Session Start:
me_myself12345> Hello, everyone.
bilko> Hya!
Pan> Hi me, welcome to the chat!
Drew> Hello.
bilko> First time here?
me_myself12345> yeah
bilko> welcome.
Drew> Welcome!
Drew> How may we assist you?
me_myself12345> who's in charge here?
Pan> I suppose that would me. :-)
Pan> normally it would be Jack, but he's out of town today.
me_myself12345> so, obviously, I must be interested in the key sound method, right?
Pan> LOL! Right! so,
Pan> have you started practicing yet?
me_myself12345> yeah, i've tried practicing.
me_myself12345> couldn't quite get it to work, but I believe that I can see gold underneath my nose.
Pan> Great! how long have you been at it?
me_myself12345> i started on it in september.
me_myself12345> sometimes, I feel a little bit of arousal, but it usually only lasts a few minutes
me_myself12345> i was wondering if maybe i needed to already be in some sort of aroused state of mind before beginning?
Pan> no, not really.
Pan> Would you mind telling us in your own words, what your understanding of the Protocol is?
me_myself12345> my understanding of the protocol is trying to express arousal through this key sound thing. I understand that it doesn't matter how loud the sound is.
Pan> ok, you're certainly right that volume is not important.
bilko> The volume should never be artificially loud.
me_myself12345> i listened to the audio seminar a number of times, and jack really hammers on that point home.
bhikku> :-) - nods head vigorously.
Pan> he sure does! and with good reason. A lot of folks misunderstand try to "force themselves" to have multiples by making really loud Key Sounds. It doesn't work, and that can be harsh on the throat too!
me_myself12345> I have an angry neighbor who complains about the noises I make just going about my life.
Pan> I hear ya re: angry neighbors! But fortunately you don't have to be loud with this to be successful!
Pan> so what we want to do here is discuss some of the finer points in your practice, starting with the very beginning of your sessions.
Pan> this way we can find any places where you may be off-Protocol and steer you in the right direction.
me_myself12345> obviously, i must be off protocol to some degree...
Pan> most people are in the beginning. it just takes some fine tuning along the way.
Pan> ok, so when you begin, are you in the recommended position Jack describes in his seminar?
me_myself12345> i've tried that, and a number of other positions; please clarify exactly what position you mean.
Pan> on your back, knees up, a pillow behind your head and shoulders.
me_myself12345> yeah, that's it.
Pan> great. Ok, so when you begin, how do you know when to make the Key Sound?
me_myself12345> I really don't. So, can you explain what I need to do to make myself "ready" to make the ks?
Pan> sure thing, here's the first part of the Protocol, please bare with me as I type...
Pan> begin first by taking a moment or two to relax, breathe, let go of any tensions or stresses from the day,
Pan> when you're ready to begin, go ahead and use just a TINY bit of stimulation,
Pan> JUST ENOUGH so that you feel some erotic pleasure, or tingles, or whatever,
Pan> NOTE: erection is NOT necessary for this practice, so don't be concerned with that.
me_myself12345> yeah, it seems that you are already implying that you must start out already aroused.
Pan> nope! i'm sure how you got that impression. I'm saying you want to start out RELAXED.
bilko> (Note - aroused is not the same thing as excited).
bhikku> An analogy that works for me is you want to be in a state where there is space for echoes to emerge.
Pan> Good one Bilko! ok, so when you feel ANY amount of pleasure from that VERY FIRST erotic touch or caress,
Pan> you EXPRESS that with your first Key Sound,
Pan> just enough to match the subtle pleasure you feel, don't force or try to make it louder in any way than what feels natural.
me_myself12345> it seems hard to make the ks natural.
Pan> ok, then the first thing you want to do is,
Pan> listen to Jack's demonstration of the KS in his seminar and practice it without stimulation,
Pan> until it sounds just like his and feels natural.
