• Laly, Hans, Rebecca, Sander, Salty, Zeitgeist, and KJ join Jack for a discussion of early Echo Effects, low energy levels, making the Key Sound correctly, and practicing at higher levels.
• VERY IMPORTANT TIPS IN THIS CHAT ABOUT WHAT TO DO WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE NOTHING IS HAPPENING
• newbie Hans has been practicing for two weeks and mentions that he has used an Aneros device for a year. He is in the process of divorcing. Jack responds that he is sorry to hear about the changes but it seems like a good time for Hans to explore something new for personal growth.
• newbie Rebecca says that practice has been difficult because she has low energy and is trying to fix the problem with supplements. Jack inquires if she has consulted an MD. Rebecca responds that she has.
• Jack asks Rebecca if she has read the The Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol Summary Update pdf document. Rebecca replies that she has along with listening audio seminar. She mentions that she has gotten some pulsing sensations in between the times of practicing the Protocol. Jack says that is about right for this early in the practice and that it's more of a gradual awakening. He asks Laly if she can share some insights. Laly tells Rebecca that the Echo Effects can fade because the body is learning a new thing and may need time to adjust to the new feelings or experience. She suggests relaxing and don't think, just feel. Jack says that it is a CONSISTENT PATTERN for the Echoes to VARY in intensity and that it is not a linear experience like using a vibrator or other high stimulation practices.
• Rebecca wonders is she is making the Key Sound correctly and remembers reading that a deeper sound is better. Jack replies that it should be deeper WITHOUT STRAINING because pushing introduces tension which often blocks rather than facilitates energy flow. Laly suggests laying her non stimulating hand on her chest and see if she feels any vibration in the chest or throat area. rebecca asks if it is important for the low sound to go up at the end as in the recording. Jack replies that there should be a ROLLING quality in the middle of the Key Sound and that is what gives the arousal level a little push. He goes on to say that the biggest misunderstanding about the practice is that when little Echo Effects DO happen that they are dismissed as not enough or not strong enough.
• Hans mentions that he has been using Viagra but started having eyesight problems. Jack replies that with the practice he is likely to start seeing things differently withOUT the blue haze. He asks Hans to describe a typical solo practice session. hans replies that he is doing the 20 minute session every other day, but is not getting much of anything. Jack asks him to describe "not much of anything". hans says that he has to really try and breath in between the Key Sounds as he is half asleep. Jack suggests doing something to warm up prior to practice. Laly suggests meditation. Jack also says ANY AUTOMATIC response after the Key Sound is a sign of progress.
• newbie Sander says that he purchased the audio seminar several years but had not had the time to start practicing yet. Jack asks if he has the 20050127 revision of the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol Summary Update pdf and also recommends the second audio seminar as it has the 20 minute follow up demo of him doing the Key Sound. sander asks if the KSMO practice will allow him to control ejaculation. Jack replies that the Protocol allows one to access the orgasmic energy without triggering the ejaculation reflex.
• Salty volunteers that the Echo Effects are slowly getting better. Jack notes that pattern and says that is RIGHT ON TRACK in spite of the tendency to label this as not much. Salty says she tends to focus on trying to make something happen so she is trying to take Lalys advice to just let thing happen. Jack notes this is an excellent self-calibration and that the impatience is a TRAP which indicates lack of TRUST. salty mentions that she and her partner practice in separate space and check in with each other. Jack suggests a variation of doing the session at different times for a least one session a week. He compliments Salty on the way they are sharing the practice.
• Zeitgeist reports that he is getting a lot of Effects at the higher levels in his practice and is generating a lot of energy. Jack offers his congratulations and notes the many insightful posts he has made in the forum. KJ asks how long Zietgeist has been practicing.
• Zeitgeist replies 3 months. Jack comments that everyone has their own pace and that record is 7 years.
• Jack concludes by thanking all for their participation and notes that the chat has gone for almost 4 hours.

Session Start: Sat Jun 10 12:01:08 2006
JackMGR> Hi Laly, Hi Pred!
Laly> HI jack, Hi Pred.
Jack> How are YOU, Laly?
Laly> been better Jack - been sick for few days .
Jack> Dang... very sorry to hear that. I hope you notice slight improvements
Jack> a little sooner than you might expect... :-)
Laly> yes.
Laly> heart is singing again at least .
Jack> That's where it all begins! :-)
Laly> .
Laly> still have the energy flow-sensations along my back though
Jack> I hope those are soothing for you.
Laly> very comforting yes
Laly> do not over-analyze them , just enjoy them
Laly> and smile.
Jack> Yeah, and if we can access a little gratitude even at times like this...
Laly> uh huh.
Laly> being sick sure messes with the energy flow.
Jack> To say the least!
Jack> I hope you have some soothing teas and such to help you along.
Jack> Welcome hans! Pls say to Ms. laly from the Midwest. Where are you typing from hans?
hans> Florida
Laly> welcome Hans.
hans> Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here
Laly> I agree with that hans- it IS a pleasure for sure.
hans> Hahahaha
Jack> So that we may get to know you a little, but sharing only what you're ok with in a public forum, could you give us some idea of age, marital status, orientation, how long with the practice? Any, all or NONE of those questions. Always up to you! :-)
hans> Age 51, in process of divorcing, am a Newbie (two weeks since I found Jack) but have used an Aneros successfully for a year
Jack> I'm very sorry to hear about the changes you're going through. Seems like a good time to explore something new in your life for personal growth, though. :-)
hans> I have practiced the Key Sound three times per week without much happening EXCEPT I was with my new girlfriend (yay!) for 4 days of non-stop sex (thank God for Viagra) and I used the Key Sound with her and for the first time she had massive orgasms each day...I wonder if using the Key Sound helped that along?
Jack> Have you asked her?
Jack> Sounds like a GREAT time was had by all!
Laly> .
hans> No, but I advised her what I was doing afterwards and she just said, "well, I felt more responsive the past few days"
Laly> hmm.
