly> < is beaming.
Jack> Welcome Simon!
simon> thank you, I finally made it
Jack> Yay!
Marty> me too with such a welcome :-)
Jack> It's heartfelt, Marty. We're very glad you're here.
Smithie> Who's first with a question?
Jack> Attaboy smithie, I was just typing that!
Marty> I am easy nothing pressing on my mind
Laly> simon would u care to start?
Jack> Also, everyone pls give a one-liner description of yourself, age where from etc.
Laly> 35, single4, female , from USA, KSMO veteran of over 1 year.
Jack> thanks Laly! Everyone else please?
simon> 51, divorced still hanging in there
Jack> That's the ticket!
Smithie> I'm a newbie, not very regular in practice and I am living in Europe; married, 53
Marty> ok. male straight 28 single, Ireland, farming, have been held back from learning the KSMO by issues
Jack> We're here to help you learn something really new, simon!
Laly> I agree with Jack simon :-).
Jack> With all of Smithie's disclaimers, he's doing GREAT and is a highly valued member of our online community. VERY GIVING.
Jack> SO'S LALY.
Laly> awwwwww
Smithie> Thank you!
Jack> And a very warm welcome to Marty on the Emerald Isle. Dashed hard work but an Irish Farm really has a VERY romantic ring to it!
Laly> keep that up jack and I'll be floating out of my chair
Jack> A faerie ring, Marty. :-)
Laly> hi bewellalso HUGS.
Jack> Welcome back bewellalso!
Marty> lol
Jack> ;-)
Jack> Erin Go Braugh!
Jack> Bewell, we were just going around the room with a one-line intro including about how long we've been practicing KSMO.
Smithie> Well, if no one else has a question, I have a limited question and one general one.
Jack> That's fine Smithie, unless there's a newbie who'd like to go first. I always like to offer that opportunity. :-)
Smithie> My specific question is this: I remember reading somewhere on the forum a discussion about what to do, from the perspective of MMO, when one is feeling sexually under pressure to relieve oneself by ejaculating, but now I cannot find it. Could you suggest any keywords I could use to find it? Or perhaps you remember in which section it is?
Jack> That's an EXCELLENT question!
Jack> Off I would say use the keyword "redirect" and see what you get.
Jack> That's a VERY good issue to index better, once I get the WIKI up and running (hopefully within 30 days).
Marty> as in redirecting sexual energy
Marty> or recycle?
Jack> Yes, as in redirecting that pent up energy
Jack> that often triggers you to "go for it" (i.e. go for ejaculation) to relieve the pressure.
Jack> INSTEAD: As you feel the pressure building during the 20 minute sessions, PAUSE THE STIMULATION PORTION for a while,
Jack> AND direct that pressure / energy out through your next Key Sound !
Laly> http://jackjohnston.protelis.com/mai...07&fid=36#4708
Laly> the link to what you a referring to jack ::-).
Jack> Thanks Laly! Can you pls also give the Conference name an the topic name associated with that link?
Laly> first time effects - successful newbie
Smithie> Actually, it is not linked to the 20 minute session.
Marty> I know a finger position or mudra which helps to naturally direct sexual energy up ones spine
Marty> left hand hold top of thumb to two middle fingers
Marty> and right hand hold top of thumb to the tops of the two last fingers
Jack> In the early stages I recommend you consider not introducing outside elements Marty - until
Jack> you get the essential KSMO practice dialed in.
Marty> sorry true too
Jack> Not a law. Just a suggestion. :-)
Marty> you could try it tho
Marty> I would like to know what others think of it
Jack> There will be PLENTY of energy available to you by just using the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol by itself.
Laly> OH yes- a resounding yeah to that jack !!!
Smithie> I'll read the discussion that Laly has kindly indicated.
Marty> hmm I am jealous of you successful guys !!! lol
Laly> marty- I've had my share of fur-balls and bumps in my journey before I ever truly can say I succeeded
Jack> Then as you get a sense of how IT really works and it starts really delivering to you, THEN when you like, intro little bits of
Jack> other practices and see what effects they may have. That's my SUGGESTION - ahem, not a rule. :-)
Smithie> The question of PLENTY of energy leads me to my general question, if I may?
Jack> The IDEA
Jack> is to direct the energy OUT THROUGH the Key Sound. This will likely start making the sound louder, so you might
Jack> want to rest something over your mouth LIGHTLY but NEVER Inside your mouth during the practice. Choking risk!
Jack> It's basically ejaculating the energy out through the Key
Jack> Sound instead of through your penis!
Marty> I hear you Laly ...so called big f
Marty> big f***in learning experiences
Marty> sorry
Laly> is ok-
Jack> Did the question of what to do with the building energy get answered to everyone's satisfaction?