Pan> and casually feel for any Echo Effects you might get from those Key Sounds alone, without stimulation.
me_myself12345> I've listened to his demo ad nauseum.
Pan> and how often do you practice the Key sounds? Do yours sound like his?
bhikku> At the start - echoes are subtle. Really subtle.
me_myself12345> I've found that mine usually sound a bit higher-pitched.
Pan> ok, try just listening to his Key Sound demo's and imitating that, until it feels good and natural.
me_myself12345> i have focused more on the breathing with the sound he describes than the sound itself; it seems that the sound is about breathing a certain way.
Pan> it's important to get the Key Sound down before you do anything else.
me_myself12345> i can make that ks all day.
Pan> do you get any pleasurable feelings (Echo Effects) from that?
me_myself12345> usually only a little bit, and they dissapear in a few minutes.
Pan> that's fine. They get better over time. So when you said the Key Sound didn't feel natural, what did you mean?
me_myself12345> it doesn't seem very resonant; it feels like i'm just making a sound most of the time, nothing more.
Pan> so, you ARE getting some good feelings, but nothing big. is that right?
me_myself12345> right
.Pan> no problem. I suggest you just keep practicing the KS and checking it with Jack's demo occasionally,
Pan> now, back to that Protocol,
Pan> this is important:
Pan> after you make that first Key Sound, PAUSE stimulation and be aware of any new and good feelings (Echo Effects) that may come up,
Pan> allow yourself at least 3-5 breaths after that Key Sound, while still pausing your stimulation,
Pan> use that time to feel what your Key Sound does for your arousal,
Pan> when you feel like you're ready, begin using JUST A LITTLE stimulation again,
Pan> JUST ENOUGH to get another pleasurable response and express THAT with your next Key Sound, and so on.
Pan> Remember to keep PAUSING STIMULATION after each Key Sound long enough to fully feel those Echo Effects (usually 3-5 breaths), and then resume stimulation as they start to recede a bit.
Pan> if you're on Protocol, making good Key Sounds, relaxing, etc,Pan> those Echo Effects will gradually BUILD. Eventually, as you get better and better,
Pan> that building effect will trigger the multi-orgasmic response!
Pan> any questions?
me_myself12345> It seems that what I have done has resulted in feeling some pleasure, but it drops down in just a few minutes.
bhikku> I have one - do you *ever* increase the level of stimulation?
Pan> (be right with you Bhikku)
bhikku> (k - no worries)
Pan> ok, can you describe how you've been practicing compared with the Protocol I just described?
me_myself12345> I had the understanding that it should be done first without stimulation. Usually, when I try stimulation, well then that doesn't last very long
Pan> so you mean you end up "going for it," eventually?
Pan> i.e. you go past your Point of No Return and ejaculate?
me_myself12345> yeah, the thing that brought me here was, when I "go for it", not only do things not last very long, but I feel very little pleasure and arousal; I would say, sometimes, none at all :
bilko> That's very common.
Pan> right, well part of the trick with this is to decide ahead of time that during these sessions, you're not gonna go for it. You can always do that another time. : )me_myself12345> I kept hearing that even solo sex is very pleasurable for many people, so I thought that maybe I was doing something wrong.
Pan> by solo sex, you mean with this practice? or just in general?
me_myself12345> in general.
Pan> well, most folks seem to enjoy it. : )
me_myself12345> it seemed i did it in response to some kind of primitive urge, no pleasure at all sometimes.
bhikku> I can relate to that.
Pan> Ah, I see. Well, I think that's pretty common too.
Pan> is that what got you interested in trying this technique?
me_myself12345> yes
me_myself12345> actually, this is one of a few places i looked, and it seems to be the most promising.
Pan> Well, I certainly am VERY glad I learned it! how bout the rest of you guys?
bilko> Yep!!
bhikku> Welll, still learning but - OMG this has opened up so much for me already.
bhikku> No going back :-)
me_myself12345> i've been wondering what the ramifications are.
me_myself12345> I would think that it would be easier and more natural if we were meant to experience sexuality like this.
