* Laly, Drew, Sabifinder, Zeitgeist, and Marty join Jack for a discussion on counseling, early Echo Effects, and stronger Echo Effects with practice.
* Laly has taken the step to make an appointment with a counselor.
* Sabifinder has practiced a few times but is disappointed that he has not reached orgasms through the Key Sound. Jack and Laly counsel patience and note that it takes time to awaken the erotic energy and striving for orgasm can actually delay progress.
* Zeitgeist who has been practicing for 7 months reports good Echo Effects
* Marty has had several sessions with his counselor and discusses his progress.

Session Start: Sat Aug 19 12:03:04 2006
Drew> Hey Bro!
Laly> hi Jack .
Jack> Hey Drew! Hi Laly!
Jack> CONGRATULATIONS on taking another BIG recovery step on your own behalf!
Laly> awww... thanks JAck.
Jack> You are VERY welcome Laly!
Drew> Oh, I thought you were talking to me! ;-)
Laly> it is the mind noise that having a hard time dealing/working thru right now.
Jack> I am, that too, Drew! ;-)
Laly> sorry, may have been
Jack> nope
Jack> It's yours Laly, all yours!
Laly> didn't mention who he was talking to :P.
Laly> lol.
Jack> AND yours too Drew!
Jack> Big steps for BOTH of you!!!
Laly> nice to know that people care Jack.
Jack> Yeah I hear ya Laly, I feel the very same way. :-)
Laly> even with the small steps- am taking it myself- to care about me now.
Laly> for a long didn't care at all.
Laly> to go from a cold, dark world to one of immense love, light and pure resounding joy is very uplifting.
Jack> :-)
Laly> as I had posted last night
Laly> feels a little like a terror at the gate feeling
Jack> EXACTLY!
Drew> That makes a GREAT deal of sense.
Jack> I also refer to them as Fu Dogs.
Laly> at that doorway - ready to go thru, but also a lil scared at what lies beyond too
Drew> It's FREEDOM, Laly!
Jack> Yep those Fu Dogs can be a little scary: http://www.fengshuitips.co.uk/fu_dogs.htm
Laly> oh - gonna make me cry
Drew> I do NOT have that kinda power!
Jack> Laly, imho you're doin' great!
Laly> *sniffles and smiles
Laly> knowing that I am not alone is dealing/working through the issues is a great feeling
Laly> a sigh of relief almost
Jack> For sure! Learning how to manifest authentic allies who support your continuing evolution is a great goal.
Drew> Ooh, "I" am really good at that! :-)
Laly> uh huh- especially for the one person who refused to let me give up
Drew> Hi ZG!
Jack> Welcome back Z!
zeitgeist> guten abend meinen Damen und Herren!
Laly> hi z
zeitgeist> Please continue, nice to see you all!
Drew> Guten tag
zeitgeist> :-))
Jack> Tschuss!
Laly> HUGS z
zeitgeist> HUGGSSSS
Laly> great posts Z!
zeitgeist> ty! 4u!
Jack> Laly and Drew, would you pls recap a bit for zeit re: tonite's chat so far? (I also emailed him a transcript of chat so far).
Laly> sure.. Z- was just telling about my appointment I finally made to seek counseling
Laly> just
Laly> I see her next week
Laly> and mentioned that I feel like a lil terror at the gate feelings have arose
zeitgeist> good 4 you!
Laly> thanks
Laly> hi sabiFinder
Jack> Yeah Terror at the Gates aka Fu Dogs are often signs of a significant growth threshold approaching. :-)
zeitgeist> welcome
Jack> Welcome sabi!
Drew> HI Sabi
Laly> my heart is pounding BUT I am smiling right now.
Jack> Where are you typing from (if you feel ok to share).
SabiFinder> Hello drew, jack jackmgr, Laly & zeitgeist. I type from Berkeley, California
Laly> welcome.
Jack> laly - replace that BUT with an AND and retype the line and notice the difference in how you feel.
Laly> my heart is pounding AND I am smiling right now.
Jack> Ahhhh Berzerkly - I have fond memories... :-)
Jack> yeah Laly, any diff?
Jack> ahem, what diff?
Laly> mmm yeah- bands of blue energy
Laly> and tears
SabiFinder> I am really new to this. (1. chatrooms) and 2nd Key Sound work. Have practiced so far only a view times
Jack> How r u doin Laly?
