Session Start: Thu Sep 07 18:01:54 2006
Jack> Good evening... How are you?
Laly> great been flying high the past 3 days
Drew> Howdy Jack.
Jack> Hey Drew! HUGGGSSS!!!
Drew> Thanks Jack... And back at ya!
Jack> That sounds really great Laly, CONGRATULATIONS!!!
Jack> What news?
Laly> u wanna go first drew?
Drew> No, not right now.
Laly> ok.
Laly> well past 3 nites had some really strong Echo Effects
Laly> that culminated in 3 separate heartgasms
Laly> and still feeling those Echos as I type tonite.
Jack> Congratulations on another Grand Opening :-)
Drew> Not without a 'gentle push' mind! ;-)
Laly> true drew.
Jack> and a LOT of COURAGE.
Drew> Amen
Laly> if not for a little umm encouragement Tues nite
Laly> would not have braved the late hour and experienced that 2nd explosive heartgasm.
Jack> I think you're starting to get the connection between healing the emotional furballs and how that makes room for expanding effects.
Laly> hello eyes
Eyes188> What UP?!!
Eyes188> hey
Jack> Welcome back, eyes188!
Laly> my heart energy for one eyes
Eyes188> I've managed to miss every single chat except this one
Eyes188> heartgasms huh
Laly> oh yeah - blessed loving
Laly> ones.
Jack> I'm glad you made it back eyes... yeah, laly is sharing about some recent new openings.
Jack> Laly, what do your heartgasms feel like?
Laly> hmmm.....
Jack> [ ONLY IF you're ok sharing about it, as always.]
Laly> like I am floating on a cloud
Laly> my heart opening like a lotus flower
Laly> seeing vivid color bands
Laly> feeling so full of love and joy
Laly> it shines brightly
Laly> that I tremble all over
Laly> have bliss tears
Laly> moan whimper and cry all at same time from sheer orgasmic bliss it creates
Eyes188> I'll have what she's having.
Jack> :-)
Laly>
Laly> and has occurred in less than 10 min time
Laly> not rushing it tho
Jack> Yeah re: not rushing it... they're just kinda there waiting for you.
Jack> [was to Laly]
Laly> the hardest part to explain is the intense hot and then ice bath I get with them
Laly> not uncomfortable but arousing
Laly> lifting me to higher level of pleasure
Laly> or arousal.
Jack> That's a real good time to enjoy those relaxing breaths to allow all you want.
Laly> like tonite- my entire heart region was warm
Laly> umm - regarding relaxing breaths -
Laly> I find that difficult
Jack> [didn't mean to interrupt re: warm heart region - that sounds VERY SWEET! ]
Laly> to say
Laly> I pant, and have trouble breathing at all jack
Laly> shallow and rapid
Jack> I'm just suggesting another door if you care to check it out... at the higher arousal states to
Jack> gently shift into a pattern or relaxing breathing, perhaps while visualizing allowing the energy to flow ever more freely within you.
Jack> ... Another way of surfing the higher arousal zone :-)
Laly> when I tried that tonite- found the Echos to fade
Laly> regarding the deeper relaxed breaths
Laly> the Echos right now are leveled out
Laly> heart is still pounding tho.
Laly> pounding
Jack> How do you rate your level of comfort when that's happening?
Laly> is good right now
Jack> Wonderful!
Laly> experiencing higher levels of heat coming off me tho
Jack> Comfortable or uncomfortable?
Laly> been constant for some time
Laly> comfortable for now
Laly> but am light-headed
Jack> Slower deeper breathing, without forcing, will help that.
Jack> What's called pursed-lip breathing: With mouth closed, gently inhale, then
Jack> for the exhale shape your mouth like you're going to whistle, then exhale - by doing it
Jack> that way your exhale creates a little back-pressure behind the lips that helps change the blood gas ratios,
Jack> and that usually helps.
Jack> More grounding. Earth the Power.
Laly> ok-
Laly> heat is rising a bit
Jack> Just offering a suggestion for possible exploration. :-)
Laly> thanks.
Jack> How about we pass the Talking Stick to Drew, if you like, Drew, or to Eyes?
Laly> fine with me- just sit here and 'cool' off
Eyes188> A couple weeks ago I went from the pretty much nothing phase to the I can feel constant Echoes most of the time
Eyes188> and
Drew> The 'eyes' have it!
Eyes188> sometimes I feel like I am getting close to the KSMO orgasm a few times
Eyes188> the Echoes are strangely a type of pleasure I've not experienced before, and noticeable different from normal sexual pleasure. it's like the difference between two brothers
Laly> love that reference eyes.
