• Laly, Beauregard, Salty, and newbies Marty, Darwin, and Ballfearga join Jack for a discussion of furballs in the form of repressed anger, the use of stimulation during practice, and early Echo Effects.
• Marty shares that he has discovered having a lot of suppressed anger. Jack asks if he has explored professional help for dealing with his furballs. Marty has been hesitant to do so because he does not believe he can be helped since he doesn't understand how he can be helped. Laly shares that she had difficulty getting help initially but is glad she made the call. Marty says that he will make the call for help in dealing with his issues.
• Darwin has been practicing KSMO after experimenting with Kegel exercises, prostate stimulation and the Aneros device. He says that prostate stimulation and KSMO have lead to testicular pain. Jack questions how he has approached the practice. darwin describes a typical practice session and mentions using erotica for stimulation. Jack suggests not using the Aneros or erotica during the practice and instead focusing on meditation, breathing, relaxing and following the practice as laid out in the pdf document. He also emphasizes less stimulation and letting go of trying to make anything happen.
• Ballfearga reports just beginning the Practice and getting some encouraging echos. Jack encourages him to post to the First Time Experiencing conference. Ballfearga asks if it is useful to repeat the Key Sound several times before sleep to influence the subconscious. Jack responds that as an amplifier the sound might tend to wake one up but also might set the stage for Key Sound orgasms in lucid dreaming.

Session Start: Sun Jun 25 11:45:33 2006
Jack> Hi everyone! Welcome to newbies Marty and darwin. Welcome back Beau. Mucho gusto! Hi Laly!
Beauregard> Hi, Laly. I've read many of your chat transcripts.
Beauregard> With great interest.
Laly> aww thanks Beau.
Marty> Hello Lay
Marty> Thx Jack
Laly> hi marty and darwin.
darwin> hey
Beauregard> Buenas tardes, Jack.
Jack> It's our tradition to pass the Talking Stick to newbies, first, in order of appearance, so Marty how about you intro yourself a bit, but only share what you
Jack> feel ok sharing
Jack> in a public forum under your pseudonym. e.g. Where you're from,
Jack> age, marital status, orientation, anything else, and of course, any questions you may have, and
Jack> what your practice has been like so far.
Marty> Thanks good idea giving me some starting direction.
Marty> Yes I am from Ireland
Jack> Erin Go Braugh!
Marty> live and work on a farm
Marty> single
Marty> male straight
Marty> and very awkward and nervous around women I find attractive
Marty> I can't remember quite when I discovered the KSMO info
Beauregard> If you don't mind telling us, Marty, how old are you?
Marty> maybe a year ago
Marty> sorry of course 28
Beauregard> Thanks.
Laly> no worries marty.
Laly> please continue :-)
Jack> I'm really glad to see that you've come to the chat Marty!
Marty> I found this very interesting as I had been reading about Tantric sexual practices and multiple orgasms
Marty> Cool Jack
Marty> yes I meant to thank you for your last email
Marty> you are obviously very generous with your time and energy
Jack> Thanks!
Marty> So I tried practicing the KS
Marty> and initially did feel some small echo effects ...
Jack> what were they like?
Marty> this was a good while ago and for some reason I lost interest. I can't quite remember exactly
Marty> I think I wanted too much too quickly
Jack> Welcome to the human race!
Marty> yup!
Laly> yep.
Jack> How are you doing with that now?
Marty> also I think what I discovered recently
Jack> [ pls continue ]
Beauregard> I have to go away from the Keyboard for awhile. If my time comes up before I get back, please give it to someone else.
Jack> k
Marty> no its coming back to me
Marty> I got a sore throat
Marty> that's what it was - I decided to quit for a while
Jack> Were you trying to make a louder Key Sound to make the Echo Effects stronger ?
Marty> not louder
Marty> nope
Marty> I think I just had difficulty getting it right
Marty> was tense maybe
Jack> Do you have the second audio seminar that concentrates on Key Sound Training ?
Marty> I used to play the clarinet - just for fun
Marty> yes I have it
Jack> Ok.