Laly> hi rebecca.
Jack> Hi rebecca, welcome!
rebecca> hi
Jack> We're just saying hi to newbie hans from Florida, may we ask where you are typing from, generally?
rebecca> the los angeles area
Jack> Shakey Town! I grew up there. How is it for you there?
rebecca> I'm near the ocean so it's good.
Jack> That does sound very sweet. I'd also like to invite you
Jack> to intro yourself, while sharing only what you're ok with in a public forum using a pseudonym,
Jack> about what drew you to this practice, how long you have been exploring it, also if you wish, approx age, marital status, orientation, whatever you'd like but no more than that. :-)
rebecca> I bought the entire audio download version of multiples but have only accessed a small portion of it. I'm busy and am not a computer person so it has been very difficult. I'm almost wondering if I should get a refund and just get the basic seminars one and two on CD. I'm 46 and single and hetero.
Jack> Well about using the Library, I'll be happy to help you access all of the resources, just contact me by email and thanks to low-cost Internet calls while they last, I can
Jack> in a few minutes teach you how to access it the info. OR you can certainly change what you've got. Just contact me by email with a phone # and I'll call you back,
Jack> and make sure you have what you'd like for now, ok?
rebecca> I have low energy inok thanks that would be great.
Jack> Low energy generally?
Laly> - yeah Jack is sweet.
rebecca> Yes I have low energy and am trying to fix that with supplements, etc
Jack> How about hormone level checks, etc. Are you in consultation with your MD about that?
rebecca> Yes I've done hormone tests.
Jack> K. Thanks. I just always want to make sure that people are also getting the basic data to work with. How about Nutrition? Like maybe Andrew Weil's approach, etc.? That
Jack> might supplement the supplements. :-)
Jack> Meanwhile, did you get a chance to read the pdf document - The Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol Summary Update ?
rebecca> Yeah I'm doing all that. It's a longterm problem. I've listened to the orgasm sound and also the basic Protocol. The first or second time I tried it I did get a genital throbbing which I don't usually experience. but then later I didn't get that response. Also I got some pulsing--almost in my anal area in between the times I practiced the protocol. But then that stopped.
Jack> That sounds about right for this early in the practice. The Echo Effects don't just switch on and then stay on. It's really more of a gradual awakening, that
Jack> tends to happen in cycles and/or waves... Laly, would you have any thoughts you'd like to share about that?
Laly> Smiles - sure Jack
Jack> Thanks!
Laly> since I am female- will help ya
Jack> Maybe start by letting our newbies know about how long you've been practicing, and little about you.
Jack> Ahoy Salty! Welcome back! We're talking with Laly, and newbies rebecca from LA and hans from Florida.
Laly> 35 years old, single, been practicing for 10 months
Laly> hi salty!
Jack> Laly, any of what rebecca's reporting sound familiar? :-)
Laly> oh yeah - very familiar
Salty> Just a quick hello, then gotta leave the computer for a bit
Jack> k, thanks for being here!
Laly> rebecca - it has been for me
Laly> on and off for a few months now
Laly> in regards to my practice
Laly> but daily now I still have what Jack terms them as "Echo Effects"
rebecca> That's nice.
Laly> There are many things - like your low energy that can affect your practice as well
rebecca> I just have to practice more. and yes, my low energy makes me not want to practice and makes it practice less effective I imagine.
Jack> I think also, rebecca,
Laly> uh huh- my advice?
Jack> pls continue!
Laly> thing I found works for me rebecca
Laly> is that I take my mind out of the practice
Laly> I don't think- just feel
Jack> How about when the Echoes happen but then fade?
Laly> well for that Jack - is like you have said before
Laly> your body is learning a new thing
Laly> and may need time to adjust to these new feelings or experiences
rebecca> I don't think much either. i don't fantasize or anything.
Laly> I don't either rebecca- i just relax and let whatever happens- happen.
rebecca> maybe the Echo Effects faded because I didn't practice for as long as the first time. or maybe it's like you said, the body will adjust and not respond consistently.
Laly> Either is possible.
Laly> everyone responds not the same way to KSMOT practices.
Laly> but we do have similar feelings and thoughts
Laly> that we share in the forums
rebecca> I'm looking forward to listening to all the audios so then I think I'll have more motivation to practice. Right now I'm not sure I have all the info I need to do it correctly.
Laly> that is great - very happy to hear that .
Jack> And I will help you access that information! Yeah I agree with Laly, and it's important to remember that it's a CONSISTENT PATTERN for the Echoes to VARY in intensity.
Laly> yes.
Jack> It's not linear like using a vibrator or other high stimulation practices
Jack> where you just GO for it.
rebecca> all I know about is what the sound sounds like and that you're supposed to use and then stimulate yourself lightly and then breathe for a few breaths.
Jack> Yeah that's it,
Jack> and what you get are those little tingles.
Jack> Whoop de doo, eh?
Jack> :-)
Jack> But the thing is, that what the little tingles tell you, those AUTOMATIC tingles,
Jack> it that you HAVE established SOME kind of NEW connection with your sensual self... with
Jack> the sensual and emotional resources that maybe you haven't had access to before. Those
Jack> tingles signal that you sent a message to your deeper responses using that light touch and the arousal-amplifying gentle Key Sound,
Jack> and your deeper responsiveness sent back... Echoes... that is, connection established!
rebecca> I haven't listened to the sound recording in awhile. maybe I'm not doing it right. and my voice is not very low. I remember reading that a deeper sound is better.
Laly> sound volume makes no difference rebecca.
rebecca> No I meant a lower tone not a louder one.
Jack> Deeper WITHOUT STRAINING no part of the practice should ever be strained. If you're pushing then that introduces tension and often that kind of tension blocks rather than facilitates energy flow.
Jack> Yes, re: lower, just a low, relaxed, maybe slightly husky sound... but no need
Jack> to try to force your voice lower.
rebecca> ok I'll go as low as I can without straining
Jack> That's it!
Jack> No straining in any part of practice.