Jack> How is this pleasure different, eyes?
Eyes188> it's like the difference between two types of chocolate is the best way I can put it
Jack> :-)
Eyes188> you can tell they're basically the same thing but there's a different nuance to it
Laly> kewl.
Jack> Eyes, to avoid slipping into the chasing after trap I invite you to explore this zone of the different chocolate and when the
Jack> next door is ready to open it will, I trust. :-)
Eyes188> yes I imagine I'm falling for many traps because ever since the day I really GOT it I've been pretty excited about practicing and have been doing so every day
Eyes188> but there are different kinds of chocolate to look out for?
Eyes188> because I assumed that would be the only one
Laly> uh huh- thus the trap eyes
Laly> expected only one thing
Laly> one kind.
Eyes188> that may explain why my progress has actually gone slowly downhill since it first happened
Eyes188> I've been expecting a specific kind
Jack> Please note that one of the MOST COMMON THEMES of people reporting openings to the OMG Zone (the Omigod Zone) is that: "I wasn't
Jack> really expecting anything and then it happened."
Jack> VERY GOOD INSIGHT EYES!
Laly> no 2 practices of mine were the same eyes
Eyes188> It seems hard to watch how you feel without having expectations
Jack> yeah it does!
Jack> But it gets easier.
Eyes188> and that's exactly what I've been doing.. expecting
Eyes188> glad I could make it today!
Jack> Me too!
Laly> glad ua re here too eyes - hugss.
Jack> Thanks for identifying the trap Laly!
Laly> your welcome
Laly> kinda reminded me of what u said earlier jack to me
Jack> yeah?
Laly> regarding deeper relaxed breathing
Laly> and higher pleasure levels
Eyes188> I also found myself having the mindset that I'm trying very purposely to build onto the previous Echo.
Eyes188> it got very analytical
Jack> Ahh. Chasing the Fawn Away a bit, are we?
Eyes188> I'm running after it with some chocolate but I should probably just sit still and wait for it to eat out of my hand
Jack> I understand, Eyes. Our culture has a VERY strong push for mechanizing sex and sexual response.
Jack> Yeah! The Eyes Have It!
Jack> :-)
Laly> yes - that is it exactly!!
Laly> lol- mind reading again jack
Jack> :-)
Jack> BTW relaxing also lets the heart area relax and open more.
Eyes188> what do you think would be a good technique to help not expecting it?
Laly> meditation works for me eyes - before practice
Jack> And some relaxing lyrics-free music can help too.
Laly> yeah- nooo rock n roll music
Laly> lol.
Jack> And then tuning in to the NUANCED VARIETY of the Echo Effects that ARE happening, and notice how they change... how new areas begin to awaken... how the energy begins to move
Jack> in certain areas... perhaps how automatic body movements begin happening - when you allow them to.
Eyes188> so I should really be expecting ANY kind of Echos coming from anywhere
Jack> It all adds up.
Jack> Instead of looking ahead at your expectations, just STUDY and ENJOY and APPRECIATE THE NASCENT INTELLIGENCE of the PATTERNS of the spontaneous Echo Effects as they wax and wane and wax again.
Jack> And continue to manifest in new ways.
Laly> like me jack.
Jack> Instead of thinking about how experience matches some hypothetical template... just let them take your hand and be your guide.
Jack> by them I mean the spontaneous Echo Effect sensations.
Jack> Yes indeed Laly.
Eyes188> yes, I tend to be a pretty left brained person. "experience matches some hypothetical template" struck home
Jack> From one lefty to another. :-)
Jack> That template matching pattern is what often yields a stmt such as "no REAL Echo Effects".
Laly> uh huh.
Jack> It's a VERY understandable pattern being raised in our culture. Template matching definitely has survival value in SOME applications but not all. :-)
Jack> There are OTHER forms of compass.
Jack> Presence or absence and relative amplitude and variety of the spontaneous Echo Effects is one such.
Jack> Let's you know when your practice is on the signal line or drifting off. The thing is,
Jack> it is a NATURAL PATTERN for the Echo Effects to VARY IN INTENSITY.
Eyes188> hmmm
Laly> oh yeah- can testify to that one.
Jack> For most of us, our enculturated patterns of continuous stimulation results in a more linear pattern. Going for It.
Eyes188> what do you think about genitals becoming less sensitive as you practice, even though you are using very light touches
Jack> But the true, deeper, fully multi-orgasmic response - has a cyclical carrier wave if you will. Weaker a little stronger less strong a little more stronger fade OMG! etc.