Laly> that is great- welcome- how is it going for u sabi?
Laly> great jack- love that energy spike
Jack> :-)
SabiFinder> And I am sensing the potential. I experienced a broadening and widening of my pleasure container. AND I also
SabiFinder> do not reach any orgasms through the Key Sound. It seems to broaden and broaden and broaden, but not to reach that sweet orgasmic plateau.
Jack> All in good time, sabi.
Laly> sabi- for me..when I first started
Laly> if I may?
Laly> with my practices- my goal was never about reaching orgasmic peaks or plateaus
Laly> but listening to my body and how it was responding to the KS
SabiFinder> I do understand. I am also very much in contact with a part of me that really really wants IT NOW. :>
Laly> by setting limits to practice- i.e. only to reach orgasmic plateau
Laly> patience with yourself
Laly> Sabi = ok?
Laly> with that statement you just made sabi-
Jack> Sabi, it's the wanting it NOW that is DELAYING your being able to relax ENOUGH to OPEN to the bigger feelings... It
Jack> takes some time and PRACTICE TIME and time BETWEEN practice times for your erotic system to awaken in this way.
Laly> ok got to get back to work - .
SabiFinder> I am completely familiar with what you are saying. don't want to waste your time at all. I just wanted to introduce myself by letting you know where I am right now. Thanks
Jack> Great! Thanks for introducing yourself! :-)
Laly> sabi- never think that coming here is a waste of time
SabiFinder> appreciate it.
Laly> we are here for you, with you and will always be here
SabiFinder> I hope not.
SabiFinder> :>
Jack> Bye for now, laly. Thanks for being here today, and for continuing to use your Forum blogging as a bookend as well!
Laly> ok - take are ya all... good luck sabi HUGSS.
Laly> I will jack thanks :_).
Jack> :-)
Jack> Ok! The Talking Stick is available. Who has a comment, question, or something you'd like to share?
zeitgeist> shall I go next h'mm?
zeitgeist> ok... I'll run with it
zeitgeist> hi marty...
zeitgeist> so practice so far...
Marty> Hi Hello there!
Jack> Welcome Marty!
zeitgeist> I've got some GOOD feelings as written in the 'blog'...
zeitgeist> (pause)
Marty> Thx J
Jack> YEAH please share what's been happening, zeit!
zeitgeist> ok so...
zeitgeist> HIGH energy levels
zeitgeist> some lovely echo effects and not quite orgasmic intensity yet...
zeitgeist> a REALLY resonant key sooooound
zeitgeist> my body seems to have attuned to the sound so
zeitgeist> when I do the first part...
zeitgeist> I can feel the resonance throughout my body from my feet to
zeitgeist> my head
zeitgeist> and when I roll into the second part of the sound
zeitgeist> then some of those pre orgasmic yet still sexual feelings
zeitgeist> make themselves felt on different parts of my body...
zeitgeist> and in different s
zeitgeist> subtle ways of feelings too
zeitgeist> AND
zeitgeist> the newest feelings
zeitgeist> are in the head - a sort of
zeitgeist> 'off balance' sinking sort of way
zeitgeist> not unpleasant at all
zeitgeist> and waiting for whatever happens next...
zeitgeist> and whenever...
zeitgeist> so cool so far
zeitgeist> that's it - for now :-)
zeitgeist> I hope that
zeitgeist> these effects mirror those whom 'have gone before'...
zeitgeist> .
zeitgeist> that it!
Marty> sounds like progress !!
Marty> Can I ask how long you have been actively practicing?
zeitgeist> well, I had a look
zeitgeist> and I picked up the .pdf file on 28th Jan
zeitgeist> so about 7 months
zeitgeist> AND the journey has been worth ALL the time...
SabiFinder> 7 months? Oh, that sounds great to me. I am just practicing since barely one week/
SabiFinder> question: what is the structure of this conversation? are we talking all together or is each person talking to Jack?
Marty> to answer Sabi - all Q's are welcome. We usually take it in turns to talk.