Marty> I am going to listen again
Marty> to your cd
Marty> both of them
Laly> great-
Marty> I probably should have before this chat
Jack> No worries at all, Marty!
Jack> We don't do homework assignments.
Jack> You go at your own pace.
Marty> lol
Marty> good
Jack> That's a cornerstone of the practice in fact !
Laly> I still listen to them marty and 10 months for me
Marty> anyway I played the clarinet but gave it up for the same reason
Marty> I got a sore throat
Jack> Sounds like maybe a lot of tension there.
Marty> let me also say
Jack> yes pls
Marty> as I told Jack in email recently
Marty> I have discovered I have a lot of suppressed anger
Marty> and I do know I need proper help for this
Jack> Yes!
Jack> Crisis = Opportunity
Jack> "Crisis" in quotes of course. :-)
Marty> big f**** learning opportunity I know
Jack> AWARENESS = Opportunity !!!
Laly> patience and understanding are key marty
Jack> Yeah and I really agree with Laly on that. It's a VERY BIG DEAL that you are getting in touch with those emotional furballs Marty.
Marty> I was going to an acupuncturist and she alerted me to this idea
Marty> that I might have suppressed anger
Jack> Yeah that can often be converted to chronic tension in one's body.
Marty> Thanks
Marty> sure
Marty> I just don't know how to deal with anger
Marty> I am never angry
Marty> It feels like it is only ever destructive so I have rationalized it out of my communications
Laly> outwardly you may never show anger, but does show in other ways
Marty> I understand this too
Jack> What are your plans for getting the professional help you need?
Marty> I originally went to the acupuncturist for my back ache
Marty> I have a card of someone here on my desk Jack
Jack> Good! What's your next step?
Marty> Humanistic an integrative counselor
Marty> uhm
Jack> Ommmm...
Marty> I have slight difficulty picking up that phone
Marty> nerves etc
Laly> as did I marty
Jack> Are you waiting for it to feel easy?
Marty> I guess it won't
Marty> I just have to ring her
Jack> Laly how'd you handle that? Might be of help to Marty.
Jack> That your plan for this week, Marty?
Marty> hmm good idea Jack one small definite goal
Laly> OH- man that was the hardest call I ever made marty
Laly> but when I talked to the counselor and described what I happened to me - a weight
Laly> lifted off my shoulders and from my heart.
Jack> Precisely. Been there. :-)
Marty> I was told she was real gentle
Marty> and I keep thinking about how it might be you know
Marty> a weight off?
Marty> yup
Laly> yes
Marty> cool
Laly> am not a woman who shares that kind of personal info with a stranger
Marty> I have difficulty believing I can be helped if I don't have any understanding how it can happen
Marty> sure layl
Jack> Marty re: that last stmt I think you have it backwards. :-)
Laly> but that is what is so great - she can help with that too
Jack> VERY GOOD POINT LALY !!!
Jack> TEACH !
Laly> me too jack , but waited for u to respond.
Jack> no worries. :-)
Marty> reconstruct it for me
Jack> Go ahead Laly if you would please.
Laly> u said "I have difficulty believing I can be helped if I don't have any understanding how it can happen"
Laly> I think Jack means that should be
Laly> the opposite
Marty> If i ...
Jack> Yeah, it's VERY common in the male enculturation package...
Marty> If I don't have any understanding ..etc I have
Laly> how can it happen thus difficulty believing u can be helped.
Jack> the idea that you have got to be able to think your way all the way through
Jack> to a solution before you can ask for help.
Marty> I have no belief I can be helped
Marty> sure
Marty> I get it
Marty> I do that a lot
Laly> but u set a trap to start with marty
Jack> Yeah I hear you Marty, that's why they call it an act of faith.
Jack> Yep you're right Laly!
Laly> if you believe u can't be helped from the get-go
Laly> then u are going to resist it
Marty> yup . I don't understand the good in anger so I repress it
Marty> yes I get ya
Laly> but if you repress it - it just builds til POW
Laly> trust me I know from experience marty
Marty> yup I have felt the effects for some time - I have suppressed all my good energies with the bad
Laly> uh huh.
