• Tom from Vancouver BC joined Jack in the chat room and they began by continuing the discussion started in the "Ejaculation Compulsion" conference about "orgasmic deficit" in men and its effects on their attitudes towards women, and possible increased tendencies towards aggression.
  
• Tom recounted how he was definitely aware of the cultural myth that men could not have multiple orgasms, and that he definitely had negative feelings about this. He, like others Jack has heard from, identified "God" and "women" as targets of the resentment he felt about this mythical structural difference between the genders.
  
• The perceived powerlessness of men re: feeling unable to change this apparently gender-defined "limitation" could be seen as very stressful. Tom and Jack wondered what relationship therefore there might be between ability to experience Male Multiple Orgasm and general health and longevity.
  
• Possible links to militarism, the arms race, etc. were also discussed.
  
• Jack then gave Tom some suggestions about how to increase the benefits of his personal practice.
  
• Tom reported noticing some erotic "buzzing" etc. in response to work with the Key Sound, but noticed a plateau, where he couldn't seem to move to any higher levels of arousal.
  
• Jack offered some clues for how to tell when the orgasms are actually beginning, the importance of being able to recognize this for what it is, and some tips on how to use the Key Sound to amplify the "pulses" of pleasure and the accompanying contractions.

Jack> Hello! Pls page me by clicking on the bell icon next to my name.

Jack> Hi Tom!

Tom> Hello Jack!

Jack> I was just responding to your post in the Ejac Compulsion Conference.

Tom> Was the chat supposed to start at 6 or 7?

Jack> 6 but I had some tech probs.

Tom> Ok I was thinking I still didnt have the GMT/DST thing straight...

Jack> Yeah, you have it correctly. The link you suggested for GMT works great, just use the UPDATED one suggested by that site's webmaster: http://times.clari.net.au/

Tom> Yeah I saw a response from tantrabear, very insightful.

Jack> It's just that when I first discovered how to do this,

Tom> good. I will go strictly by what THEY say.

Jack> a very early intuition was that learning it COULD alter aggressiveness in males, including violent attitudes towards women,

Jack> since although as you say, not all women actually DO experience orgasm, let alone multiples, it is a fairly general attitude in our culture that men PERCEIVE

Jack> women as being ABLE to experience multiples, whereas it is their perception that men do NOT have this gift. I have seen this as a source of resentment of women. Then,

Jack> as I started hearing from men as they learned how to experience MMO, they many times would SPONTANEOUSLY mention that learning Male Multiple Orgasm had changed their attitudes towards women! They said

Tom> Yes I can see (and feel ) that myself.

Jack> things such as I discovered I don't need to rely on women for my pleasure. It's centered within ME and I can SHARE this with women. I don't fear them and resent them like I used to. etc.

Jack> Ah cool! Will you elaborate on how you personally see and feel that?

Tom> Well the traditional research always states just that. That men

Tom> are NOT CAPABLE of MO.

Tom> So sure Ive thought that sucked.

Jack> OK, so that's the FIRST piece. Pls continue.

Tom> and felt some resentment myself.

Jack> Resentment directed at?

Tom> God and also women.

Jack> Yeah, those were the two targets that I personally was aware of, and which seemed to be the targets identified by others.

Jack> What cultural effects do you feel might result from a man's carrying such feelings? Especially when it's a cumulative effect among MANY men?

Tom> Hmm tough question...

Tom> Well obviously ver bad for relationships.

Jack> Yeah! I agree with that one! I think this fact alone may be a significant factor in laying the groundwork for domestic violence, not to mention violence on a larger scale... social

Jack> scientists have noted that in domestic violence situations, the (usually) male offender triggers into violent behavior when he feels POWERLESS to change something. I'm sensing some kind of linkage.

Tom> Domestic violence... Interesting, I usually assumed it was mostly because of the woman not putting out.

Tom> and now of course I see the connection.

Jack>

Tom> Yes being powerless VERY STRESSFULL

Jack> I don't have a ready made way to prove this scientifically, but I too feel there is some connection between men's ability and _perceived_ ability to experience ALL OF THE PLEASURE THEY WANT, i.e.

Jack> to get their FILL, --or not. AND MY HUNCH THAT FOR __ MOST__ men, their sex life may tend to feel like something is missing, perhaps even when they have a sexy, willing partner. A NUMBER of

Jack> guys have talked about a certain let-down and emptiness they notice after ejaculation. They have noted the ABSENCE of these feelings when experiencing non-ejac multiple orgasms.

Tom> There was a study done in the UK I think, where a guy discovered that I think it was lifespan was related to where you were in a chain of command.

Jack> wow!

Jack> what were the findings?

Tom> The lower you were in the pecking order, the worse off you were

Tom> He found this accidentally looking at health of civil servants

Tom> the more upper management they were the healthier they were

Jack> surprise! Did this trend hold true clear to the top, or did those at the very top have a somewhat higher morbidity/mortality to those junior to them?

