• In Session One of the chat this week, Mark from San Francisco asks Jack to compare his methods with those of other popular authors, and...He also asks Jack to summarize how he discovered this powerful process!
• Next they discuss the social implications of being able to move beyond the artificial limitation of male orgasm when it's exclusively linked to ejaculation
• These implications focus on healing unconscious resentment towards women as "getting to have all of the orgasms they want, while men 'can not,'" and may extend beyond that to global violence as well!
  Mark then describes where he's stuck in his own practice of Male Multiple Orgasm and Jack makes some suggestions which Mark finds helpful!
• In Session Two, Drew from Michigan returns and expresses gratitude for Jack's email response to the e-letter Drew sent this week
  He then goes on to focus on the issue of emotional vulnerability and to discuss a particular furball in this context, namely, the more pleasure he feels, the more acutely he feels the loss of not having an intimate partner at this time
• Drew and Jack brainstorm about ways to trance-end this all-too-common furball
• Jack suggests using Charles Whitfield's "share/check/share" model as a way of taking care of oneself as you begin opening emotionally to someone
• Drew identifies several insights and action steps to apply in the coming week

SESSION ONE

jack> Hello!!!

Mark> Am I here? Did it work?

jack> Yeah man!

jack> Where shall we begin?

Mark>Ok.. First question.. Tell me a little of how you arrived at this Male Multiple Orgasm idea-

jack> I had read quite a bit of the other literature on non-ejaculatory male multiple orgasms,

jack> and even worked with some of their methods a little. But nothing clicked. Intuitively, especially the "squeeze" and other holdback methods just didn't seem to be "natural".

jack> I then developed a working hypothesis that the information on how to have non-ejac multi's with NO holding back is coded into our DNA. That as species we USED to know how to do this...

Mark> And you found it again! right on. so, okay, you came up with this theory. Then what- I mean all these other people

Mark> came up with methods, and they didn't work for you- how did you invent the Jack Johnston Method?

jack> Once I adopted the working hypothesis that the how to is already wired in, it became a process of peeling back the layers of enculturation that "tell us" what male orgasm is or isn't and what men are or are not capable of. Also,

jack> It of course was essential in the beginning to recognize that orgasm and ejaculation are NOT the same event! I'm certainly not the first to realize that, by ANY means! But it's a cornerstone.

Mark> Absolutely- well I know that I've had random "energy" orgasms, mainly from anal intercourse, but that was random-

Mark> and since I've gotten hold of your materials, I've been working slowly with building energy more consciously-

jack> Cool!

jack> What do you mean by an "energy" orgasm?

Mark> Energy orgasm- just waves of energy that made me shiver involuntarily while getting fucked, a few times my cock was completely limp, other times hard. it lasted less than a minute, and spread down my legs and up my chest.

Mark> What I was wondering, was, did you just "stumble" upon the sound- or before that, the need to move those abdominal muscles in that way?

jack> From the time I began the quest, the process took about nine months. Perfect, eh? :-) Two very important

jack> factors played a key role. First, my own androgyny. My female aspect is very strong, and "she" has served as a guide! Also, a number of years ago I developed a powerful

jack> way of working with dreams shamanically, and this put me in touch with what I call our "Id Entities" that is all of those subpersonalities we ALL walk around with! At any rate, a while earlier

jack> an Id Entity or subpersonality popped up in my psyche, called "Yumm" who... and now I'm going to launch into a metaphor... very unscientific... pls consider it allegory if necessary...

jack> ...who "remembered" having lived as a priest/healer/consort in the Temples of Innana in Ancient Sumeria. Those people used sexuality as the basis of their healing and spiritual practices, so I figured Yumm oughta know "how"! I then began "asking" these sub

jack> personalities, Yumm, and ... Mark, meet Jane... (my primary female aspect) to teach me and to guide me to REMEMBER how to have this experience. I say

jack> "remember" because since I have assumed that the info is in the DNA, then it becomes a process of trance ending internalized oppression and cultural BS about male pleasure and orgasm, and then... REMEMBER! As a result, I would do a tantric meditation where

jack> I would ask these "Guides", AND EVERY CELL IN MY BODY to help me remember and OPEN to this experience. I assumed that virtually EVERY cell in my body would like to feel this energy too, so I consciously enlisted cellular consciousness as allies as well!