Marty> I have no 'get up an go'
Marty> no assertiveness etc
Laly> very familiar
Marty> all that positive passion an zest fer life
Marty> is suppressed with the anger
Laly> you are describing me 10 months ago marty- to a T.
Jack> That's a VERY PRODUCTIVE AWARENESS Marty re: suppressing the good with (strikethru "bad") the blocked energies - the UNHEALED WOUNDS .
Marty> wow really
Laly> yes marty.
Marty> wow cool
Jack> Marty, you are not alone .
Marty> thank you
Laly> OH NO - never alone.
Jack> Hey Zed! Welcome back!
Laly> hi z HUGS.
zeitgeist> :-D
Jack> Meet newbies Marty and darwin !
zeitgeist> Hugs all round!
zeitgeist> hi peeps!
Jack> Marty's been doing some great sharing about anger furballs that have come up in his practice ... Laly's been sharing
Jack> with him some of that territory that is familiar to her from 10 months past .
Laly> yep.
Jack> Darwin is standing by VERY PATIENTLY and darwin, feel free to add any thoughts you might like to share with Marty as well !
Marty> I have known I needed help for quite some time and now is the time to go get it
Marty> yes
Jack> YAYUH Marty!
darwin> I'm 45, married. Philly. I got started w/ alternative sexual stimulation many years ago, reading the book ESO (Extended Sexual Orgasm). That led me to Kegel exercises and prostate stimulation. more recently, I started to explore with the Aneros. that led me to MMO. I've been tinkering on and off for a few years. never got to the big O, but, have had lots of good feelings. my main problem is that prostate stim, and
darwin> even KSMO leads me to have testicular pain, which really stinks. I want to ask a bit about that, and, to describe how I'm attempting KSMO.
Marty> I was just gonna say thanks for all your support and kind words
Marty> and pass on the mike
Marty> I know what I need to do before we meet again !
Jack> Ok Marty, VERY GOOD WORK thank you for sharing your real self with us today ! I'd like to ask you
Laly> marty I am here too- if you want to talk as well.
Jack> if you'll go ahead and make a post to the Forum blogging that you made the call and how it went.
Jack> Laly, that is VERY kind and generous - as always! :-)
Laly> *blushing
zeitgeist> ...as always.. ;_0
Jack> LOL!
Marty> ok I will try Jack. Thank you Laylroth - sounds true indeed
Jack> Try or do ? Marty ?
Laly>
Marty> I will make the call
Jack> Yayuh!!!
Laly> whoo oooooo hoooo
Jack> Ok !!! Darwin, thanks very much for your patience, and for introducing yourself to us .
Marty> so go on to an listen to Darwin - patient as a saint
darwin> good luck marty... and DO go ahead with it
Laly> hello Ballfearga
Marty> Thanks man I will
Jack> Welcome Ballfearga - we have just passed the Talking Stick to Darwin. You are next after darwin if you like.
Jack> Yeah well said, darwin. Thanks for that.
zeitgeist> Apologies everybody, I've been called away, I will talk/post soon!
Laly> take care Z
Jack> Bye Zed we'll miss you !!! Hope all's well.
zeitgeist> cu soon!
Beauregard> I'm back at the keyboard, when my time comes.
Jack> K, Beau... we're passing the Talking Stick to the newbies first then you. :-)
Beauregard> Sure thing ... I just wanted to let you know I'm back.
Jack> Yeah tnx Beau!
Jack> Ok Darwin. You said you had some questions about your practice. Are you using the Aneros with practice every time?
darwin> no, I'm laying off the Aneros because it is more likely to aggravate my pain
Jack> Yeah, the Aneros ADDS STIMULATION . So it's more icing than cake in relationship to this practice . Usually better left until AFTER you've
Jack> established a strong relationship with the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol practice - that's my intuition about it anyway .
Jack> How about you describe a practice session?
darwin> most recently, I've been trying the every-other-day for a 20-30 minutes.
Jack> How you prepare, what time of day, etc.
darwin> I do it in the evening. I prepare by looking at some erotica, etc.
Jack> Yes no more than every other day. Very important to give your body a chance to INTEGRATE BETWEEN practice sessions .
