• Ghostwalker and donnoi join Jack for a discussion on following the Protocol and the benefits of taking time off between practices.
• Jack inquires how Ghostwalker's practice is going. He responds that he is practicing every now and then. Jack says this is a good approach as one of the biggest challenges is to slow down and release expectations. Ghostwalker says he has had better luck with reverse breathing as if articulating the Key Sound. Jack inquires whether he feels a vibration in the chest when he does make the Key Sound. Ghostwalker replies that he does.
• Ghostwalker mentions that he has not used stimulation much as he is trying to get a solid base in making the Key Sound and relaxing breaths. Jack suggests he introduce a single caress once every few cycles of the Key Sound plus regular relaxing breaths.
• Ghostwalker says that he notices a shudder-like movement around the perineum that is rather pleasant. Jack tells him these are Echo Effects and not to fall into the trap of thinking "yes but it's not barnburning orgasms yet". He goes on to say that would be a good time to introduce the singe caress.
• donnoi says that entering the orgasmic realm seems to expand physical energy and even balance the body and contribute to healing. He goes on to say that as far as touches go, a focus on the perineum is very productive. When that area comes alive, you can then move the sensation to other areas of the body, such as nipples, hands, and heart. Jack advises the readers to take note of these tips.
• Ghostwalker notes that the best part is the simplicity, just relax and take your time even though that is the toughest part for him. Jack says it is simple once one quiets the mind-noise and the urge the chase the feelings. donnoi adds that eventually the Echo Effects chase you if you are not too eager.
• Jack asks donnoi about the benefits of taking a day of between practices. donnoi says it allows the subconscious mind time to integrate and consolidate the experience. Jack agrees and adds that also helps release the tendency to chase after the experiences.
• Jack concludes by thanking Ghostwalker and donnoi for their participation.

Session Start: Thu Oct 13 17:44:53 2005
Jack> Heyyyy Ghostwalker, welcome!
Ghostwalker> Good evening!
Jack> I see you've been having a great dialogue
Jack> with Laly and Yomo in the Forum. :-)
Ghostwalker> Well, what's the point of having a forum if you only read and don't contribute?
Jack> I totally agree with that!
Jack> That's why I created it.
Jack> How goes your practice?
Ghostwalker> It goes a lot like my Tai Chi practice. Sometimes I feel things, sometimes I don't, but I try to practice at least a little bit every now and then.
Jack> That's a very good approach. One of the biggest
Jack> challenges especially men have,
Jack> Is to slow down enough and release expectations.
Ghostwalker> I've actually found better luck just with doing reverse breathing, as if I were articulating the Key Sound aloud, that I feel something very often. So, that's what I try.
Jack> ...instead of doing what?
Ghostwalker> Actually making the Key Sound.
Ghostwalker> Though I still practice it every so often, softly.
Jack> Makes me wonder if you're making the Key Sound correctly when you *have* made it out loud.
Jack> Yes, softly is correct.
Ghostwalker> I judged that by whether I felt something or not, and I could sense a difference, that I tried to use as a guide.
Jack> When you make the Key Sound,
Jack> Have you ever placed one of your hands on your chest
Jack> to sense if there is any vibration there?
Ghostwalker> Yes, I read through the .pdf file and tried that. It's something we also tried when making sounds like "OM" or "AA" and we try to do the same thing, make the chest(or even the whole body) vibrate instead of just your throat.
Ghostwalker> And the times I made my chest vibrate, and had the rolling quality, were when I could feel things just like in the reverse breathing.
Jack> Sounds like you're right on track!
Ghostwalker> Yep! Just time to relax and practice.
Jack> That's it!
Ghostwalker> Stimulation is something I'm not too sure about yet, so right now I'm just trying to get a good solid base in making the Key Sound first, as well as the breathing.
Jack> Well, remember that the stimulation is only a single touch or caress,
Jack> It never need be any more than that during actual practice.
Ghostwalker> Indeed. That'll take some time to get used to, as I'm sure it will for many guys.
Jack> Most definitely!
Jack> But that's really all that is necessary...
Jack> One thing you might do is introduce that single caress only once every few cycles of
Jack> the Key Sound plus regular relaxing breaths.
Ghostwalker> Ahh..
Jack> wb donnoi!
Ghostwalker> Greetings!
donnoi> Hi all.
Jack> donnoi,
Jack> I was just talking with Ghostwalker
Jack> About gradually introducing the single touch or caress into his practice,
Jack> Perhaps even only once every few cycles
Jack> Of the Key sound plus relaxing breaths...
Jack> That is because up until now he has been practicing without, for the most part,
Jack> Using any stimulation at all. That of course is fine, I'm just going to offer him
Jack> A possible next step, when he's ready to choose into it.
donnoi> sounds good, I'll just listen in.
