• Marty, Drew, Darwin, Laly, Roderick, and Horaldo_martinez join Jack for a discussion on seeking counseling, initial Echo Effects, spontaneous Echo Effects, and expressing pent up energy through the Key Sound.
• Marty, following advice given in a previous session has arranged to see a therapist to deal with his issues. Drew tells him that counseling has been essential to his KSMO practice.
• Darwin reports an orgasmic experience and feels he has made it through the gates. He describes how he enhances the pleasure through a chin motion when making the Key Sound.
• Darwin asks Jack for tips on getting further through the gates. Jack suggest relaxing and enjoying the practice and discourages chasing after the orgasm.
• Laly reports spontaneous new sensations and Echo Effects and a lot of energy after 11 months of practice. Jack congratulates her on her progress.
• Roderick says his Echo Effects have been subtle and thinks he may be looking for more warmth. Jack suggests there may be furballs present and suggests professional counseling may help.
• Roderick reports feeling the need to ejaculate during a session. Jack suggests instead using the Key Sound to release the built up energy.
• Horaldo_martinez reports getting strong Echo Effects but has some difficulty allowing himself to make the Key Sound due to issues about men being sensual. Jack notes this as an emotional furball due to cultural condition about men not feeling.

Session Start: Sat Jul 08 11:54:30 2006
Jack> You're the first one in the door... :-)
Marty> Hey there Jack good to be back
Marty> yup !
Marty> on time too I think
Jack> How's your practice been going?
Marty> well
Marty> last time we spoke you were encouraging me to seek a therapist
Marty> this is now done
Marty> have a time booked
Marty> that is progress I guess
Marty> I have not been practicing any KS
Jack> There is no doubt that that is progress... Congratulations on taking this
Jack> important action step on your own behalf.
Drew> Hey Jack!
Jack> Hey Drew, nice to see ya! Say hi to Marty.
Drew> Hi Marty!
Marty> Hiya Drew
Drew> I can't stay long... I have some errands to run.
Jack> OK, Drew, Marty which is sharing that he has booked a time with a therapist to begin dealing with some of the emotional furballs ... I have a hunch
Jack> That you may have a thought or two to share with him about that process :-)
Marty> I guess I just came to sit in an listen to all you more experienced guys speakin about lotsa orgasms
Marty> it is not quite usual !!!
Jack> Nuttin wrong with that, Marty! Drew can speak to that too.
Drew> :-)
Jack> ;-P
Drew> For me, 'counseling' has been an essential part of my KSMO journey...
Marty> ohyea?
Drew> YES!
Marty> I reckon it will be with me too
Marty> I have a lot of tension around this area
Marty> well a lot of tension period
Drew> I was already seeing a counselor prior to finding out about Jack's program
Drew> and it has been a great blessing to me that I've had someone to talk to regarding the feelings I've experiences along the path...
Drew> and also guidance in becoming more resourceful, vulnerable and 'open' to my own feeling experience.
Marty> ok
Marty> sorry to trouble with a superficial question are you male female..? etc?
Marty> I am sure that's true
Drew> Male
Marty> thanks
Marty> open is the thing
Drew> Yes, it is!
Jack> The axis.
Jack> The fulcrum...
Jack> The springboard...
Jack> :-)
Drew> LOL
Marty> right jack
Jack> Calmposting the emotional furballs helps you
Jack> open your HEART area (aka Heart Chakra ) to allow the energy to flow more easily.
Marty> but what is it to be open really ..it is very loose to describe
Marty> specifics ...
Jack> Imho it's not defined intellectually but EXPERIENTIALLY - VISCERALLY and yes OMG EMOTIONALLY.
Marty> I have heard of that
Marty> sure
Marty> would you describe exercise that help you to become aware of energy flow in this area?
Marty> the intellectual thing
Jack> It's particularly characteristic although not exclusively of the male gender in modern culture
Jack> To try to think your way through an experience before you actually HAVE that experience...
Jack> This gives you an opportunity to explore an alternative path to knowledge and to self-knowledge.
Marty> right I know it
Jack> Since Drew needs to leave I'd love to hear a little bit more from him about the relationship for him of counseling and his being able to open to this multiple orgasmic energy.
Marty> right on
Drew> LOL You ask the 'easy' questions, don't you, Jack!
Marty> lol
Jack> Naturellement... :-)
Jack> Nature ally .
Drew> In a way, it's hard to find mere words that would describe the process accurately...
Marty> would counseling give you a space to explore and discuss
Marty> things
Marty> that you would not other wise have an audience for
Drew> absolutely!
Drew> I'm VERY fortunate (In my opinion) to have a counselor who 'get's me'... and is VERY SKILLFUL
Marty> hey I want in
Drew> :-)
Marty> a good bond
Drew> Oh yes!
Marty> where you feel secure
Drew> yes... Because, the security you speak of is on the INSIDE!
Jack> VERY WELL SAID DREW !
Drew> So, you feel SECURE to FEEL... Feel you OWN FEELINGS!
Marty> ... you just need somehow a bit of help to come to realize this?
Marty> yes I get it
Marty> I do anyway
Drew> Perhaps it's a 'bit', perhaps it's a boat load... Who knows?
Jack> EXPERIENTIALLY ... BEFORE ... cognitively, intellectually.
Jack> That goes in Drew's top ten!
Jack> The bit / boatload !
Drew> I have a top ten? :-)
Jack> More like a top 100 .
Drew> Aww shucks!
Jack> :-)
Jack> Marty what else would you like to ask Drew b4 he has to depart for now ?
Marty> ten - 100 ??
Marty> well I don't know really
Marty> break throughs?
Jack> Good one !
Drew> What I've found/learned... Is that when I'm feeling insecure/fearful, it's because I'm 'disconnected' from MYSELF.
Marty> recently huge change in life??
Marty> right I get that
Marty> rather I have heard that idea
Jack> VERY IMPORTANT POINT by Drew !
Drew> When I realize this, I can use it as a 'signal' to reconnect with myself
Marty> yup
Jack> How do you reconnect?
Marty> good q
Jack> tnx
Drew> which means opening to what I'm FEELING in the moment
Jack> and how do you open ?
Jack> How do you effect that opening ?
Drew> Wow, I wish I knew! LOL
Jack> :-)
Jack> Is breathing involved ?
Marty> it is taking time to become aware
Drew> I know it's a cliche, but I get out of my head and into my heart!
Marty> I was thinking of breath too
Jack> Well done !
Drew> And, not unlike KSMO practice... Pay attention to the sensations in my body
Marty> moving your awareness inside your body more?
Drew> And yes, BREATHING!
Jack> SLOWLY :-)
Marty> belly breath?
Jack> No just a regular relaxing breath then another ...
Jack> Belly breaths happen AUTOMATICALLY when you're articulating the Key Sound correctly -
Marty> I never got that
Jack> You don't need to consciously try to do a belly breath - in fact that may be distracting .
Drew> What I've found is... Engaging myself in this way, the 'unpleasantness' ALWAYS passes... In other words, I NEW FEELING comes along!