Laly> rebecca - can I suggest something?
rebecca> by all means
Laly> next time you practice- try laying your non-stimulating hand on your chest
Laly> and see if you feel any vibration in the chest or throat area.
rebecca> anywhere on my chest?
rebecca> alright
Laly> I lay mine between my heart
Laly> and breasts.
rebecca> I'll try that thanks. Is it important for the low sound to go up at the end as in the recording?
Laly> no- just as long as you are comfortable with.
Laly> any more and you would be straining.
Jack> You want the ROLLING quality in the middle of the sound though. It's not just a single tone.
Laly> yeah that too - what jack said.
Jack> That's why in the Key Sound Training seminar, the second one,
Jack> I give that follow-along demo. You can use it to follow along with if you're ok with that, or if
Jack> not just listen and practice imitating with that gentle roll in the middle of the sound. That's
Jack> what gives the arousal level a little push.
rebecca> so I just make the sound and let it trail off however it wants? I don't know what you mean by rolling sound.
Jack> The Key Sound has two parts. Words only go so far with that. When we talk about how to access the resources, I'll let you know
Jack> if you're making the KS correctly or not, ok?
Jack> It IS important to make it more or less the way I demo, to get the effect.
Jack> Since we are not using more direct stimulation to build arousal,
rebecca> that would be great! does the sound in the demo activate a response on its own or is it only my voice that will do that?
Jack> we need an alternative, that's why I discovered the Key Sound. The roll in the middle AUTOMATICALLY moves our tummy in a way that
Jack> tends to give whatever arousal is around a very slight push in intensity. Just a little higher...
Jack> then like I said, it may fluctuate in intensity, but over a series of practices sessions, if you just
Jack> approach it as Laly suggests, just relaxing and being with yourself for that 20 minutes, and without trying to "make" anything happen,
Jack> over time those Echoes tend to get stronger and stronger. Let's see, didn't you say that you felt some effects even after the practice or
Jack> after the active part of the practice?
Jack> Yeah, I just checked.
Jack> You said you were getting some throbbing BETWEEN practice sessions. That is right on track!
rebecca> yes I felt a sort of light rippling maybe in between the vulva and anus like wings fluttering. it was not pleasurable, just there.
Jack> The BIGGEST MISUNDERSTANDING that people have about this practice (and understandably so, given what we're used to) is that when those little Echoes DO happen, that they're "not enough" either strong enough or sexy enough or whatever.
rebecca> I didn't expect it to be more than it was. I thought it was encouraging that something happened.
Laly> rebecca - is great that you noticed that- most would discount it or ignore it.
Jack> Yeah, not pleasurable (yet???), just there. Yes, a fluttering, like a bird awakening in the morning and ruffling out it's feathers BEFORE IT TAKES FLIGHT.
rebecca> nice analogy.
Laly> *smiles.
Jack> Thanks. I hope that bird leads the way for you. :-)
Jack> Translation in all of this: even though you may not feel you have all the info yet,
Jack> or even really have your bearings with this very much, you actually seem to be right on track... what you are
Jack> experiencing and reporting at these very early stages are exactly what people report who later notice the effects becoming ever stronger.
rebecca> thanks for the encouragement-- I will email you and you can tell me about good times to call or however you want to do it. thanks to both of you Laly and jack.
Laly> welcome sander
Jack> Welcome newbie sander! I'm glad you made it!
Laly> hi deleon
sander> hi all.
Jack> Hi Deleon Welcome!
Laly> dleon
sander> brb
Jack> Yeah no underscores, picky picky on those usernames! :-)
dleon> hello good to be here
rebecca> hello deleon
Laly> your welcome rebecca- and I am here too if you ever want to talk
dleon> Jack thanks for your persistent emails ..... hard for me to get online on Saturdays
Laly> as well.
dleon> hello rebecca
Jack> You're very welcome rebecca! Does anyone else have anything to offer rebecca, based on what she's shared?
Laly> just a heart-y hug and congratulations from me .
rebecca> thanks and if I want to talk to you Laly I guess I could email you from one of your posts on the forum?
Laly> yes
rebecca> alright
Jack> It's also VERY helpful to other women, and to the men
Jack> who want to understand women better,
Jack> if you continue some of your dialogue, for example, in the Women's Experience conference of the Forum.
Jack> That way many many others will also benefit from your dialogue.
Laly> and we can respond back to them as well rebecca.
Jack> Ok! THANK YOU for sharing so much, rebecca, and again Welcome to the Adventure!
rebecca> alright. I'll try to learn to navigate on this forum. Thanks everyone. I have to go.
Laly> take care rebecca!
rebecca> I will.
Jack> Thanks very much for being here today rebecca!
rebecca> thank you too
Jack> Well hans, thank you for your patience!
Jack> Let's pass YOU the Talking Stick and help you however we might. :-)
Jack> hans, you still there, Brother?
Jack> Also, sander, could you pls tell us where you're typing from and a little about you e.g. age, marital status, orientation, any, all or no details, all within your comfort zone in a public forum under pseudonym... also how long
hans> oh yes I'm here
Jack> you've been practicing. Ah ok, here's hans shall we let him go first, then we'll pass the Talking Stick
Jack> to you sander. Are you ok for time I know it's getting late in your part of the world!
sander> ok jack
sander> its ok. 1030 here
sander> pm
Jack> K, thanks! Ok Hans... What questions do you have?
hans> Well, I acquired an Aneros about a year ago and after a while started having huge anal orgasms especially when I used Viagra with it...because the Big Ones took about an hour to work up to. Well, frankly I became addicted to Viagra and started having eyesight problems and that's how I found you....I don't think it will affect my sight!
Jack> Although you are likely to begin seeing things differently!
hans> Oh Yeaaa!
Jack> And without the Blue Haze.
hans> Yes, the Blue Haze is not good
Jack> I'm glad to hear you're getting the message.
hans> I don't have any specific questions now but will continue practicing diligently
Jack> Well I'm wondering about that diligent part.
