• Laly, pan, and blu22 join Jack for a discussion of heartgasms, correct Key Sound articulation, Gary Craig's Emotional Freedom Techniques aka EFT, and how the Key Sound Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol aka KSMO helps heal a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and date rape as a young adult.
• newbie blu22 asks Jack how multiple orgasms should feel compared to normal ejaculation.
• Jack asks blu22 if he had downloaded and read the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol Summary pdf file. Blu22 confirmed that he had.
• Pan describes what multiple orgasms & regular ejaculations are for him. Pan gives the forum link in which he describes "what does multiple orgasm without ejaculation feel like?"
• Laly describes to blu22 how she can "feel" that she makes the Key Sound correctly.
• Jack offers tips for blu22 on how to relax before beginning a Multiple Orgasm Trigger practice session and asks blu22 to be aware of any spontaneous responses or sensations - what Jack refers to as Echo Effects.
• Laly reports a spontaneous Heartgasm.
• Pan asks Laly about EFT - Emotional Freedom Techniques. Pan also asks how much she feels her practice of Jack's Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol has helped her with deal with rape survival guilt.

Session Start: Thu Dec 01 17:55:04 2005
Laly> Hi Jack!
Jack> Hello! Are you back home safe and sound?
Laly> yes, thanks.
Jack> How was the trip for you?
Laly> had the best relaxing weekend.
Jack> WAY TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF!
Laly>*blushing, thank you- needed it!
Jack> I hear THAT
Jack> :-)
Laly> :-) - am back to grinning like a fool and heart is singing once more.
Laly> lol.
Jack> YAY!!!
Jack> RE: "fool" are you familiar with the archetype of the "Divine Fool"?
Laly> no.
Jack> I haven't googled it, but at least one aspect of that meme = "shaman, visionary".
Laly> well... i take that as a good sign..I saw something on flight down that may have reaffirmed i was doing a good thing.
Jack> Yes?
Laly> being my first night flying experience
Laly> i saw big as life the "Archer" astrological stars
Laly> pointing brightly towards columbus
Jack> WELCOME NEWBIE blu22... and Welcome back Pan! Laly was just starting to talk about her flight back from a relaxing weekend.
Laly> and it made me smile .
Laly> hi blu22 and Pan
Pan> Good evening everyone. :-)
blu22> hello
Laly> and feel like i was making the right choice Jack.
Laly> for me and my future dreams of happiness.
Jack> That sounds wonderful Laly!
blu22> so are all of the people here MMO adepts?
Laly> and add the beautiful back to back night KSMO orgasms Jack, and I was
Laly> KSMO for me blu22.
Laly> on Cloud 9 , literally.
Pan> I've been multi-orgasmic for almost 6 years now blu.
Laly> 4 months here.
Jack> 13 yrs here.
Pan> You go brother!
blu22> i ordered the seminar for beginners and i just don?t get it.
Jack> Well you did the right thing by checking in here!
Laly> ok blu-- speak ok.. we'll listen and help
Jack> First blu,
Jack> did you also download and read the pdf document:
blu22> yeah.
Jack> Good! OK... thanks. What are your questions?
blu22> i guess i just feel really weird when i to the key sound, it doesn't seem like it does anything...
Jack> Also, if ok with you, would you share your approx age, where typing from generally, marital status and/or orientation if you choose... ONLY what you are OK with sharing.
Jack> Laly and Pan, would you care to respond to blu?
blu22> 23 male single and gay
Jack> Thanks, and welcome!
blu22> thanks
Laly> sure. Blu22, I am 34, single (for now) and hail from Ohio.
blu22> im from ohio too
Laly> and I am heterosexual.
Pan> Well, I can say I definitely felt self-conscious and "weird" when i first started making the Key Sound.
Laly> same here.
Pan> It took a little while for me to get used to the feeling of expressing myself through a sound.
Pan> Because, as we all know, guys aren't supposed to make noises during sex. ;-)
Pan> (sarcasm)
Laly> lol.. for women too Pan.
>Pan> :-)
Jack> OR sounds!
Jack> For some it might be easier to start by allowing sounds and graduate to noises. ;-)
blu22> ive asked a lot of guys if they know anything about tantra, or MMO and usually the answer is no or what's that? i just wish i had proof that MMO ARE possible for males
Pan> Well there's a few instructional Tantra videos out there that have demonstrations.
blu22> but they usually have the pc squeeze thing, which is a total turn-off for me
Laly> as Jack and Pan have said..it is possible for more than one orgasm in a session.
blu22> jack, how do these MMOs feel compared to a regular ejaculation?
Jack> As far as I know, for the most part re: males even the tantra info is mostly about jockeying around the ejaculatory Point of No Return. Pan and Laly, what's your understanding of that?
blu22> jockeying?