Marty> but then I may have some hindrances
Marty> right interesting
Jack> DREW DIDJA SEE THAT WONDERFUL SLIP IN WHAT YOU SAID JUST NOW ?
Drew> YES, I did!!!!
Marty> would you agree that the unpleasantness ..
Jack> Nice gift from your subconscious I would say .
Drew> I meant to say 'a', I swear I did!
Drew> Yep
Jack> Somebody in there had a more important message to deliver to you and us !
Marty> alright
Marty> cool lol
Drew> Yes... That feeling does come from a place of SOLID IDENTITY.
Jack> I and I
Marty> I was gonna say yes
Drew> Calm, secure, peaceful, etc.
Jack> Wow Drew - you have really found your voice .
Marty> it feels more honest - the new you !
Marty> and the old unpleasant - sort of a lie
Drew> :-)
Drew> Let's just say it's an 'illusion'
Marty> yes sure
Marty> great
Marty> we slip into illusion so easily
Marty> most people are there and we follow them
Jack> MARTY NOW IT'S YOUR TURN TO SEE WHAT YOUR SUBCONSCIOUS IS TELLING YOU - SORE OF A LIE .
Marty> time to wake up
Drew> Perhaps it's ALL an illusion... :P
Jack> YEP.
Marty> ehm .. a sore lie?
Marty> I don't get it yet
Jack> Sore OF a lie ... self-deception or that by others is painful to us -
Marty> a lot of it is illusion certainly but we have solid identity somewhere right?
Jack> In this culture, we are very strongly conditioned to ignore or discount the so-called slips when in fact
Jack> They are actually hands from our subconscious attempting to communicate important information to us ... they are almost always relevant to its been discussed at the time .
Jack> Look at that! I meant to write hints and wrote hands - QED !
Marty> we are expressing perfection
Marty> yup
Marty> about pain
Marty> I have been feeling physical pain more recently
Marty> helping hands !
Marty> typing hands
Jack> My subconscious just said that by those slips are subconscious is giving us a hand in our continuing evolution .
Marty> cool
Jack> yeah isn't it? :-)
Marty> we are after all whole beings
Marty> conscious sub conc and superconcious right
Marty> not so much is said about superconcious tho
Jack> and a fractal-jar full of subpersonalities passed down to us from our social heritage .
Marty> lol!
Marty> them too
Jack> Yep. A long time ago I wrote a little snippet:
Marty> hmm a sore lie
Marty> go on sorr
Jack> Ya gotta use the Muse cuz is US - on the INside is US and on the outside is ME mUSe .
Marty> me usee
Marty> right cool
Jack> I love that ahem coincidence ahem that the concept of MUSE just turns out to be ahem spelled that way .
Marty> me u see inside an out
Marty> muse
Jack> And to be a-mused. Cool !
Marty> a muse is an inspirational thingy right ?
Marty> haha
Marty> an artist uses a muse - to be inspired to draw an paint
Jack> Drew anything else you'd like to share today ? I know you need to be going and love it that you're staying .
Marty> sure
Drew> I just need to make sure I get to the Post Office before they close.
Marty> lol
Drew> I was hoping someone with a little more experience was here... LOL
Marty> any trouble with anger?
Jack> More than whom ?
Marty> me me
Jack> ( my ? was to Drew )
Drew> Experience of SHARING KSMO with a partner...
Drew> The answer is "ME" in the context of SHARING KSMO
Jack> Understood, Drew thanks .
Drew> I suppose I should just "do it"... LOL
Jack> A post to the Forum might yield a response from Rick or Pan or other experienced people with partners .
Jack> Yeah there IS that Drew LOL !!!
Drew> Gotcha
Marty> drew? sorry you introduced Laly to this am I right?
Drew> I did!
Marty> aha
Marty> what is your difficulty now?
Marty> is you like to share I mean
Marty> if
Drew> She is the reason I'm going to the P.O. I'm sending here a package (Not KSMO related)
Marty> cool
Drew> Oh, I didn't introduce it to her in THAT way... Just told her about it.
Marty> right ok
Marty> so this is more difficult
Drew> Perhaps, perhaps not...
Jack> Watch out for those ANTICIPATORY FEAR furballs Marty !
Jack> Duck quick WOOSH there goes one !
Marty> I thought u were talking to drew!!!
Drew> I'm imagining it's going to be real EASY, actually.
Marty> you are only sharing yourself right drew?
Marty> oh good
Marty> positive mental attitude
Drew> I suppose that is correct, yes.
Marty> haha good realization
Jack> :-)
Marty> so it is going to go perfectly smoothly
Drew> Oh yeah, I'm all about smooooooth!
Jack> LOL !
Jack> I hear ya Brother Drew !
Jack> Ya gotta Witness !
Drew> OK, any questions/comments before I scoot?
Marty> ummm sometimes when I THINK I have to say something but it doesn't FEEL easy or right
Marty> I just try to listen to what my body needs to say
Marty> at that moment
Marty> listen might not be right word
Jack> That strategy REALLY RESONATES for me, Marty !
Marty> feel for
Jack> Listen may be the perfect word on the other hand :-)
Jack> Welcome darwin !
darwin> hi
Drew> Hi Darwin!
Marty> Hey darwin
darwin> I think I may have made it through the gates this morning
Jack> WOW !
Marty> how do you take that Drew?
Drew> Whoo Hoo!
Marty> Cool Darwin!
darwin> thanks...
darwin> i would describe it as a minor orgasm, but, pretty sure it was one.
Jack> What makes you think so ? What did you NOTICE ?
darwin> it built and built, through the sound. and then it kind of felt like i had gotten to a small peek.
Drew> Marty, like Jack... I feel you're on the right track. Listening to your body, feeling what you're feeling... That's where the WISDOM is!
Marty> peak or peek??
Marty> lol
darwin> with something of a release. it forced me to open my legs wide in pleasure
Jack> Yeah. A peek indeed ! :-)
Jack> Both, Marty a peek at a peak !
darwin> oops, i guess I meant peak, but, both...
Jack> Voila!
Jack> :-)
darwin> thanks so much jack for insisting on the Protocol.
darwin> I feel that, for me, the key is staying relaxed, and, catching the wave of pleasure with my vocalization
Jack> Oh you're quite welcome ! I like to call it a gently persistent invitation but sometimes ... :-)
Jack> Yeah would you pls say more about catching the wave with your vocalization ?
Marty> surfing
Marty> hmm !
Jack> hmmm indeed :-)
Marty> (good phrase Jack - gently persistent invitation)
darwin> ok. well I do the sound. then feel the echos, and, when I do the sound again, I try to let me feeling of rising pleasure lead me to the next sound
Jack> Thanks Marty !
darwin> I seek pleasure through the sound.
Marty> it sounds like you need to stay in contact with the feeling all the time
Marty> and use what you feel to guide you
darwin> a few other key things for me were the chin motion when i make the sound. that seems to bring the pleasure all through my torso
Jack> darwin , some folks may not be clear what you mean by the chin motion would you pls also describe that ?