Mark> That's an excellent story- my lover is a hypnotherapist and does past-life regressions, so I take it for real.

Mark> So I guess the next thing I'd like to hear about is how you connect it into a larger world view- feminism and such- I've heard you say a bit on this before.

jack> OK, here goes. This is _my_ view. That said, I'll forgo further "qualifiers"... I believe that in MANY of the world's cultures, where it's more or less

jack> "common knowledge" that women are physically capable of having multiples, it's also usually believed that men cannot! "Multiples" for men usually means "multiple ejaculations" so lots of joking goes on to dispel the anxiety all of that brings up.

jack> My intuition has been whispering to me that many men perceive this apparent "orgasmic imbalance" and feel cheated, despairing, AND RESENTFUL TOWARDS WOMEN GENERALLY. Because "women" "generally" can have multiples and a man "can't". Well,

jack> this resentment starts festering in the guy... It shows up as fights over the dirty dishes, or domestic violence and...

jack> global violence! (Still "my opinion"): I believe that in the "old days" the information on how to have multiples like this was passed to boys as part of the Men's Mysteries communicated

jack> at pubertal rites of passage. But our culture sends us very different messages! It teaches us wrongly that orgasm and ejaculation are the same thing, therefore, men's orgasmic experience is VERY limited...by nature ("The Bitch"!)....

jack> NOT!

jack> The result is often the development of a syndrome I call "ejaculation compulsion". A hypothetical male such as the guy I'm describing who is victim to the cultural BS experiences

jack> pain as a result of not having an adequate orgasmic experience, "not enough orgasms", because by our culture orgasm has been ARTIFICIALLY linked to ejaculation!

jack> But the average guy's subconscious may tend to translate this into

jack> "not enough ejaculations" since he has been taught to treat org and ejac as synonymous. So then at some level he may feel COMPELLED to try

jack> to make up this "orgasmic deficit". That of course implies that it is generally healthy to experience a LOT more orgasm in one's life than "most men" do! So he's got

jack> this deficit and his subconscious sets about trying to remedy this. We then wind up with a lot of guys doing all kinds of things to "get off more" to try to fix this. One thing guys do to try to fix this, it seems, is to build ever bigger things THAT SHOOT

jack> Check out a military parade. Steel dicks on parade!!! War is a global circle-jerk and ritual blood-letting. It's a very warped form of phallic worship.

jack> In the old days, and fortunately now for some of us brave souls in the new days, folks would HONESTLY celebrate the beauty of the healthy ("holy") phallus (as well as the "holy" vulva) at various times of the year, through parades, feasting, etc.

jack> when our culture suppressed this, that primal energy finds its way out in the form of building ever bigger more impressive "penises" that shoot ever

jack> larger "payloads" over greater distances. The warp is that these "payloads" then deliver death, not life!

Mark> It's very inspiring to see someone working sexuality and conencting it to other issues. It's real clear to me how our

Mark> sexuality and spirituality and emotions and mind all need to be in the mix, and especially on how men are feminist by taking

Mark> responsibility for ourselves and not for others at all. It also seems really obvious to me that

Mark> many of the dramas played out on our green mother are the result of personal baggage carried by "world leaders"- stuff that is better worked outi n therapy or ritual rather than the battlefield or the marketplace

Mark> so I applaud you on making the connections-

Mark> one of the more inspiritional images and something that was a turning point in MY sexuality, was to hear Starhawk talk about male sexuality in terms of