Jack> Or... donnoi how about you pick up the Talking Stick, if you like?
donnoi> I don't have anything urgent to say ...
Jack> Me either... :-) I'm just here to help.
donnoi> I'm just enjoying my practice and the many nuances that continue to amaze!
Jack> That's GREAT! What are you noticing?
Jack> I'm here to answer any questions or offer suggestions, if asked. I love to hear you both
Jack> share what your experience is like, if you feel like sharing.
donnoi> I am more than ever convinced that the sexual drive and energy is key to the fulfillment of human life in all ways.
Jack> What in your experience leads you to that conclusion?
Ghostwalker> Well, when I do the breathing properly, and the Key Sound, it's a bit like the area around my perineum tenses, in a shudder-like movement that's rather pleasant. More and more I've been trying to just relax, and follow it with my mind, without causing the area to tense up again. That's the best way I could explain it.
Jack> That's the perfect strategy!
Ghostwalker> I hope it works
Jack> Congratulations on feeling the new Echoes!
Jack> I already IS!
Jack> That's what the Echoes are telling you!
Ghostwalker>
Jack> Watch out for the "yes but it's not barnburning orgasms yet." :-)
Jack> = trap
Jack> .
Ghostwalker> Haven't fallen into that one yet, thankfully.. I wasn't worried about feeling orgasms yet.
Ghostwalker> However, I notice it's a slight feeling, that fades quickly. When I heard echoes, I was thinking almost like an undulating wave that slowly fades. For me, its more of an echo effect, still, rather than effects.
Ghostwalker> In Tai Chi, the rule of thumb is that you should acknowledge something, but not focus on it. Chi is shy, and it quickly runs away when you chase after it I'm thinking that might be a problem I'll encounter with this, that natural impulse to acknowledge it, and chase after it, rather than just let it happen.
Jack> As you continue to practice relaxing as the shuddering, etc. continues (i.e., as the Echo Effects continue to awaken )
Jack> Good time to introduce that single caress, brother, if you're ok with that. Like I said, maybe even just
Jack> once every few cycles of KS plus relaxing breathing.
Ghostwalker> About that caress.. where do you recommend? I mentioned in the post that I really don't have any 'hot spots' per se that I've discovered yet. Is there anywhere you recommend trying to explore?
Jack> I don't consider a single touch " chasing " but that's my own sense of it.
Jack> Any please that has even the slightest erotic pleasantness to it... that can be a direct genital contact,
Jack> or in the perineum area since it is signal ling you that the chi is awakening there
Jack> .
Ghostwalker> Oh.. when I meant 'chasing' I meant consciously focusing on that wave,focusing on the area that it comes from.
Ghostwalker> That's a common 'trap' of sorts with Tai Chi. Usually people will feel burning or pulsing in their hands, and get excited, like "WOW! It's here! Look!" and then the minute they focus on it, it goes away.
Jack> Well, don't set up too many rules for yourself. You might be overloading things a bit. This doesn't have to be rigorous.
Ghostwalker> <--- biggest problem for me, right there
Jack> LOL!
Ghostwalker> I tend to be rather hard on myself, you're right.
Jack> Relax the RULES, too!
Jack> That's your new rule for this. ;-)
Ghostwalker> Yessir! *salutes*
Jack> ( actually, just a guideline ) :-)
Ghostwalker> Aye, just like the Pirate's Code, m'lad.
Jack> I would say there has been a bit of an emotional furball -- that concern that IF you do x then that will chase away the effect.
Jack> LOL!
Jack> LOL was re: Pirate's Code.
Ghostwalker> I think you're right! But now that we know about it, it can be dealt with!
Jack> Voila!
Jack> Trust the Force, Luke!
Ghostwalker> Let go, Luke!
Ghostwalker> Or, depending on your movie preference, Da Schwartz!
Ghostwalker>
Jack> Yep, if you'll remember the scene between Obiwan and Luke, that's exactly what Obi was communicating... relax into the process.
Jack> Sure! or even Da Da ... :-)
Jack> Right b4 you came back in channel after helping Dad, I'd asked donnoi if he'd share what experiences he's been having that have been underscoring his sense that sexual drive
Jack> and energy is the key to fulfillment in all things.
Jack> Would it be ok to pass donnoi the Talking Stick for a bit to give him a chance to elaborate on that, if he wishes?
Ghostwalker> Of course!
donnoi> I am happier when I enter orgasmic realm for one thing. It seems to expand physical energy and even balance the body and contribute to healing. It gives a greater joy and lightness of being. My patience and compassion for others is greater and my appreciation of every sensory experience.
donnoi> As far as touches go, I find that a focus on the perineum is very productive. Sensitizing that area is very helpful to rapid induction of MMO - even if the cultivation of that awareness is more though attention than touch. It does seem to be a door to awareness of the entire energy system of the body. When that area comes alive, one can move that sensation to other areas of the body as well by concentrating on less sensitive
donnoi> as, perhaps the nipples for men. eventually even the hands and heart share the energy with another.