Pan> well that's why we're here. Once I learned this, that's EXACTLY how I felt. Like, why doesn't anyone know about this?
bhikku> Well, part of it is that this is *not* 'take a pill and everything will be solved'.
bhikku> There is time to be put in to open up to new experience.
bhikku> BUT - the rewards are quite wonderful. And freeing.
Pan> Well said Bhikku! I like to say this technique is a "way to grow," more than a "thing to do."
me_myself12345> Someone must have figured this out before.
bhikku> Sure - you ever read anything of Bhuddist tantra?
bhikku> I think there is a lot in there about opening to energy and experiencing the flow. I do not think this technique has been expounded before tho.
me_myself12345> Perhaps it came naturally before we, as a society, began to treat sex as a "dirty thing."
Pan> YES! I agree me_.
me_myself12345> My idea was, maybe people experienced this in the past, but saw no reason to write about it.
bilko> Maybe before all the ancient knowledge was lost.
bhikku> Then again - maybe we used to be a lot closer to this 'primal' state of sexuality, before society put all the labels, expectations and roles in the way.
bilko> Very good point bhikku!
bhikku> For me - it seems to be a deep process of 'unlearning'.
me_myself12345> exactly, like I said, I seems that if we were meant to experience this, it shouldn't take a genius to figure it out.
Pan> This is all right in accordance with Jack's theory. :-)
me_myself12345> what is the theory?
Pan> that this ability, this orgasmic expression is part of our DNA. We're all born knowing how to do this deep down.
me_myself12345> He suggests in the seminar that it has some kind of evolutionary purpose, I wonder what it could be? I supposed you could have a different theory if you believe in intelligent design.]
bhikku> - an analogy from my own spirituality. Deep down we all know how to be enlightened. Doesn't make it obvious how to get there though.
bhikku> Genius is seeing the simple path through the seemingly impossible.
bilko> We unlearn our perfection shortly after birth.
Pan> ok, since we have a few folks here waiting to get questions answered, let's try to get back to that for now, ok?
me_myself12345> k
bilko> (please do stick around tho)
bhikku> Good luck me_m... Stick with it. It opens up. Trust it!
Pan> me_, let's make sure you have a good grasp of the Protocol, could you tell me in your own words how to do it?
me_myself12345> ok then,
me_myself12345> first relax,
me_myself12345> then, begin stimulation
Pan> how much?
me_myself12345> express stimulation with ks
Pan> hold there.
Pan> how much stim?
me_myself12345> only a little,
me_myself12345> then pause for a few breaths and feel the echo effects
Pan> ok, good. another thing about that pause,
me_myself12345> k
Pan> pause just long enough to really feel and process those feelings,
Pan> but don't wait until they all disappear,
Pan> go ahead and resume your stimulation when you're still feeling some of those Echo Effects,
Pan> that's what helps them build on each toher.
me_myself12345> ok, thanks.
Pan> ok, cool. is there anything else we can answer for you at this time?
me_myself12345> i think that'll do it for now.
Pan> ok, great. But please feel free to stick around as long as you like. So I believe it was Bhikku who was next in line? bhikku you had a question earlier?
bhikku> Yup - just about following the protocol. I remember some discussion about
bhikku> allowing stimulation to increase.
bhikku> But I wonder is that *stretching* the protocol actually beneficial?
Pan> ah ok. Well, that's tricky...
bhikku> :-)
Pan> here's the thing: you CAN allow more stimulation, BUT you should not try this until
Pan> you've already learned how to experience multiples in this way.
bhikku> now *that* is a good guideline.