Mark> the Jack In the Green, who rose and grew in the springtime, full of flowers and the sap of life!

jack> Yes! Starhawk played a critical role in my

jack> understanding of this. In "The Spiral Dance" she wrote a wonderful passage (found as a footnote to page 111 in her Revised Edition) about the worship of the perpetually frozen phallus, versus the natural phallus which is soft more often than hard,

jack> and which, just as women's monthly cycles reflect a cycle in nature (of the Moon), the rise and fall of the phallus mirrors the cycle of all life, to rise, blossom, wilt (die), and rise again. The themes of the resurrecting gods reprise this celebration

jack> from ancient times IMHO. I also wanted to say that I believe militaristic cultures

jack> have a HUGE investment in KEEPING men in that "orgasmically deficient" state. They make GREAT warriors. The sexual/violence connection is also played out in that throughout the history we have access to, the women of the conquered nation were considered part of the spoils of war, so rape and abduction have largely been sanctioned, at least tacitly. And pilots and others have (a few) been able to be honest enough to cop to the SEXUAL rush they feel flying those killing machines and really "nailing" a

jack> "target". Therefore, I believe that for men AND THEIR PARTNERS REGARDLESS OF GENDER to learn how to access multi-orgasmic energy in this way can effect social and political change at a _very_ fundamental level, and perhaps reduce global violence as well.

Mark> Beautiful- and makes me feel better about my own cock, as well as any I might take into various of my orifices.

Mark> My lover Holly also does this work and is in fact writing about her women's sexual healing class in this issue also- the two will really dovetail.

jack> RE: that assumption that men tend to develop and carry resentment towards "all" women because of that orgasmic imbalance... a number of men who have learned Male Multiple Orgasm have

jack> SPONTANEOUSLY without my prompting _at all_ reported to me that they became aware of a NOTICEABLE change in their attitudes toward women, and that as they began to work with MMO, they had released resentment and feelings of inadequacy, etc. that they didn't even realize they had!

Mark> I know that what helped me let go of some of the resentment that had been building in me

Mark> from living almost entirely in a female-feminist community was to check out radical faery stuff- find men who are claiming their power without being destructive.

Mark> So what I'd like to hear about is how have people reacted to all this stuff- I've seen your materials and I've been to your workshop at Good Vibes- is all of this coming up- are men making

Mark> the connections we've been talking about and having amazing orgasms at the same time?

jack> Some are! There are some cool statements in the chat transcripts on my Web site to this effect. Allen from Seattle once (or more!) commented that he could see how this info

jack> would have dramatic _social_ implications. Fred and several others have as well. It's not HUGE numbers yet mind you... I've only been teaching this for a short while, and I'm still learning HOW to teach it. Altho I think I'm startin to get the hang of that

Mark> You had excellent presence at the workshop. With the method, I've found it difficult to

Mark> resist coming in the conventional way- I often find myself masturbating compulsively rather than intentionally. Other than pure will, do you have any suggestions as to how to break the cycle and instill more intentionality into the practice?

jack> R.D.'s story at the end of the Audio Seminar I think gives some very important clues. He describes how he got that strong physical cue to "go for" ejaculation and had to make a

jack> conscious decision to put the energy into the Key Sound. This also is why I've

jack> created the Web site (now with over 500 pages of additional transcripts and Q/A on this topic - transcripts accessible by an annotated keyword-searchable index in the Male Multiple Orgasm Annotated Chat Archives Index), and why

jack> I offer these free "coaching chats" each week on the Internet. Because here we can get into the details of one's particular practice. A couple of things come to mind in response to your statement.

jack> First, I urge you to take a look at the September 4 1996 transcript when you get a chance because we focussed on this very issue in great detail. The "Key Sound" I teach

jack> as part of my method is not the ONLY way to have these experiences, but it is the starting point, the trigger, the... well, the KEY to unlocking the physiological "memory" of how to LET this (NOT _"MAKE"_ this) happen.