Marty> yea do
Marty> please
darwin> sure. When I do the sound it helps if I begin with my chin tucked towards my chest, and then, it rises (arching my head back comfortably) during the sound, and, possible returning down to my chest at the end
Jack> ( tucked to chest but without straining )
darwin> kind of a howling motion, now that I think of it. and, yes, no straining. all is easy and relaxed. that is the key
Jack> Darwin that's a GREAT description !
Jack> TEACH , BROTHER !
darwin> I'm so thrilled.
Jack> And now you are learning the true VISCERAL meaning of THRILLED ! :-)
darwin> yes.
Jack> Often after such an opening ,
Marty> way cool
Jack> there is a tendency for our system to need to regroup and integrate this new level of arousal
Jack> therefore it MAY ( or may not ) happen that
Marty> (still here Drew?)
Jack> Echo Effects may not seem as strong at times after such an experience - but not to worry - it's CYCLICAL an ASCENDING SPIRAL over time .
Jack> There's a tendency
Marty> interesting
darwin> ok. one thing I think helps is for me to wait a day or to till I get a kind of KSMO "horniness" that seems to tell me I'm ready for another go
Jack> to want to go for MORE right away but that can become that chasing after trap .
Jack> VERY IMPORTANT TIP
Marty> good Darwin
Marty> feeling for the need!
Jack> Thanks for THAT wisdom too , Darwin !!!
Jack> Yeah otherwise you're FORCING IT.
Marty> I like the idea of spontaneity
Jack> It's like you need to have mutual and with your own body and how you are feeling physically before doing a practice session .
Marty> we have an intuition that will guide us if we listen .. right Jack?
Jack> [ mutual consent ]
Jack> What's your hunch Marty ? :-)
Marty> yes I have come across that idea to Jack
darwin> sure. I have one more thing I noticed that is key. that is: during the echo cycles to have deep relaxing breaths, and, to feel the pleasure perhaps in my abdomen or my legs, or wherever, but, during the start and the end of the deep breath
Marty> go on
darwin> jack do you have any ideas to share with me as far as getting further or deeper through the gate?
Jack> Beware now of wanting or trying to chase after more ... Like Andi has posted : " Don't chase the Fawn away let it come to you and eat from your hand ."
Jack> Continue to relax and enjoy your practice ! What you're doing IS working ,
Jack> is it not ?
darwin> ok. I'm kind of thinking its a tad like riding a bike, that what I now know will stay as a foundation for learning more
Jack> yeah I agree !
Jack> Just also pls be aware of the CYCLICAL nature of this kind of energy - it waxes and wanes from day to day
Jack> and practice to practice - and I think you understand that - just a little reminder :-)
darwin> ok. got it.
Jack> And please continue to blog your experiences insights AND questions to the Forum between these chats ok ?
darwin> ok. (did you see my post from a couple of days ago in the main chat?)
Jack> I think so but please refresh my RAM :-)
darwin> ok. it was titled something like "had some success"
Jack> yes.
darwin> that was before today's experience.
Jack> For continuity in that thread, will you also pls post a report of today's experience there and reference
Jack> ( one sec )
Jack> Chat 0247
darwin> will do.
Jack> That'll be the number of this chat transcript. THANKS !!! And again -
darwin> best sign off now... got to go to the pool. thanks a million again, and I look forward to future communication
Jack> HEARTFELT CONGRATULATIONS on this new Opening , darwin !!!
Jack> Likewise!
Marty> well...
Jack> Yes ?
Marty> nah I was just gettin distracted reading something else
Marty> I mentioned to my sister
Marty> about my experiences with suppressed anger
Marty> and the pain I have in my body ..
Marty> and that I was going to a therapist . And it felt good to have shared it
Marty> with her
Marty> I had been going to an acupuncturist
Marty> for back pain
Jack> VERY courageous step in your evolution Marty ! How did she receive it?
Marty> she is cool
Jack> Good !
Jack> Back pain eh ?
Marty> she tried to suggest ways of dealing with anger
Jack> As in Holding Back Anger ?
Marty> very funny
Marty> never come across that one b4
Jack> Funny but also may be true .
Marty> damm right
Marty> holding back anger
Marty> oh yea
Marty> that's good
Jack> Our subconscious uses all kinds of ways to communicate important info to us .
Marty> you are a treasure
Jack> There's a whole body of writing about Illness as Metaphor or in this case a symptom as metaphor . :-)
Jack> Oh man , thanks !
Marty> I have a book by a German guy Detlefsen
Marty> sorry Dethlsefsen
Marty> he talks about things like that
Marty> too
Marty> anyway
Jack> Great ! Thanks for that reference .
Marty> I could find it if u like
Marty> but you probably well informed anyway
Marty> holding back pain ...'
Marty> just thinking
Marty> holding back anger
Marty> I always equated anger and hurt
Jack> Please by all means post any and all worthwhile references to the Forum . My goal is to then create a resources area on the main site to organize all of this great info .
Jack> Yeah for SURE about anger and hurt !
Marty> thought they always come together
Jack> How about now ?
Marty> I mean if I were to express anger - that I would hurt someone
Marty> and that I was too scared to want to do
Marty> I mean I don't want to cause hurt
Marty> also I reckoned there would be a backlash
Jack> The hurt's probably already there in you underneath the anger .
Marty> yes I guess I thought other peoples hurt was more important
Jack> That's what the counselor can help you with .
Jack> The hurt in YOU is the hurt you can heal .
Jack> VERY IMPORTANT POINT :-)
Jack> And I will add to that : " ... with skilled professional help ".
Jack> A good counselor is like training wheels - they help you get your balance
Marty> ok I will be seeing the therapist on Wednesday
Marty> I have it from my acupuncturist that she is real good
Jack> and are there to help you to learn to move forward on your own . It's always good though to get a little refresher with them from time to time as well -
Marty> oh yes
Marty> I know
Marty> I was going to say thanks for all
Jack> especially as NEW Adult Developmental Stages inevitably occur and tend to bring up their own set of issues and responses AND PERSPECTIVES to the
Jack> unfinished business AND to the Lessons Learned .
Marty> right
Marty> yes I get it
Jack> Marty , that's great that you're working with a female counselor who appears to know what she's doing . It'd be good to know what
Jack> kind of formal training she has in dealing with anger - even perhaps at times rather intense anger .
Marty> hahah -- seriously yes I am curious too
Marty> I spoke to her and mentioned anger - well she didn't make a point but accepted this
Marty> I mean she didn't point out that she could not help
Marty> I reckon / feel she can help
Jack> I think it's a fair question to ask of a professional counselor .
Marty> yes
Marty> we will see and talk about it later
Jack> yeah sounds good !
Marty> now it is supper time here
Marty> Hey Laly!
Jack> Any last thoughts about what darwin shared ?
Laly> HI marty HUGS
Jack> Hey Laly!
Laly> hi jack
Marty> still can't type!!
Laly> hello drew
Marty> drew is at the post office
Marty> posting you a parcel!!!
Marty> so he said
Jack> He's actually in logging mode at this point.
