• Jesse and Jack discuss Jack's hypothesis of "Ejaculation Compulsion" - the possible negative personal societal effects of NOT knowing how to separate orgasm from ejaculation to enable men and their partners to have ALL of the orgasms they want and need.

Jack> JESSE!!!

Jack> Paged another user

Jesse> there you are! good morning jack

Jack> All RIIIIIIIIGHT!

Jack> Good morning to you too!

Jesse> i guess you took a pee break or something

Jack> you guessed it! (blush)

Jesse> did chadt or whatever from italy check in?

Jack> TAC... nope he didn't

Jack> He had requested this time slot, and I emailed him, but he never confirmed.

Jack> Tantrabear checked in, but got some confusion about the times

Jack> I missed him by only ten minutes. He's in the UK.

Jack> He logged in at 10 min b4 9am my time... i.e. just ten min b4 1600GMT

Jack> Wow there sure are some great posts showing up on the board, aren't there?

Jack> I've responded to about half of the latest ones. Still trying to catch up... ovr

Jesse> oh well ... IM here.... btw.. I was up at Wildwood for aweek... Colin has your tapes for sale

Jesse> My screen tells me i have 36 new messages.. havent checked in in awhile.

Jesse> ivr

Jesse> rather:OVR

Jack> Wow, what a great experience for you to give yourself at Wildwood. I'm glad Colin is offering my tapes!

Jack> Did you get a chance to practice Male Multiple Orgasm at Wildwood?

Jack> [other readers: Wildwood is a weeklong erotic workshop offered by the Body Electric School]

Jesse> Yes, quite a bit. ovr

Jesse> Yes, quite a bit. ovr

Jack> Cool. Body electric (aka bawdy electric ) is quite transformative, isn't it?

Jesse> It was a pretty awesome week for me of erotic energy and processing

Jesse> we were( I think, 42 men and I laughed and cried like I haven't done in years. ovr

Jack> That's great! I have a special love for the men who teach, and for those who attend.

Jack> Anything in particular you'd like to chat about this morning?

Jesse> Anyone reading here should know that B.E. has a great web site at www.bodyelectric.org... check it out.

Jack> You read my mind, I was looking up the URL!

Jack> That's http://www.bodyelectric.org

Jack> Notice how when you put in the http:// that makes the URL a live link!

Jesse> Hey, cool! blue hypertext!...Not really, Jack.. Unfortunately not having checked my mail, I'm not able to comment on the latest stuff.. mainly wanted to say hello. ovr

Jack> Anything in particular you'd like to chat about this morning?

Jack> OK, from what I've had a chance to review so far,

Jack> on the

Jack> WebBoard, there are some EXCELLENT posts in the Field Research Conference by Tantrabear and Jhill, among others.

Jack> I notice there are some posts added to my new conference,

Jack> Ejaculation Compulsion

Jack> Are you hip to what I mean by that expression?

Jesse> I'm finding I like the boards the best.. I'm still suffering long delays with this chat. Does everyone's buffer freeze, ie stop accepting type when another person is sending? or is it just me? And.. I

Jesse> can't wait to read what the Bear wrote... about the ejaculation compulsion..I have that sometimes! ovr

Jack> Pls describe what you mean!

Jesse> Well, since I havent read your posting on the subject, Im not sure what you mean by it.. but sometimes I just can't resist going for the big fast bon bon.

Jack> Yeah, that's understandable,

Jack> what I am describing in the Ejac Compulsion conference is that

Jack> I believe in our culture, the fact that most men believe that orgasm and ejaculation are the same event sets the stage for men

Jack> to not be able to get enough...

Jack> What they THINK they are not getting enough of is ejaculation, but IMHO what they're/we're not getting enough of

Jack> is the BIOENERGETIC event of orgasm AS DISTINCT from ejaculation, the prostatic event.

Jack> This leads to resentment towards women and a generally nasty attitude (g); I believe it also leads to a deeper compulsion for some men to

Jack> become obsessed with guns, and with creating/building every BIGGER THINGS THAT SHOOT!

Jesse> Even though I know that just stopping short of that will allow me to sorta pick up where I left off the next time I self pleasure.. IMHO? over.

Jack> IMHO = In My Humble Opinion... that's a chat abbrev from the old days.

Jack> Your comments about my larger definition of Ejac Compulsion?

Jesse> You call it a compulsion to ejaculate?.. or a misunderstanding)) why compulsion?

Jack> What I mean by that is

Jack> that: first, I assume that as humans we have a certain appetite for ORGASM, the BIOENERGETIC event.

Jack> That is, I assume that we have a natural need to experience a certain amount of orgasm to be healthy physically and emotionally, but

Jack> when orgasm is mistakenly linked more or less exclusively as it has been in our culture, then the number of orgasms and their intensity

Jack> is artificially restricted... we don't get our fill. Does that make sense?

Jesse> I see what you mean by an obsession that men have with getting enuf.. and that generally is measured in our society by semenal output, ie ejaculations. ovr. ovr.