Eyes188> ahhhh so it could be gone at one second and POW the other?
Jack> Sensitivity can also be cyclical when you allow it the breathing room of stimulation that is periodic rather than continuous.
Laly> mine is extremely sensitive eyes - I can't stimulate the area directly
Eyes188> I finally see now what you mean by linear pattern
Jack> Yes, gone POW is a good analog for I wasn't expecting anything and then it happened!
Laly> .
Eyes188> Like I was saying earlier I would try to build on the last one, and if the Echoes went away I thought my sand castle had crumbled
Jack> Yeah instead of linear, this is more like sailing. You follow the wind as it waxes and wanes and shifts direction. :-)
Jack> Yeah Brother, that qualifies as a Psych Out. :-)
Jack> Most of the challenge in learning this skill happens between the ears not between the legs.
Jack> i.e. our preconceived notions.
Laly> yep.
Jack> The big shift is a COGNITIVE shift. Mostly just getting out of the way of our body's INHERENT WISDOM of how to open to the Multi-Orgasmic Zone.
Laly> allowing your body to have the reins
Eyes188> it's so hard to do that sometimes, it's like a Chinese finger trap
Laly> so to speak.
Eyes188> especially when you've been doing it a while and getting tired of it. You should probably just stop
Laly> stop, step back, take deep breaths.
Jack> That's why max 20 min. OR when it's no longer fun. Whichever is first. :-)
Jack> Yeah returning back to relaxing breathing is basically keeping your hand on the helm, adjusting course, then kicking back and enjoying the ride for a while.
Jack> Any other questions or thoughts you'd like to share?
Jack> Something you REALLY have going for you Eyes is a GREAT OPEN attitude.
Jack> You ARE willing to change course a bit, open to fine-tuning the process. No Blame. Just adjusting course... finding the wind... then sail on!
Eyes188> aye, there's a right way and a wrong way and I'm just going to persist until it's right
Laly> hmmm.
Jack> Well instead of right and wrong, just think of tuning to the station on a shortwave radio - sometimes the frequency drifts one way or the other, so you adjust, then the signal - the Echo Effects - come back
Laly> boy that throws all kinds of flags at me
Eyes188> leaving room for individual stuff anyway
Eyes188> what does
Laly> right and wrong way eyes.
Jack> in a little stronger. No blame. Perseverance Furthers. As says the Book of Changes.
Eyes188> flags?
Laly> made me go 'whoa'
Laly> I like jack and what he said
Laly> persisting is ok- AS long as you are not chasing the fawn eyes , but allow it to come to you
Jack> No blame, Eyes. Enculturation. The right/wrong thing may not be an optimal cognitive template.
Jack> That's why I offered more like tuning in to a resonant frequency. Our enculturation can provide a lot of static in the form
Jack> of those expectations and all of that other stuff going on while you're just trying to lie there and grab 20 min of some relaxation and maybe something new. :-)
Eyes188> I mean that not as in there is a single way, but that there is a way that makes it work and ways that don't, such as the traps
Jack> Yeah just read them like road signs along the way.
Jack> No biggie.
Laly> thanks for clarifying eyes
Jack> But dichotomous cognitive patterns e.g. right way wrong way can be constructive.
Jack> Also can imply that there is one right way and I wouldn't assume that at all.
Laly> I have yet to read that any two forum members practice the same way.
Eyes188> you're right. it doesn't help practice any
Jack> I want to encourage you to develop a sense of MARVEL and RESPECT for the inherent intelligence inside of you that is hinted at by the appearance of those Echo Effects,
Jack> and what that intelligence has to teach you about yourself and your capacity for feeling.
Eyes188> the fact that I realize they're cyclical I think is going to help because I would get so discouraged when it went away
Eyes188> Thanks a lot for the chat and great advice guys but I'm afraid I have to run now. I've taken notes and plan to put them into effect.
Jack> That's great news, Eyes! Yeah it's very natural to fret at that point.
Jack> You are very welcome. Pls do come back. It's great to have you here,
Eyes188> Thanks, see you next time
Jack> and I hope you'll keep in touch via the Forum as well. Let us know how it's going.
Laly> nite eyes - HUGSS.
Jack> What's new, Drew?
Drew> I'm on a break from practice at the moment.
Drew> I'm currently participating in a Professional Feldenkrais training program.
Jack> That sounds really fun!
Drew> Oh, it IS!
Jack> Get IN to your body EVEN MORE!
Jack> Very nice gift to give yourself!
Drew> yeah... did some of that today!
