• Laly and Kinkybc join Jack for a discussion of KSMO and recovery from sexual abuse, early Echo Effects and concerns about diabetes and KSMO practice.
• Laly and Jack discuss the relationship between her practice of KSMO and her recovery from the effects of sexual abuse.
• newbie Kinkybc reports early Echo Effects after 3 practice sessions.
• Kinkybc has some health concerns relating to the practice because of diabetes. He reports some burning sensations during practice. Jack has not heard of this issue coming up before but suggests Kinkybc consult with his doctor.

Session Start: Thu Jul 13 18:00:24 2006
Jack> Hi Laly!
Laly> HI Jack
Jack> How has your week been?
Laly> was sick again
Laly> just now getting back into swing of things- energy wise.
Jack> Oh I'm really sorry to hear that!
Jack> I'm glad to hear you're feeling better now. :-)
Laly> thanks
Laly> so been digging through forum and posting/updating things,
Jack> That's great! Thanks!
Jack> What would you like to discuss this evening?
Laly> Well -in regards to my umm - non-existent practice
Laly> kindas wanna say I miss it .
Jack> Yeah I can understand THAT!
Laly> so may take the "bull by the horns" so to speak
Laly> and listen to 20 min KS cd
Laly> tomorrow- am off work.
Jack> I hope that in doing so you'll keep in mind the Prime Directive: Be Gentle with Yourself
Jack> :-)
Laly> I will-
Laly> still having hard time getting myself to stroke the 1-2 gentle caresses
Jack> instead of?
Laly> none at all.
Laly> I stroke the upper and inner thighs
Laly> almost a tickle sensation.
Laly> light and faint.
Jack> Are you saying that that kind of touch is uncomfortable for you?
Laly> i think in my mind - it "feels" that way.
Laly> coming from the abuse issue
Jack> Yeah - that's real important to address and to GIVE VOICE to! Way to go. What would you like to do instead that might feel more comfortable?
Laly> well- had some good success without the caressing
Jack> do you think you might enjoy exploring that path more for now ?
Laly> but I feel comfortable caressing across the lower pelvic region
Laly> it is nice- but I feel like am stepping further away from KS and KSMO when I do.
Jack> Why is that?
Laly> well - mind trap aside...
Jack> :-)
Laly> lol.
Laly> I guess I feel "guilt" that I am walking alongside protocol, not really "following" it
Laly> per se.
Jack> By not doing what?
Laly> well .. being able to achieve great heartgasms/orgasms
Laly> without stimulation needed.
Laly> warranted.
Jack> In other words, by... ?
Laly> sheer opening of my heart and soul energy.
Laly> and use of Key Sound.
Laly> use of both to accentuate the pleasure levels.
Jack> Ok. Thanks. What part of your practice do you feel is... alongside protocol rather than following it?
Laly> just the fact that I can so easily sometimes with just the opening of my heart chakra energy
Laly> have such sacred orgasms or heartgasm
Laly> and bliss tears
Laly> all without any stimulation at all.
Jack> Are those feelings comfortable for you to access in that way?
Laly> yes.
Laly> I guess the guilt comes from
Laly> seeing how others struggle in their practices
Laly> for whatever reasons
Laly> and there are those of us that it comes "easily" to.
Jack> Why are you responsible for their challenges during their learning process... ?
Laly> I do not know.
Laly> just feel what they feel - cause been there.
Laly> or 'SYMPATHIZE"
Laly> I guess is word I want to use.
Laly> cause I care.
Jack> Yeah that seems like the perfect word Laly to sympathize - sym path - shared pathos - shared struggles - the thing is
Jack> I hear a lot of people thanking you for the support you give them - and I can
Jack> appreciate also that some of that can touch perhaps-as-yet-not-fully-healed hurts within you...
Laly> uh huh.
Jack> I really hope that you'll in-joy those wonder full feelings you are learning to open to and direct them to the wounded parts and the parts that are ready to grow and move on with your life - your blooming .