Jack> What do you mean by diligent?
Jack> :-)
Jack> Would you pls a typical solo practice session?
hans> Hey if I can repeat the orgasms I had with the Aneros and Viagra without the Blue Haze I'll practice for months and months
Jack> Yeah but that's a trap, Brother.
Laly> uh huh.
hans> Typical solo practice session...you mean to ask "what are you doing with Jack's Key Sound method?" or what was I doing before?
Jack> When you use the Key Sound method.
Jack> Time of day or eve?
hans> Oh Ok, well, I have simply been doing the 20 minute exercise every other day
hans> It is done early in the morning
Jack> Great. That's plenty often.
Laly> great way to start the day .
hans> I initially had my Aneros inserted but figured out that that was probably not a good idea
Jack> Yeah, too stimulating in the beginning. At least alternate sessions, like two without, one with...
hans> OK, thanks for that tip
Jack> You're welcome! What's a practice like when you are not using the Aneros?
hans> Hmmm, well, I have limited time in the mornings so I am just following your lead using the audio 20 minute session and I'm not getting much of anything
Laly> can you describe "not much of anything" more ?
Jack> Describe not much of anything .
Jack> LOL!
Laly> sorry jack *blushing
Jack> Right on track LalyGrrl!
hans> I have noticed that I really have to try and breath in between the Key Sounds...Maybe I'm still half asleep but it's like I have to really focus on that
Jack> [Don't apologize for knowin yer stuff, sistah Laly!]
Laly> just 1 breath in between?
Laly> thanks jack
Jack> First thing then might be to actually do some kind of more energizing warm up before practice, just to get awake.
hans> Not much of anything means that I am following your lead and modeling your sound and not concentrating on anything in particular...I usually try for 2-3 breaths but they don't seem to want to happen (?)
Jack> I don't mean all pumped up or anything, not overamped. Just some gentle stretching, tai-chi like stuff... something to just get the systems moving.
hans> Ah Ok, sounds like a good idea
Laly> I meditate before mine Hans.
Jack> What do you mean try for 2 or 3 breaths. Try what?
hans> I mean that my body just doesn't feel like breathing and that's probably because I am still half asleep
Laly> possible.
Jack> Ah ok. So better address that issue first. Just getting a little more of the juices flowing before beginning practice.
hans> Meditation sounds like another good idea and I'll do it too
Laly> .
Jack> Yeah, meditation helps you get centered, and MOVEMENT - GENTLE movement - free-form tai chi - like or something... not jumping jacks, just arm swinging go out and
Jack> walk around the house/apt once or twice, listen to the birds, etc. then come back in.
hans> Ok thanks
Jack> That kinda thing. :-)
Jack> One other thing:
hans> I'm with you
Jack> Most people, and very understandably, expect practice stimulate really noticeably erotic strong Echoes maybe by the end of the first session, etc.
Jack> The most common concern is nothing is happening or not much is happening .
Jack> In your instance, one element appears to be the issue of just getting the baseline body energy going first. We got that one id'd! :-) Next though,
Jack> a lot of times people actually NOTICE the automatic Echo Effects but then label them as nothing or not much because they are so faint and often not particularly sexy
Jack> in the beginning.
hans> I will have patience and keep practicing and being aware of any new sensations
Jack> I'm offering this to you hans, but also to all because I think it's about the greatest issue that gets people stuck early on.
Jack> Yeah, and just know that if there
Jack> is ANY
Jack> AUTOMATIC response... a tingle
Jack> a shake, a whatEVERRR... but it happens right after that Key Sound and it happens by itself - spontaneously -
Jack> AUTOMATICALLY - then that IS
Jack> the response beginning to awaken... BEGINNING to awaken... like the analogy I used earlier
hans> OK thanks!
Jack> with rebecca... the first stirrings are like the bird first awakening, ruffling its feathers before it takes flight. Therefore,
Laly> uh huh.
Jack> when you notice those, rather that comparing them to high-stim past experiences, just interpret them as a sign that you are starting
Jack> to learn something new and possibly quite different than what you've experienced or EVEN MIGHT IMAGINE - people say that you know -
Jack> it shows up in the Forum a lot: I had no idea it would feel like THIS !
Jack> I think ya got it, hans!
hans> Thanks!
Jack> I hope you'll post experiences to the Forum between chats so we can stay in touch with you on this.
hans> Ok, will do
Jack> Does anyone else have anything they'd like to offer hans about this?
Jack> Ok. Hans you all set for now?
hans> Yes, thanks
Jack> dleon, it's been a WHILE since we've chatted. I welcome you back!!! Can you stick around a while? I'd like to let newbie sander go next and it's nearly 11pm in his realm.
Jack> sander, are you there?
sander> thanks, jack. its getting close to bedtime for me
Jack> yeah that's what I thought so I want to be sure to reward
Jack> your patience (and your persistence in getting logged in!)... How goes practice? How may we help?
sander> ok, first time here, I'm 36 years, from Norway
Jack> Welcome!!!
sander> I do qigong, tai chi, shiatsu, meditation etc, and thought the MMO looked like it suited me
sander> I bought the MMO several years ago, but have not had the time to start practicing yet!
Jack> Oh yeah! Have you been reading any of Pan's posts re: that connection? He's done a great job articulating those connections, in many chats and posts throughout the Forum.
Jack> Ok, sander do you have the 20050127 revision of the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol Summary Update pdf?
sander> no
sander> I understand there has been improvements
sander> should I order the newer version?
Jack> Actually, I just sent you the pdf by email. If you haven't yet got the SECOND audio seminar,
Jack> The Multiple Orgasm Trigger Key Sound Training Seminar for Both Men and Women
Jack> I recommend you do so, as it has a 20 minute follow-along demo of my doing the Key Sound, with 3 relaxing
Jack> breaths in between. That's followed by 35 min training incl additional tips, comparing incorrect KS attempts with the real deal, etc.
Laly> I recommend it too sander.