Jack> READERS PLEASE NOTE DONNOI'S TIP!
donnoi> (I was typing as you were talking)
donnoi> This is so deep a subject and I'm still learning so much.
Jack> Yeah I really agree with the perineum area. That why I sometimes refer to it as a Male G-Spot. Not the only one, but certainly one of the most significant.
donnoi> Thanks for the validation.
Jack> Yeah we all are still learning about it, donnoi. I and others in the previous chats have discussed the fractal quality of the experience : gateway upon gateway upon gateway ...
Jack> You are very, very welcome!
Ghostwalker> And the best part, I feel, is the simplicity. Just relax, and take your time.
Jack> Yeah! Isn't that great?
donnoi> Right on!
Ghostwalker> Even if it is the toughest part for me right now. It's very worth it.
Jack> It really is pretty simple ... once one quiets the mind-noise and the urge to chase the feelings.
Jack> What is it that's tough for you?
Ghostwalker> Quieting the chattering monkey, and just relaxing, going easy on myself, and taking my time.
donnoi> Eventually the echo effects begin to chase you if you keep from being TOO eager.
Ghostwalker> I've made a lot of progress in the past five years, I feel, but it's something I have to be vigilant on every now and then.
Jack> I agree with donnoi, G... and instead of "working on" "trying" to quiet the chattering monkey... just go on about your bidness and at some
Jack> point the monkey will become speechless!
Ghostwalker> I've noticed that a lot, often enough to annoy me. You can try for hours to do something.. and then, before you know it, you just do it without even thinking, and it was the easiest thing in the world. Then the minute you -realize- that, and -try- to do it again, you fail. It taunts you. Now I can laugh about it, though, instead of getting frustrated.
Jack> That's a GREAT shift!
donnoi> When you trust in the reality of a thing enough. It begins to happen of itself. Keep practicing.
Jack> And keep taking at least one day off between practices.
donnoi> Very true, it is important.
Jack> donnoi, what benefits, if any, have you noticed from taking the day off between practices?
donnoi> I thing that the subconscious mind need time to integrate and consolidate the experience ...
Jack> yeah, I agree!
Jack> It also helps people release the tendency to chase after the experiences.
Jack> This has been borne out by the reports of people who notice some of their strongest Echo Effects
Jack> on the days BETWEEN practice sessions.
donnoi> It learns what it needs for the next time.
Jack> Yeah that's a GREAT WAY OF PUTTING IT donnoi!
Ghostwalker> Echo effects even when they do not practice?
Jack> Imagine!
Jack> ;-P
Ghostwalker> lol
donnoi> Yes, It's them chasing you!
Jack> That is SO unlike the "going for it!" pattern, isn't it?
donnoi> Very much so!
donnoi> The body wants to play this game. It is a new freedom and involvement in life at the deepest most fulfilling level. It will ask you to come out and play.
Jack> Yeah that's exactly the working hypothesis I used to ask my body to teach me how to discover this in the first place!
Jack> I knew it was coded in to our DNA and I just needed to listen and learn.
donnoi> Life is orgasmic in it;s cycles and now you begin to participate most profoundly in concert with it.
donnoi> It clears block in the, body, mind and emotions I believe.
Jack> Yeah, I agree!
donnoi> perhaps I'm being to philosophical about this. I can't help it.
Jack> LOL, no apologies necessary! These experiences MERIT new philosophy!
Jack> Well guys, is there anything else you'd like to address this evening? I know it's early still, but I feel myself starting to fade. Been a long, full week.
Ghostwalker> I can relate to that, heh.
Jack> I'm happy to address any issues that may still be up for you though.
donnoi> I'm good.
Jack> Yes you are!
donnoi> lol.
Jack> ;-)
Jack> Ok, well I want to thank you both for being here tonight. I think you're both doing great... Enjoy your continuing discoveries!
donnoi> Thanks Jack and good night Ghostwalker.
Ghostwalker> Thanks you two, g'night
Jack> And good night to you both!
Session Close: Thu Oct 13 19:31:38 2005

gold nugget - good info regarding what may be hot spots for men

__________________
With Love, Light and with a Joyously singing heart,
Laly
Old forum threads of mine :
http://tiny.cc/KOx0x - shy newbie
http://tiny.cc/mt9sd - letting go of anger
http://tiny.cc/wR7Hb - multiple orgasm success-insight

I read this in a book today "You never know how much courage you have until you face your greatest fears head on".