Laly> the past 11 months have been the most wondrous .
Jack> I am very glad to hear that Laly!
Laly> oh yes...especially in setting the anger issues aside.
Laly> forgiving myself.
Jack> MOST DEFINITELY!!! WAY TO GROW !!!
Jack> And I am also very grateful for all of the nurturance and support you've given people in this community during that time!
Laly> and for me as well- was a healing process
Laly> to show that there CAN be life lived to the fullest
Laly> even after something that horrid happening.
Laly> no longer feel dirty or ashamed
Laly> but say I was abused and lived
Laly> and enjoy pleasure once more
Laly> .
Laly> hi kinky
kinkybc> Hey guys!
Jack> That's REALLY GREAT Laly! I also want to say:
Jack> Laly what a POWERFUL GIFT YOU HAVE TO GIVE especially to others who have suffered similar fates - that gift is YOUR STORY - and the way you share ... Whew.
Laly> thanks- but I felt if I was going to tell the tale- I didn't wanna mince words
Laly> or feelings.
Jack> Welcome kbc! Laly has just been sharing ( Laly pls fine tune or correct this ) the relationship between her practice of the Multiple Orgasm Trigger
Jack> and recovering from the effects of childhood sexual abuse and date rape ( as an adult ? - Is that right Laly ? )
Laly> at 16 - but close nuff.
kinkybc> That's good. I logged in a little late - maybe I'll catch up later by reading a transcript.
Jack> Yes definitely! Glad you could make it tonight. And
Jack> we'll be happy to answer any questions we can
Jack> in a few minutes here. We follow the Talking Stick
Jack> tradition of one person basically sharing their issue progress questions successes etc. then passing
Jack> the Talking Stick to the next.
kinkybc> Cool. Well, I don't want to interrupt any good conversation. I just started this practice, third session actually.
Jack> Definitely want to hear how it's going kbc! Laly, I am
Jack> REALLY REALLY grateful about your being relieved of those feelings - that spell really - of you being the dirty one of the one who should be ashamed .
Laly> thanks-was not easy to dispel them believe me.
Jack> Yeah and that makes the VICTORY ALL THE SWEETER !
kinkybc> Well, I wish I had something more to share... I only started to feel weird sensations that I am not sure are caused by the Key Sound or just by the practice of touching with breathing more carefully.
Laly> kinky - only started to feel weird sensations?
Laly> care to describe or talk about that?
kinkybc> yeah, sure.
Laly> go ahead- u have the stick
Laly> .
Jack> Nice catch, kink !
kinkybc> I just felt like strange pleasurable sensations traveling in weird places around the groin area, rather than in the genitals.
[kinkybc:#Multiple_orgasm_how IMAGE] EMOTIONS/smile.gif
kinkybc> then it felt like my genitals were like on fire, with way way less pain than that sounds like of course.
kinkybc> the sensations were weak, but weird
Jack> You mean that good kinda fire ?
Jack> By weird do you mean new different unexpected ?
Jack> Or icky ?
kinkybc> Well, I don't know. I never felt it before. It definitely was new and different and unexpected, not icky, but something I wouldn't associate...
kinkybc> with sexual stimulation.
Jack> BINGO !!!
Jack> LOL
kinkybc> that's good?
Jack> Laly?
Laly> yes?
Laly> that is good
kinkybc> oh ok. Well then I have made progress on the third try! sounds good to me.
Laly> way to go kinky
kinkybc> I think I am going to be a slow learner.
Laly> hey hey stop right there
[kinkybc:#Multiple_orgasm_how IMAGE] EMOTIONS/surprise.gif
Jack> Right on Laly !
Laly> mind trap- right jack?
Jack> What do YOU think - kink ?
kinkybc> oh I saw 'mind traps' in your email. well, yeah, I guess thinking negatively does affect stuff totally.
kinkybc> that's what you mean?