jack> The important thing is to learn how to be able to continue (as you're learning how to awaken the memories) to make a COMPLETE Key Sound, both the first AND the second part, at higher levels of

jack> arousal. What happens is, you or "one" may tend to reach a certain temporary limit to how much arousal you can "stand" b4 having to "go for" ejac. That's THE crucial

jack> zone! When the energy is built up that much, if you can make a COMPLETE and _truly resonant_ Key Sound to express that pent up energy, the responses you get BACK from

jack> your physical self (what I call the "Echo" feelings since the Echo back in response to your use of the Key Sound) tend to increase in intensity. So... to what levels of arousal were you still able to make a COMPLETE Key Sound during the experience you described?

Mark> What you say makes a lot of sense- and feels right too! I'm

Mark> not sure how to describe "levels of arousal" I mean- I had been able to make sounds and keep breathing right up to ejaculation, and it really increases

Mark> the heighth and length of the orgasm- I guess what I have been doing is to decide to go ahead and ejaculate rather than let my energy subside

Mark> temporarily to build it up again, that or I misjudge where the edge of the orgasm is and I fall over and come without really meaning to.

jack> You sed you're able to "make sounds"... _any_ sounds or _specifically_ the KEY SOUND as I teach it?

jack> What you're describing suggests that you are attempting to use a holding back strategy... Male Multiple Orgasm is _not_ a holding back method!

Mark> Close to the key sound- it doesn't always resonate as much. I'm not holding back, in terms of pinching muscles, I'm just stroking my cock- if I'm trying it while masturbating instead

Mark> of just trying the sound out as we did in the workshop, which I've also tried some more, and if I'm stroking my cock then

Mark> what I'm doing is to not give myself so much pleasure that I come by ejaculating, but to stop stroking or touching myself at key points to let the energy subside for

Mark> awhile, and redirect it into my chest. does that sound like what you are getting at, or do you have suggestions?

jack> That is not what I'm getting at. _The fact that the Key Sound is NOT resonating for you is the flag!_ The protocol I teach is basically this: Learn how to make the Key Sound with NO erotic stimulation. Practice this until it really does begin to "resonate",

jack> i.e. until you tend to say "yeah, THAT'S more like it!" Of course, you should still be using 3 or 4 REGULAR breaths between each time you use the Key Sound. ONLY AFTER

jack> you get the Key Sound "grooved in" in this way, with NO stim, then begin to add _some_ stim, and CONTINUE to use the Key Sound. The CRITICAL focal point is on

jack> _how resonant_ that Key Sound is feeling... if it starts to feel not so resonant then back off on the stim ONLY ENOUGH to where the Key Sound once again DOES feel resonant. That's

jack> you're "boundary" more or less. The goal then is to GENTLY move that boundary to higher levels of arousal. AS __SOON__ as the Key Sound is not resonating back off a little until

jack> it does! Sometimes people say "well I'm into using this OTHER sound instead of the Key Sound..." etc. fine, but I can't help you then! Of course, the Echo sounds, the ones you spontaneously make IN RESPONSE to to using the Key Sound, may vary, _but they usually still contain that rolling quality in the middle that is characteristic of the Key Sound. The _specific_ Key Sound I model makes your lower belly muscles move in a SPECIFIC way

jack> when this sound is done correctly. It's that muscle movement that mimics the movements that will happen when the non-ejac orgasmic waves or pulses ripple thru. So that

jack> muscle movement is "cuing" your body to allow the erotic energy to flow thru you in a way that is "handled" by that kind of muscle movement. SOMEHOW, that releases tremendous

jack> amounts of orgasmic energy but most of the time, no ejac. Often, not even an erection!

Mark> Okay. I guess I was cheating, inasfar as that is possible. I guess the temptation to try it while masturbating was pretty high, and it did get SOME results. I'll try what you are saying- what you said on the tape.. etc..