Pan> :-)
Pan> Ideally, if you're able to have multiples solo AND enjoy this during intercourse with a partner,
Pan> than at that point, you're probably safe to determine your own stimulation patterns in solo practice.
bhikku> I have been tempted to stretch it a few times. And each time except the last time, I ended up ejaculating
bhikku> (did feel rather good though - a lot more deeply/completely felt)
Pan> LOL! Hey that's just fine. But,
Pan> it makes the point of why the PAUSES are sooo important!
bhikku> On the no-stim front, the other night I did get quite a long way with nothing but the KS.
bhikku> Varies depending on mood/energy.
Pan> absolutely. Believe it or not, you can potentially reach a point where a good Key Sound alone is enough to trigger multiples.
bhikku> So - as a guide for my own practice, to paraphrase.
bhikku> Stick with the minimal stim. Resist the temptation to increase the level...
bhikku> and work on using the protocol to let things build.
Pan> exactly!
Pan> you said it perfectly.
bhikku> Okay - thanks Pan - that is useful info; I have been a little confused about that point.
Pan> no problem! anything else for now?
* bhikku has quit IRC (QUIT: )
Pan> guess not, lol.
Pan> ok, so who was next? was it boy or angus?
Pan> how bout we check in with boy for now?
angus> i do have some q's.
boy> go ahead angus
Pan> (thanks boy) ok angus, how ya been?
angus> thanks boy, i will try to be succinct. and not too bad pan.
Pan> no sweat buddy. go right ahead.
angus> my questions arise today regarding stim and touching,
angus> i wonder what level of touching you adepts find works for you,
angus> and when it becomes more like stim? the reason i ask is
angus> because i find that stim kind of sets me off in a non arousal path,
angus> and touching detracts me from listening and feeling my echoes.
Pan> ok, when you say "stim," could you be more specific? What particular form of stim takes you off Protocol?
angus> well since i came into the ks world around may,
bhikku> (Auuughhh. Sorry to break off mid-sentence like that. My 2 year old just found the off button...)
Pan> (LOL!, no problem Bhikku)
angus> there was still the breathing part of the protocal that is no longer
angus> a big part of the learning process, so i find mysel
fangus> still trying to time my breath with my stim(penile),
angus> and that sets me off in a bit of a spin. generally
angus> speaking, penile stim seems to lessen the effects.
bhikku> (nodding vigorously)
Pan> ok, so first thing ya wanna do is to let go of that old "timing" habit (sorry we confused you with that),
Pan> just let your breathing do what it wants, as long as it's not centered high in your chest,
Pan> and it'll be fine.
angus> yeah, it is a habit for sure, and harder to break than i thought! so,
angus> can one do the sound anywhere along the breath?
bhikku> (good question!)
Pan> that IS a good one!
Pan> the answer is, YES you can!
Pan> don't even worry about your breathing. It will take care of itself.
angus> so as soon as you feel a bit of a zing, just express that with the sound?
Pan> EXACTLY! That's ALL you need to do as far as the Key sound is concerned.
bhikku> sorry for chiming in - but 'straight away?'
Pan> ALSO a good question!
Pan> pretty much "straight away." BUT, it doesn't have to be absolutely IMMEDIATE,
Pan> for instance, you may notice that during that erotic 'zing' or good feeling, or whatever,
Pan> that your body WANTS to take a bit of an inhale, so just let that happen IF that's the case.
Pan> if that inhale seems to just happen, it may mean you'll feel like expressing that arousal with a slighter larger (i.e. louder, longer) Key sound.
Pan> so, basically, when you get that 'zing,' just do what feels good! if that means
Pan> expressing that feeling with a Key Sound the very moment you feel it, go ahead.
Pan> if it makes you want to inhale a bit first, let that happen and THEN let it all out with your Key sound.
angus> ok, so i prefer to avoid penile stim, what about touching? i have approached this as a kind of meditation, keeping very still and listening. does anyone massage or caress themselves during echoes?
bilko> Perineum or nipple doesn't seem to drown out the echoes too much Angus in my experience.
Pan> well, it's probably best to avoid stimulation in general during those pauses until
Pan> you are getting multiples regularly.
angus> so you think of touching as stim pan?