Drew> Found some HUGE furballs!
Drew> really good awareness though.
Laly> wow.
Jack> Excellent!
Jack> An old friend of mine liked to say at a time like that: "Oh sh*t Thank God!"
Drew> Allowing the deep abdominal muscles to let go... There was a big release of emotion.
Jack> Like: OW!!! Whew!!!! Ahhh...
Drew> EXACTLY!
Drew> I'm looking forward to going again tomorrow.
Jack> Very good Drew! Opening up that Valley in the Belly more!
Drew> Yep, that's it!
Jack> Wow STAY TUNED Brother!
Drew> Will do!
Jack> That should definitely help your Key Sound huskiness etc. too. Woo Whoo
Drew> I'm getting some wonderful support.
Jack> !!!
Jack> Excellent.
Drew> So, that's the latest from me.
Jack> Cool, thanks!
Laly> having support does make the difference for sure-
Jack> I'm really glad to hear you giving yourself opportunities like that, Drew!
Jack> Expand that support network!
Drew> yeah, it's good for me on so many levels.
Drew> And, I LOVE "Feldy"... Moshe was a genius!
Laly> awesome... crys happy tears.
Jack> I look forward to hearing more about what you discover, Drew!
Drew> Yeah, me too!
Laly>
Jack> LOL - You Da Man, Drew!
Laly> he's found out a few things he didn't know jack.
Jack> That sounds great! Maybe not always easy at first - but empowering!
Drew> Yes, I'd agree with that.
Jack> Good!
Jack> Well Friends, are we about wrapped for this evening?
Laly> for me- am calm finally
Drew> I am... My nervous system needs some down-time
Jack> Me too.
Jack> You doin' Ok Ms. Laly?
Laly> yeah-
Jack> You ROCK!
Laly> no longer feel a spike driving through my skull
Jack> WONDERFUL NEWS!
Laly> will share next time something that happened at his house jack
Laly> a new path that was shown to me in a dream
Jack> Ok!
Laly> sweet dreams jack HUGS
Laly> u too drew HUGSS
Jack> Same to you Ms. Laly!
Jack> And to you Brother Drew!!!
Jack> Til we meet again...
mariachi> hi jack - am I too late?
Jack> Hey mariachi, we'd just wrapped for the evening. But I know
Jack> you're typin' from Down Under and there's a tough time thing. How are you doing?
Jack> G'day!
mariachi> No worries - I have terribly haphazard net access at the moment!
mariachi> I am not doing too badly.
mariachi> Yourself?
Jack> Doing well thanks!
Jack> How may I help you this evening?
mariachi> I don't have any specific questions - as I have said my
mariachi> privacy situation is quite limited.
mariachi> I was more just stopping in to see a few friendly faces!
mariachi>
Jack> Well you got one any way! :-
Jack> :-)
Jack> If I can still type that is, LOL!
mariachi> haha
mariachi> There is one question that I do have actually.
mariachi> I was wondering what the link is to the revised protocol
mariachi> ie the written/printable one.
Jack> Send me an email and I'll send it to you by reply.
mariachi> great. Will do.
mariachi> Although I do believe that I am definitely at a stage
mariachi> where I need to simply trust my 'body's wisdom'.
Jack> In what way?
mariachi> Oh, what I mean
mariachi> is that I know the practice inside out... it has
mariachi> been over three years now
mariachi> and I find that when I do have the privacy I
mariachi> experience good things (small Echoes) and
mariachi> I believe a lot of that had with just listening to my
mariachi> body and not worrying too much about "am I doing this right?"
Jack> Yeah! YOUR ECHO EFFECTS tell you. :-)
Jack> What are your plans for creating more privacy in your life?
mariachi> I am looking of moving out of home.
Jack> What kind of time frame are you imagining?
mariachi> Hopefully before the end of the year.
Jack> Start off 2007 in a new way, eh?
mariachi> Yeah. and I really look forward to getting back
mariachi> to spending some time with myself on regular basis.
Jack> I like hearing you say that!
mariachi> It is really important to me
Jack> GREAT!!!
Jack> Way to GROW!
mariachi> At the moment I just try and do some other things like
mariachi> baths, and some gentle rocking (as I do not have to
mariachi> worry about noise!)
Jack> You know - there are a number of people in this community who may have similar issues,
Jack> and I'd love it if you'd post some survival tips to the Forum re: what you've learned!
mariachi> I am only an amateur at the moment in terms of survival,
Jack> Well I just mean how you carve out little zones of private space at bath time or whatever,
Jack> so that you can practice, even though you're in a shared-living-space situation.