Jack> i.e., of the multiples taught in the tantra lit?
Jack> hovering, holding back, etc.
blu22> ok
Jack> whereas,
Jack> in this practice, as you begin to become more comfortable with
Jack> the ways in which the feelings may be different than you may have expected,
Jack> you learn how to build arousal without relying on stimulation... by doing that,
Laly> yes-- agree with that wholeheartedly.
Jack> you dont engage the ejaculatory reflex at all.
blu22> with the Key Sound?
Jack> yes! The Key Sound
Jack> is the means for building arousal without using more stimulation to do so.
Jack> It also gives you a way
blu22> but how could a sound make you orgasm?
Jack> to really express the pent up energy INSTEAD OF going for it - that is "going for" ejaculation to relieve that can't stand it any more feeling.
Laly> i didn?t believe it myself at first blu, but it does work- the KS is a trigger
blu22> so can you have mmos just from key sound?
Laly> OH YES!!
Pan> Technically, it's the extreme levels of AROUSAL that trigger the orgasms blu, but yes, I have just from making the sound quite often.
Jack> And eventually, even withOUT the Key Sound AND withOUT stimulation.
Laly> uh huh Jack.
blu22> !!??
Pan> LOL, maybe we're going too fast here.
blu22> lol i just can't imagine
Jack> blu, what Pan and laly are talking about is how it can happen once you have begun to AWAKEN to the feelings.
Laly> i think so too Pan.
Jack> LOL I hear ya blu!
Pan> I know EXACTLY what you mean. ;-)
blu22> pan are you a male?
Pan> yep. 31, married for 7 years.
Laly> blu22 the point is -- allowing your body to relax .
Jack> Men especially often seem to be enculturated to try to lead with their head ... that is, to try to think it all the way through and then do it... this is different. Eh Laly? Eh Pan?
Pan> TOTALLY different.
Jack> How so?
blu22> lead with their head?
Pan> You have to FEEL your way there! :-)
blu22> i don?t get it lol...i feel too new to be here
Pan> And it starts with feeling comfortable expressing your pleasure through the Key Sound.
Laly> I do not think during my sessions.. I let my mind just wander.. that is I meditate to relase any stress or negative fellings that may get in the way
Pan> Blu, I have a question for you...
blu22> ok.
Pan> have you ever felt really good during some kind of sexual experience and wanted to make noise, but held back?
blu22> a couple of times.
Pan> any idea why?
Laly> ohh good question Pan :-)
Pan> ;-)
blu22> cause i didnt want to disturb anyone
Laly> for me blu.. i didn't want to get hit again.
blu22> hit?
Laly> yes..
blu22> with the feeling?
Pan> LOL, I should have been more specific there. Were there any times in which privacy was not an issue and yet you still felt as though you "holding back" from an urge to make noises from pleasure?
blu22> yes
blu22> and i dont know why. but i see what you mean.
Laly> no , blu22 not from that
Jack> [btw, blu... the Key Sound is made VERY GENTLY it doesn't ever need to be forced.]
Pan> or loud...
Jack> Yeah I agree with Pan. In fact, if you
blu22> when you all were beginners, how long in the session did you start to feel anything?
Laly> 30 minutes the first time for me
Jack> Make the sound artificially loud trying to provoke the response, that actually tends to suppress it.
Laly> and all i got was tingling along the thighs.
blu22> that?s not much to look forward too lol
Pan> I felt VERY SUBTLE pleasant feelings from the first few times I started making the Key Sounds. But I would say I felt any strong sensations of pleasure until almost my third week of practice.
Jack> We get to CHOOSE what meaning we assign to it:
Jack> We get to say it doesn't mean much, or
Laly> MMO and KSMO affects everyone differently blu22 ok.
Jack> it may indicate that a new response may be beginning to awaken.
blu22> ahh ok
blu22> i hope to be able to feel what you all feel one of these days.
Laly> you can.
Jack> Blu when you practice, about how long do your sessions last?
Pan> part of the process is opening up new ways of experiencing pleasure, so that can take a little time. PATIENCE is key.
Jack> I second THAT Pan!
Jack> I second what laly affirmed too. :-)
Laly> 3rd that!! lol.
Laly> Also.. let go of any expectations you may have as well blu22
Laly> regarding MMO
Jack> blu, it's natural especially in the beginning to be formulating a lot of "what ifs" in our mind as we approach this. We've all pretty much been through that.
Jack> So you're not alone in that, Brother!
Pan> Yeah. It's like you said blu. You really can't imagine what it's like until it's already happening to you.
blu22> umm well maybe ....lol 10 mins at most...
Jack> I agree Pan! Ok, blu, about ten minutes.
Jack> Do you start with just some relaxing breathing?
blu22> no...
Jack> ok. That might be a good idea... This often works better for people as a
Jack> relaxing meditation or just relaxation session, rather than going for it.