Jack> Why do you think you need erotica?
Jack> That counts as stimulation :-)
darwin> well, it just gets me a bit in the mood.
darwin> then, I sit in my desk chair with my feet either on the desk or on the chair, and RELAX my pelvic floor.
Jack> Ok. Just for fun, how about you pass on that for a while you can always come back to it later - just maybe some relaxing breathing
Jack> or a little meditation - QUIETING rather than trying to rev up .
darwin> and, I let soft pleasure emanate from the bottom of my body.
darwin> then, I do slow breathing, just relaxing and letting the pleasure rise.
darwin> I do some Key Sounds,at most every third breath. but, sometimes I just do them silently, or not at all
Jack> You mentioned feet on the desk or chair, are your legs fully relaxed or is there tension in them e.g. to maintain the upright position ?
Jack> Care to answer any of my questions ? :-)
darwin> they are relaxed
Jack> k thanks. I'm just trying to do a survey for possible areas of tension in your body as that can tend to create blockages or at least difficulty for the energy
Jack> to move up and down your body as things get going .
darwin> ok
Jack> You mentioned the pain in your testicles, has that continued into recent practice ?
darwin> yes
Jack> Without the Aneros?
darwin> yes. but, recently I've been adding in that I put external pressure on my perineum, with three fingers (that feels really good)
Beauregard> Darwin, have you by any chance consulted a physician about your testicular pain?
Jack> Thanks Beau. That was my next question !
Laly> I thought that ? 20 min
Laly> when he 1st said something
darwin> about 8 urologists. I'm currently having pelvic floor physical therapy (to stretch and relax the pelvic floor muscles, as the theory is that the pain is referred from tense muscles
Jack> Also, re: perineum pressure, is that a constant pressure that you apply during the practice?
darwin> about half way through I begin, and then, yeah, I hold it.
Jack> Ok, doing a little checklist here ...
Jack> have you recently read the pdf document Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol Summary Update ?
darwin> not that recently
darwin> (I should add that my most recent session I felt that I was quite close to going over.
Jack> Ok. That's really the basic summarized step by step guide . I recommend that you give it a careful read and just to find out what
Jack> might happen differently - follow it closely for a while .
Marty> I just want to sympathize with your testicle pain -yeeowch- major uncomfortable I hope you can get it sorted out
darwin> ok
Jack> RE: Getting back to basics :
Jack> I recommend that you for now forgo the erotica before beginning practice .
darwin> ok
Jack> Replace it with a RELAXATION practice e.g. relaxing breathing , meditation etc.
darwin> ok
Jack> Also, is it possible for you to have at least one if not more of your maximum three sessions per week happen earlier in the day ?
darwin> not with my schedule
Jack> 7 days a week - immutable ?
darwin> well, yeah, I could try on the weekend.
Jack> Oh. :-)
Jack> Great! I hope you'll take advantage of that opportunity .
darwin> ok
Jack> Just to find out what you might find out :-)
Jack> Also:
Jack> As per the MOT Protocol pdf guideline ( not canon law - but it IS a TIME-TESTED guideline )
Jack> Rather than constant pressure on the perineum, or anywhere else,
Jack> explore the POWER of LESS STIMULATION
Jack> the POWER of the TEASE if you will ... and by that I mean to replace the constant pressure
Jack> on the perineum with as the pdf says a SINGLE touch or caress, PAUSE - It's ok to maintain LIGHT CONTACT but not pressure - just for now to find out -
Jack> and as you pause that SINGLE caress of the perineum - or anywhere else you like -
darwin> ok. I just recently add stimulation at all. I previously was doing it exclusively with breathing and sound.
Jack> a gentle, unforced Key Sound two or three relaxing breaths and repeat for twenty minutes -
Jack> OH and ...
Jack> VERY IMPORTANTLY -
Jack> PLEASE LET GO of trying to make anything happen like orgasm or a rush or anything - just use the practice as a
Jack> means of exploring how you can GENTLY awaken these deeper more powerful response ,
Jack> as you would gently rock someone awake from a very long slumber .