Laly> no worries :-).
Laly> sweet
Marty> anyway my supper beckons
Jack> Marty, any final thoughts about what darwin shared ?
Marty> so thanks Jack for all
Jack> You can just blog them in the Forum - enjoy your dinner !
Marty> surfing the wave
Jack> Yayuh !
Marty> he mentioned
Marty> I don't have any experience of Key sound or Echoes that could
Marty> relate to this however
Jack> Well keep coming to these chats and we'll address that .
Marty> so I think I will wait until I feel like practicing next
Marty> exactly
Jack> Yeah that's a good plan !
Laly> we are here for u marty
Jack> When the Spirit Moves Ye !
Marty> right on man
Jack> And Ms.
Jack> :-)
Marty> aww thanks Lally
Marty> Cool Jack
Jack> Ain't she the Best !
Jack> k Marty !
Marty> I will be back !
Laly> aww - blushes
Jack> Thanks again for being here today !
Marty> hell yes
Jack> Keep blogging to the Forum meanwhile .
Marty> ok see ya whenever probably in a week
Jack> sounds good . cheers eh !
Marty> Thanks again bye!
Laly> bye marty.
Jack> How is Ms. Laly today ?
Laly> off the planet with so much energy
Jack> Off the planet ?
Laly> uh huh.
Laly> in my 11 months of practicing KSMO
Laly> had another 1st Thursday nite
Laly> a hmm time.
Laly> awareness of new sensations/ Echo effects
Laly> did my regular meditation and yoga exercise
Jack> GOOD WARMUP TIP !
Laly> sat down in my chair to relax and breathe
Laly> :-).
Laly> and immediately the area surrounding my anus pulsated
Laly> for good 15-20 minutes
Jack> Was that pleasant for you ?
Laly> yes
Jack> That is GREAT !!!
Laly> but being first time this happened
Laly> did not tense- just breathed, do not remember if did KS or not
Laly> but felt like i was floating
Laly> wept
Laly> did not amplify the sensations
Laly> but could feel it as it spread from lower extremities to heart and outward
Laly> a great feeling of gently being lifted
Jack> [ hi roderick welcome! Laly has the Talking Stick for the moment ]
Laly> a pleasurable orgasmic wave
Laly> totally spontaneous ;-).
Jack> Wonderful Wonder FULL Laly !!!
Jack> Wonderful Wonder FULL Laly !!!
Jack> :-)
Laly> thanks.
Laly> even today my heart is full
Jack> :-) That was my next question . :-)
Laly> shining, am smiling.
Jack> That is really cool Laly CONGRATULATIONS again and again !
Laly> :-)
Jack> Do you happen to have a bathtub ?
Laly> yes
Jack> A warm soothing bath preferably with some goodies in it that smell real nice like say Lavender can be
Jack> a nice way to ground yourself after such a wonderful flight . :-)
Laly> had planned to to just that later.
Laly> to do
Jack> ATTA Girl ! You definitely got the Knack ! :-)
Laly> thanks.
Laly> hi roderick HUGS.
roderik> hi to you too, and hugs right back at you!
Jack> [ fyi Drew's back too ! ]
Laly> <grins
Laly> ok
Drew> Hellllllooooooo!
Laly> HUGS drew
roderik> I've read quite a few of your posts laly, and I must say I'm rather inspired, even though I have not yet experienced much of what you and other
roderik> veterans have written about.
Laly> aww - thanks
Laly> what I just described to jack roderik
Laly> was a first experience for me in my 11 months of practice
Laly> occurred spontaneously.
Jack> Because you relaxed sat down and ALLOWED it to ! :-)
Laly> yes.
Laly> I mean is hard just for me to sit still right now- want to shout to the heavens
Laly> I know my well is full
Jack> LOL .
Jack> Got any paints ?
Laly> yes
Jack> hmmmm ...
Jack> :-)
Laly> a 50 gallon toate full of them
Laly> tote
Jack> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ...
Jack> :-)
Laly> takes deep breath & releases , smiles
Jack> :-)
roderik> Is that a reference to the Sedona method by chance? That is something I find useful as a background tool in letting go (in the broader sense)
Laly> ok- care to share anything roderik? drew?
Laly> yes Jack
Laly> I use a broad range of meditation techniques
roderik> I was reading one of Pan's posts today on the usefulness of complementary techniques--sexual/erotic, spiritual and otherwise
Jack> YES !
Jack> For the readers do you happen to recall which conference ? maybe also a topic name ?
roderik> I found some inspiration in that, and had a nice session today, even though my spontaneous reactions are still INCREDIBLY subtle--more
roderik> pleasant mood swings and twinklings of the upper legs than anything else.
roderik> I'm not sure about the topic name. It was one of the top search results for the word "waves"
roderik> Pan was discussing use of the aneros and the combinations of concentration, meditation, amygdala clicking, entrainment CDs and so on that he uses regarding that
Jack> Part of the practice - a COGNITIVE aspect is learning to self-describe your experience without the even though clause . Just as a cognitive experiment ,
Jack> would you be willing to retype the I found some inspiration in that line again and leave out the even though clause ?
Jack> As a cognitive - emotional experiment ? :-)
Laly> ok - SUCCESS STORIES and Congratulations- it just gets better and better?
Laly> link
Jack> Thanks for the reference Laly !
Laly> your welcome
roderik> Sure...I found in that and had an ice session today, taking note of the fact that the results I experienced were incredibly subtle.
Jack> Notice what you're subconscious just taught you and retype it again if you would - you might learn something more :-)
roderik> I'm also still learning how to navigate the posts and previous chat transcripts.
roderik> There's a lot of information there...so much good stuff to read, and it just keeps coming.
Laly> yes it does
Jack> Yeah ! I need all of the volunteer editors I can get to help continue to make all of these great nuggets more readily accessible to everyone !
roderik> Do Freudian slips extend to typing?
Laly> It is great that u are noticing the subtle things roderik :-).
Jack> What's your hunch ?
Jack> [ my ? was to rod ]
roderik> I just re-read my line there--"an ice session" where I (think) I meant to say "a nice session"
Jack> yes that's it .
roderik> LOL!
Jack> Ah ENLIGHTENMENT !
Jack> LOL !
Laly> <grins.
Jack> :-)
Jack> Care to type it again ? :-)
roderik> Maybe I'm looking for more warmth than I'm getting, or possibly looking intentionally where the party isn't in order to torment myself.
Laly> oh? torment?? eek
roderik> Sure...I had a nice session today, feeling some subtle tinglings and a very present shift in mood, which was quite welcome.
roderik> Torment is perhaps not the right word--too harsh. Annoy myself or tease myself might have been closer to the mark.
roderik> Give myself a hard time
Jack> Yeah could be , rod . Those are PERFECT EXAMPLES ( the maybe I'm looking for warmth - line ) of the kinds of OPPORTUNITIES for PERSONAL GROWTH ( aka emotional furballs ) that are
Jack> great to explore with a professional counselor, roderick.