Jack> Slowing down and relaxing is a BIG part of how this works.
Laly> uh huh...I take 5 min beforehand to relax myself blu
Pan> Thinkig of my sessions as "Self-Exploration" was a big help for me in the beginning.
Pan> Takes the pressure off of making anything happen.
Jack> Or even trying to make anything happen. :-)
Laly> hence the term "force" jack mentioned earlier.
blu22> what do MMO feel like for you pan?
Pan> oh man, how many hours do you have? LOL!
Laly> lol. * grins
blu22> lol.
Jack> :-)
blu22> do they feel better than your best orgasms?
Pan> I actually made a post in the forum called "What Does it Feel Like" where I tried to answer that question.
Jack> Which Conference and Topic? Do you recall?
Pan> YES, I often tell my wife that one KSMO session, whether with her or myself, is about the same amount of pleasure as a typical month of "jerking off" the old way.
Pan> I'll see if I can find it Jack...
Laly> and in Main_chat room "shy newbie" thread- I have put my first experiences with KSMO blu22.
Jack> GOT IT PAN!
Jack> Q & A Physical = Conference
Pan> Jack, it's in Conference: Q & A Physical, titled - "what does it feel like?"
Pan> oops, lol.
Jack> Topic = What does it feel like"
blu22> that sounds intense!
Laly> lol. great minds think alike.
Jack> 3/16/04
blu22> cool thanks
Jack> Meanwhile, how about a short version, Pan?
Jack> How does it compare to the old fashioned way,
Jack> and if you're not ejaculating, how do you know it's orgasm?
Jack> It IS intense, blu!
Pan> OMG, is it ever going to get easy to answer this...? Gimme a minute to collect my thoughts into a sentence or two...
Laly> yes... i agree with that one.
Pan> Ok, I think i got it.
Pan> Blu it's like this...
Pan> You know that feeling you get at the peak of ejaculation? That really intense tingling pleasure? Well, imagine that feeling lasting for minutes at a time. And there's more.
Pan> Ya know the feeling you get with each contraction during ejaculation? Imagine each contraction slowing down and becoming stronger, like bigger and bigger waves, that keep coming and coming.
Pan> And the longer you keep having these orgasms, the feeling of that tingling peak sensation keeps getting stronger and lasting longer until it's constantly happening, as if you're "stuck" in an orgasm.
Pan> We call this feeling "The Zone," and it can last literally for hours.
Laly> "stuck" ??
Jack> But it's a GOOD stuck!
Pan> well, how bout "lingering" "swimming in pleasure" "lounging in orgasm" ;-)
Laly> ok i like that better
Pan> LOL!
Jack> Yeah I like that too!
Laly> sorry Pan
blu22> lol
Pan> That's the other amazing thing about this blu, even though these feelings are intense, the way Jack technique works,
Jack> blu, some people report tasting delicious flavors, like vanilla, or banana, etc.
Laly> just sounded painful to me . with "stuck"
Jack> [ sorry Pan, pls continue ]
Pan> you actually feel deeply relaxed through it all, so you more free to really FEEL every sensation.
Pan> and no worrying about go over the edge either!
blu22> nice!
Pan> When you do it right, there literally is no edge! :-)
blu22> i would love to share this with a lover if i get one.
Laly> i agree with Pan on that Blu.
Pan> Guess that's it in a nutshell. Best I can do in under 5 minutes anyway. :-)
Jack> Thanks Pan!
blu22> thanks a lot pan!
Laly> as long as that lover is willing and accepting of KMSO tho blu ok.
Pan> my pleasure! ;-)
blu22> how do you know if the key sounds are right?
Pan> yeah, it takes a little time to get this in synch with a lover.
Jack> couples exercise IS in the Male Multiple Orgasm Step by Step audio seminar btw.
Jack> Good question about how do you know about the Key Sound being right!
Laly> if i may Jack??
Jack> Yes Please!
Laly> Blu..in the protocol there is a hint on just this very thing ok
Laly> but I will try and help here
blu22> i?m all ears
Jack> by in the protocol you mean in the pdf?
Laly> yes
Jack> The Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol Summary Update
Laly> thanks Jack
Jack> that's the pdf to which we're referring.
Jack> Thank YOU! Please continue.
Jack> :-)
Laly> correct KS movements .. for me I lay my NON-stimluatory hand on my chest
Laly> and when I make the KS- i can feel a very low rumble or vibration in my chest and lung area
Laly> and my belly expands as I make the KS
Jack> [ automatically - you don't have to think about making your belly expand ]
Jack> [ :-) ]
Laly> if you do not feel the chest rumble-- check to see if your head is laying back in relaxed position
Jack> [ or if there is tightness in your throat... that's very common in the beginning ]
Laly> beat me to that Jack lol
Jack> [ excusez-moi! :-) ]
Jack> [ pls continue ]
Laly> is ok Jack --
Jack> 10-Q
blu22> so jack, should i do the key without any stimulation to begin right?
Laly> your focal point should not be at the spot between your legs, but at a spot in front of you -- i.e. a spot on the ceiling