Tom> This paralled the (some monkey) population as the lower the status the more they were harrassed and less control they had as well as the less sex they could have.

Jack> Ah now that's interesting that the less sex even showed up in those studies!

Jack> Tom are you there still? I had a network failure.

Tom> Sorry! the window froze and I had to restart.

Jack> Yeah, me too! Anyway, it is noteworthy I think that sex was mentioned in those hierarchy/stress studies

Jack> ovr

Tom> YES I thought you might find that interesting

Jack> Did you see my comment about men reporting that ejaculorgasm can leave them feeling like there's gotta (oughtta) be more?

Tom> as far as being at the very top, they werent that specific. (very top is a bit relative I guess)

Tom> yes

Tom> I think part of that might be due to not only the fact that men dont MO but from what Ive read they dont often O that well!

Jack> Yeah! That's what I mean by guys reporting that feeling of emptiness, disappointment, depression even.

Jack> So if they're feeling empty or unfinished, etc. As TantraBear mentioned in his reply to your post, this need will seek other avenues for closure. What would these behaviors tend to look like?

Tom> eg that a regular orgasm can be alot better if one takes time (foreplay) etc. as well as many other techniques to expand orgasm.

Jack> Nevertheless for most, it seems that ejaculation tends to signal the end of the show. This is even modelled in porn films. The whole action traditionally has centered around the so-called

Jack> money shot, and that's the end of the scene or the film or whatever. Whew is this pattern ever re-inforced in our culture!

Tom> In answer to your question, I woulk think addictions of the self indulgent kind.

Jack> Very interesting point! I would inc lude sex addiction in that group.

Jack> It seems to me that other making up for behaviors would/could also be attempted. i.e., behaviors

Jack> attempting to restore the balance of power/pleasure or even to get the upper hand, in response to feeling inferior (vis a vis those multiorgasmic women AND in competition with other males).

Tom> Yep agree with your comments on the porn industry

Jack> As I mentioned in previous posts, in the old days, cultures celebrated sexuality and even female and male genitalia as divine gifts. There used to be

Jack> parades which included representations of the genitalia. Mardi Gras and Carnival (Brazil) are vestiges of these kinds of celebrations. To me,

Tom> Ive allways felt their films were cartoonish in nature anyway.

Jack> military parades, goose-stepping, saluting, etc. can all be viewed through this Freudian lense as having an underlying PHALLIC component. A lot of expensive and deadly dick-waving!

Jack> copy re: porn/cartoons... pls continue.

Tom> Hmm.. we were talking about being powerless and I would think military is mainly about power ...

Tom> I guess there very well could be a connection that way.

Jack> ...and how to have MORE power... like it's never ENOUGH. Curious that this comment is often made by women about men's sexual attitudes, etc.

Jack> A major benefit that Male Multiple Orgasm seems to deliver to men AND their partners is that at last men get to feel that they can have ENOUGH!

Tom> excellent

Jack> It'll be interesting to see a study that compares health and longevity between men who practice Male Multiple Orgasm and those who don't.

Jack> Maybe if we keep practicing MMO, we'll live long enough to see the results of such a study!

Tom>

Jack> Well, I need to get going pretty soon. I want to thank you for checking in to the chat, and also for your very thoughtful posts to the bbs.

Tom> If I recall the animals health in the study was ascertained from blood chemistry.

Tom> so in theory its possible.

Jack> OK, noted!

Tom> Your welcome, I will keep practising and reading the board

Jack> I'd like to know if you'd be willing to take a moment to summarize where you are personally with the Male Multiple Orgasm practice. Do you feel you are experiencing these kinds of orgasms? Any questions? Suggestions

Jack> for our brothers reading this? How can the web site be improved?

Tom> okay well its been slow...

Tom> it seems that the time has to be right/ conducive

Tom> like if I set aside a time to practise, I may feel nothing but

Tom> then one day ill just do a couple of vb/ks and wow feels great.

Jack> What is your body teaching you, with this pattern?

Tom> nothing I would call an orgasm though

Jack> What does the feels great actually feel like? Is it different that good feelings you experienced prior to learning the Key Sound?

Tom> feels great = horny/buzzing feeling in the pubuc bone / PC area

Tom> its different in the sense that its not located in the penis!

Jack> Do these feelings seem to be in response to your using the Key Sound? i.e. like an Echo Effect?

Jack> Copy re: different. So you're feeling this buzzing in more of your body than you used to?

Tom> But so far I seem to hit a plateau eg it doesnt get any more intese than what ive described

Jack> You seem to stay at this plateau, even if you continue to increase stimulation?

Tom> yes to the echo effect and there is a kind of constant level of arousal.