Beauregard> Darwin, when the pleasure emanates from your bottom just after you relax, as you described earlier, does the breathing and sound alone amplify it?
darwin> yes, definitely.
Beauregard> Well, there you go.
Jack> Good question Beau !
Jack> GREAT news Darwin !
darwin> you're right, I was trying a little (no-no) acceleration with the pressure
Jack> The KEY SOUND is THE ACCELERATOR PAR EXCELLENCE :-)
darwin> here's an important question: how much is the prostate and pelvic floor necessary to the orgasm?
Jack> I don't know for sure - my intuition is that FAR less so than with ejaculation - since these orgasms have a way of originating from
darwin> let me re-phrase that. coming from the Aneros, the key there is a slight contraction of the pelvic floor, to lead to the autonomous vibration. how do contractions of that area relate to KSMO?
Jack> different loci at different times e.g. Heartgasms often seem to originate from the heart and may or may not have a strongly erotic component .
Beauregard> My wife says she sometimes has orgasms in her mouth. I leave to your imagination what she is doing with her mouth.
Jack> Oh thanks for clarifying. In that sense, Darwin, I'd say not at all ... as in intentional contractions - spontaneous that of course is quite possible .
darwin> so, you don't feel your bottom pulsing as the pleasure rises?
Jack> [ the thanks for clarifying was to Darwin ]
Jack> You may or may not !!!
darwin> (that is the key to the Aneros, as i understand it)
Jack> Yes but it is NOT the key to this practice :-)
darwin> ok, well that's good news because the contractions in the pelvic floor might lead to the pain...!!!
Jack> The Key to this practice is the practice .
Jack> Yeah like I said darwin - for now just set that aside and explore getting back to unembellished basic practice as suggested in the MOT Protocol pdf. And pls do post to the Forum what you discover from that, plus of course any questions .
Jack> Welcome Saltys!
Salty> We're away from the computer for a bit, but we'll be back.
Jack> no worries - glad you could make it !
Jack> Ok darwin have we been helpful to you ?
darwin> yep... time for others....
Jack> I look forward to hearing what you might learn from these changes in practice .
darwin> ok
Jack> Ok, Ballfearga thank you very much for your patience and Welcome !
Jack> Where are you typing from ?
Ballfearga> Thank you!
Ballfearga> Do you mean from which country?
Jack> Yes - generally city if you want but as with everything here : To the extent you are comfortable doing so in a public forum under your pseudonym would you pls
Ballfearga> Well I live in Belgium, in Brussels.
Jack> IF you like share age marital status orientation experience with the Multiple Orgasm Trigger practice .
Jack> Thanks! I'm very glad you could make it !
Jack> Anything else you'd like to share - and of course - how may we help you ?
Ballfearga> I just began the practice this week. I have had two sessions so far, for trail runs than real sessions. No particular problems. Some encouraging echos.
Jack> That sounds perfect this early on !
Jack> Would you describe what the Echoes are like ?
Ballfearga> At this point I have no particular problems. I am just sitting in to see what a chat session is like.
Jack> Ok great ! That's fine . You're welcome to ask later on - because sometimes things other people
Jack> may share can trigger associations or questions so feel free to ask or comment ok ?
Ballfearga> As regards the echos, I get a contraction in my genital area, a feeling of tension? or excitement? in my tummy. Perhaps butterflies?
Jack> Yep that sounds right on track !
Jack> CONGRATULATIONS you have begun to open those gateways !
Ballfearga> I will post to the Forum in a few days time to introduce myself and describe how I am getting on.
Jack> That's great Ball, because that also helps others as well.
Ballfearga> I do have one question. Is it useful to repeat the sound several times before going to sleep, to help it embed itself in the un/sub/conscious?
Jack> How about posting to the First Time Experiencing Conference ? You can start a thread there and make it your blog :-)
Jack> That's a very interesting question ! It does have an appeal . The one contraconsideration might be is that the Key Sound is an AROUSAL AMPLIFIER so there
Jack> may be in some instances the effect of waking you back up . On the OTHER hand that might actually SET THE STAGE FOR KEY SOUND ORGASMS IN LUCID DREAMING.
Ballfearga> That would be fun!