Pan> well, only if it feels erotic I suppose.
Pan> If you're just massaging your chest for example, that may not be a problem.
Pan> but anything that produces even a slight erotic pleasure, should be paused for those 3-5 (or more) breaths.
angus> so laying still and focusing on the feelings is a common way to approach this?
Pan> yeah Angus, but, "laying still" sounds kinda dull. But, pausing and ENJOYING those Echoes is definitely important (and FUN!).
angus> it does feel a little dull. that is why i ask what you adepts find yoursself doin.
Pan> ok Angus, so you're saying,
Pan> that you aren't feeling all that much enjoyment during those pauses, is that right?
angus> sometimes, i just feel i should be more 'active', and i want to find a way to appease that feeling
angus> without going off protocol.
Pan> are you feeling at least some pleasure after those Key Sounds, but during the pauses?
angus> oh yeah, but i do go through periods where my 'energy' is not as vibrant,
angus> so i guess i get a little bored remaining still and i start thinking there must be
angus> some way to move this forward a bit,
angus> so i try a bit of touching towards the end of the echoes etc to see if that helps.
Pan> ok, I hear ya. How do your key sounds feel? Do you get a good erotic boost from them?
angus> my sound is up and down as well. it has been more consistent since
angus> we chatted about taking more time between echoes and letting the erotic energy subside more.
Pan> good! So I'm thinking that you just need a little more practice in really finding that full expression with your Key Sounds,
Pan> in order to increase your Echo Effects a bit.
Pan> also,
Pan> I think it's ok if you want to shorten your pauses just a TINY bit,
Pan> to let them build a little more. BUT,
Pan> if you start to get aroused to a point where your Key Sounds are not coming out smoothly and easily,
Pan> let those pauses extend more until you are back in a good place for your key Sound expression.
angus> i think it would help if i could find a way to get the stim down with the sound. i do better without any stim, though i want to add some.
Pan> Well, the trick is really in using just the enough stim to let your Key Sound AMPLIFY your pleasure FOR YOU. If
Pan> you're on Protocol, no additional stim should be necessary to get a nice build towards multiples.
Pan> so, getting that erotic feeling to "hook into," your Key Sound is the real "Key" here.
Pan> is this making any sense so far?angus> well i will try just perineum stim, nipple touching , belly etc as bilko mentioned and see if i can incorporate penile stim in later.
Pan> that sounds good. Just watch the perineal stim, as it can be quite strong too.
angus> yes pan, is it ok just to do the sound for 20-30 min?
Pan> oh sure! as long you FEEL GOOD, you can go as long as YOU WANT TO!
angus> if that works, can one add some light stim at that point?
Pan> absolutely! it's actually a pretty good idea.
Pan> by practicing with your KS before using stim, you may be able to open up more ahead of time.
angus> ok, i thnk that is clear for now. i may have been slipping off protocol by touching/masaging later in the echoes.
Pan> yeah, it may take just a little practice to feel out how long to pause and when to resume stim, etc. But I'm sure you'll get there! :-)
angus> it will be nice to get beyond the level of echoes i have been feeling for some months now.
Pan> well, just remember to enjoy your practice. That's the best way to get where you want to go.
angus> i may be wanting the Big One too much!
Pan> Well, that's certainly one of the BIGGEST TRAPS in this practice. ;-)
Pan> Like I said, if you really like where you ARE, you'll be "there," before you know it!
angus> but it is so natural to want it. sometimes it is hard to let it go.
Pan> ah, but it's also natural to enjoy all the good feelings you're having NOW, right?
angus> thats a good point! well thanks for the time and encouragement. that helps alot.
Pan> always happy to help brother!
angus> what a great way to help others!
Pan> no kidding! It's one the BEST ways I know of!
bilko> And you do too with your posts angus!
Pan> so are you all set for now?
angus> sure, give someone else a go mate. and thanks bilko too!