Jack> Bienvenido horaldo !
horaldo_martinez> hi there
Laly> hello horaldo
horaldo_martinez> hello there
horaldo_martinez> it's been a while since my last visit!
horaldo_martinez> good to be back here
Jack> horaldo , roderik was just sharing about a recent experience he just had . You are next in line for the Talking Stick after him . And it's GREAT to hear from you again !!! MUCHO GUSTO !!!
horaldo_martinez> ok!
Jack> Thanks! roderik , did you see
Jack> my comment about OPPORTUNITY ?
roderik> I did.
Jack> K, good !
Jack> Care to write that sentence again ? :-)
Jack> Seemed like there was a lot of inner-ji bound up in there !
roderik> I look to those opportunities that come up in everyday life and try to take advantage of them and learn from them.
Jack> Yeah imho that's a VERY productive attitude to have !
Jack> Say more about the nice session please .
roderik> I had been in a rather odd break for a while
roderik> and feeling a little dull yesterday in general
roderik> when for some reason (I don't remember what inspired it exactly) I took up making the key sound this morning
roderik> after waking up
roderik> as well as looking up some comments on the forum for inspiration
roderik> and I started getting some nice vibes
roderik> By that I mean general good feelings residing in--what?--the humours or something.
roderik> They are not usually directly sexual feelings, although they can definitely be derived from a
roderik> very loving, erotic sense of physical joy that I get.
Jack> That sounds perfect !
roderik> That's something that occurs in a sort of pre-sexual state.
Jack> Especially after a long time away from practice .
roderik> I try to use the key sound in a very quiet, almost inaudible way while sitting up
roderik> because lying down tends to close off my ability to make the sound physically.
roderik> Right...it hasn't been so much a conscious decision to not practice
roderik> but rather that practice has been less spiritual and more "hurried"
roderik> It's sometimes difficult for me to ride that spiritual or emotional wave
roderik> than to just go for a release.
Jack> By release do you mean ejaculation ?
roderik> Yes.
roderik> I still try to have a day where I use the Key Sound and stay away from anything further
roderik> Sometimes that doesn't fly.
Jack> When you make this choice is it straight from the KSMO practice into switching gears and going for ejaculation ?
roderik> Sometimes.
roderik> Sometimes I'll flirt with doing KSMO and then change my mind.
Jack> Well that can be short-circuiting the opportunity for the Echo Effects to build during the off times -
Jack> My comment was re going straight from KSMO to ejaculation .
roderik> Other times, I'm able to do KSMO, but then later in the day things will take a different direction.
roderik> Right...I try not to do that.
Jack> That time may be a time where you might explore some change though -
Jack> that is:
roderik> But sometimes, instead of dissipating the energy, the Key Sound helps to amplify it---with nothing to aide the release.
Jack> Release THROUGH THE SOUND .
roderik> That's like blowing up a balloon, and then just letting it sit there, quite taught.
Jack> Do an ENERGY EJACULATION through the SOUND .
Jack> How do you know ? Have you tried it ?
roderik> Indeed, through the sound. I'm still working with that...learning.
roderik> I think that IS what I'm trying to do.
roderik> I have learned to see the Key Sound as both an instrument of invocation and of release.
Jack> VERY IMPORTANT POINT : ONE OF THE PRIMARY USES OF THE KEY SOUND AT THE HIGHER LEVELS OF AROUSAL IS TO GIVE AN ALTERNATIVE TO EJACULATION FOR RELEASING THOSE PENT UP FEELINGS .
roderik> I've become, I think, more adept at the first than the second.
Jack> Yes Roderik that's very well said about an instrument of invocation and release . I like that a lot !!!
roderik> Perhaps that should be my next focus.
Jack> Yes that's the natural next step - to learn to allow more of that pent up energy to flow out through the Key Sound instead of
roderik> Thanks.
Jack> letting it build up to where you rationalize going for ejaculation. Remember that some of the STRONGEST Echo Effects can happen on the days between sessions.
roderik> There is a lot to be said for visualization (be it "visual" or kinesthetic)
Jack> That of course can even happen if on SOME of the off days you ejaculate .
roderik> That's always been an interesting point for me.
Jack> Yeah I agree re the visualization be it visual kinesthetic auditory etc.
roderik> The days off, spontaneous occurrences
roderik> It's not happened to me yet.
Jack> yeah some of THE BIGGEST openings happen.
Jack> Hasn't happened yet cuz you keep poppin' the breaker !
Jack> :-)
Laly> uh huh - I agree.
roderik> I was once riding an interesting wave of pleasure after some heavy, direct stimulation, but without ejaculation.
roderik> I went to bed and was sort of "ringing" for a long time.
Jack> Yeah that's somewhat similar to this. The thing is :
roderik> Point taken. But I don't always "pop" the breaker mind you.
Jack> HEAVY STIMULATION tends to SUPPRESS the MULTI-ORGASMICALLY HIGH levels of arousal !
roderik> I know.
Jack> The practice involves learning how to redirect that increasing charge that keeps wanting to build up and push you towards ejaculation to INSTEAD keep
Jack> redirecting it out through that next Key Sound - without forcing of course , but ALLOWING that building energy to flow out through THAT NEXT Key Sound
Jack> .
Laly> roderik- u say you have read my posts
roderik> I haven't read all of them, laly.
roderik> I have read some...enough to have some sense of what you've shared.
Laly> ok but what u HAVE read-
Laly> come from my allowing myself
Laly> to explore
Laly> sorry - didn't mean to interrupt u jack/
roderik> In my mind, I associate you and your posts with a sense of touching a more spiritual and emotional side of what we're dancing with here
roderik> something that is perhaps the complement to the more aggressive sexual drive
roderik> that while fairly heated and driving,
roderik> can often leave us (I think men in particular) disappointed and drained
roderik> rather than inspired (in the literal sense of having life breathed into one) and energized
roderik> as is the case with the more allowing and communal (communing with one's body/self/soul) approach
Laly> ok - what u just said - i refer to normal stimulatory physical orgasms and KSMO orgasms
roderik> Sure--separate
Laly> it can be the same way for women too roderik
roderik> Would you say KSMO are the more full body?
Jack> [ Laly when able pls share how the two kinds of orgasm are different for you - thanks! ]
Laly> oh definitely roderik
Laly> oh jack - lol
Laly> ok
Jack> Thanks !
roderik> I haven't yet experienced a full body orgasm yet, but I think these emotional waves or twinklings are the precursors.
Laly> they are a start yes
Jack> Yeah I agree roderik!
Jack> - and Laly ! :-)
roderik> It's quite lovely...sometimes I'll do KSMO for a bit, and my mood shifts quite sharply, so it seems like I'm literally sitting on my happiness!
Laly> nice "welcome to the adventures" feelings huh roderik :-)
Jack> LOL I love that description roderik !
roderik> Yes...even if I never had a FBO, I'd be grateful to be able to ride those emotional highs.
roderik> There's so much energy and productivity in active positiveness like.
Jack> Yeah That's the signal line imho roderik that sweetness vibe is definitely a huge part of this experience - it can also be very phallic and hot and intense - just stay tuned - and keep redirecting the arousing arising energy out through THAT NEXT Key Sound :-)
roderik> I get subtle senses of this in my belly as I type.