Mark> This has been extremely interesting and useful interview . Thank you very much. I think that

jack> thanks :-)

Mark> interesting and useful interview- as well as personally beneficial to my own practice. Thank you so much for your time. I think I"m going to get going- if you have any last comments now, go for it-

jack> Ok Great! I'd just like to say that I don't think you were "cheating"! It's absolutely the most common and natural thing to happen as you're learning this. It's also a REALLY GOOD idea to just give yourself SOME sessions where it's not "doing as Jack said"

jack> but freely experimenting, and just havin fun!!! When focusing on The Practice tho, the thing to keep in mind is that _THE_ FOCUS of the meditation is not how aroused you are but rather, THE RESONANCE OF THE KEY SOUND. The PIVOTAL goal is to _keep that sound resonant_

jack> as you increase the stimulation, backing off only as needed to maintain the resonance or to recapture it. Does that make sense?

Mark> Yes it absolutely makes sense!- the cheating comment was tongue-in-cheek. I really love how supportive and appreciative and insightful you are. we'll be in touch!

jack> ACTION givin Mark BIG cyberhug!

jack> Please let me know how your field research goes!

Mark> ACTION Mark squeezing back

jack> Thanks!!!

jack> This was great! Hope you'll join our weekly chat again from time to time, OH

jack> and PLEASE take a look at last week's chat. It speaks to your questions...

Mark> I'll check out last weeks chats- no problem- t'anks! peace, love, and orgasms (the cosmic variety)

jack> copy , thanks. Have a wonderful day. I'll be back in San Francisco in December. C.U. then!


CHAT OF WEDNESDAY SEPTEMBER 11 1996 SESSION TWO

Drew> HI there!

jack> Hi Brother!!!

Drew> How are ya this evening?

jack> Very well thanks! Did you get my reply to your wonderful letter, and a copy of today's earlier chat?

Drew> Yes I did...

Drew> I haven't had a chance to review the chat session from

Drew> earlier today yet, I would like to thank you for the e-mail reply though...

jack> :-)

Drew> I was touched by some of the things in it... and, as ususal, it had some marvellous insight and suggestions,

jack> May ask what?

Drew> Well, the thing that touched me the most was... the part about your appreciation of my vulnerability, and

Drew> insights and comments during the chats. Also, the reference to your partners comment (especially that, I guess).

jack> Coool! Would it be ok to post it?

Drew> Oh sure, by all means!

jack> Great, thanks very much, courageous pioneer!

jack> Shall we discuss "survival value" of non-ejaculatory Male Multiple Orgasms... or is there something

jack> else you'd like to discuss first, followed by that discussion?

Drew> Since we're talking about vulnerability...

jack> yes!

Drew> it seems that that is something I constantly need to be working on...

Drew> I viewed a video earlier this week about Tantric sexual pratice...

Drew> and got rather upset in the process.

jack> What happened?

Drew> This was not to do with the usual frustration I feel about being without a partner i.e. solo sex...

Drew> the video depicted couples in deeply committed, intmate relationships...

Drew> I thought, WOW! I really want to create something like that for myself...

Drew> I believe it would be the first relationship of that kind for me

Drew> I realize that it takes a great deal of work in an ongoing way

Drew> to maintain such relationship, yet I truly believe it would be well worth it.

jack> I think it would be well worth it and I think _you_ are well worth it!

Drew> That's kind of a furrball for me....

Drew> I have worked on myself to the point where I have a pretty

Drew> good self-image, yet when it comes to relationships, things seem to fall apart before they even get going...

Drew> It's difficult to put into words, it's something like...

Drew> "women don't find me attractive, or even want me around"...

Drew> I don't know where this comes from, yet it keeps playing out in my life, despite evidence to the contrary i.e. positive feedback from women.

jack> how often has this happened?

Drew> What specifically?

jack> relationships that seem to fall apart b4 they get going...