Pan> ok! so...zac! how ya doin?
zac> pretty much the same as angus.
Pan> ok, can you tell us how long have you been practicing?
zac> about 1 year on & off.
zac> a lot depends on my energy level,
zac> whether i make progress or not.
Pan> No doubt! Having energy for practice is absolutely essential.
Pan> so, you said you're at a similar place as Angus? care to elaborate a little?
zac> it doesn't go smoothly along the arousal path.
zac> i mean from low to high.
Pan> ok, would you be up for telling us in your own words your understanding of the Protocol?
zac> a bit of stim, ks, wait for echos, continue on as before.
Pan> cool, so when you're waiting for Echoes, what's your stim like?
zac> none.
Pan> GOOD! (trick question) ;-)
zac> yes i picked it.
bilko> LOL
Pan> LOL! ok,
Pan> so when you make your Key Sounds, do they feel expressive?
zac> sometimes, most times not.
Pan> ok. can you describe how it feels when they're not? how's your arousal level at those times, etc?
zac> flat
Pan> AH, ok. makes sense to me!
Pan> so, is it like that during the whole session, or are there times when you ARE aroused...?
zac> there are times of good arousal.
Pan> k, do you start out with good arousal and then it diminshes? or does it ebb and flow?
zac> both actually at different times.
zac> sometimes when waking in the morning i start with good arousal & then it diminishes.
Pan> yeah, morning is a good time for most folks to do this practice. It's important to have plenty of fresh energy available.
Pan> do you ever practice late at night or before bed-time?
zac> occasionally i get an o as well in the morning, yes practice any old time
Pan> when you get an "o" do you mean non-ejauclatory orgasm or regular ejaculatory orgasm?
zac> non ejac
.bilko> with KS practice?
Pan> Cool! could you describe how that feels for the readers?
zac> i used to get ejac o's, but got past that now, yes with ks practice.
zac> non ejac o feels very good, intense pleasure inside,
zac> i just can't keep it going.
Pan> does this happen more than once in a session?
zac> usually only once in a session.
Pan> ok, congratulations just the same!
zac> thanks
Pan> so, could you describe those moments when that happens, how is your session going? how do your Key Sounds feel?
zac> my ks fade away to silent ones.
Pan> ok, how about the build up to that "o." what sets the stage for it?
zac> just relaxing, mental stim, some physical stim, quiet ks.
Pan> ok, so when you are pasuing stimulation,
Pan> do you resume stim while you are still feeling some of those Echoe Effects?
zac> noPan> OK! I think that may explain at least part of why you're having drops in arousal.
Pan> The idea is that those Echo Effects BUILD on each other, eventually triggering multiples orgasms,
Pan> so you want give yourself enough "breathing room" to feel those Echoes after each Key Sound. BUT,
Pan> resume stimulation while you are still feeling them. That gives them a chance to build each time around,
Pan> until your arousal climbs to a point where the orgasms just start to "happen" on their own.
zac> ok i got it.
bilko> (guys when you have a sec I picked up on something Zac said, let me know.)
Pan> please go ahead Bilko!
bilko> Sure, Zac said "I just can't keep it going whereas...
bilko> it should keep him going - you can't force it but..
bilko> the temptation to TAKE OVER from what's happening naturally is great.
bilko> great as in a LOT.
Pan> EXCELLENT point Bilko!
zac> good point Bilko.
Drew> May I ask a question of Zac?
bilko> Thanks Zac, can I make suggestion?
Pan> yes, please do Drew.
zac> go ahead
bilko> Ok drew.
Drew> After you Bilko!
bilko> Ok - zac please review the protocol very closely, I too second guess Jack sometimes &
bilko> it always causes me to undo myself.
Pan> lol! I think we've all been there before!
Drew> Ain't that the truth!
bilko> Life is a constant battle against..
bilko> one's own stupidity!!
zac> that's human nature.