Laly> extremely helpful for me .
Jack> Thanks Laly! And go ahead and give that pdf a read as soon as you can. I think it may help a great deal.
sander> ok, I don't know if I can find the original audio files anymore anyway
Jack> Funny you should mention that, cuz I just sent you the link to the
Jack> current version of the first seminar. Check your in-box for that too. Then by all means I natcherly recommend the second seminar - that's why I did it! LOL... But also
Jack> because it concentrates on correct Key Sound articulation. It's the arousal-building Key Sound that we use INSTEAD of more stimulation, in order to build
Jack> arousal to intensity that high stimulation almost never delivers, esp for men, since high stim triggers ejaculation BEFORE you have a chance to get
Jack> to the REALLY higher intensity levels.
sander> ok. I have one more question
Jack> You bet!@
sander> if I understand correctly, this system is based on reaching orgasm without ejaculation..
Jack> orgasmS
sander> because when ejaculation happens, its all over?
sander> yeah, plural..
Laly> typical EO's yes
sander> EO?
Laly> ejaculation orgasms
Jack> typically. Although when you learn to use this method to open up the non-ejaculatory multiple orgasmic response, then
Jack> the orgasm(s) you do experience WITH ejaculation also tend to be more pleasurable and the waves often tend to last somewhat longer than previously. BUT,
Jack> the REAL payoff is by not GOING FOR ejaculation until you're truly ready for THAT experience... meanwhile you can hang out for 10 minutes to three hours or however
Jack> long you want in a high-intensity multi-orgasmic zone where you can go up to orgasm whenever you like.
Laly> uh huh.
Jack> It's like there's this giant pool of orgasmic energy and you just drink from it all you want. That's what this practice opens for you.
sander> ok. my reason for looking into this is that i feel that even if my arousal gets high
sander> my orgasm is just like a joke
sander> it seems to me
Jack> Your orgasm or your ejaculation?
sander> both
Laly> no pleasure in it?
Jack> Ok. But it's very important to not keep mooshing them together. That's where guys especially can get confused.
sander> it seems to me that increased stimulation decreases the pleasure of the final
Jack> It's very important to make the COGNITIVE distinction between orgasm - rushes of pleasurable energy - and ejaculation - emission of ejaculate fluid.
Laly> it does sanders - I speak of that from experience.
Jack> YES! I agree with you that more STIMULATION actually CROWDS OUT the higher levels of arousal. That's why I developed this protocol. To solve that.
sander> never got to the actual question.....
Jack> Pls press on!
Jack> :-)
sander> my experience so far, without MMO, is that I can have multiple ejaculations if I just can control the orgasm
sander> by multiple I mean two
Laly> control? hmmmm
Jack> Why do you want two ejaculations?
Jack> Or did you get that backwards?
Jack> Did you mean to say that you can have multiple orgasms if you can just control the ejaculation?
Jack> Welcome back rebecca!
sander> I think an ejaculation without orgasm is really pleasuring, and then the orgasm will be stronger when it comes
Salty> ?
Jack> Do you have a question for sander, Salty? Please ask!
Salty> What ARE you talking about?!
Salty> I don't understand.
sander> I do believe my English is understandable?
Salty> My wife and I have trouble understanding each other.
Laly> I understand sander - is just confusing us
Salty> also.
Jack> Yes, I think so... but you may be trying to describe an experience that is not familiar to people.
sander> ok
sander> this is why I was wondering about the MMO system....
Jack> Sander. By ejaculation you mean the emission of seminal fluid as a result of contractions of the prostate gland, is that correct?
sander> yes, jack
Jack> Ok.
sander> .. because it seemed to be the
sander> opposite of my own experiences
sander> for you, ejaculation is the end
sander> for me the orgasm is the end
Laly> ok.
sander> but I can only do two ejaculations
sander> is this clear enough?
Jack> Yes. My question is, is that the way you want to continue? That is are you wanting KSMOT practice to give you more ejaculations so you'll have
Jack> one stronger orgasm?
sander> no, as I told you, I'm well into the eastern medicine, and there it is
sander> thought that one should not ejaculate to often
Jack> Yes, some even say never.
Laly> yep.
sander> my goal is to increase the experience of sex in a healthy way
Laly> hi Z ... welcome.
Jack> how do you feel that the KSMOT practice may help you in that?
zeitgeist> hiy'all!
Jack> Hi Z!
zeitgeist> hi JJ!!
zeitgeist> don't let me interrupt...
zeitgeist> for whom has the mic.
sander> It seems to focus on energies suppressed? by most people
sander> which may be a better way
Jack> What I'm confident that this practice can offer you is a way to not have to worry about
Jack> controlling or preventing ejaculation, while increasing arousal to multi-orgasmic intensity. As this skill
Jack> is learned over time, that reservoir of orgasmic energy becomes readily accessible, and there is no part of the
Jack> process that needs to be trying to hold back ejaculation. When the practice is followed, the orgasmic waves that is the Echo Effects evolved to orgasmic intensity -
Jack> begin occurring and may continue as long as you want, and there is no feeling of any ejaculatory Point of No Return, etc. When one DOES choose
Jack> to trigger the ejaculation reflex, then switching to higher stimulation etc. usually allows that to occur, often with residual
Jack> orgasmic waves for some time after. As far as I know, this practice does not extend or diminish the refractory period (i.e. the recharging period) between
Jack> times of ejaculation capability.
Jack> I'll be very int'd to read posts from you and hear from you here again after you've had a chance to read the Protocol pdf, and listen to the current audio seminar, and of course
Jack> if you do decide to get the Key Sound Training seminar, most certainly after you've had a chance to work with that as well.
sander> So it is not common to have the dual ejaculation ability that I'm experiencing?
Jack> I hope you'll maintain a thread of continuity with us by posting your experiences and questions to the Forum in the interim.
Jack> I really don't know if it is or not. Ejaculation has so much to do with an individual's hormone levels, DNA, health, diet, all of that... seemingly much more so
Jack> than the ability to experience orgasm (i.e. the feelings of intense pleasure).
