• Jack and Drew continue to discuss an issue brought up in Chat 0032 in Jack's last chat with Fred, namely, the power of practicing the Key Sound in front of a mirror, and the unresolved emotional issues such practice may evoke.
• They agree that this exercise may initially be more challenging than Key Sound practice with a partner.
• They identify authentic compassion (in contrast to self-pity) communicated to oneself in the mirror as a key ability to develop in order to fully open to climactically intense non-ejaculatory multiple orgasms, and the dramatically expanded capacity for intimacy that may accompany them.
• Drew next shares an insight triggered by discussion in a recent chat. He describes a "reframe" of feelings he'd heretofore experienced about not being attractive to women, that somehow women didn't enjoy sex, etc. The previous chat led him to realize that WOMEN really CAN FULLY EXPERIENCE, SHARE, AND ENJOY the orgasmic energy accessed through the Key Sound practice.
• Now he also realizes he can in time create the kind of relationship with another that he hopes for, and the starting point for this is in developing a stronger and more intimate relationship with himself.
• The group next discusses the issue of attractiveness, and Jack describes two general classes of contributing factors, the first being the healing of the "furballs" - the emotional wounds of the past and present, and developing an authentic, intimate, compassionate, and healthy erotic relationship with oneself.
• The second class includes physical world issues: stress management (projecting stressed out vibes isn't usually attractive, except to other stress puppies...), basic physical conditioning, and others.
• Next Drew aptly defines the difference between a "date" and sharing an activity with an acquaintance as being "romantic intent".
• As Drew reports some fears about rejection, etc. in asking for a date, Jack suggests that the explorations using the mirror and the practice of using the Key Sound to communicate compassion to oneself in the mirror can identify and perhaps help heal the kinds of wounds that may result in such fears.
• Jack relates this potential for healing in part to the practice's ability to shift an enculturated attitude that "women are the source of man's pleasure" to an awareness that we are the primary source of our own capacity for erotic pleasure and intimacy, and that we then have the opportunity to share this power with a partner.
• Drew confirms that this was the core of the reframe for him, realizing that his source of pleasure resides within himself.
• Jack sees "getting" this concept as having at least two aspects, the first (often) is understanding this intellectually, the second is "getting it" orgasmically (a full-body grok!).
• He invites Drew to use the new Very Important Tip given in Chat 0033, Session One, about how to intensify the orgasmic "Echo" feelings experienced in response to using the Key Sound....and re-emphasizes that a person's ability to fully feel these kinds of orgasms is a function of their ability to clear the "pleasure energy channels" of any emotional wounds that surface as one learns to increase the intensity of the pleasure.
• Drew confirms that he's also noticed difficulty in making the SECOND part of the Key Sound as he gets more turned on. Jack points out that it is exactly this ability to complete the second part of the Key Sound at higher levels of arousal that leads to Echo responses to the Key Sound of climactic intensity.
• Jack gives a brief synopsis of how he used this awareness of the breath's being high in the chest, coupled with the Key Sound to move that "energy center" down below the navel and genitals, that led directly to his first experience of non-ejaculatory orgasm of intensity greater than any ejaculorgasm he'd ever experienced.
• Drew concludes the chat by suggesting a topic to be included in a near-future chat: what functions or survival value these experiences may have other than "inseminating a woman" that Fred mentioned in a previous chat.

Drew> Hi Y'all

jack> Hey Drew!

Drew> What's happenin'?

jack> I'm sorry about the lateness of getting the channel open tonite. We've had power outages, etc.

jack> As I mentioned, I'm reworking the

jack> Questions and Answers Guide Book revision to integrate the important clarity we got

Drew> I understand, there is a tornado watch in my area right now, very windy etc.

jack> from Chat 0031, and also from Chat 0033. Wow! Tornado watch... we

jack> get little ones here sometimes with the thunderstorms. And wildfires from the lightning strikes!

jack> There's a way in which

jack> it seems like a fitting context for our main topic, eh?