Jack> I was just inviting you to. If it doesn't inspire you, no worries, eh mate? :-)
mariachi> Yeah, I was just thinking about what I could offer
Jack> Your Story.
Jack> It's as simple as that.
mariachi> It has been a major struggle over the last 18 months,
mariachi> and I guess just remembering that a time will come for
mariachi> me to regularly practice again. While in the meantime
mariachi> just letting little moments of relaxation
mariachi> like listening to music and having goosebumps etc.
Jack> It all adds up, Brother. I trust that.
mariachi> Yes. It can be a hard thing to do sometimes - trusting yourself.
Jack> And yet that's at the core of this practice. :-)
Jack> Including trusting yourself so much that you learn to let the spontaneous Echo Effects be your guide.
mariachi> As I've heard (read) you saying - it is sometimes
mariachi> comes and goes...
mariachi> yes
mariachi> I agree about letting Echo Effects be your guide
mariachi> I don't want to keep you too long Jack - I can imagine you've
mariachi> had a long day - but
mariachi> thanks for staying for a little chat anyways :-D
mariachi> Really appreciate it!
Jack> You bet! We've missed you here.
mariachi> Yes. I sometimes wonder what I can add
mariachi> seeing I haven't had much practice over the last 18 months
mariachi> But it can be nice to stop by
Jack> Definitely! And what you have to offer is Your Story. And I'm glad you're checkin'
Jack> back in!
mariachi> Me too!
Jack> I also encourage you to consider
Jack> giving yourself a night out some time. Just go rent a nice private room or bungalow/cabin for an evening,
Jack> get some nice snacks and music and take it from there. :-)
mariachi> Not a bad idea at all Jack
mariachi> I like the sound of that :-D
Jack> Maybe even stretch it to a two-nighter. That gives
Jack> you some time to walk on the beach or the woods or downtown or wherever
Jack> this little hideaway might be.
mariachi> I had a great two nighter in Paris on my trip recently -
Jack> WOW!
mariachi> one night of practice was met by some tears, the next
Jack> Now THAT is a HIDE-AWAY!
Jack> Yeah I hear ya re: the tears.
mariachi> I had some great waves of pleasure at the end -
mariachi> and felt great for the next week :-D
Jack> WONDERFUL WONDER-FULL mariachi!
Jack> Yeah so pls DO give yourself that gift - maybe about once a month or so - I mean... what the hey!
Jack> Take a nice book or two, etc.
Jack> Journal maybe.
Jack> Paints.
Jack> Buy some new jammies for the trip! :-)
mariachi> I trusted what I felt that night
mariachi> and explored my body, allowed myself to do what it was
mariachi> I felt, without feeling I HAD to do anything 'by the book' so
mariachi> to speak.
Jack> PERFECT.
mariachi> re. once a month/ book/ journal - definitely hearing you.
Jack> Yeah man, we need more material from you! LOL :-)
mariachi> more material?
Jack> LOL. Just want to hear the good things that will happen for you when you give that to yourself.
mariachi> ah, I get it. I look forward to those good things too
Jack> Hey mariachi, say hi to eyes188.
mariachi> hey eyes188, hows it going?
Jack> Eyes, welcome back, say hi to mariachi who's typing from Down Under.
Eyes188> yo!
Eyes188> I'm sorry for your loss
mariachi> Do you mean Steve Irwin?
Eyes188> Yeah, I liked him
mariachi> Yeah, He certainly had a passion for life!
Jack> What brings you back in channel tonight Eyes?
Jack> RE: Steve, yeah a sad loss. He gave a lot to people. :-(
mariachi> That's exactly it - he gave a lot to people worldwide.
Eyes188> Had some time so I'm just messing around
Jack> Did you have a question or comment Eyes? No biggie either way. :-)
Jack> I think mariachi and I were about wrapped up for tonight, and by the same token I want
Jack> to make sure you have your questions answered, as best as I can help you.
Eyes188> na, not really
Jack> Ok... How bout you mariachi? Gotta game plan it seems, eh?
mariachi> yeah - certainly have. Thanks again
Jack> You're VERY welcome! It's great for you to check back in. I hope it'll be more often again. You bring such a great vibe with you!
mariachi> Thank you for your kind words
Jack> My pleasure, M! Have a great week.
mariachi> Hopefully next time I will have had a time out as we discussed.
mariachi> You too Jack!
Jack> You too Eyes, and thanks for your hard work tonight!
Eyes188> You bet. See ya
Jack> Ta!
Session Close: Thu Sep 07 20:37:19 2006