Marty> first person to arrive gets to start etc.
zeitgeist> if you read my blog on the forum
zeitgeist> I had a few furballs along the way...
zeitgeist> so the time is DEFINITELY worth it
Marty> I got them too
Marty> I believe it too.
zeitgeist> take it as it comes...
zeitgeist> SLOWLY
zeitgeist> my biggest tip is:
zeitgeist> Quieten that mind noise:
Marty> From what all people here say about it who have experienced the breakthroughs
Marty> ah yes the chattering monkey
zeitgeist> ''Was THAT it??? huh??? etc. etc
zeitgeist> listen to the body...
zeitgeist> rather than the head
Marty> ok sure , patience
zeitgeist> sure
Marty> yes body is the guide right?
zeitgeist> yes
zeitgeist> it knows
zeitgeist> that part of you
zeitgeist> knows. let it
Marty> yes I hear - allow- quite a lot here
Marty> lol
zeitgeist> allow... accept surrender
SabiFinder> zeitgeist, are you practicing alone or with partner/s?
zeitgeist> alein so to speak
Marty> when learning it is advised to start solo
Jack> The presence or absence and relative intensity of the SPONTANEOUS Echo Effects is like the radio beam for your inner compass.
Jack> Yeah I agree w/ Marty -
Marty> absence'?
Jack> relieves you any performance issues.
Jack> Yeah re: absence...
Jack> if the Echo Effects fade, it's like you're drifting off the signal line.
Marty> ah right I get it ok Thx
Marty> and you might be forcing or impatient or something else right?
Jack> It's important also to know that even when
Jack> you're doing everything "right" it's the nature of most if not all natural systems
Jack> to vary in amplitude. That is the Echo Effects increase and decrease
Jack> of their own nature
Marty> yes - like tide?
Jack> EXACTLY.
Marty> so zeitgeist is doing well
Jack> Sabi,
SabiFinder> Yes
Jack> one common trap esp
Jack> in early days is to try to chase after the feelings.
Jack> Note I said that's a trap. We're
Jack> very used to "making ourself come" etc.
Jack> but this is ALLOWING our body's SPONTANEOUS erotic responses to awaken.
Marty> that is very different and can take a bit of will power and discipline to let go an allow things to happen that don't necessarily respond to our control
Marty> What u think Jack
Jack> Zeit you very beautifully described that Zone of Anticipation!
zeitgeist> :-) why ty!
SabiFinder> That's why I love to work with a partner. Helps me a lot
Jack> Like you KNOW something is stirring... Like waiting for the arrival of a lover. Hot!
SabiFinder> Then I can let go and experiment and my partner makes sure we stay in the context
Jack> If that works for you and for your partner, that's great!
SabiFinder> in the context of anticipation
Jack> Yes!
Jack> Are you saying that you prefer ALL of your practice of this to be with a partner?
SabiFinder> No, not at all.
Jack> k. Just wondering.
SabiFinder> I am just very thankful for the loving help. Because I have a whole truckload of furballs
SabiFinder> Like for examples fears of becoming too "powerful"
Jack> Yeah the shared practice, esp once you find your own center, is VERY hot imho.
Jack> I hear you Sabi, and I really applaud your being SENSITIVE to that boundary
SabiFinder> Well, my partner and I met years ago not in order to establish a "normal" relationship
SabiFinder> but to establish a mutual practice of tantra and everything else that evolved from that
Jack> Wonderful!
SabiFinder> and here we are now, just recently discovered your work - just on time
SabiFinder> I am a sexological bodyworker, which is a "new" vocation, certified by the state of CA and I
SabiFinder> sensed deep within myself that there must be more than Kegels and breathing and all the ten thousand wonderful things
SabiFinder> I learned from my great teachers.
SabiFinder> So, while I am a total beginner
SabiFinder> I sense that the Key Sound might be the key
SabiFinder> to something very pure and alive in ourselves.
SabiFinder> Like those animals deep down in the sea
SabiFinder> forgive my English...I speak German originally
SabiFinder> those see anemones, that contract and expand on the slightest touch
Marty> spontaneous
SabiFinder> yes, effortless
Jack> and exquisitely sensitized...
Marty> and amazingly alive
SabiFinder> Yes, I guess those see anemones are not neurotic.
Jack> Sabi what a beautifully evocative description!
Jack> I think your English is working just fine! :-)
zeitgeist> schön
SabiFinder> thank you. In German it might be a ballade. I am a little dramatic
SabiFinder> Toll, Zeitgeist!
Jack> LOL! The world needs a little joyful drama!
zeitgeist> freude machen
SabiFinder> Jack, are you planning on creating a DVD? Where people actually could see and hear?