Jack> Doesn't have to be, Laly.
Jack> Dealer's choice on that, I'd say. :-)
Laly> ok
Jack> I'd recommend beginning by just lying there and
Laly> i just meant it in context of KS not being correct Jack.
Laly> do continue please
Jack> Thanks Laly. I appreciate your offering that as an option. I haven't found it to be necessary in my personal experience, however. :-)
Jack> by "offering that" I was referring to your idea about how focusing on a point on the ceiling works for you.
Jack> blu,
blu22> yes?
Jack> I recommend that you begin by lying on your back or on your side,
Jack> in a position that is relaxed. No strain anywhere.
blu22> ive felt kind of short of breath on my back when i?ve practiced
Jack> If you start to get uncomfortable, change position whenever you need to.
blu22> ok
Jack> Yeah you might try on your side. The important thing is to not wind up in that straight-legged tense position that tends to trigger ejaculation.
Pan> blu do u have any health issues regarding breathing?
Jack> This is not a getting off session, it's more of a relaxation session, ok?
Jack> Oh GOOD QUESTION Pan!
Jack> Thanks!
blu22> no i dont think so
Jack> What's important about the breathing, as with every aspect of the practice,
Jack> Is to not force ANYTHING, it's really important to continue to relax to the ENTIRE process.
Jack> Do you know who Barry White is?
Jack> [ ? was to blu ]
Jack> Did somebody get a cell phone call or something? :-)
Jack> Anybody out there?
Pan> I am :-)
blu22> yes i am
Jack> Ah!
blu22> i don?t know who that is
Jack> Don't worry about Barry White... sorry, b4 your time. Anyway, blu, did you see what I suggested about beginning by relaxing breathing?
blu22> yeah
Laly> here.. sorry ..
Jack> Ok, just begin by getting into a comfortable position,
Jack> With the understanding that at any time during the practice session, if you start to feel uncomfortable in any way,
Jack> It's important actually to cause for a moment and readjust your position until you feel really comfortable again.
Jack> Once you're in a position is comfortable for you,
Jack> Than just begin to allow your breathing to slow down, without any exaggeration,
Jack> But to just slow down, and relax, taking nice full breaths... again without straining or forcing... they don't have to be Superman breaths.
Jack> And do that for a few minutes, as you begin to notice your body relaxing.
Jack> This beginning step is very important.
Jack> And of course, you can use favorite techniques if you like to help you relax, such as those that Laly suggested.
Laly> *blushing
Jack> Then, once you are feeling yourself in a noticeably more relaxed state, calmer...
Jack> Then, while resting the hand on your chest that you will not be using for stimulation,
Jack> Go ahead and use a husky, yet unforced, and very relaxed Key Sound...
Jack> And then just allow two or three slow, unforced, relaxing breaths...
Jack> And then another gentle Key Sound as described previously...
Jack> Once again followed by the unforced, unhurried, relaxing breaths...
blu22> what do i do with the other hand?
Jack> Nothing yet.
Jack> An important act at this stage of the beginning of the early practice sessions
Jack> Is to learn how to tune in to where you actually are in the moment and how your body is actually feeling in the moment,
blu22> ok
Jack> In all the various parts of your body, as you begin to notice how and where you are beginning to physically relax...
Jack> Then, after several minutes of this practice,
Jack> And only once you have genuinely noticed that you have slowed yourself down, at least a little from before you began the practice,
Jack> Then introduce a single touch or caress of a pleasurable area of your body. This need not be genitals... It may be any area
Jack> That feels even mildly pleasurable to your single touch or caress.
Jack> The object is not to feel really turned on,
blu22> when i touch myself, do i do it in a pattern?
Jack> In the object is not to get or maintain an erection.
blu22> like breath three times, keysound, then touch
Laly> in anyway is pleasureable t you blu
Jack> After the initial breathing only relaxation phase,
Jack> and then the relaxing breathing plus gentle Key Sound phase ( for a couple of minutes )
blu22> ok
Jack> then begin using a single touch then pausing (you don't have to remove your hand, maintaining contact is fine... just don't continue the movement stimulation )
Jack> on the next exhale after you have initiated that single touch, allow a gentle, relaxed, maybe a little husky, Key Sound,
Jack> followed by two or three slow relaxing breaths.
Jack> That's it!
Laly> :-)
blu22> kool im going to try it tonight
Laly> sweet!!
Jack> For a MAXimum of about 20 minutes.
blu22> thanks soo much to all of you
Jack> And... just to see what happens,
blu22> ok