Jack> one moment

Jesse> I am of the opinion that most men dont know how to get their bodies thrilled unless it is connected with ejaculation. There is also lots of stuff about it's having to be fairly quick, or we will bore

Jack> thanks... I'm back, had several interruptions... continuing...

Jack> pls continue... I agree!

Jesse> our partner and they will leave us mid-stream.. so we train ourselves to hurry up so as not to lose our partner's interest.

Jack> That last part about boredom is a bit of surprise to me! Yes, I agree that

Jesse> This certainly doesn't promote long slow exploration of the cords below the penis, for example.

Jack> most men in our culture don't know how to get thrilled without ejaculation. That's why not only is Male Multiple Orgasm revolutionary, but even that basic piece of information that:

Jack> Hey guys, guess what? Orgasm and ejaculation are NOT THE SAME THING!

Jack> Yep, it certainly does NOT promote long slow exploration.

Jack> What's really surprising to me in your comments is that the guy is feeling a need to hurry up

Jack> so he doesn't lose the woman's interest. Most women I've heard discussing sex with men feel that men go TOO FAST!!!

Jack> r

Jack> ovr

Jesse> Im a bit thrown by your use of the word compulsion.. i can understand obsession or fixation.. And yes, about men going too fast.. we know why, dont we? Slowing down means feeling a hell of a lot

Jack> Yes, we DO know why! Slowing down DOES mean feeling more. THIS is what I hear women WANT from men (or male partners in the instance of gay relationships)... they are looking for the FEELING connectio

Jesse> A quickie gives you a certain body rush.. spending more time gives a bigger rush and a hell of a lot of feeling stuff. ovr

Jack> I actually think that there is an element of PROJECTION when a guy says I'm hurrying up so I don't bore the woman. My sense is that's a projection making the hurryup mode HER fault, rather than as

Jack> you suggest, dealing with the man's fear of FEELING MORE. This too

Jack> though is a result of the man's cultural conditioning. So I want to clarify that I'm not trying to BLAME the guy. I'm inviting him though to

Jack> take responsibility for his feelings, including the FEAR OF FEELING, plus all of the other performance anxiety and other crap we get loaded up

Jesse> It could even bring one to tears to slow down considerably.

Jack> with in this culture. The hurry hurry I think goes back for most of us to the environment we were raised in which told us that self-pleasure is a sin, unhealthy, etc. etc.

Jack> This is a major mind ****. Joycelyn Elders lost her job when she was brave enough to say that self-pleasure for adolescents is a

Jack> natural thing. The fundies really jumped all over her ass and Clinton didn't have the stones to back her up. Too bad, but it's illustrative.

Jack> So, with all of that guilt and doublethink laid on us guys about self-pleasure, we gotta do it quickly in the bathroom, or under the covers, etc. just to get relief.

Jack> What a tragic stage this sets for our later sex life! Folks rail about moral decay etc. and the high divorce rate. I think a big chunk of the responsibility lies right on this issue.

Jack> If a guy has been taught to believe that feeling sexual pleasure, I mean REALLY FEELING it, within himself is sick and evil, this guy is gonna have probs bonding with a lover later in life!

Jack> What I mean by compulsion is that we have a built in drive to experience ORGASM. If it's thwarted or artificially limited because it's linked to ejaculation

Jack> through lack of information, then the guy in effect feels an orgasmic deficit. This leads to the cultural image that guys are always horny. That's joked about, but it also becomes serious when it

Jack> results in sexual harassment, pedophilia, domestic violence, etc. Why? Because the guy DOES tend to project the blame onto (for heteros) the woman. So men tend

Jack> to resent women's ability to be sexual. To be multi-orgasmic. Something like: It's not fair that women get to have all they want!

Jesse> yes.. so true, and quietly.. no roaring, no Tarzan.. no letting the body move the way it wants to.. no touching ones own body.. the nipples for example

Jack> This definitely IMHO leads to domestic violence and even violence on a grander scale. There is a direct linkage in cultures between degree of sexual repression and misinformation of this kind and

Jack> degree of militarism and violence.

Jack> Yes VERY true about BEING QUIET!!! No letting the body move. BE IN CONTROL! Gotta HOLD BACK to TIME IT JUST RIGHT, etc. Then often guilt when ultimately

Jack> the guy has to give in to the overwhelming push toward orgasm (usually linked to ejaculation, which is taken as a symbol for the end of the sexual encounter).

Jack> RE: compulsion. So a guy develops this orgasmic deficit. A BIOENERGETIC deficit. Our bodies are DESIGNED TO FEEL PLEASURE, and more often and WAY more thoroughly than most of us traditionally

Jack> experience with ejaculorgasm. Where the COMPULSION comes in is that this HUNGER has to go SOMEwhere. It has to be EXPRESSED somehow. What are the avenues in our culture?

Jack> Violence. Right down to the OBVIOUS phallic nature of firearms and weaponry all the way up to the mighty ICBM's. Bigger dicks projecting bigger payloads over greater distances...

Jack> tragically delivering DEATH rather than life and love. [end of rant'

Jack> Does compulsion in that context make sense to you?