Laly> now since I starting counseling- I am running into more fur-balls
Jack> Any more on that b4 smithie asks his next?
Laly> did for me jack :-) thanks
Marty> all good
Smithie> The general question is this: I get the impression that the Protocol was written for (young) men who do not have stable partners and who therefore indulge in regular self-pleasuring. My situation is quite the opposite! I am no longer so young, I am blessed with a stable and rewarding relationship with my wife and my family and professional life is such that I have difficulty in finding time for MMO. And when I do find time
Smithie> often don't have much sexual energy. My problem is not that I risk ejaculating if I touch myself too much, but rather that I have difficulty in feeling sexual during my practices. Is there a case for a different version of the Protocol for people like me?
Laly> hi saltys :-).
Jack> Welcome back Saltys! Hey that's a very good question, smithie!
Salty> Hi to everyone.
Marty> Hi Salty welcome
Jack> Actually the Protocol was written by an older guy (me) with a partner of (at the time) 20 years.
Smithie> OK!
Jack> Smithie, what we are talking about re: this practice is a MAXIMUM
Laly> your question has me thinking smithie-
Marty> I was thinking this too - one for Jack to answer!
Jack> M.A.X.I.M.U.M.
Jack> of 20 minutes per session,
Jack> a MAXIMUM of 3 times per week.
Jack> Preferably earlier in the day rather than later.
Marty> and from what I have heard it will give you lotsa energy !
simon> When doing the KS do you lift the sound to a higher level w/the 2nd half of the sound?
Marty> of every king lol
Jack> Do you have the power to create that kind of space in your own life?
Laly> higher level simon?
Smithie> Sometimes
Marty> kind
Jack> Hold on simon. We address one question at a time here. We'll be with you very soon! :-)
Laly> (and for marty- yes it does, in many ways)
Jack> It's a question for you, Smithie - What ARE you willing to do to learn this LIFELONG skill?
Smithie> That seems very little to rewire my system after all those years!
Jack> Shocking isn't it?
Jack> Do you need to feel that it needs to be more difficult?
Jack> ;-)
Smithie> Well, as I sit and do my Aaahhhs and feel "nothing", I wonder is it having any effect at all.
Jack> If you're doing an AHHH then you are not making the Key Sound correctly.
Smithie> Sorry, that was an abbreviation!
Smithie> I have your second seminar and I listen to that as I do my practice.
Jack> No problem. You have felt absolutely NO tingles Anywhere in your body, no goose bumps no twinges no spontaneous sensations of ANY kind
Jack> during practice, is that correct?
Jack> Smithie, you have the Talking Stick.
Smithie> No. At the very beginning, I did experience Echoes during the practice itself. Since then, the practice time is usually "flat", but I experience Echoes at other times.
Jack> Oh.
Jack> I thought you said you experienced
Jack> NOTHING.
Smithie> A generalization... But I was thinking more specifically of my practice periods which lately have not been motivating.
Jack> I'm not trying to shame you or insult you - I'm trying to EMPHASIZE just HOW INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT IT IS to ACKNOWLEDGE
Jack> those INCREDIBLY SUBTLE and NOT particularly erotic SPONTANEOUS SENSATIONS during practice.
Laly> uh huh
Smithie> No problem!
Jack> As soon as your MIND starts slipping into SELF TALK that is DESCRIBING those sensations as nothing or nothing much you are COGNITIVELY stuck.
Laly> (ie. mind noise)
Marty> over analyzing?
Jack> Yeah and just MISlabelling what IS happening.
Jack> It's a COGNITIVE trap.
Smithie> When I surf the site and read testimonies, I get very motivated. But over the following days, it is difficult to be faithful to my commitment to practice.
Marty> allowing myself just to be and accepting what comes. is one of my blocks
Jack> Smithie you don't have to even be faithful to practice. It doesn't need to be a burden.
Jack> It doesn't need to be homework.
Smithie> Then, when I do sit down to practice and "nothing much" happens, I tend to feel more demotivated.
Smithie> Yes, but if I don't practice, I will not make any headway.
Jack> Yeah. You are DEMOTIVATING YOURSELF by how you are DESCRIBING your experience.
Jack> It is a COGNITIVE trap.
Laly> yep.
Jack> Between the ears not between the legs.
Jack> The equipment, the hardware, is just fine.
Smithie> So, what do I do?
Smithie> Or perhaps "not do"?
Jack> You're just having trouble ACCEPTING that for YOU this could work by practicing only 20 min no MORE than 3 times / wk.
Smithie> As you can see, I am a determined person and like Marty have difficulty in letting go.