Jack> Sounds about right to me ! :-)
Laly> uh huh
kinkybc> kay
Jack> Does have a certain ring to it imho :-)
Laly> just shift the mind into 'neutral'.
Laly> "allow" yourself to feel whatever.
Laly> tis not a race- to rush or hurry anything.
kinkybc> OK. I go into neutral pretty naturally, when I am not second guessing. I guess the plan should be to enjoy whatever along the way.
Laly> ding ding ding - by george I think he's got it .
Laly> lol.
kinkybc> It's hard not to practice for more than 20 minutes
kinkybc> thanks Laly
Laly> your welcome.
Jack> Yeah ! Like you've already noticed by your comments about unprecedented - not associated in past experience with stimulation etc. it's a NEW MAP - NEW REALMS OF FEELING
Jack> Those little twinges and tingles and such and VERY significantly this early - that
Jack> sensation of the energy MOVING up and down or wherever through your body -
kinkybc> Well, I don't really have questions, I'm too new ...yeah, I was hoping that was some weird startup feeling as you body made adjustments to the 'energy pathways' or whatever for pleasurable energy, and not some weird reaction because I was too far unhealthy to practice.
Jack> that's the leading edge of the WAVES :-)
kinkybc> ok cool!
Jack> kbc is health a concern for you ? Do you have medical issues that might be of concern in such a practice ?
Jack> BTW you are free to say "pass" or no comment or whatever in response to ANY questions asked here.
kinkybc> I just thought it might be a physical reaction caused by mild diabetes - I am not severe enough to take meds, but I also lost most of my sexual interest when quite young, not 100 % sure why, had issues different than you Laly, but some similar ones too. just figured I was messed up somehow.
kinkybc> sorry, don't type toooooo fast
Jack> No worries! Take all the time you need - to type - to learn this practice - that's a fairly prevalent theme here , eh Laly ? :-)
Laly> yep.
kinkybc> cool
Jack> :-)
Laly> all that is needed is patience
Laly> and understanding - which we all
kinkybc> Well Laly, maybe you should be teaching this too , with jack
Laly> IS BLUSHING.
Jack> kbc - please - if you want to of course - tell us a little more
Jack> about these early Echo Effects .
Jack> kink , search Laly in the search box
Jack> in the upper right hand corner of any of the Live Forum pages
Jack> and you'll get a list of links to Laly's teachin and sharing and mo' teaching !
kinkybc> well, umm.. I did try a few times before when I received the first cd from amazon.. you might remember talking to me today Jack,
kinkybc> I was the guy who couldn't get the download, so I called you up and spoke to you directly. that's ok
Jack> Right !!! LOL Glad we got that worked out and look what's happening for you already !
Laly> .
kinkybc> yeah, only had mild sensations that I weren't sure of, sensations of pleasure that occurred for longer than they should have, like when you stimulated while doing the Key Sound, they seemed to stay around longer than usual, I just thought maybe it was because I was breathing in more oxygen, and not because I had managed to get the Key Sounds working properly yet.
Jack> It CAN be pretty disorienting at first especially because we're opening
Jack> energy gateways that DO seem to somehow feel different or we're opening them in a new way
Jack> or at least further than in most people's prior experience .
Jack> kink that may be the case , what you're saying about the breathing -
kinkybc> yeah, I thought so, not sure it was the Key Sound.
Jack> Laly would you care to reprise for kink and the readers the hand on the chest way
Jack> of self calibrating
Jack> the Key Sound ?
Jack> I would say yes they are indeed Echo Effects that typically occur during the protocol. Time will tell as you continue
Jack> to practice .
Laly> k-for me kinky..what Jack means as a way to "feel" if you are doing the KS correctly
Laly> I lay my non-stimulation hand on my chest just above the heart
kinkybc> ok
Laly> and when I make a KS- I feel a rumble in the chest
kinkybc> that's the key? the rumbling, echoing sound?