Laly> yeah!!!
Jack> THASS WHUT I'M TAWKIN ABOUT !
Laly> lol - thank heavens am not the only one jack -
Jack> See ? Roderik ? Your body is giving you all kinds of signals to stay with this - to keep OPENING to what your body still has to teach you - and can hardly wait to do so !
Jack> LOL Laly!
roderik> I would like to discover more connection between the Key Sound "up there" and the sensations and belly stuff "down there"
Jack> LET THEM COME to YOU !!!
roderik> I think they're connected, but I want to discover that connection more directly.
Laly> patience
Jack> LET GO OF TRYING TO RUN THE AGENDA.
roderik> Now it seems more hit and miss.
Laly> mind noise.
roderik> Run the agenda...yes. I see. I have more success in letting go some days than others.
Jack> You get on that agenda and it DISCOUNTS what you ARE experiencing and THAT is one of the COGNITIVE traps - of the nothing is happening category .
roderik> I am aware of that.
Jack> It's variant like not ENOUGH is happening ( yet !) or ... you get the idea. :-)
roderik> Notice what IS happening. What's in my body at this moment.
Jack> Yeah Laly mind noise - AND ALSO:
Laly> good - keep with that
Jack> underneath that I think is often the fear that even though OTHER people are reporting incredible stuff I'm afraid it won't ever happen for me !
Laly> uh huh-
Jack> That kinda mind noise sticky goo .
Jack> :-)
Jack> But ... Hey that's why we're here , yes ?
Jack> To sort all that out .
Laly> not every one person experience KSMO the same way
Jack> Yeah I truly believe it is FRACTAL in variety and intensity .
Laly> or every session is the same for that same said person
Jack> Like a fractal - similar but never same .
Laly> yes
Jack> Hey how about we pass the Talking Stick to a VERY PATIENT horaldo ?
Laly> sure
Jack> Horaldo are you still there ?
Jack> May have gone afk for a bit .
Jack> PAGING HORALDO ARE YOU THERE ?
Jack> [ pardon my shouting ]
horaldo_martinez> I'M HEEERRE!!!
Laly> lol
Jack> All Right !!!
Jack> Well first off , what comments or thoughts or questions
horaldo_martinez> I had to go and cough up some stuff... i have a nasty cough and cold
Jack> eeew thanks for letting us know !
Jack> LOL
Laly>
horaldo_martinez> hehe!
Jack> I do hope you begin noticing a little sooner than you might expect that you're starting to feel a little better :-)
Jack> Any thoughts questions comments etc. about what we've been discussing so far ?
Jack> Also since you've been away for a while , could you pls update we folk and the transcript readers as to your history with this practice and maybe your age marital status where typing from generally etc.
horaldo_martinez> I guess that everyone
horaldo_martinez> who is working with the Key Sound is experiencing the same things,
Jack> SIMILAR things prolly not the same . :-)
Jack> What's YOUR experience ?
horaldo_martinez> we are all going through the same stages I should say
Jack> Yeah there definitely seems to be a pattern as we sort through the challenges and learn how to open to these spontaneous feelings that await us .
horaldo_martinez> ok, so I am 24, single, coming from the land of Oz,
horaldo_martinez> history of practice? not sure to tell you the truth!
horaldo_martinez> when was my last chat?
Jack> g'day !
horaldo_martinez> about a month or so?
horaldo_martinez> g'day mate
horaldo_martinez>
horaldo_martinez> 2 months max... I dunno... I'm pretty casual with it
Jack> No worries - I think casual
Jack> is better than trying to chase after the Echo Effects .
Jack> When the Spiriti moves you as they say :-)
Jack> What are you experiencing during and after practice ?
Jack> [ hmm spiriti - latin plural of spirit - cool ! ]
horaldo_martinez> well, I probably do a formal practice once every couple of weeks or something
horaldo_martinez> but sort of think every now and then, ie sometimes every
horaldo_martinez> day, 1 minute here and there,
horaldo_martinez> or maybe 10 minutes whatever
horaldo_martinez> I mess around with it
Jack> K . What are you noticing so far ?
horaldo_martinez> ok. well, i had a mini-breakthrough just this week!
Laly> awesome :-).
Jack> Really ? !!! Please tell us if you would !
horaldo_martinez> hang on, thinking how to explain!!!!
horaldo_martinez> my brain not work good
Jack> Take your time - BREATHE ... :-)
Jack> Brains are partial to oxygen .
horaldo_martinez> ok, try explain like this...
horaldo_martinez> i felt that I wasn't really expressing the key sound/ myself through the Key Sound
horaldo_martinez> you know you can feel you're not getting it
horaldo_martinez> there's like a space you know you should be in/ move towards,
horaldo_martinez> ... hang on... it's like I wasn't expressing the key sound properly, and could feel
horaldo_martinez> that I needed to express it in a different/ deeper way, if you will
horaldo_martinez> gee this explanation is not going so good
horaldo_martinez> !
roderik> think I know what you mean
Jack> Actually I think you're doing fine .
Jack> Pls say more roderik .
roderik> If I get horaldo correctly, it's the sense that it needs to be deeper and more resonant.
roderik> Sometimes I don't quite get there.
roderik> I'm still playing with that.
horaldo_martinez> ok, yeah I feel where you're coming from roderik,
roderik> I still try to use the Barry White, resonating chest clue!
Jack> :-)
horaldo_martinez> but what I'm talking about here is more along the lines of 'feeling' instead of 'sound'
horaldo_martinez> ie you can
horaldo_martinez> 'feel' if the KS is being expressed properly
horaldo_martinez> so,
Jack> [ re: feel - yes the spontaneous Echo Effects are the sensations that will guide you ]
horaldo_martinez> I felt it should sound more 'erotic', but had not want to make it sound like
horaldo_martinez> that in case the other people in the house heard me and got scared or something!! hehe
Jack> Yeah that's an artificial constraint that of course can be a challenge to practice.
horaldo_martinez> anyways, when I was home alone a few days ago, I thought I'd try expressing it
Jack> To some extent some nice non-distracting music or even moderately high level natural sound recordings e.g. rushing brooks ocean sounds etc. can serve as a sound mask to some degree .
Jack> [sorry, pls continue]
horaldo_martinez> more like I felt my body wanted the ks to be expressed
horaldo_martinez> I think that is what I was trying to say about 'feeling' rather than 'sound'
horaldo_martinez> anyways, to cut a long story short, coz this is taking 4ever!,
horaldo_martinez> when I followed my instinct here, it was the correct way for me, and experienced
horaldo_martinez> , some nice waves of pleasure with this way
Jack> EXCELLENT !!!
horaldo_martinez> I could feel the Key Sound was being expressed properly coz it was
horaldo_martinez> pushing my belly out
horaldo_martinez> I suppose you would call them strong Echo Effects... but they were pretty good
Laly> sweet!