Drew> nature in it's most powerful form!

jack> Were you able to get a peek at the chats from Aug 7?

Drew> Only briefly...

Drew> as I mentioned , I've not really been up to practicing of late

Drew> was it to do with mirror work?

jack> That was chat 32 a session on identifying furballs that can arise with mirror work, i.e.,

jack> for our readers: practice of the Key Sound while facing oneself in a mirror, and

jack> an appreciation of how revelatory this exercise can be... yet how transformational it can

jack> be as one finds ways to heal the unresolved emotional issues, attitudes, etc. ("furballs")

jack> that may arise during this practice. There are ways in which the mirror practice is MORE

jack> challenging than Key Sound practice with a partner!

Drew> I can appreciate that!

Drew> I haven't had a chance to try this for myself yet...

jack> It's a tremendous oppty to practice compassion where it's often QUITE sorely needed!

Drew> but I hope to soon, ovr.

jack> Great! Just take it slowly, remember not to push!

jack> Remember the compassion part...

jack> As distinguished from self-pity...

Drew> Copy COMPASSION!!!

jack> :-)

jack> Do you have any other ? about the mirror exercise?

Drew> I think I would like to try it first...

Drew> perhaps that will generate some questions...

Drew> there are a couple of other things that come to mind....

jack> Ok, good plan... I look fwd to hearing what you discover! Yeah, compassion's often a reeeeeal challenge to DOODS! It's a challenge for us but essential...Yes... pls go ahead!

jack> ACTION passing Talking Stick to Drew, gingerly...

Drew> firstly, I think something that was mentioned a few sessions ago

Drew> helped me to reframe something...

Drew> it's difficult to put it into words, but it has something to do

Drew> with sex being a shared experoence

Drew> I think I uncovered a furrball around this

Drew> something to do with believeing that women don't enjoy sex...

Drew> and more specifically, despite lots of evidence to the contrary, that I am not a desireable partner

Drew> and it seems to prevent me from initiating contact with members of the opposite sex

Drew> any thoughts? ovr.

jack> Did this come up during your practice?

Drew> not really, I've felt this way for as long as I can remember. ovr.

jack> Do you remember the "something" we were discussing that triggered the reframe?

Drew> probably not verbatim, but I think it was to do with

Drew> SHARING sexual energy, and that this is 'highly desireable' for women as well as men

Drew> and also thinking ahead to what it might be like to practice with a partner. ovr.

jack> What's the "thinking ahead" like?

Drew> It's a double edged sword really, kinda cool, yet frustrating because it's not happening in my present experience. ovr.

jack> Copy... my sense is that it can turn into a loop, too. In that if these issues are re-energizing as you're beginning to open yourself erotically, it acts as a "governor" on your ability

jack> to open and heal emotionally... which ability can enable you to channel more erotic energy and the intimacy that can accompany it...

jack> and THIS increased openness can be precisely a core component of your "attractiveness" in the eyes of another.

Drew> I agree. for me being vulnerable to open ones heart is the whole 'she-bang'

jack> !

Drew> HOW????????

jack> How would you describe the "Before and After" of the reframe?

Drew> I think it has to do with possibility

Drew> that I can in time learn to create the kind of relationship

Drew> that I want to have

Drew> with a 'significant other'

Drew> yet perhaps more omportantly myself FIRST!

jack> ...And IMHO THAT is the starting point! With you!

Drew> also, something to do with the Attractiveness you mentioned earlier. ovr

jack> pls say more...

Drew> well, I've done alot of work in the realm of personal growth...