Jack> I don't presume to be the last word on all that, just sharing my point of view. :-)
Jack> Is this helpful at all?
Laly> true- sex and orgasm and ejaculation have been debated sine the dawn of time.
sander> yes, thanks.
sander> just wanted to air my thoughts and experiences before I started the practicing
Jack> Please DO keep in touch through the Forum and come back to the chats. It's great to have you here, and there are others in the community who I'm sure would love
Jack> more dialogue with you about how this practice interfaces with the Asian traditions.
Laly> I would for sure .
Jack> You bet, sander, and I appreciate that very much!
Jack> dleon, were you able to hang around still, or are you just in logging mode?
sander> I'll get back when I have some experience
Jack> Yeah or post if it feels like nothing's happening. Just be aware that the most common misapprehension
Jack> is to notice automatic Echo Effects but because they are faint or not overtly sexual right off the bat, to mistakenly label them as nothing is happening or nothing much rather
Jack> than to FRAME that experience as a CLEAR indication that the CONNECTION in fact IS being established between the use of very low stimulation plus a gentle Key Sound and
Jack> relaxing breaths that in fact are BEGINNING to TRIGGER these AUTOMATIC responses. Once a person recognizes that in fact the connection HAS been
Jack> established, then it becomes just a matter of ALLOWING those effects to build AT THEIR OWN PACE with GENTLE nudging from the Key Sound and further relaxation.
Jack> That was quite a riff. But I like to reiterate it once in a while. :-)
Laly> .
Jack> Ok, may we pass the Talking Stick to Salty?
Jack> WHAT'S UP SALTY???
sander> Thanks again, I shall try my best
sander> I'm off to bed, getting late. Good night all!
Jack> Yeah, just take it easy and don't try too hard. This isn't a "hard" discipline in that sense.
Laly> nite sander and take care.
Jack> Thanks for staying up so late so you could make the chat!!!
zeitgeist> nite!
Salty> nite
Jack> Salty, what's new?
Salty> Well....
Salty> I'm thinking, I guess
Salty> must mean not much new,
Salty> maintaining about the same,
Salty> Echos seems to slowly be
Salty> getting better.
Jack> Ok!
Laly> sweet!!
Jack> See? There's that pattern. The Echoes are getting better, RIGHT ON TRACK, yet we and I do mean we have a tendency
Jack> to label this as not much !!!
Salty> I put too much focus
Salty> on trying to make something
Salty> happen, so
Salty> have been trying to do as
Salty> Laly says, let... .
Jack> Yeah that's an EXCELLENT self-calibration!!!
Jack> It's REALLY GREAT Salty that you are able to tell when you drift into that making something happen
Jack> mode - that is GREAT that you are aware of that! We ALL have that tendency, the important thing is to recognize that, and you're getting that!
Salty> Sometimes, yah.
Salty> My echos
Salty> seem to end
Salty> in one
Salty> tickle, or echo.
Salty> Then so more
Salty> until the next KS.
Jack> That sounds just right.
Laly> *grins.
Salty> But I want
Salty> them to continue,
Salty> wave after wave...!
Laly> thus the "trap" that jack mentioned.
Salty> yah.
Jack> That's why we call it practice :-)
Laly> wasn't until about my 2nd week of practice that I got a glimmer of those things salty.
Salty> impatient?
Jack> Naturally!
Jack> Understandably!
Laly> uh huh - I agree.
Jack> It's the impatience itself that is the trap.
Jack> Impatience is a lack of TRUST.
Salty> Laly, how do you'
Salty> not "think"?
Jack> A challenge of FAITH if you will.
Salty> I mean
Salty> keep from getting "fur balls".
Jack> You WANT fur balls!
Laly> my first 2 sessions I couldn't do it- shut off the mind noise/
Jack> If you've got stuff in there that needs to be healed, you WANT them to SURFACE so that you can GET ON WITH the process of healing,
Jack> so that you can open MORE.
Laly> there is NO avoiding the fur-balls
Salty> Sometime the
Salty> furballs
Salty> are really clutter
Laly> I agree with jack ,
Salty> and not serious
Salty> matters.
Jack> Yeah. That's what we mean by mind noise.
Salty> Lots of noise!
Laly> but is stuff that still interferes with your practice right?
Salty> yes.
Laly> ok- what I do is I meditate about 15 min before I start my practice
Laly> that is sit in room , no lights on
Laly> soft music
Laly> and let those thoughts just drift off
Laly> put them on a cloud and "push" them away
Salty> Yah, I can
Salty> see that we both
Salty> try to fit the time into
Salty> our schedule
Salty> so to speak.
Salty> Maybe less often
Salty> and more focused to
Salty> the KS and preparation
Salty> would be better
Salty> than the more frequent
Salty> practices?
zeitgeist> mediation works for me too...stilling the mind noise , tuning in to the body instead..
Laly> that is up to you salty.
Jack> Also, Salty are you describing the pattern where you each go to separate spaces and practice, then
Jack> check in?
Salty> Yes.
Salty> Usually the time is
Salty> pretty well
Salty> fitted into the
Salty> daily schedule.
Jack> Ok. Another variation to explore is at least one session per week, each of you do the session at DIFFERENT times, and save the check in for an hour or two later.
Salty> We don't always
Jack> Yeah daily schedule I certainly understand. :-)
Salty> report the sessions to each other.
Salty> Sometimes not til the next day.
Jack> Ok... Just see what happens when you claim a time that is yours, in addition to the times you share the practice in this very cool way that you do!
Laly> I keep a journal of my sessions - write down what O felt, experienced.
Laly> as well as post them to the forums.
Salty> A journal sounds good.
Jack> :-)
Laly> that way when I refer back to it - I am like - whoa I DID experience something different .
Jack> I REALLY want to compliment both Saltys on this wonderful communication you two have about the way you share your practice! VERY VERY COOL!
Jack> That's a VERY GOOD POINT Laly!