Jack> When you are in the constant level of arousal, how often are you using the Key Sound?

Tom> yes, stay at the same level even with more stimulation. the stimulation sometimes changes attention to the penis and old patterns

Tom> so im not sure if this is correct or not

Jack> Very good point! How often are you using the Key Sound when in this zone?

Tom> KS every few breaths

Tom> looking for the larger than average in breath etc.. like youve mentioned

Jack> Good! Are you still keying the use of the Key Sound to an exhale of a larger than average inbreath?

Jack> Ha! Notice the question I had already typed!

Tom> basically ive experienced most of what you talk about to some extent

Jack> You say looking for a larger than average inbreath. Are you actually NOTICING any larger than average inbreaths when in this zone?

Tom>

Tom> yes

Tom> often I notice them. but not allways

Jack> When you DO notice them, are you using that awareness to cue you to exhale that larger than average inbreath using the Key Sound?

Tom> One positive thing I was thinking today was that the excercises are now pleasureable enough to keep me interested. at the least!

Jack> Great!

Tom> Yup.

Jack> Yup to use of the Key Sound to exhale the larger than average inbreath?

Tom> thats correct

Jack> Well it seems like you're doing pretty much all of the right things to produce positive results! RE: the increase of stimulation: have you

Jack> explored/located any hot spots that increase arousal? The reason

Jack> I'm asking this, is are you exploring OTHER ways of increasing stimulation and arousal besides direct friction on your penis, which as you noted, can send you into an ejac pattern?

Tom> Yes the pc and spongy areas you mention are very sensitive and are the focus of the good feelings.

Jack> Ah great! I was going to ask you next about the spongy area. It really seems like you're doing your homework!

Tom> yeah like i said its pleasureable enough to keep me interested

Jack> When the good feelings happen, Do you actually notice a WAVE (or waves) of pleasure, or is it just a gradual increase?

Tom> Have been massaging the spongy area very effective

Jack> Great re: spongy effective!

Tom> sometimes there is a PULSE of pleasure...

Jack> Is it always a single pulse, or do you sometimes feel more than one... perhaps with some time in between?

Tom> Ive experemented with porn to increase arousal without penis contact and this was fairly effective in the begining

Tom> but isnt really necessary now, I guess im more familliar with how to feel my way back in.

Jack> Ah that's good!

Tom> As for more than 1 pulse...

Jack> So that Pulse feels like an autonomic response to your using the Key Sound? Yes re: )1 pls continue.

Tom> im not sure, maybe one per ks/vb or less ?

Tom> yes as a response to the ks and also contact with hot spots.

Jack> OK, great. So in response to the Key Sound, at least some of the time, you experience a spontaneous response in your body... and it's pleasurable. This is what

Tom> sometimes contact with hot spots cause 1 or 2 mini contractions.

Jack> I refer to as a proto-orgasm. That is it's like a mini-gasm. It's a wave or pulse, accompanying pleasure.

Tom> not sure if this is related or not

Jack> Do you see how the difference between this phenomenon and orgasm is at least to some extent a matter of degree? of intensity?

Jack> BTW I think the contractions ARE related to the hot spots, etc.

Jack> I would say that you ARE

Jack> experiencing non-ejaculatory orgasms or... proto-orgasms if you will, but they are just not YET as

Tom> yes i can see the relationship but not nearly as intense

Jack> intense as what you've experienced with ejac, or what you might expect.

Jack> Ah great that you see the relationship! So then it

Jack> really can be a shift from I'm not experiencing orgasms yet to: I AM beginning to experience these kinds of orgasms, now it's a question of learning how to increase the INTENSITY.,0

Tom> ok thats very helpfull!

Tom> and goog news!

Jack>

Jack> I think that's an important shift in the way you are viewing your experience.

Tom> Well I will continue to experiment and keep you updated.

Jack> AN IMPORTANT SHIFT FOR ALL WHO PRACTICE THIS TO BE AWARE OF...

Tom> yeah I see what you mean, I now know what to focus on.

Jack> ...that shift from I keep practicing but I'm not getting any orgasms yet to I _am_ starting to feel mini-gasms... this practice is working, my body IS _beginning_ to

Jack> awaken to this new energy. Now it's a matter of learning how to open MORE to the energy.

Jack> Copy re: focus. Also another tip is that when you feel those pulses and those contractions, use a Key Sound on the very next breath, or even while they are happening... let me know what happens. OK?

Tom> OK will do.

Jack> Great! Hey brother, thanks very much for your sharing tonight, eh?

Tom> Thank you for your time. you have been endlessly helpfull.

Jack> You're very welcome. See you soon on the bulletin board, and back here in the Chat Room.

Jack> (((((TOM)))))

Tom> Absolutely! Bye for now...

Tom> (((((JACK)))))

Jack> Til next time [Jack leaves the Chat Room]