Jack> Stay tuned Brother ! :-)
Jack> Oh yeah, and change the would to will :-)
Jack> Wanna see what happens when you type that ?
Ballfearga> It is now time to go to bed here in Belgium. Thank you for the hospitality.
Ballfearga> Yes, I will retype that: That WILL be fun!
Jack> Thanks very much Ball... b4 you go, would you care to type the line "That WILL be fun."
Jack> ?
Jack> Just to anchor the difference between would and will ?
Jack> Ah you did it! Thanks!
Ballfearga> Have just done so, but in case you did not see it, here goes again: That WILL be fun!
Laly> congrats ball- on a great start K HUGSS.
Jack> Yeah keep practicing THAT too, Ballfearga ! Sweet Dreams !
Ballfearga> Thank you all, best wishes and speak to you soon!
Jack> GREAT !
Jack> Bye for now .
Jack> Ok, Beauregard you have the Talking Stick if you'd like - and
Jack> thank YOU for YOUR patience and your contributions thus far .
Beauregard> You're welcome.
Beauregard> I like the idea of Key Sound orgasms in lucid dreaming.
Jack> And Best Wishes to Anisette!
Beauregard> Thanks, and the same to Jackie.
Beauregard> Since I haven't been around since last August, should I give a brief bio for the new people?
Jack> Thanks! RE: lucid dreaming Shiva and others have posted about this in some detail .
Jack> Yes please great idea re: the bio .
Beauregard> OK. I am 70 years old, happily married to Anisette for 30+ years, straight, living in Ajijic, Mexico.
Beauregard> I began the Key Sound practice about 2 years ago, and have drifted in and out of it since then.
Beauregard> I haven't practiced since last August, however.
Beauregard> Jack, last time we talked, you offered to listen to my Key Sound over Skype ... is the offer still good?
Jack> Yes thanks to skype I can do phone consults pretty easily to just about anywhere on the globe that has even landline phone service .
Jack> Pls send me an email and we will schedule.
Beauregard> OK. I have your Skype address, and I will be calling soon to establish mutual authentication.
Jack> k Great!
Beauregard> My Skype address is b...rd. (Don't want to give away too much of my email address).
Jack> Got it. Thanks!
Beauregard> Just so you don't think it's an Internet scam artist trying to call you.
Laly>
Jack> LOL how am I gonna be sure about THAT LOL!!! What else would like to share or ask today Beau ?
Beauregard> LOL.
Jack> See I don't really know why you went to Mexico. LOL.
Beauregard> Just as a side note, your Akiva digital signature has expired.
Jack> Thanks for the reminder on that my service provider will get a reminder. Thanks!
Beauregard> As for sharing, I think I'd like to wait until our Skype conversation; I just wanted to get in touch again.
Jack> Ok that's fine Beau. I look forward to talking with you again !
Jack> We can now pass the Talking Stick to the Saltys if they like... AHOY !
Beauregard> In any case, I need to leave soon. Anisette is part of a committee called "Ajijic Limpio", and I have to go help her clean the garbage off the streets.
Jack> Way to go . Make it better where you can .
Beauregard> Good talking to you all. I'll stay on line, just to read the transcript when I get back.
Jack> You bet !
Beauregard> Hasta luego!
Jack> Si senor - y mucho gusto !
Jack> Saltys are you there, or just in logging mode ?
Jack> I guess they're in logging mode.
Laly> yea
Laly> said they'd be away for a bit
Jack> Is there anything else anyone would like to share or ask for today ?
Laly> just a hug to everyone from me
Jack> Thanks very much Laly and to you ! Thanks for sharing what you did today . You had a very powerful effect . I love those transglobal ripples !
Laly> thanks
Jack> You are very welcome. I wish everyone a wonderful week . See you in the Forum ! - JJ
Jack> Bye for now!
Laly> bye - sweet dreams Jack
Jack> Thanks Laly, you too !
Laly> marty and I are on side chat ok
Jack> oops I may have just pulled the plug on that. If I did, sorry. I think you're ok though.
Jack> bye!
Laly> k
Session Close: Sun Jun 25 13:42:42 2006