Laly> thanks Jack
Jack> READERS PLEASE NOTE !
Jack> :-)
Salty> Yep...
Salty> we do almost
Salty> everything together
Salty> or as much so as possible.
Jack> Very Sweet!
Laly> awesome .
Jack> I hope you'll post about what you discover from doing one practice session per week at a time that is different from your partner's.
Salty> Well, we'll
Salty> have to see if we can
Salty> do that,
Salty> and we will post

Salty> what we experience.
Laly> great.
Jack> Thanks! You know I get a real sweet feeling about where you two are going with this. I think it has to do with the open way you DO communicate with each other.
Salty> OK!
Jack> Just have faith that those little Echoes and tingles will continue to open at their pace, provided you don't chase after them - what KSMO veteran Andi referred to as chasing the fawn away - she counseled let it come eat out of your hand. That's how the stronger Echoes will come to you.
Jack> THANKS for being here again today. I love it when you two show up!
Laly> me too .
Salty> We always enjoy being able to take part, especially
Salty> what we learn from everyone there.
Jack> Yeah we all help each other. That's what I really love about this special community... and reaching across the globe while doing so! Zeit, that's your cue!
Jack> How are you doing tonight?
zeitgeist> ta da!!
Laly> lol.
zeitgeist> fine biz...
Jack> Cool Runnings!
zeitgeist> a special mention to laly.. :-)
Laly> awww
zeitgeist> ty for your continued feedbacks!
Laly> your welcome
zeitgeist> :-)
zeitgeist> so...
zeitgeist> just reporting in...I'm going through some adjustments
zeitgeist> at the higher energy levels as discussed on the forum...
Laly> how is that going for you?
zeitgeist> so will report back at the next level or interesting stuff comes up
Jack> Yeah search on keyword esoteric to grab the thread that zeit is referring to.
Laly> hi ya KJ - HUGSS
zeitgeist> going great.... I'm still getting a great deal of effects at the higher level,
Jack> Hi KJ was just thinkin about you! We're talking with zeitgeist who's - where are you? Germany?
KJ> Hey, so glad to be here, thanks for hugs, too... they're good for ya!
zeitgeist> I wanted some KSMO sessions to ensure it wasn't a one-off experience
KJ> Oh, hi Jack thanks for the thoughts
zeitgeist> I'm happy to report that
zeitgeist> the high levels are continuing
Laly> awesome .
zeitgeist> and I'm 'adjusting to them
zeitgeist> at the higher levels
Jack> slow relaxing breathing... :-)
zeitgeist> of volume of the KS...
zeitgeist> I noticed I can make a better ks because
zeitgeist> the trembling etc tended to distort it at the lower levels
Laly> uh huh.
zeitgeist> increasing the level sort of straightended it out
zeitgeist> :-D
Jack> Let that pony have the reins a bit, eh?
zeitgeist> REDIRECTING more energy
zeitgeist> for the pony
zeitgeist> to go where it wants to go...
Jack> How do you redirect the energy? I'm sure folks would like to know!
zeitgeist> so I got that new threshold!
Jack> CONGRATULATIONS!!!
zeitgeist> sure:
zeitgeist> BAGS of energy...
zeitgeist> the Key Sound *IS* key...
zeitgeist> the second part is essential...
zeitgeist> the first part of the KS sets it up...
zeitgeist> and I made a fine study of the second part... as provided
zeitgeist> and duplicated it...
zeitgeist> the ROLLING part is the nub...
zeitgeist> a full formation
zeitgeist> into the second part...
zeitgeist> and then to WAIT
zeitgeist> breathe normally
zeitgeist> tuning into the body space...
zeitgeist> NO mind noise
zeitgeist> and NOTICING for echo feelings
zeitgeist> the focus of concentration OUT of the head and
zeitgeist> in the body
zeitgeist> becoming viscerally aware
zeitgeist> noticing any subtle feelings
zeitgeist> growing and
zeitgeist> changing into significant feelings#
zeitgeist> remembering to breathe
zeitgeist> all as a system of growing
zeitgeist> feeling and self knowledge
zeitgeist> acknowledging feelings
zeitgeist> even if it seems unrelated...
zeitgeist> sudden spasms etc...
zeitgeist> not discounting what actually happens
zeitgeist> but realizing the ever growing different feelings
zeitgeist> a spectrum of these
zeitgeist> giving oneself more CONFIDENCE and self belief...
zeitgeist> that it IS working
zeitgeist> phew!
KJ> wow
zeitgeist> how that@?
Salty> wonderful!
Jack> BEE YOU TEE FULL!!!
zeitgeist> :-D
Laly> awesome!!
KJ> needs to be printed out
Salty> yes
Laly> *stands and applauding
Jack> Yeah, watch for it on the home page!
zeitgeist> [blushes]
Laly> applauding even lol.
Jack> Yeah Brother!
zeitgeist> so....
zeitgeist> real progress!
Jack> Yayuh!!!
Laly> yes
zeitgeist> ty all!
Laly> heartsong definitely for you right now .
zeitgeist> ding!
Jack> You are VERY welcome! And folks please note that zeitgeist has really USED the Forum - he's made many insightful posts as he has
Jack> worked his way through his own path with this.
KJ> that was SOME preachin'
Jack> Yeah Spirit-filled if ya ask me!
Laly> yeap.
Jack> Zeit, way to GROW, Brother!
KJ> Zeitgeist, how long have you been practicing, pray tell??
zeitgeist> about 3 months...
KJ> 3 Months!!
KJ> geez, fast learner
Salty> 3 months!!!
Jack> Everyone has their own pace. The record is 7 years and worth it, according to the record-holder Drew!
zeitgeist> I've had time on my side, I had some more time to practice
zeitgeist> since I work on my own account.
zeitgeist> with a slight work-life balance adjustment
Laly> Drew has had some amazing practices lately.
Jack> Yeah Laly, pls urge him to post!