Drew> and have a pretty good sef-image, yet in the areas of

Drew> love, emotions, sexuality and relating to others, there are

Drew> still many 'furrballs' popping up. ovr.

jack> RE: "attractiveness" I think there are at least two components: first, the inner wounds that need healing. The more of them you can heal, the more available you will be to someone else. The less likely you are to abuse THEM from unhealed wounds suddenly

jack> taking over an interaction, saying/doing very hurtful things from this altered state, etc.

jack> The second (at least) is the more PHYSICAL issues. First: stress management. This is a skill that can be learned. The better you learn to handle the challenges life throws your way,

jack> the higher your self esteem will tend to be. This will increase your attractiveness. I know

jack> that when I'm broadcasting "S T R E S S !!!" I'm not very attractive!!! :-)

jack> Another is physical conditioning. And I don't mean hard body stuff. In fact, an obsession with that kind of "perfection" can turn into its own trap! But I mean BASIC exercise that includes some gradual muscle toning, and some aerobics (if your MD says

jack> green light)... The reason being that when a person gets even a basic little program going

jack> (and that's all I got, when I do, which aint perfection either!) metabolism shifts, BIO ENERGY shifts...

Drew> Most people that i know, tell me that they think I'm pretty laid back, yet asking for a 'date' is STRESSFUL to me.

jack> other people notice this and are often attracted by it. Some of these people may usual be female!

Drew> I agree with the exercise part...

jack> How about the stress mgmt part?

Drew> I think exercise helps with that, and there are other tools that are also useful...

Drew> I've recently started to meditate, which I'm finding useful too. ovr.

jack> Great! So that's a few more big points in the Self-Care column!!!

jack> What's the difference between a "date" and going to the zoo with somebody?

Drew> Yep!, that's a high priority for me at the moment...

jack> Or to dinner, or the lake?

jack> High priority being the meditation?

Drew> Oh, now we come to the 'what constitutes a date' question.

jack> K...

Drew> high priority = self care i.e. meditiation, rest exercise, nutrition etc.

jack> copy, thanks!

Drew> K...??????

jack> sorry... = OK...

jack> pls continue with the what constitutes a date ?

Drew> I think everyone probaly has a unique definition...

jack> Yeah, that's more or less why I asked, so I wouldn't be making assumptions... ovr

Drew> I have many female friends that I go to the movies, zoo etc

Drew> I wouldn't really call them dates though...

jack> why?

jack> what's missing?

Drew> one friend of mine describes it as 'romantic intent'. ovr.

jack> Was this issue part of what changed when you mentioned reframe?

Drew> I'm not sure, I'm still not comfortable with the notion of dating, and initiating 'dates'...

Drew> It's like being vulnerable enough to risk rejection. ovr.

jack> By saying or doing what?

Drew> just by asking for a date, actually I think it's anticipated hurt that prevents me

Drew> from taking action. ovr.

Drew> oh, and something else...

jack> yes?

Drew> it's the idea that 'she wouldn't be interested in me' sort of thinking, which seems to be directly proportional to how much I'm attracted to the other person. ovr.

jack> I think it comes back to the practice of healing your wounds and getting the help you need to do that. As you begin the practice with the mirror, similar stuff may come into

jack> focus... it's also an oppty though to practice using the Key Sound with the intention of bringing the compassionate loving energy from the heart and directing

jack> through the eyes, into the heart of the person you see in the mirror. I also believe

jack> that as you continue the Male Multiple Orgasm practice, many of these feelings may change. Part of

jack> it seems to how maybe "the woman" remains the ultimate source of pleasure, healing, a "successful life", all of the other stuff our culture teaches us to attach to "woman as symbol, potential mate"

jack> as you learn to open to the multi-orgasmic feelings and the self-love that can begin to accompany them,

jack> the source-of-pleasure, healing, etc. may begin to shift, to where it becomes centered

jack> in _you_, rather than in someone else. This is what other men have reported. R.D. has been real clear about how _his_ feelings changed in this

jack> way, and after a 9 year experience of not having an intimate friend, he suddenly found himself able to

jack> connect with someone. ovr

Drew> that's kinda what the reframe was about. ovr.

jack> Pls say more!

Drew> the social programming regarding the roles of men and women...