Jack> hold on don't leave quite yet pls.
blu22> ok
Laly> took me all of 10 minutes just now blu lol
Jack> thanks, blu!
Pan> lol laly.
Jack> blu,
Jack> after the 20 min.
Laly> sorry Pan.
Pan> :-)
Jack> just maybe do a warm bath or shower... something relaxing, but give yourself the opportunity
Jack> to find out what might happen if you don't ejaculate... at least until the next day. That is, don't finish up the KSMO session
Jack> with ejaculation. Let that awakened energy hang out in your body for a while. ok?
Jack> Give the genie time to AWAKEN! :-)
blu22> ok...its going to be hard not to tho
Laly> yes it may blu.
Pan> that's why it's so important to keep the stimulation brief.
Jack> When you feel the energy building up, just let it out through a Key Sound >>>IF<<< you are in a PRIVATE place. Don't do this in public. It's a sexual act.
Jack> Yeah very good point , Pan!
Pan> :-)
blu22> im afraid of getting let down and giving up after the session and still being aroused, go to the conventional way
Pan> Tha'ts the real trick here Blu. As long you only touch yourself for a second or two at a time, you won't ever build towards the
Pan> Point of No Return.
Jack> Well save the conventional way until the next day.
Laly> uh huh :-)
blu22> so do the mmo every other day?
Jack> Notice the keyword "afraid". That's why we say the biggest challenge in learning this lifelong skill is between the ears, not between the legs!
Pan> you can only be let down if you start with expectations!
Jack> Take at least one day off between KSMO practice sessions, and only do the practice for about 20 min per day.
Jack> That's a guideline. There are no KSMO cops (hopefully!).
Jack> :
Jack> :-)
Laly> in here
Jack> One other thing, blu, b4 you go...
blu22> ok
Jack> is DURING the practice sessions, just let your awareness wander around your body and become aware of
Jack> any tingles or goosebumps or other kinds of sensations that are AUTOMATIC, even if pretty subtle, and that may have a somewhat new or "hmmm!" kind of quality to them, ok?
blu22> ok
Jack> Pan, Laly, any other tips for our friend blu before he's off to practice
Pan> I have one.
Jack> Oh! One other thing. Try some practice sessions EARLIER
Jack> in the day, unless you're ready for some caffeine-free all-nighters!
Laly> lol-- good point Jack.
Jack> You got the Talkin Stick Brutha Pan!
Jack> tnx Laly! :-)
Pan> Blu, when i started this practice, i expected it to take me at least 6 months or longer to have multiples. So I was EXPECTING anything to happen early on. I just did my practice as a method of self-exploration...
Jack> was expecting or was NOT expecting?
Pan> UHG, *NOT expecting, thanks Jack.
Jack> I guess SUBconsciously maybe a leeetle expecting, yes? (natcherly!) but not consciously ATTACHED?
Jack> LOL
Jack> pls continue!
Pan> BAH! whatever with that psycho-babble ;-)
Pan> anyway...
Laly> lol
Pan> (joking BTW)
Jack> yeah sure.
Jack> Don't you know what Freud said about humor? LOL!
Jack> PuhLeez continue. :0
blu22> so did you experience mmo's eariler then you expected?
Pan> ahem, tryin to help a newbie here...
Jack> noble duty!
Laly> oh god-- laughing on the floor here.
Pan> YES I *DID*. After only 3 weeks, and on that particular day...
Pan> I really wasn't expecting anything special to happen. It took me totally by surprise.
Pan> I had 8 orgasms in a row OUT of NOWHERE.
Laly> awesome!!
blu22> !!!! 8!!!?
Pan> So, just remember, enjoy each and every session for what it is, and not what you want it to be and you'll get there waaay faster.
Jack> BTW, blu, that report of "I wasn't expecting anything, and THEN it happened!" is a VERY VERY common theme in how this happens for you.
Jack> MANY posts in this Forum with that theme!
blu22> thanks for the note
blu22> -)
Laly> and i just got that tonite blu
Pan> sure thing. :-)
Jack> I agree with Pan. It's one of those paradoxes about learning this, blu. That the more attached you are to getting it or "making it" happen, the
Jack> more elusive it can be. When you RELAX and just tune in to how the feelings ARE emerging, and how gradually
Jack> ( and then sometimes suddenly ) the Key Sound starts pumping up the arousal, as those tingles and other sensations getting a little stronger...
Jack> THOSE are the breadcrumbs to follow. :-)
Jack> BTW please post your experiences between chats to the Forum so we may continue to help you and answer your questions... help you learn how to sail this lovely boat. :-)
Laly> yes
Pan> definitely. The forum is your friend. :-)
Jack> Sure glad you made it by tonight, blu! I hope we've been helpful to you.
blu22> thank you soo much guyz and gal
Laly> thank you blu.
Pan> happy to be of service. :-)
blu22> night! :-)
Laly> *takes deep breath
alyroth> wow
Jack> Thanks for all of your help, to both of you!
Pan> it was worth it as usual. :-)
Laly> oh yes.. for me too
Laly> gonn be a while be4 i hit the bed to nite so.. lol.