Jack> That's great zeit, that you have been able to make some adjustments to accommodate
Jack> these new openings in your life. Way to go!
zeitgeist> TY and goodness knows what will happen next :-o anyway...
KJ> Jack , did you just say back there a bit that Drew was 7 years learning this??
Laly> so happy for you Z.
Jack> Yes KJ.
zeitgeist> time for someone else... ty laly!
Laly> I think more than that, but yeah.
Jack> He had a lot of furballs to work through, as he has documented in the chats and elsewhere in the Forum.
KJ> wow, way to encourage ME!
Jack> You goin' for the record?
Laly> and KJ- even a veteran like Drew - experienced some new things lately.
Jack> YEAH!
Jack> That's VERY IMPORTANT Laly!
KJ> no, hook me up with the fast learner action, please
Jack> The DOORS KEEP OPENING...
KJ> I'll have what he's having
Jack> You already are. You're just not noticing it much yet.
KJ> HA! you are SO fun
Laly> uh huh,
Jack> LOL!
Laly> I've been with this for 10 months KJ
Laly> and still am experiencing new things
Laly> good things
zeitgeist> ...that was MEANT to be...
Laly> like Z - a higher level of awareness.
Laly> true Z - HUGSS, THANKS.
KJ> I do notice sounds, smells
KJ> like that kind of higher level of awareness?
Jack> EXCELLENT!!!
Jack> That's a VERY good sign! Your senses are opening more.
Laly> goodie *claps hands.
KJ> ok, I'm glad that's important
KJ> Laly, I LIKE you
Laly> am crying
Laly> aww thanks KJ
Jack> [ bliss-brimming ]
KJ> heh
KJ> wow, people are easy to please around here...
Laly> am seeing some color here Jack.
Jack> Yes?
Laly> energy
Laly> and is awesome
Laly> purples, blues
Jack> Very cool!
Laly> making my heart sing loudly.
Jack> Yeah I can hear it from here! :-)
zeitgeist> sing those symphonies of song...
Jack> :-)
zeitgeist> heavenly harmonies
Laly> Z- is awesome - been sick the past 2 days.
Laly> thanks Z.
zeitgeist> :-)
KJ> Laly, you been sick?
Laly> yes
KJ> oh, don't do THAT
Laly> a first in over a yr.
Jack> Maybe like spring cleaning.

zeitgeist> and from NOW??
Jack> Immune system giving it all a flush!
Jack> You've been doing a LOT of emotional processing so it would make sense.
Laly> am floating
Laly> thanks Jack.
Jack> y/w!
zeitgeist> singning it better GIRL!
Laly> energy flowing so fast i can;'t keep up
Salty> :-) SORRY, WE GOTTA LEAVE. Thank you everyone, we'll keep monitoring the chat.
Laly> k saltys- take care
zeitgeist> take care!
zeitgeist> all the BEST!
Laly> just wave after wave here,
Laly> to you too
Jack> K, thanks for being here today again! Fair winds and Safe Harbor, Saltys!
KJ> See ya Salty, I was just gonna ask you how things go with you
Salty> Thanks, goodbye all
Laly> nite
Jack> Sorry you missed that chance this time KJ, I'd love to hear too. Next time: a priority!
KJ> good
Laly> k - going to step away and enjoy this Jack
Laly> can't type and feel this too
Jack> I can dig it, Laly. I need to be wrapping things up too. Comin up on hour number 4. :-)
zeitgeist> take care Laly, my best to you!
Jack> What a GREAT chat!
Jack> Laly, you gonna be ok?
Laly> yea jack
Jack> HUGGGSSSS TO YOU LALY!
Laly> god is sooo great
KJ> feel better and better laly
Jack> ttyl!
Laly> k thanks
zeitgeist> its time for my cocoa, nearly midnight here in the UK.... so I'd better be going too...
Jack> bye for now.
KJ> goodnight and good cocoa to ya!
Jack> Z thanks for ALL you bring to this community! Enjoy that cocoa!
zeitgeist> so good night to all and have a great rest-of-the-weekend!
zeitgeist> CHEERS! slurp!
KJ> thanks, will do
Jack> Does anyone have any other questions or thoughts to share before we say good evening?
KJ> haha
KJ> I'm good
Jack> Zeit you rascal!
zeitgeist> >:-)
Jack> Ok... I think we'll call it good for now. THANK YOU ONE AND ALL FOR BEING HERE!
KJ> you should see your face!
Jack> LOL!
Laly> and thank you Jack for having us too
Jack> KJ check out O. Carl Simonton's books: esp
KJ> Thank you too, I was so pumped to get home check email and find you all here!
Jack> The Healing Journey, and Getting Well Again. Those are the books I wanted to mention to you. Yeah it was GREAT that you popped back into the channel!
Jack> KJ did you see those book titles?
Jack> b4 you dropped connection just then?
KJ> who's books were those
KJ> nope
KJ> give all the info again please
Jack> O. Carl Simonton, MD: Getting Well Again, and The Healing Journey. You might want to start with the latter one.
KJ> ok, great
KJ> very cool, thanks
KJ> thanks
Jack> All right! Have a great week! Best to your Sweetie. Take good care. You're doin' great!
KJ> oh, thanks, I'll tell him!
Laly> nie KJ
KJ> be gone with you!
Laly> nite
KJ> nite Laly!
Session Close: Sat Jun 10 15:59:18 2006

gold nugget

VERY IMPORTANT TIPS IN THIS CHAT ABOUT WHAT TO DO WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE NOTHING IS HAPPENING

Several forum members join Jack in a discussion of early Echo Effects, low energy levels, making the Key Sound correctly, and practicing at higher levels.

__________________
With Love, Light and with a Joyously singing heart,
Laly
Old forum threads of mine :
http://tiny.cc/KOx0x - shy newbie
http://tiny.cc/mt9sd - letting go of anger
http://tiny.cc/wR7Hb - multiple orgasm success-insight

I read this in a book today "You never know how much courage you have until you face your greatest fears head on".