Pan> indeed.
bilko> And that's for everyone on earth, yes Zac.
zac> sure is
bilko> That is a quote from a world chess champ, we are
bilko> all in that zone sometimes.
zac> Thanks guys, i will pay more attention to protocol.
bilko> (yeah & force NOTHING).
bilko> Ok Drew.
Drew> Thanks...
Drew> My quetion for you Zac is regarding arousal and echo effects
Drew> can you describe them... where do you specifically feel them... how do you know you're having one?
zac> do you mean echo effects Drew?
Drew> yes.
zac> like pulsation in the genital area.
Drew> Do you feel anything in any other part of your body?
Drew> Tingles, heat. etc.?
zac> sometimes a tingle up the spine, that's all.
Drew> OK great...
Drew> One of the things that was VERY helpful for me along the way...
Drew> was lightly stimulating OTHER parts of my body (not just my genitals).
Drew> also
Drew> a favourite technique
Drew> is to use of a VERY light touch
Drew> all over my body,
Drew> with the intent
Drew> of moving erotic energy around.
Drew> I use my imagination
Drew> to amplify and spread the good feelings that I am feeling.
Drew> where are you touching?
zac> yes, very light touch is good, when touch gets more than light, i am way off.
zac> penis.
Drew> I get GREAT sensations from lightly touching my legs, abdomen and chest...
Drew> I only occasionally touch my penis...
Drew> at higher levels of arousal...
Drew> a light touch around the scrotum and
Drew> perenium is awesome!
Drew> but that is after the arousal has built...
Pan> I second that! Especially the perineum (personal favorite).
Drew> I would suggest
Drew> encouraging the energy to flow throughout other areas of your body
Drew> through intent,
Drew> imagination,
Drew> and light caresses.
Drew> stay away from contact with your penis.
Drew> let the energy (arousal) flow to and build in other areas of your body.
Drew> Relax into it!
Drew> I get more from a 'light' touch... the key though, is being way turned on before it seems to 'activate'.
zac> ok, i will try that Drew, thank you.
Drew> Your welcome, Zac... Good luck! Over to you, Pan.
angus> may i ask if you guys hve alot of sensation in the perineum or do you have to press more firmly to feel anything?
Pan> (angus, hold that thought, we'll get right in it) zac, I just wanted to add to Bilko's point about not forcing feelings,
Pan> one of the TRAPS in this is trying to keep a specific good feeling going longer than it wants to,
Pan> a major paradox of this practice is: the more you let go of those good feelings after they've surfaced,
Pan> the more open you become to MORE good feelings, different and even more pleasurable than the one's before.
Pan> so the more you let go, the more they come flooding in!
Pan> so, that's my two cents. Did you have any other questions or comments for now?
zac> No more from me for now, thanks for your help guys!
Pan> anytime. Please feel free to come back and let us know how you're doin or make any posts you'd like in the Forum.
Pan> Ok, so back to Angus...
Pan> Since that was a general question, did you guys wanna describe how the perineal stim is for you first?
Pan> ?
Pan> ok well, I guess I'll jump in with my experience...
Pan> when I first started this practice, I followed Jack's advice in the audio seminar by
Pan> gently exploring my perineum and feeling for any "Hot Spots," between my anus and just behind my scrotum,
Pan> at first, it actually felt kinda sore, but over time (about a week or two),
Pan> I noticed more pleasure and the regular massage had completely removed any soreness.
Pan> For me, there are basically 2 major Hot Spots in that area,
Pan> the "Million Dollar point," as Mantak Chia calls it, about an inch in front of my anus, and the other,
Pan> just behind my scrotum.
Pan> I've found that these points are extremely orgasmic, even more so than my penis at times,
Pan> and require very little pressure to be stimulated (although in the beginning I may use more).
Pan> Generally, I begin my sessions with perineal stim, and move on to my penis, either seperately or simultaneously later on,
Pan> but as Drew pointed out, it's an individual choice how to stimulate various erogneous zones in one's session.
angus> the million dollar point, that is place where you can press in quite far is it not? and did regular massage in this area when you first started help to open this area up?