Drew> Only about two or three times...

Drew> I have lots of friends who are girls, yet no "girlfriend",

jack> It seems that you're basing the first statement "things (implied "always"?) seem to fall apart before they even get going" as the way you GENERALLY define your "situation" vis a vis finding an intimate partner

jack> on a total life experience of 3 occurrences. Did I get that right?

Drew> Not exactly. I realize that my statement is a generalization, yet it is based on a lot of experiences...

jack> oh...

Drew> the two or three I was referring to, were times I've actually

Drew> been involved in a longer term relationship.

jack> Oh I thot you said "b4 they got going" so I didn't get that they were longer term...

Drew> A typo on my part I guess. The real problem for me these days

Drew> seems to be taking a "risk", going for it.

Drew> It's the getting closer that seems so scary...

jack> Are you getting hung up in a loop about wanting the next girlfriend or lover to be THE one?

Drew> the thing I want most of all, is what I seem most afraid of.

jack> that sure makes sense to me: Ohmigod what if I don't get it??? OhmiGAWD what if I DO???

Drew> Re: THE ONE, I'm sure that's a part of it. Also, there's something about getting really close...

Drew> how do I deal with not being close? Whether that's the end of the relationship, or just a momentary disagreement.

Drew> I've just realized what a double bind the statement I made above is!!!!

jack> !!! which one?

Drew> AH! The "the thing I want most of all, is what I seem most afraid of."

jack> So what do you make of that?

Drew> Good question. It's kinda like, I've realized I'm in a maze, yet I have no idea how I'll get myself out of it.

jack> Are you saying that as you feel you and a potential partner getting closer, THEN you start to get scared?

Drew> Oh yeah! BIG time! And I'm not usually pro-active in attempting to get closer.

jack> Let's see, am I hearing this correctly? You're not pro-active in getting closer, but nevertheless it sounds like you have _started_ to in some of these relationships, but

jack> then the anxiety starts to build, and then... "things fall apart" Am I getting that right?

Drew> In a nutshell, yes.

jack> That's incredible!

jack> What I'm hearing you say is that in these relationships, you _do_ get _somewhat_ closer, but then the anxiety becomes debilitating. The point I'm trying to make here is that you ARE getting SOMEwhat closer b4 this pattern kicks in bigtime...

Drew> Yes, I suppose the personal work I've been doing has helped me to make some progress in this area. I only seem to let someone in so far, then a wall goes up, it's like it doesn;t feel safe, and I shut down and withdraw.

jack> Yep, furball pattern! Just like in Male Multiple Orgasm practice... when the pleasure starts to increase in amplitude, POP goes the emotional breaker! Two thots about the anxiety:

jack> First, anxiety or fear is a survival mechanism. Sometimes it's distorted and defeating. But sometimes it's a message from your deeper self that "something's wrong with

jack> this (particular relationship) picture." That is, in some of these instances, maybe your deeper self was SAVING you from a greater disaster! Another kind of anxiety,

jack> as my teacher Robt Goulding MD used to say, is "excitement I won't let myself feel." So NOW when you get with someone you like and you start to feel some intimacy building, and

jack> that anxiety starts to rise, you might experiment with using the Key Sound with that feeling! Gently of course... and I'm

jack> talking here about using it with no erotic stim.

Drew> I like the anxiety/excitement idea....

Drew> How does one discern between the two types of anxiety.

jack> If in fact some of it IS excitement you're not letting yourself feel, then using the Key Sound may produce some surprising effects!!! RE: your last ?

jack> One way might be that if you use the Key Sound with this "anxious" feeling and it stays stuck, then maybe it's worth a deeper look.

jack> Another thot just popped in...

jack> When I think of my relationship with Jackie, and how precious it is to me, I too sometimes feel great anxiety! It's a fear of loss rather than her rejecting _me_. But just knowing

jack> that life is NOT predictable and we don't now how things can change, illness, death, external events, etc. etc., some people call this "feeling the love wound"... there's a way in which THIS kind of anxiety

jack> makes the love that IS being shared all the more precious and poignant.