Laly> should feel like when u bang 2 sticks together
Jack> ???
Laly> sorry
Laly> a vibration of the cords.
Jack> the vocal cords ?
Laly> yes
Jack> Yeah cuz they're so relaxed .
Laly> a better reference I can give
kinkybc> so this rumbling can occur through the chest? but easier to feel above the heart
Jack> Since the sound is so deep - BUT NOT FORCEDLY deep - no strain - just as deep as you can go WHILE REMAINING RELAXED ESPECIALLY IN YOUR THROAT .
Laly> yes- can be better felt there
kinkybc> ok cool
kinkybc> ok that relaxation thing, it's hard to remember. it's like trying to remember to breath while doing pushups
Laly> concentrating too hard sounds like.
Jack> The Key Sound plus the relaxation BUILDS AROUSAL WITHOUT STIMULATION other than the TEASE .
Jack> LOL kink that breath while doing pushups that's a good one !
Laly> uh huh
Laly> especially 1 handed push-ups I do.
Jack> If you were straining like that during your 20 min practice session we gotta talk !
Laly> .
kinkybc> yeah, concentrating too hard. Well, it's pretty true
kinkybc> ha ha!
Jack> It's really a challenge to learn to CONTINUE TO RELAX and RE-RELAX as arousal continues to build .
Laly> may I suggest a little meditative music before practice
Jack> GOOD REMINDER LALY THANKS !
kinkybc> really? I was just wondering if I should ask about relaxation exercises before.
Laly> is what I use before mine- allows me to relax my mind
kinkybc> what about relaxation exercises? like tense and relax stuff?
Laly> check the forum under other resources
Jack> and it's a good time to slow down your breathing.
kinkybc> kay
Jack> Just explore the releasing without the tensing at least once in a while to check the difference and learn what if
kinkybc> Well, is there any Yoga or breathing that brings the energy to greater strength?
Laly> I use 3-4 different meditation cds- with and without music.
Laly> oh yes kinky= there is.
kinkybc> ok will do with that relaxing tensing thing
kinkybc> cool
Jack> anything might be there for you - that is via the path of attending to relaxing through breathing and of course Laly's suggestions are great additions too !
Jack> kink please say a little more about what the actual sensations felt like if you would ?
kinkybc> ok... I am
kinkybc> ok
kinkybc> I had this pleasurable feeling like the feeling you usually get through your genitals and such, only it was off to the right side ...
kinkybc> and close to the perineum
kinkybc> and I felt this pain in that area earlier, which I think might be because I was pressing too hard
Jack> Oh yeah I don't recommend doing anything too hard !
Jack> That may be a bit of a residual pattern from previous going for it kinds of arousal - building . :-)
Laly> more a feather stroke.
kinkybc> and then I felt the stimulation from the touching of the penis to last longer than usually.. it just sorta hanged around for several seconds longer, like my nerves were just too lazy to quit feeling good.
Jack> I LOVE that !!!
kinkybc> yeah, definitely, I was pushing.
Jack> But SOME part of you was
Jack> feeling TOO LAZY TO QUIT FEELING GOOD !!!
kinkybc> ok, but maybe it just sounds better than it felt, it was slight.
kinkybc> yeah
kinkybc> :-)
Jack> TUNE IN to THAT part BROTHA !!!
Laly> yep.
kinkybc> ok, can do. it was at least interesting enough to keep the practice not boring.
Jack> SLIGHT is RIGHT for this early in the practice .!
kinkybc> cool.
kinkybc> then the sorta burning feeling, which I hoped was my body getting ready try doing the Key Sound?
Jack> The important thing is that you did not fall into the trap of MISLABELING those subtle sensations as nothing or nothing much - slight - yes - definitely
Jack> at this early learning stage . But stay tuned INCLUDING BETWEEN SESSIONS for SPONTANEOUS twinges etc like this !
kinkybc> ok
kinkybc> hmm... I could use some of those at work... make the day go faster.