Jack> Notice what you typed:
Jack> I suppose you WOULD call them strong echo effects... but they were pretty good
Jack> :-)
Jack> That's your subconscious checking in on the issue ?
horaldo_martinez> what d'ya mean?
Jack> Did you intend to type would or wouldn't ?
horaldo_martinez> no, I meant to type 'would'
Jack> Oh. You're use of but threw me then.
Jack> No worries onward ! :-)
horaldo_martinez> my typing communication 'stinks' , as you Americans would say!
Jack> Actually if that's what you intended to say I'd say you did just fine !
Jack> Also as evidenced even in today's chat ,
Jack> when people start talking about this
Jack> they often make so-called slips that actually reveal important information from their subconscious. So I'm always on the lookout ! :-)
Laly> oh yeah- he caught me in plenty horaldo
horaldo_martinez> I should sit down for a few minutes and properly explain myself next time!
horaldo_martinez> this is terrible
horaldo_martinez> ! I must say tho that it is early in the morning over here. that is my excuse!!
Jack> I'm a little baffled as to why you are fretting so much . It seems to me that you have communicated just fine .
Jack> If ever there was a proper time for "no worries mate!" this is it. Get me drift ?
Jack> :-)
Jack> Are you ok ?
horaldo_martinez> sure. just want to communicate this with you that's all!
Jack> Yeah I hear that loud and clear !
horaldo_martinez> so let me finish it off with just the facts:
Laly> yep.
Jack> Yes pls ! What were these Echoes like ?
horaldo_martinez> made the key sound i feel, the 'right' way
horaldo_martinez> belly pushed out
Jack> on its own ?
horaldo_martinez> it felt 'there'
horaldo_martinez> yep
Jack> VERY cool !
horaldo_martinez> that's what I mean!
Jack> Yeah that THERE feeling is a GREAT sign - it
Jack> means you are
Jack> REALLY GETTING the self-calibrating aspect of the practice
Jack> learning to TRUST that your body gives you a signal - that THERE feeling is a PERFECT example of that .
horaldo_martinez> the main issue with me now is letting myself/ giving myself permission/ being 'brave' enough to make the sound like this
horaldo_martinez> sorta feel like I'm in uncharted territory when i make it
Jack> For SURE and I REALLY support your appropriate concern that you indeed have the privacy you deserve to explore this !
Jack> Is there ever a time when
Jack> you have the place all to yourself ?
horaldo_martinez> I think it is part of our cultural conditioning, if you will, of us being males and not being 'sensual'
Jack> Yeah it's not macho to FEEL that's GIRLIE thing .
horaldo_martinez> coz i really feel that is the major thing here now
Jack> What a load of b.s. it takes a LOT of COURAGE to be OPEN .
Jack> Pardon me, what specifically is the major thing ?
horaldo_martinez> when i try make it, it's like i don't wanna let myself make the sound,
Jack> [ My comment about b.s. was re: it's not being cool to feel ]
horaldo_martinez> i think because of the 'man not sensual' thing i mentioned
Laly> hmmm
Jack> Yeah Brother , that's an Emotional Furball - you're bumping up against our cultural conditioning to be unfeeling warriors rather than lovers.
Jack> Including loving ourselves .
horaldo_martinez> if/when I loose this fear/become comfortable doing this then it'll be big progress I'm predicting
Jack> Yeah just take it a little at a time.
Laly> I agree
Jack> THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN VOICE TO THAT FEAR HERE
Jack> ALREADY IS A CHANGE .
horaldo_martinez> coz, back to my experience with it, the Echos were pretty good waves
Jack> Yeah ? That's GREAT ! Where are you feeling them ?
horaldo_martinez> I've experienced Echos before in practice , but now they were actually
horaldo_martinez> more like 'waves', not echos
Jack> WOO WHOOO
Jack> That's a VERY good sign !
horaldo_martinez> full body
horaldo_martinez> or at least 'full torso'!
Jack> WONDER FULL !!!
Laly> way to go!
horaldo_martinez> this one night, actually was pretty good.
Jack> Yeah ? What happened ?
horaldo_martinez> I was laying in bed, and making the sound into the pillow
horaldo_martinez> and kept making the sound... I don't use any stimulation with this practice
horaldo_martinez> I prefer to just use the sound... is that viable practice by t\he way?
Laly> I do the same thing horaldo
horaldo_martinez> and the energy/ desire kept building up, and at one stage I was sorta feeling like
Jack> Your Echo Effects are the answer to your question re: viable practice horaldo ! :-)
horaldo_martinez> ... well good!.. anyway and I was shaking a bit
horaldo_martinez> - my arms - a bit uncontrollably. I think that experience maybe was a taste of the key sound orgasm - it was as if i was taking off UP the roller coaster, but it was already such a good ride that i jumped out of the carriage!
horaldo_martinez> anyways!
horaldo_martinez> that's what i experienced
horaldo_martinez> so there
Jack> W
Jack> O
Jack> W
Jack> WOW !!!
horaldo_martinez> the thing is tho that I've regressed - I've fallen into the trap of patience
horaldo_martinez> l
horaldo_martinez> o
horaldo_martinez> l
horaldo_martinez> lol
horaldo_martinez> !!
Jack> :-)
horaldo_martinez>
Jack> What do you mean you jumped out of the carriage ?
horaldo_martinez> I was reveling in the 'tasty' feelings of desire/the energy, and thinking 'sh*t this' pretty good what's
horaldo_martinez> happening
horaldo_martinez> , and I guess just settled down
horaldo_martinez> coz
horaldo_martinez> I dunno, it sort of felt similar to the prelude of ejaculation, where u go, 'o-oh'
horaldo_martinez> like when ur on the roller coaster, and it goes 'c-clunk', like a train taking off, and you know ur heading towards the peak of the ride, and then ur gunna go 'whooosh' or 'weeee' or whatever! down the big dipper
Laly>
horaldo_martinez> hehe
Jack> wheeeeeeeeeeeeee !!!
horaldo_martinez> anyways, these are my jumbled up thoughts
horaldo_martinez> I hope it's not \this jumbled in my head, and it just comes out like this!
horaldo_martinez> I am partial to 'whoohoooo'!!
Laly> you did fine
Jack> NO WORRIES repeat after me NO WORRIES :-) Yeah Whoohoooo For SURE !!! THANKS horaldo !!! Sounds to me like you just took the Ferrari out once around the block .
Jack> Easy on that accelerator Brother ! :-P
horaldo_martinez> hehe, Ferrari's are cool
horaldo_martinez> I want one
Laly> ooo..like that analogy.
Jack> You've GOT one - that's my point !
horaldo_martinez> cool
horaldo_martinez> where is it?
horaldo_martinez> I wanna show it off
Laly> LOL.
horaldo_martinez> is it red?
Jack> Once you learn how to drive it - I'm sure somebody'll ask for a ride ! ;-P
horaldo_martinez> It's a shame it only has two seats tho
Jack> I have no idea what color YOUR Ferrari is , ahem . :-)
horaldo_martinez> *naughty*
Jack> Where is it ? Well until this last report of yours , for the most part it was parked in your garage at the base of your spine .