Drew> I think you've just about hit the nail in the head.... That's where the vulnerability comes in....

Drew> It's being vulnerable to the experience of LIFE, whatever that may be, in any given moment.

jack> And to be able to communicate that to a partner who can share that vulnerability and sense of precious love each day with you!

jack> Couple more thots about vulnerability...

jack> In the stmt you made about vulnerable to the exp of LIFE... say the sentence once that way and get the feeling in your body what that's like...

jack> then substitute the word "open" for "vulnerable" and tune into how THAT feels...

Drew> It does shift it a little.....I've also heard it described it as stepping into the void....

jack> yeah! the Fertile Void!!!

jack> Also known as "The Plenum"...

Drew> My present situation is understandable, when I review my personal history....

Drew> I learned at a very early age that being "open' was not safe... and it's a real challenge to 'unlearn' this pattern, particularly when I can only imagine the benefits of moving through the fear.

jack> Well, sometimes it's NOT safe to be open!!! Charles Whitfield, M.D., who wrote a wonderful book called Healing the Child Within, offered a model that's been VERY helpful to me in this area. He calls it "share/check/share"... this is a way

jack> of taking care of yourself in world that has many OTHER people trying to recover from THEIR wounds! What he suggests is that when you want to get closer, share a LITTLE bit more, and see how it's received. Tune in to the other's response. If you

jack> get a red light, then stop!!! DONT open any more!!! On the other hand, if you get a green light, then share a LITTLE bit more AND THEN CHECK AGAIN to see how this is being received! The idea is to always have this "program" running in the "background" so that you're not UNDULY exposing your more vulnerable self NOR overwhelming the OTHER person's ability to handle more intimacy at that moment. It's made _me_ feel a LOT safer in getting closer to people, and has saved my skin more than once, when more sharing was NOT a good idea!!!

Drew> I read that book myself, although it's been a while ago... the S/C/S model gets back to the question of discernment again.

Drew> It seem s like a better strategy than the one I've been using, I'l have to check it out with some of my 'friends'.

jack> Cool, let me know how it goes!!!

jack> You know, there's one advantage you have that a LOT of single guys who are sexually oriented towards women DONT!

jack> That's the treasure of having a number of good women friends! Isn't that right?

Drew> Yes, and I do appreciate them.

jack> They seem to me to be a tremendous resource in a number of ways! First, they can give you some real honest information about how some women experience you. It's also

jack> often the case that women tend to have a number of female friends. A lot of people meet their lovers/ life partners through friends! It's how I met Jackie! Also, when a

jack> woman starts to check you out as a possible partner, if she's secure in who she is, she will probably tend to feel REASSURED that you have friends who are female! It lets her know you have some idea of how to relate to women as people and not just as objects of desire.

Drew> Yes, I agree, although I still seem to have a lot to learn in that department, I can use all the practice I can get.

jack> Yep, I hear you brother! Well it sounds like a few things have shifted for you a little bit this evening.

Drew> Perhaps, the true test will follow later....

jack> I'm gettin nervous about the words you used to frame that last statement!

jack> one in particular...

Drew> Was it the 't' word?

jack> yep, you passed the test!

jack> ;-)

jack> When you said "test", _I_ felt anxious!!!

Drew> RE: test, It didn't feel right when I typed it.

jack> Hey that's a cool "warning light" that came on for you re: "test"! Great!!!

Drew> I will welcome any small change I can make...

jack> Have your women friends noticed any changes in you since you've started working with MMO?

Drew> To be honest, I haven't really had any feedback, maybe I should ask a few queations...

jack>Re: asking your friends, maybe something like asking them if they've noticed any changes in you in the last six months, without consciously tying it (for them) to your beginning Male Multiple Orgasm practice.