Pan> lol, oh laly...
Pan> hey laly, by the way did you get my email?
Jack> LOL-LY!
alyroth> automated response Pan when Jack was talking to blu
Jack> RE: worth it. Yeah! It was worth it for me too! I love that feeling when people start to realize that they can RELAX INTO this process.
Laly> no pan
Laly> i did not
Pan> Yeah, I love winning them over to the good side of the force. :-)
Jack> LOL! Nice work Luke!
Pan> Well, i guess I can mention it here real quick, if Jack doesn;t mind the edit later...
Jack> r u gonna start talkin dirty, Pan?
Laly> lol-- i hope not am exited nuff as it is LOL
Pan> OH GAWD, no people, i'm talkin about EFT here. sheesh!
Pan> :-)
Laly> *grins
Jack> AHAAAA!!!!
Pan> Laly, did you get to check out that EFT website?
Laly> i get their newsletters Pan
Jack> Let me disconnect the EFT filter...
Jack> THERE! Ok... have at it!
Jack> ;-)
Jack> I think it's pretty interesting.
Pan> well, I purchased the first 2 courses on DVD and I was wondering if you would like a copy of the Level 1 course, for free.
Laly> about the abuse thing right- yeah is coming back to me
Laly> OH BOY would I
Pan> Jack is burning some copies for me (legally) and he can send you one if you'd like.
Laly> yes i would
Pan> ok, well then that's settled. Now about that dirty talk...
Laly> PLEASE NO-- lol I couldn't stand it
Jack> ROFLMAO
Laly> am aroused nuff
Laly> :-)
Laly> hands are shaking right now
Pan> oh FINE, guess i'll just sit in the corner and make Key Sounds...
Laly> AWWWW
Pan> LOL
Jack> Who's getting punished by THAT?
Pan> hmm, that's *is* a good question.
Laly> I do apologize tho JAck
Jack> No worries!
Laly> explain to blu just made me automatically go into KS session
Laly> and WHOA
Laly> hello mama
Pan> LOL
Laly> is how easy it is for me now Pan
Laly> sorry
Laly> *sheepish grin
Pan> no need to apologize, it comes with the territory. You're one of US now, hmmwhwahahaha!
Jack> OMG the kids are breakin all the dishes!
Laly> 3 times in one week is a new thing for me pan :-)
Pan> so laly, were you orgasmic at all prior to KSMO?
Jack> Congratulations!
Laly> *coughs -- every nite manually for yrs Pan
Laly> thanks Jack
Jack> :-) You're welcome!
Laly> but as a form of punishment not pleasure
Jack> How is the experience different for you now?
Pan> oh wow, please say more on that.
Jack> Ahh. That answers a big part of it.
Laly> I was sexually abused as a child Pan
Laly> and later raped at 16
Jack> :~(
Laly> so my view of sex was rather odd.
Laly> imho
Pan> I don't see how it could have been otherwise.
Laly> sex in my view then was not for pleasure but a form of punishment
Laly> thanks
Jack> I'm really glad to hear that's been changing for you with this practice, Laly!
Jack> AND with the OTHER steps you've been taking in that regard.
Laly> but now with the help of this practice-- i am enjoying the pleasure deriving from this practice
Laly> learning to love myself again
Laly> and letting go of the guilt
Jack> Hallelujah!
alyroth> and the blame that it was my fault
Laly> and that I could of and should have been able to stop it.
Jack> Good riddance to those beliefs!
Jack> The ABUSER could have and should have stopped it. Never started it!... That wasn't up to you.
Jack> You did really well to SURVIVE.
Pan> and THRIVE!
Jack> Let's stand by.
Pan> sure.
Jack> I'm calling her.
Pan> k
Jack> skype not working. Will use a land line.
Pan> k, i'm here.
Jack> I don't like this. She's not answering.
Jack> She may have had a flashback.
Pan> oh god.
Jack> no ans machine.
Pan> I don't suppose you know anyone who knows her personally? A therapist or friend?
Jack> Drew. But all he could do is call.
Pan> He's not close by?
Jack> Don't think so. I'll try to reach him.
Pan> ya, sounds like a good idea.
Jack> Pls stay in channel in case she comes back in.
Pan> I'll be here.
Jack> no ans with Drew.
Pan> oh man.
Pan> Maybe it's a storm...?
Pan> I feel like i shouldn't have asked about the transition. I meant it as a positive question, but I feel pretty stupid about it now.
Jack> Yeah I was about to msg you about that when she left the channel.
Pan> do you know if she's prone to flashbacks?
Jack> I'm gonna try phone one more time and then I may call 911 back there. Without revealing history, just ask about checking on her. Lives by herself, call interrupted.
Pan> yeah, pls do.
Jack> Dunno, but have been trying to get her connected to a counselor cuz the stuff is up.
Pan> Wow, I had assumed she was already working with one.
Jack> Nope. Been playing phone tag with one I ref'd and one Drew suggested.
Pan> Damn this is frustrating.
Jack> trying her one more time b4 the p.d.
Pan> that's reasonable.
Jack> Long delay... then line busy. You're right. Might be a storm. Gonna breath a little here. Then continue.
Pan> I know there's been a lot of storm activity out in the midwest lately.
Pan> oh thank god'
Laly> ok back, sorry
<Pan> UHG!