Jack> Yes, once I locate people who are comfortable being on camera in a tasteful setting and who have authentically learned the skill.
SabiFinder> That's great to hear. I am in the early planning stages of creating a DVD of my work - working with a person who has sexual abuse in her history.
Jack> Ideally it would be great to document the entire learning sequence - a bigger job of course. :-)
Jack> Feel free to communicate with me more about it at my email too, if you like.
SabiFinder> I think so too. And sure, ..
Jack> danke :-)
Jack> Sabi,
Jack> that description
Jack> of the exquisite sensitivity of the sea anemone was quite evocative of the peak experiences
Marty> re sexual abuse - you can read the articles in the forum from people who practice the Key sound who have experienced abuse . They tell how it works for them
Jack> of this practice.
Jack> That would include an 11-month record by Ms. laly.
SabiFinder> Thank you Marty for the tip!
Jack> It's a pleasure to have you here Sabi!
Marty> glad to help
Jack> u2 Marty!
Marty> Why thank you Jack
SabiFinder> Oh, thank you. Let's do a Key Sound together?
Marty> haha
Marty> hmmm
Jack> That's a different negotiation. :-)
zeitgeist> &-o
Marty> This is not quite like tantra mantra for me
SabiFinder> really?
Jack> I like to keep this chat ABOUT the process, so that it stays accessible to newbies and people who may be at various stages of recovery.
Marty> What I mean it is not something I would share without being comfortable with it for myself first
SabiFinder> I see.
zeitgeist> about the process and newbies, I recommend looking through the forum at past chats
Marty> good directing - keeping us focused on ourself
Jack> Yeah, that's the whole idea of learning to become more comfortable with oneself - solo - and discover what that's like - for many that's a very new experience.
Marty> solo is the only experience I have had actually
Jack> These are all guidelines and suggestions of course, based on what has worked for many.
Jack> How as that been working for you Marty?
Marty> well I have been now 6 times with my counselor
Jack> [good suggestion zeit re: newbies looking thru past chats! ]
Marty> and I am coming to notice
Marty> well I have sort of known
Marty> I have a history of being in my mind a lot
Marty> also worrying a lot about what other people think
Marty> what criticism may come my way
Marty> what disapproval
Marty> also I have felt very afraid of women being angry with me if I do something I don't kn0ow what to anger them
Marty> so a lot of tension in my relation to other people
Marty> fear and tightness
Marty> not feeling able to explore or even know what I want
Marty> without first compromising
Marty> checking with others
Marty> I need to find my voice
Marty> this is what my throat problem is related to I guess
Jack> You are off to a VERY great start by getting professional help, AND by giving VOICE in a supportive setting, to stuff that may spend most of its time in your head! :-)
Marty> hmm yes
Jack> AND you have the EMOTIONAL COURAGE to share your vulnerability here, for example.
Marty> I have difficulty recognizing emotions
Marty> because
Marty> I have not
Marty> ehm
Marty> been in my body
Marty> been so much in my mind looking out for something that
Marty> could be hutful coming my way
Marty> hurtful
Marty> or else avoiding feeling
Marty> But I have been searching for help through many ways because I have felt a need to get help
Marty> Feeling comfortable with masculinity is something I deal with too
Marty> Any thoughts anyone like to share
Marty> ?
Marty> I have picked up the idea that women think we men are PIGS
Marty> horrible an revolting people
Marty> not even people
Jack> I REALLY applaud your COURAGE and your SELF-LOVE (the healthy kind!) for getting the professional help you need!!!
Marty> so maybe understandably I have not dared enter a relationship
Jack> Yeah there's a LOT of gender-poison that gets pumped into our psyches from our culture.
Marty> Darn right re - poison
Marty> Thanks Jack. when you have it courageous things are easy
Jack> The very important thing is Marty, that you HAVE entered into a relationship - with your counselor. It's not a love relationship of course, but due
Jack> to the nature of why you're there, it's also a safe place - provided the counselor is competent and authentic - for you to acquire skills for finding and helping
Jack> co-create an intimate love relationship. Of course, healing those emotional furballs just opens up all of the energy channels - opens the heart - to be able
Jack> to RECOGNIZE healthy love and to FEEL it when it comes.