Laly> I'll stick with my limo
horaldo_martinez> cool
Jack> You GO Girl Laleeeee !!!
Jack> LMAO!
Laly> <blushes
Jack> :-) :-)
Jack> Horaldo I think one your greater challenges now is feeling ok about what you ARE experiencing !
Jack> It seems like you've really succeeded in establishing the connection between your active practice and ALLOWING the Echo Effects to emerge .
Jack> That is VERY cool !!!
Jack> Yeah that jumping off the carriage is imho an example of a mild case of Terror at the Gates - that sort of
Jack> Oh My God where is THIS all gonna GO !!!
horaldo_martinez> hmmm
horaldo_martinez> ok
Jack> And where it goes is into your RELAXING BREATHS for grounding and when ready for more , another arousal-amplifying Key Sound to unlock that next Gateway .
horaldo_martinez> after this stuff happened i started trying to take it deeper. oops . guess what ? fell into trap of forcing it
Jack> Yes BUT guess what? You
Jack> RECOGNIZED that
horaldo_martinez> so from now I think I must go back to not caring about making it more intense
horaldo_martinez> I regressed!
horaldo_martinez> but it should be pretty easy to get back to where i was if i practice right don't ya think
Jack> and THAT means that you are really getting the knack for SELF-CALIBRATION of your practice !!! That is you're learning how to steer that Ferrari !
Laly> but as Jack said- u recognized that u were forcing and backed off
horaldo_martinez> yea thanks for that ... grounding ... relaxing breaths
Jack> Yeah! What Laly said I said ! :-)
Laly> lol
horaldo_martinez> that tip may come in handy!
Jack> EXCELLENT !!!
Jack> Between chats please blog your experiences and insights to the Forum e.g. in the First Time Experiencing Conference or similar relevant topic area . And we really
Jack> look forward to your checkin' back in here too because the realtime dialogue is also really great and you get a lotta questions answered in a hurry .
Laly> yep/
Jack> I gotta say I am VERY pleased about your degree of progress - both re: physical responses AND your emotional and cognitive shifts - ALL TO THE GOOD Brother !
horaldo_martinez> why thank you
Jack> roderik is there anything you'd care to add ?
horaldo_martinez> and you're key sound rocks!
Jack> TELL THE WORLD Horaldo ! :-)
roderik> I also find
roderik> the talk sessions/chats helpful
Jack> [ and THANKS Horaldo !!! ]
roderik> as it gives me the feeling of connection to the "group" so to say
Jack> Most definitely ! Me too !!!
Laly> me 3
Jack> :-)
Jack> Well I'm very glad you connected today roderik - it's really great to be able to dialogue with you again !
roderik> Thanks
roderik> I would like to participate more often, and I simply haven't gotten to it.
roderik> I try to visit the forum often.
Jack> That's great ! And I really appreciate your being here in the chat whenever you can .
roderik> I want to keep the connection
roderik> and not let things slip into the "something I used to be into" pile.
Jack> That means a LOT to me to hear that !
roderik> I don't see much risk of that, and maybe some of the breaks are necessary to the process.
roderik> We'll see...
Laly> I feel the same way
Jack> And also know that people do take breaks from active engagement then come back - and that particular group as a group has very good success when they do that .
Laly> uh huh -
Jack> Thanks very much to both of you for saying that.
Laly> I can testify to that personally
Jack> YOU ARE TELLING A VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT STORY IN THESE CHATS AND FORUM . ONE THE WORLD NEEDS TO KNOW AND IS ACHING TO FIND OUT ABOUT .
Jack> Thanks Laly !
roderik> I wonder how sexual stereotypes (male/female) will change as this begins to "enter the culture" more...
roderik> It changes the whole game, doesn't it? . . .
Laly> it is meeting newbies like roderik and horaldo that I post to the forums like I do
Jack> I SINCERELY hope you'll blog your thoughts about that in the Forum roderik !
Jack> That's a very good point Laly !
roderik> Forum posting is something I must make a point to get more experience with
Laly> that KSMO and KS does not necessarily
Laly> discriminate/dissect cause of being male or female
Laly> but to be intuitive to your own body
Jack> [ Thanks for noticing that ! It's intentional ! :-) ]
roderik> yes...I began to be very hurt in college by girls I wanted to be close to telling me (in an almost disgusted tone)
roderik> that I couldn't understand this or that because I'm male.
Jack> Yeah there could be some emotional furball residue from those experiences roderik - very good opportunity to address in counseling .
Laly> try being the only girl in neighborhood growing up roderik
Jack> That sounds like it coulda been very brutal .
roderik> Well, I was the only boy in a house full of five girls.
Jack> OMG !
Laly> whoa
horaldo_martinez> hehe, middle boy, 4 sisters!
roderik> Not the same thing, I know, but still interesting.
roderik> One half sister, one full sister and three step sisters
Jack> Looks like y'all got a witnessing from horaldo !
Laly> can play football with the best
roderik> Indeed!
Laly>
Jack> Well y'all I'm startin' to fade after 4 hours here . :-) Whew what a blast !
Laly> I bet Jack
roderik> Me too..it's late here in Germany
Laly> u are the BEST tho - hugss
Jack> Any loose ends for anyone before we say au revoir oder fur roderik : Tschuss !
roderik> Thanks, Jack, for being here and putting in the time you do!
horaldo_martinez> yeah, thanks
Drew> I see you've broken the FOUR HOUR mark, Jack!
Jack> You are very welcome !!! The degree to which you share of your AUTHENTIC selves here makes it ALL WORTHWHILE !!!
roderik> Sorry I came late...better than too early
Jack> That's right Drew ! Only one hour away from the Record ! But that's it for me for today ! Whew ! :-)
Jack> LMAO roderik great attitude LOL ! Enjoy your practice !
roderik> Will do Jack...thanks!
Jack> Big Hugs to each of you !!!
Jack> You're very welcome roderik !
Drew> Right back at ya, Bro!
Laly>
Jack> Thank ye Drew it was great talking with you today !!!
Drew> Likewise!
Laly> and i DIDNT HAVE TO drag him here neither jack
Jack> LOL !
roderik> Thanks to you too laly...it was great to exchange some ideas with you today in person!
Laly> same here roderik
horaldo_martinez> nice talking to you all. maybe c y'all next time. g'night
Laly> nite horaldo
horaldo_martinez> g'nit
Drew> Night Horaldo!
horaldo_martinez> g'nit
roderik> goodnight!
horaldo_martinez> g'nit
Jack> ni' nite All !!!
Laly> nite jack HUGS
Jack> 2 u 2 Laleeeeee !!!
roderik> Waltons flashback here. . .
Jack> LOL.
Laly> lol roderik
roderik>
Jack> G'nite roderik-joe-billy-bob!
Drew> LMAO
Laly> nite john boy
roderik> Goodnight John Boy Jack!!
Jack> Thanks ! good night and SWEET DREAMS !!!
roderik> You too
Jack> tnx
Session Close: Sat Jul 08 16:13:39 2006