Laly> still have time or is it too late for ya all??
Pan> well, let's start with how ya feelin? You got cut off at a pretty emotional moment. We were a little worried.
Laly> yeah-- had to reboot connection
Laly> am ok now
Laly> just frustrating
Pan> you mean, reboot technically or heart-wise? ;-)
Laly> computer wise
Jack> Hi! Glad your back!
Laly> thanks
Jack> I just sent you an email. We were wondrin' :-)
Laly> to which e-mail jack??
Pan> phew! ok, just wanted to make sure you were feeling ok.
Jack> one sec.
Laly> thanks PAN (HUGSS)
Pan> just glad you're ok sweetie. :-)
Jack> yahoo address.
Laly> Laly or laura_roth39
Laly> i sent you an e-mail regarding the Laly one jack
Jack> Laly. Well, to pick up the thread, I think you were talking about how good you were feeling to be able to enjoy sex for pleasure for a change.
Laly> i dont have that 1 jack
Laly> send it to the other please , thanks
Laly> oh yes...
Laly> the PLEASURE *sighs happily
Jack> ok. no biggie just was hoping to hear from you. Also tried calling.
Jack> Yes here's to your claiming your birthright to pleasure!
Jack> :-)
Jack> [ pls resend msg about address change... I missed it... very sorry... ]
Laly> well i no longer see the well with dark black water but a beautiful pond with lush vegitation in which to drink an endless supply of orgamsic
Laly> ok jack
Laly> energy from
Laly> a place i welcome in my heart and not fear or dread anymore
Jack> That is REALLY GREAT Laly!!!
Pan> how much of this change would you say is because of KSMO?
Laly> at least 65% pan
Pan> wow, that's awesome laly!
Laly> but it is not just the physical orgasms but the change in my attitude and mental state as well
Pan> because that means it was mostly a self-healing process.
Laly> yes mostly - i have one last thing to heal and then is ok
Laly> one last door to open and deal with
Pan> yeah, I know what you mean in a way. I had a similiar transformation with chronic pain and depression, frustration, etc all transformed in the first few months of my practice.
Laly> and for this I am seeking help for Pan
Pan> I'm glad to hear that. It's so important to seek help when we really need it.
Laly> i stand before the door and am ready to go through..finally
Jack> Good on ya for getting the help you need and deserve to complete the healing!
Laly> :-)
Pan> Well, I hope you both get as much out of EFT as me and Amy are. I really think you're gonna love it. :-)
Laly> sweet. me too
Jack> I'm also glad you're persisting in tracking down some professional assistance who is trained in helping survivors with their recovery.
Laly> thanks. with the awesome support in here I knew i had to
Laly> try
Laly> to reclaim what i lost
Jack> AND reclaim your present and your future!
Laly> oh yes.
Jack> :-)
Pan> Well, as they say, "you're never too old to have a happy childhood!"
Jack> AYMEN!
Laly> :-)
Laly> i feel like i am a teenager again -
Jack> Well good friends, I'm startin' to fade. Is there any other way I may serve, this evening?
Laly> not for me Jack
Pan> I'm all set here, thanks for sending the DVD's out Jack. :-)
Jack> Yeah I will once I get them and dupe them. :-)
Laly> just didn't want to leave ya 2 hanging like i did.
Jack> Certainly appreciate that! :-)
Pan> neither did we!
Jack> CONGRATS on reclaiming the teenager!
Laly> and am spreading the good word about KSMO as well Jack
Laly> intrigued a few freinds and they are gonna peek
Laly> around.
Jack> Thanks very much!
Laly> :-)
Pan> the more, the merrier. :-)
Jack> LITERALLY!!!
Pan> LOL! indeed
Pan> uh... indeed.
Jack> The more the merrier, and the merrier the more!
Laly> well I mentioned my experiences Pan and they were like REALLY!
Pan> were they female friends?
Jack> Why IS that woman smiling???
Laly> umm no Pan
Laly> *giggles
Pan> oh cool. None of my male friends will even go there.
Jack> Yet.
Pan> yeah, YET.
Jack> :-)
Jack> They may need to find a way to do so and not tell you. YOU know how guys are.
Jack> :-)
Laly> coming from a woman may be different Pan than say man to a man
Jack> No kidding!
Jack> LOL!
Pan> oh totally!
Laly> *grinning again
Jack> Oh this has been another GREAT CHAT!!!
Pan> Nothing against men, but sometimes I just don't understand them...
Pan> ;-)
Laly> yes Jack - was definately for me at least - tonite's :-)
Jack> And I'm glad blu played such a great part in it too. He asked the perfect questions to help other newbies learn from our conversation as well.
Laly> oh yes
Pan> yeah, i hope he'll come back with a progress report sometime.
Jack> Well beeeg HUGS to you both!
Laly> back at ya Jack
Pan> same to you guys.
Jack> Thanks x 2!
Jack> See you in the Forum and soon back here, I hope!
Pan> until next time. :-)
<Laly> if you ever wanna talk away from chat Pan I am willing ok
Jack> Cheers, eh!
Laly> yes til next time
Pan> ok laly, thanks. :-)
Jack> Good Night!
Pan> Pan signing off...
Laly> nite Jack!