Drew> I hope someone can tell the difference, I've been involved in so many things besides Male Multiple Orgasm with self-improvement in mind.

jack> No biggie, just curious what they might've noticed. I hope you'll let me know... Well, I'm aware we didn't really get into the survival value of MMO's directly, but somehow

jack> I think our discussion was nevertheless relevant to that issue. No prob, I'd like Fred to be here (as well as any of the rest of our readers!) for that one... so maybe next week we'll be able to get into it.

Drew> OK, it sounds good to me. BTW where is Fred this week?

jack> He was in Las Vegas! Gosh I hope he didn't have to WALK back to Utah!!! (somehow I don't get the feeling that Fred fits the compulsive gambler's profile!).

Drew> Me neither...

jack> Thanks a lot for the dialogue this evening, Drew!

Drew> I would just like to mention the Tantric sex video again briefly...

jack> yes!

Drew> We kinda got into discussing the personal furrballs that came up for me...

Drew> part of the reason that I got so upset, was because....

Drew> the couples in the video seemed so committed, they were vulnerable (open) enough to be totally honest with each other...

Drew> they were so connected (two people as one), and there was lots of physical contact (something I starve for as a single person)

Drew> even when they disagreed, they had wonderful ways to re-connect, and get back together, WOW!!!!!! there were also some parallels

Drew> with MMO, yet there were some differences, and I have to say I generally prefer the Male Multiple Orgasm techniques (no brinkmanship).

jack> Yeah, I hear that can really hurt to see other people enjoy each other and not have that in your life at the moment. I'm glad you like working with MMO!

Drew> Well, as usual I have lots more to think about this week... and also a few ideas about some action steps... so thanks once again for your advice during the chat.

jack> You're welcome! I appreciate the dialogue, it helps me get clearer about my own stuff! Would you be willing to summarize the "things to think about" and the "action steps"?

Drew> Sure, I'll give it a shot...

Drew> It basically comes down to appreciating where I'm at right now (which is much improved from even just a short time ago)... realizing that I have patterns which are limiting to me, and awareness is the first step in making a change...

Drew> The patterns I have make perfect sense, given my personal history, yet it's up to me to transcend those patterns...

Drew> RE: action steps; the S/C/S strategy is one for me to try on... it goes along with, taking the long term goal I have i.e. an intimate relationship, and sub-dividing it into smaller more manageable goals...

Drew> building trust in myself... utilizing my female friends as a resource, for feedback and 'pratice at relating'..

Drew> that's all that comes to mind at the moment.

jack> All? Sounds like a LOT to me! Thanks very much for the synopsis!

jack> are we about wrapped for this eve?

Drew> You're very welcome.

Drew> I think so, I'm on EDT remember.

jack> Yep I DO remember! And I gotta get back up at 3 ayem to open the chat channel for the PacRim! So... have a week that may pleasantly surprise you a little!

Drew> WOW! I have no idea how you manage to do that. Does anyone else show up?

jack> Not yet. But we DO have readers from that area, so I want to make the oppty available.

jack> Of course, that time also works for east coasters who are early birds! Europeans on their lunch break, and folks in the Middle East who are just gettin home from work!

Drew> You're a dedicated man, Jack Johnston!

jack> Thanks! I feel like this info is pretty important, and the connections we're making in these discussions are WAY powerful! Thanks for being such an integral part of it!

Drew> I enjoy it tremensously, and get so much out out of it, that it's very worthwhile for me.

jack> Music to my ears (and eyes!), brother! Have a wonderful, surprising week!

Drew> I suspect I will. I wish the same for you too, best wishes.

jack> Take care, hope to see you next week!

jack> ACTION huggin Drew

Drew> I hope so too...

Drew> ACTION returns hug!

Drew> See ya soon!!!!!

jack> Remember... COMPLETE Key Sound! Bye!