Jack> Not sure about the burning feeling . Pls say more about that.
kinkybc> ummm....
Jack> Well it's a sexual act - do you typically do sexual acts at work ?
Jack> Rhetorical question
Jack> no need for you to answer.
kinkybc> thanks
Laly> - I wasn't gonna say nothing jack
kinkybc> I am not going to do the Key Sound at work, just being silly
Laly> kinky- I have had Echo Effects occur while at work.
Jack> Yeah spontaneous can't be helped we just don't advocate cultivating
Jack> that energy in locations where there is not _informed_ adult mutual consent .
Laly> uh huh.
kinkybc> well, the burning sensation was odd, above all. just odd. so I think that was my subconscious way of telling me something? or maybe nuthin
kinkybc> Laly... I look forward to it.
Jack> :-)
Jack> Where was the burning sensation ?
kinkybc> yeah no problem, you can't do anything like that at work, even where I work.
Jack> LOL
kinkybc> the burning sensation was all over the scrotum and penis
Jack> Actual burning like uncomfortable ?
kinkybc> and it's not not not not any kind of VD! not uncomfortable, but like very strange, not painful enough to be a concern, just not painful enough to make me pay attention that something odd was happening.
kinkybc> rather than being distracted by it.
kinkybc> I thought really that it was maybe possibly the Key Sound interacting with diabetes?
Jack> First I've heard of this particular response - I'll be interested to know if it's transitory ( my hunch ) or what .
kinkybc> ok
Jack> Don't know about that . Actually let me give you a call in a day or two and we'll talk about that .
Jack> It's good to check in with your supervising MD if you're being treated for diabetes .
kinkybc> well, that's the whole thing. ok you can call me, but I will be working the next few days for 12 hour shifts, so I won't be available until next week. Today's my last day off.
kinkybc> ok. he
kinkybc> he
kinkybc> oops
kinkybc> he'll be happy I'm checking in
Jack> Glad you could make it tonight! Yes GOOD and pls let your MD know I'm
Jack> happy to answer any questions and provide him with a copy of my protocol etc. ok ?
kinkybc> ok. I could mention that. I tend to entertain him with my 'new age' stuff anyway.
Laly> kewl.
kinkybc> thanks for hosting this chat by the way.
Jack> Oh you bet ! Ten years this coming May ! :-)
Jack> And it's ALL HERE IN THE FORUM !
Laly> 1 yr next month for me .
Jack> Over 240 coaching chat transcripts alone.
kinkybc> oh, maybe I should have changed my nick to appear more presentable.
Jack> That is GREAT Laly !!!
kinkybc> good for you.
Jack> :-) No worries mate re nick . Big tent here - just behave or I'll ...
Jack> :-)
kinkybc> Heee Hee
Laly> lol.
kinkybc> Well it's nice talking to you both, I gotta be off. I hope you guys have a great night
Laly> u too kinky - welcome to the forums and to your new adventure .
Jack> Thanks kink you too It's great to meet you ! I hope you'll blog your experiences and any questions by starting a thread
Jack> in the Forum - the First Time Experiencing Conference is a good one .
Jack> Then definitely look forward to your return here as well !
kinkybc> thanks Laly. yeah I'll talk to you again sometime. ok, I will do that nigght guys!
Jack> Night !!!
Laly> nite.
Laly> that's it from me to Jack
Jack> I hear ya girl ! But this was sure another good one ! I'm really
Jack> glad to hear kbc is already noticing some clear
Jack> Echo Effects - we'll see about ckg with his doc re: the burning esp if it persists .
Laly> uh huh- kinda made me wonder if over-sensitized
Jack> I hope you have a wonder full week Laly !
Laly> back at ya HUGSS.
Jack> Very good point re: hypersensitivity !
Jack> u2 Laly Beeeg Hugggsss !!! :-)
Laly> .
Session Close: Thu Jul 13 19:34:54 2006