Marty> let you body / feelings give an answer - I know saying it is not directly helpful...
Jack> First understand that in the early
Jack> stages of practice, the spontaneous Echo Effects are BY DEFINITION subtle, faint, AND NOT PARTICULARLY EROTIC.
Jack> Yeah I agree Marty - the WAY your body gives you the answer and the GUIDANCE is by the VERY PRESENCE - HOWEVER SLIGHT
Jack> of those Echo Effects - the little tingles etc. THOSE represent your body's GRADUAL AWAKENING of this LIFELONG multiorgasmic response.
Jack> Smithie, I also want to ask you, how do you PREPARE for the 20 min session? And generally what time of day or night?
Jack> And then I will address the couples' issue portion of your initial question.
Smithie> Generally at the end of the afternoon, just before I have supper. Sometimes I am quite relaxed, at other times I come in "cold".
Jack> If you're feeling cold and have trouble changing gears - postpone the practice. Maybe just use that time to transition from cold to a little warmer generally. :-)
Jack> In other words PLEASE DO NOT FORCE YOURSELF TO PRACTICE.
Smithie> But often I have to choose between practice in between two other commitments or no practice at all.
Jack> Then no practice at all.
Smithie> That's clear!
Smithie> I suppose I am trying too hard?
Jack> What's your hunch?
Smithie> Yes, I am!
Jack> You get a BUCKET FULL of SOLID GOLD SELF-CALIBRATION Points!
Jack> :-)
Salty> We'll be in and out, so may not be available to chat from time to time today. Have lots to do but will look forward to reading this later.
Jack> Those hunches are VERY IMPORTANT and valuable guides - in combination with the absence or presence and quality of the Echo Effects.
Smithie> Sorry, Salty, that I am taking up so much time!
Jack> Ok Saltys any quick comments or a question we can post an answer to when possible?
Jack> And simon gets the Talking Stick next re: his Key Sound question.
Salty> Not a problem, Smithie! We are interested in what you are learning as we are learning too.
Jack> Smithie,
Jack> I want to encourage you to remind yourself that we're only talking about a MAXIMUM of 20 minutes and only NO MORE THAN 3 times per week.
Jack> And so given that, I'm hoping you'll give yourself that GIFT of time - with a thoughtful transition into it and back out of it (so budget 30 to 40 minutes).
Smithie> Out of fairness to the others who are waiting to discuss their concerns, I suggest to stop here. I have plenty to think about and to read about on the forum. We can come back to the couple aspects at the next chat.
Jack> Ideally with some open time after the practice because ECHO EFFECTS OFTEN persist AFTER practice,
Jack> so don't book an appt immediately after your session! :-)
Jack> RE: The couples issue - here one of the biggest cornerstones is COMMUNICATION. If you have discomfort discussion sexual matters with your partner
Jack> then THAT is an opportunity AND A NECESSITY to improve.
Smithie> No, thank goodness that is not an issue.
Jack> Also, your partner, regardless of gender, has an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY to access the power of this practice. It is equally beneficial for all genders and orientations.
Jack> There is also the couples' exercise section of the intro seminar.
Jack> Now, re: using the Key Sound WHILE making love with a partner.
Jack> This is NOT A REQUIREMENT.
Jack> However, as you FEEL more, you are likely to want to become MORE EXPRESSIVE and that may include vocally. So that is something
Jack> that it IS appropriate to discuss with your partner.
Jack> I also want to remind you about being VERY AWARE during lovemaking to direct your expressive sounds AWAY from your partner's ears as there can be a LOT of
Jack> energy behind those sound.
Smithie> My question - for the next chat! - is precisely how to integrate the sound into our sexual relationship.
Jack> Begin by listening to the couples' section of the intro seminar. Have you done that?
Smithie> Of course!!!
Jack> Together?
Smithie> No!
Jack> What's your next step?
Smithie> Wait until the next chat.
Jack> What's your next step with each other re: the question you just asked me and the response I just gave you?
Smithie> My wife thinks that MMO is for me and she doesn't feel inclined to get involved. Not opposed, but not really interested.
Jack> Ok. At some future time I urge you to consider revisiting that issue with her. And to get some short term professional help to do so if need be, from a sexuality-trained counselor.
Smithie> Hey, I'm afraid I'm driving away the other participants!
Jack> Meanwhile, the first step is for you to develop the skill for yourself.
Jack> Ok?
Smithie> Yes. Thank you for all the time that you have given me.
Jack> You are VERY welcome!
Jack> Thank you for bringing your AUTHENTIC SELF to this discussion. That's a great gift. :-)
Smithie> Thank you too, the other participants who are still there, for your patience!!