Session Close: Thu Dec 01 20:49:15 2005

Pan...when I was editing this chat for Jack ... I felt like responding to a section of text you and Jack had while I l was gone.

"Jack> She may have had a flashback.
Pan> oh god.
Jack> no ans machine.
Pan> I don't suppose you know anyone who knows her personally? A therapist or friend?
Jack> Drew. But all he could do is call.
Pan> He's not close by?
Jack> Don't think so. I'll try to reach him.
Pan> ya, sounds like a good idea.
Jack> Pls stay in channel in case she comes back in.
Pan> I'll be here.
Jack> no ans with Drew.
Pan> oh man.
Pan> Maybe it's a storm...?
Pan>I feel like i shouldn't have asked about the transition. I meant it as a positive question, but I feel pretty stupid about it now.
Jack> Yeah I was about to msg you about that when she left the channel.
Pan> do you know if she's prone to flashbacks?
Jack> I'm gonna try phone one more time and then I may call 911 back there. Without revealing history, just ask about checking on her. Lives by herself, call interrupted.
Pan> yeah, pls do.
Jack> Dunno, but have been trying to get her connected to a counselor cuz the stuff is up.
Pan> Wow, I had assumed she was already working with one.
Jack> Nope. Been playing phone tag with one I ref'd and one Drew suggested.
Pan> Damn this is frustrating."

It the lines I bolded that i felt I needed to respond to- so Pan to answer your question about the flashbacks..not so much now as back then. they were so frequent that I hardly slept. They were so awful and i was so stressed from them that it made my daily life almost unbearable. So much that in my junior year of high school I nearly took the head off a guy that had been tormenting me more many years. An emotional breakdown . All the stuff from that nite and other stuff I had buried deep inside just came spilling out.
Up till that day - no one knew about the rape cause I hid it from everyone- even my mom. She still doesn't know the true ugliness of that nite- I just am unable to share that. (almost said can't) not yet anyway.
As much as I have worked some of the issues resonating from this I know that I still have un-resolved issues that require some professional help to guide me through it, I just am finding it difficult in making that second step in acutally seeking out and connecting with a counselor. *tears up

I want to be able to feel freely enough to share my heart, my emotions, my fears, my joy, my mind just like I am able to here in the forums ; however, I am afraid.
Afraid of sharing such personal demons that I've long kept locked away inside. Fear that I will not be 'in control' and lose myself, my precious gains that I've made thus far. I guess I mean to say that I am afraid mostly of 'letting go' - to feel without holding back. To share all of me-not just the physical, but also of the things that made me who i am- i want freedom.

pauses and ponders....

Drew and I had this discussion about counseling last nite. Well, he talked I mostly listening and bawled. ( my normal-emotional wreck self). I agreed that counsleing would help and know how much his counselor has helped him, and voiced much of what I just posted to you Pan- regarding not feeling that I'd be able to share openly with one. Finding one that I can feel openly trusting with as well.
I have a few names of counselors in my area, but be darned if not making up excuses of why I haven't called yet.
Ok- i could keep writing but I'll stop for now .
Have a great day and as always- HUGSS!

__________________
With Love, Light and with a Joyously singing heart,
Laly
Old forum threads of mine :
http://tiny.cc/KOx0x - shy newbie
http://tiny.cc/mt9sd - letting go of anger
http://tiny.cc/wR7Hb - multiple orgasm success-insight

I read this in a book today "You never know how much courage you have until you face your greatest fears head on".

I personally like you Laly, and consider us friends, I accept you.

I do hope you take the step and begin seeing a counselor, I understand why seeing another person under such conditions is very hard; issues of trust and possibly being vulnerable can easily block a person from taking that step. You have my compassion and my support.

From my experiences with counseling, it was more about learning ways to be more comfortable with what happened and becoming ok about the personal toll it took during the years that followed. Counseling was a gradual process, and I never once felt I was being pushed to open up or any of that, in time I became very comfortable about seeing my counselor.

I hope my words help to melt some of the anxiety.

Laguna

Hi Laly,

I'm so sorry I missed your post until now. If Laguna hadn't replied, I never would have seen it (thanks Laguna)!

Laly, I hope you'll take Drew and Laguna's advice on this. Personally, I don't think of you as someone who needs counseling, so much as someone who DESERVES counseling. And as much as it warms my heart to know that you feel safe to talk about your feelings here with us, I want you to have someone who can be there for you in person.

And like Laguna said, a good counselor will just provide you with a space that ALLOWS you to open up, if and when you feel like it. At least that's how mine were. And I would like for you to have that kind of safety zone in your life.

For now, I'm just really glad that you feel safe talking to Drew about these things. In my opinion, that's already a big step in the right direction!

HUGS!

Pan :-)

Thanks Laguna _ HUGSS

Thank you too Pan...

As much as I have come thus far by myslef, I know that I do need that professional help as well. And I do agree that it needs to be with someone I feel comfortable with in sharing the "inner me".
I think Drew said it best "what are you afraid of sharing?" I have spent much of this week pondering that exact question. a great sense of turmoil and quandry has been batted about lately on my part. I do have the names of some counselors near to me (altho Drew - I do so wish I drove )... and made a promise to Jack that I would call them.
I have come to the realization that it has come down to not trusting myself enough to let go - to open and show that I am not the 16 yr old frightened girl anymore. To let someone other than me see her and help me to heal her.

__________________
With Love, Light and with a Joyously singing heart,
Laly
Old forum threads of mine :
http://tiny.cc/KOx0x - shy newbie
http://tiny.cc/mt9sd - letting go of anger
http://tiny.cc/wR7Hb - multiple orgasm success-insight

I read this in a book today "You never know how much courage you have until you face your greatest fears head on".