Marty> safe. yes I did start crying when I was telling her about a memory. A start, cuz I have felt the need to cry quite a lot of times
Marty> Cool
Jack> Yeah that's great to be able to let it out in a safe place.
zeitgeist> amen..
zeitgeist> the start of recognizing feelings..
Jack> I'm also VERY glad to hear that you are working with a woman, since she can give you some great reality checking from a woman's point of view.
Marty> oh good lol
Marty> yes I guess I do feel - just don't maybe use words to identify them
zeitgeist> ...yet!
Marty> and if words are not used or spoken we can easily or more easily forget
Marty> and so think we never felt
Jack> Also pls let her know she is welcome to contact me re: what this is about and I will share the info with her so she may be better aware of how this might integrate with
Jack> the rest of your personal growth program.
Marty> I gave her the pdf
Marty> she is studying it.
Jack> Great! I'm happy
Jack> to answer any questions she may have.
Marty> interested and positive
Marty> I will pass it on
Marty> You are a sound Man Jack
Marty> sound as in solid
Jack> And to the extent you feel
Jack> safe doing so in this public Forum using your pseudonym, I hope you'll
Jack> blog the steps of your discoveries in your Key Sound practice.
Marty> blog hmm
Marty> I will share what I like when I feel I want to I think yes
Marty> usually when I find something amazing that I think can help others
Marty> I am longing to share it so I can get good feedback on how others see it
Marty> so yes
Marty> One thing I mentioned to laly was Omega 3 fats and Udo's Oil
Jack> Thanks Marty, yeah just whatever feels ok for you to share.
Drew> Udo's Oil... Magic stuff!
Jack> Oh yeah my wife got some Udo's Oil too, when I told her! :-)
zeitgeist> what is this???
Marty> I feel a bit like I am taking up peoples talk time because I have not been trying the Key Sound lately
Jack> Marty you should be a web rep for Udo's oil! LOL!
SabiFinder> they are talking nutrition
zeitgeist> k
Jack> very good point Sabi LOL!
Marty> hey that's an idea I just need to finish reading his huge book first
Marty> Essential Fatty acids
Jack> Whew.
Drew> http://www.udoerasmus.com/products/oil_blend.htm
Jack> Thanks Drew!
zeitgeist> ty Drew!
Drew> YW
Marty> That are deficient in most western diets due to over processed foods
Marty> Cool Drew
Marty> I have found my hands getting softer and wrinkles gone from my eyes ... anyway anyone else wanna talk
Jack> BTW any more questions or comments about the Key Sound practice for today? And by all means post all of your favorite resources to the Forum! I plan to have an area on the main site where they're all catalogued.
SabiFinder> I'm getting hungry. Going to have some very very late breakfast now. With virgin coconut oil and raw organic chocolate mmmhmmm bye
Marty> bye sabi cya round good luck
Marty> good idea jack
Jack> OMG Sabi! Thanks
zeitgeist> a special thanks to Drew, for his various posts on the forum, I've noticed during my trawls,btw
Marty> Drew is a dude!
Jack> A Kewl Dewd!
Jack> And Dear Friend!
Marty> an I failed my driving test again !!!
Marty> sorry I am blabbering again
Jack> LOL... Anything else for today, or are we wrapped?
Marty> so if I go to try this KS, Jack
zeitgeist> nite nite from the UK then!
Jack> ta zeit!
Marty> I will listen over to you demonstration CD
Marty> and copy that I think
Jack> yeah good idea Marty and take it very slowly... don't force yourself in any way,
Marty> good Zeitgeist take care
zeitgeist> bis später!
Jack> and if/when emotional furballs come up PAUSE the practice and address them with
Marty> yes ok - now I need to find space and time
zeitgeist> marty, all the best with your continuing practice! Nite!
Jack> your counselor. This practice can help you i.d. opportunities for personal evolution that way.
Marty> ok thanks I may well give it a try in near future.
Marty> Thanks Zetig nite
Jack> When the spirit moves ye, Marty - take care.
Marty> ok Thanks for being here
Marty> good night
Jack> Cheers zeit, have a good one! You too Drew!
Marty> bye Drew LAter man
Drew> Bye
Jack> You're very welcome Marty. Thank YOU for being here too!
Jack> Ok guys see you in the Forum. BIG HUGS, BROTHERS!
Session Close: Sat Aug 19 13:56:51 2006