Pan> yes and yes! it took a little time, about 10 minutes of gentle massage every day,
Pan> and after a couple weeks it opened up a LOT! Now it's an essential part of my solo sessions. :-)
bilko> Dry or lubed here Pan?
Pan> definitely lubed. Wouldn't do it any other way.
bilko> Ok one question re the..
bilko> million dollar point pls Pan.
Pan> please go ahead.
bilko> Ok..
bilko> Chia says to dig in quite deep here, what's your take on that?
Pan> GOOD question! In my opinion,
Pan> it's not necessary. although at first, it may take some added pressure (it did for me),
Pan> eventually, that area can become so sensitive and orgasmic that the SLIGHTEST touch or jus
tPan> lightly holding a finger there during my sessions, will produce TREMENDOUS results! In fact,
Pan> in many ways, I find my perineum to be even MORE orgasmic than my penis.
bilko> Any pointers for..
bilko> both readers & myself to help them to..
bilko> locate the right spot Pan?
Pan> sure. First off, it's about half-way between the anus and scrotum,
Pan> the actual spot is approximately the size of a dime,
Pan> the real trick is in taking the time to find it through regular, GENTLE exploration and massage by,
Pan> spending some time, every day, massaging that area and FEELING for ANY new and pleasurable feelings that may arise,
Pan> as Jack suggests in his seminar, using the tips of your three fingers (index, middle, and ring),
Pan> start at the the anus, or rather just above it, and slowly use a "spreading out" massage,"
Pan> moving slowly up your perineum towards your scrotum,
Pan> exploring that center-line of your perineum and to the sides as you gradually move up and then begin again at the bottom.
Pan> While it's good to know about these particular Hot Spots,
Pan> keep in mind that the ENTIRE perineum is potentially orgasmic, so simply explore and feel for ANY pleasure there along the way.
bilko> Thanks Pan, definitive stuff, I have..
bilko> found the other one no problem & it may help to compare notes on that..
bilko> The one just where the scrotum joins on feels to me like there is a thin cord, I don't know if it's a vein or a tube? Any ideas, just hoping we can help people find the spots.
Pan> Well, I've noticed that far more folks around the Forum seem to find that spot more easily than the Million Dollar point,
Pan> I believe the "chord," is the vas deferens tube? Not sure of that, though.
Pan> As for finding it, well...
Pan> the best advice i can give it to follow Jack's example in the seminar, (after all that's what worked for me),
Pan> and simply EXPLORE and stay OPEN to any new feelings that may arise. The Hot Spots should make themselves known without much difficulty.
Pan> I hope that helps.
bilko> That's great stuff Pan thanks, so do you concur about..
bilko> the other spot being just where the cord is?
Pan> oh yes. They are both right on that center-line. But, as I said, it helps to pay
Pan> attention to the SIDES of the perineum as well. I think
Pan> if one simply runs their finger along the center-line it might not produce the same effects or awareness.
Pan> it's that "speading out," massaging motion of the fingers that seems to really wake up those spots.
bilko> Very instructive indeed Pan, thank you!
Pan> My pleasure! So, are there any other questions or comments for today?
Pan> So, I guess we're wrapping up then
?Drew> Time to go 'explore'!?
Pan> LOL! I guess so!
bilko> Yeah, love to all you guys from hot sunny UK.
Pan> lol, hugs all around guys. It's been great as always.
Drew> Congratulations Pan... You were AWESOME!
Pan> aw shucks! thanks brother. I just do my best.
bilko> Happy practising me_, check in at the forum or again here next time.
Pan> yeah, best of luck me_, hope to see ya soon.
Pan> well, if that concludes our discussion for the day, I'm outta here. Take care guys!
bilko>
Drew> You too Pan!
Pan> :-)
Session Close