Jack> Ok! SIMON are you still with us?
simon> sorry about my persistent question and interruption, I messed up w/the scroll
Jack> Hey no worries. :-) Thank you VERY much for your patience.
Jack> I like to handle questions that way so that the transcripts are more readable. That's why we use the Talking Stick convention - basically
Jack> one person has the floor at a time - we do our best to answer their question thoroughly - for them and for the Record - then we offer the same to you. :-)
simon> any way I just wanted to know if there is a different level to the 2nd portion of the KS
Jack> Not initially - not forced.
Jack> In the beginning the second part of the sound is fairly calm and quiet, just like the first part.
Jack> Then AS AROUSAL INCREASES that energy is going to want to have somewhere to go!
Jack> THAT is traditionally where men at some point decide to go for it and use ejaculation as a way to express that energy.
Jack> The Multiple Orgasm Trigger offers an ADDITIONAL option of
Jack> using the KEY SOUND as a way to express that increasing energy - as a way to release it. The COSMIC DIFFERENCE for men especially is that
Jack> with ejaculation the energy then usually dissipates rapidly - whereas with the Key Sound triggered multiple orgasms - since there is no male ejaculation - the
Jack> orgasmic waves may persist for HOURS and with VERY HIGH INTENSITY - basically they are there for you as much as you are physically able to handle them.
Jack> Simon, does that help clarify the difference between using an ARTIFICIALLY (i.e. forced) louder second part
Jack> of the Key Sound, and simply ALLOWING the second part of the Key Sound to BECOME louder to express the SPONTANEOUS arousal?
simon> yes it does.
Jack> Great! What else would you like to ask. You do indeed have the Talking Stick (with thanks again for your patience!). :-)
simon> am okay I guess am here to learn from the others
Jack> Ok great! Are sure there's nothing else you'd like to ask at this point? Little question or big one. Either way. :-)
Jack> BTW have you read the pdf document Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol Summary Update?
simon> the one that came out in 95' more or less
Jack> Well we've made a few improvements since then. :-)
simon> I mean 2005
Jack> Oh! LOL!
Jack> I took you literally since the first version came out in 1993. :-)
Jack> Yes the one with a January 2005 revision. That's the guide I recommend you follow pretty closely at least in the beginning. And
Jack> keep in mind that the Nothing Is Happening Trap is THE most common way people get stuck in this practice. You are definitely not alone.
simon> this practice for me has just taken time to learn
Jack> It's a perfectly natural response to our enculturation.
simon> Ive enjoyed it, I do appreciate it
Jack> What are your Echo Effects like?
Jack> What do you notice?
Jack> What sensations?
simon> I am feeling them and they tend to increase and at any one sitting I can feel different sensations all the time
simon> but the gate has not opened
simon> which is fine because I am patient and the ride is coming along
Jack> How would you describe the Echo Effect amplitude variations currently?
simon> huh?
Jack> Do they get stronger sometimes then weaker other times or are they always about the same?
simon> they vary but they are consistently there
Jack> EXCELLENT news! Have you ever placed a hand on your chest when you make the Key Sound to check the vibration in your chest?
simon> nope
Jack> Ok, that's a very good way of checking the huskiness - the depth of your Key Sound.
simon> ok!
Jack> When you are making the Key Sound correctly, and using whichever hand you're NOT using for the stimulation touch if you temporarily rest
Jack> it on your chest, you should feel a pretty good vibration in your chest.
simon> fine
Smithie> Good night folks!
Jack> Good night Smithie!
simon> I'll give the stick to another
Jack> Ok! Enjoy your practice simon - it's a matter of letting ourselves relax enough to allow the feelings to increase in intensity,
Jack> while using relaxing breath and gentle Key Sounds to GENTLY nudge them higher - over time.
Jack> The REAL PLUS is that you ARE getting fairly CONSISTENT Echoes resulting from your practice.
Jack> That is a VERY good sign!
Jack> Ok!
simon> thank you
Jack> You are VERY welcome simon. Thanks for being here today and asking that important question. You help me teach others!
Jack> Saltys are you near the keyboard? Would you like to say hi and maybe ask a question?
Jack> If not, then the Talking Stick passes to our esteemed Laly!
Jack> Thank YOU for YOUR patience as well!
Jack> Dang, I'm sorry that bewell wasn't able to hang around. :-(
Jack> Laly are you also afk - logging mode?
Jack> If everybody's afk, I guess will be too! :-)
Jack> I want to thank EACH OF YOU for being here today. I hope we were able to help you take that next step in your practice.
Jack> I wish each of you ALL of the best that life has to offer,
Jack> Jack
Jack> See you in the Forum, and next time in the chats!
Session Close: Sat Oct 07 13:29:46 2006