Drew> and how that affects us as indiviuals... also

Drew> the idea that women are the source of sexual pleasure for men, and hence in 'control' ovr.

jack> How has that changed as a result of the reframe?

Drew> any man that has access to the erotic energy available through MMO

Drew> is freed from this notion...

Drew> and can them choose to share this intmate experience with another

jack> One of my favorite teachers taught me that knowing that things can be different is the source from which all change flows..

Drew> the term I'm thinking of is that

Drew> you can validate your own sexuality

Drew> and not be dependent on external sources

Drew> to 'know you're OK' in that realm.

jack> Yeah that sure checks with my experience! And it's at least a two step process:

jack> the first is getting it intellectually... the second is getting it _orgasmically_ i.e., the knowing throughout your entire being that only seems to be available by experiencing

jack> the abundance of non-ejaculatory multiple orgasms.

Drew> I look forward to getting there!

jack> Which brings us back to the beginning of tonite's chat, where I mentioned the chat of July 24, and those of Aug 7.

jack> July 24 being the identification of

jack> "markers" that can let us know that we are beginning to experience orgasmic feelings, even if they're not YET the climactic intensity we've experienced with

jack> ejaculorgasm... and THAT was the topic of the First Session of Key Sound Male Multiple Orgasm Chat #0033. How, once you begin recognizing these feelings that you tend

jack> to associate with orgasm, do you learn to _intensify_ them? Fred had

jack> asked this question... he'd verified that he was experiencing many of the "markers" we'd discussed in the July 24 chat. But not quite that WOW intensity yet...

jack> The key tip, which is the SECOND reason I'm revamping the Third Edition of the Guide Book to incorporate it, is that at first when I asked him if he'd

jack> been making the Key Sound... but after further inquiry, it turns out he was reaching a point

jack> where he was so turned on that in fact he was not making the _second_ part of the Key Sound as he got more turned on! The key tip

jack> here is that when you get to that point where it gets more difficult to make the SECOND part of the Key Sound, the part with the ROLL in it that makes your belly muscles move weird,

jack> THAT'S when the intensity of those "proto-orgasmic tingles" starts increasing dramatically.

Drew> opening the heart would surely be part of this process too, right?

jack> Oh absolutely!!! That's one of the prime directives! To open to the energy, you've got to open emotionally... that's why the "furballs" come up, as that energetic "channel" is

jack> trying to clear itself of the wounds in order to "pass" a greater flow of energy...

Drew> yes, that makes a lot of sense ovr.

jack> But that Tip is a very important one just from a physical standpoint. That, assuming

jack> you are taking appropriate means for transforming emotional wounds BEFORE CONTINUING THE Male Multiple Orgasm PRACTICE, unless _gentle_ use of the Key Sound in itself

jack> effects the necessary healing, assuming that you ARE dealing with the "furballs" in this way, then it's also VERY IMPORTANT to be aware of your use of the Key

jack> Sound as you start getting "really" turned on. It's very likely that you too may notice (and may already have done so!) increasing difficulty in making the SECOND part of the Key Sound...

jack> You ever notice anything like that?

Drew> I think I have, as the energy 'rises', breathing tends to get shorter and higher in the chest. ovr.

jack> EXACTLY!!! I dunno if you remember, but in the very earliest writings I did about this topic, when I described how I discovered it, one of the first things I noticed was that

jack> as I got more turned on the "energetic center" of my breath was high up in my chest,

jack> then I remembered reading a phrase from part of a book by Rajneesh I read where he

jack> mentioned (but did not describe) "Valley Orgasm". I took the term Valley as a clue, and began searching for

jack> a way to get that energetic center of the breath into the "Valley" of my body. After many months of "further research" :-) I discovered a complex sound, the Key Sound as I demonstrate in the audio seminars, which seemed to get that energy

jack> down into the lower parts of me. The VERY FIRST TIME I experience a non-ejaculatory series of FULLY CLIMACTIC orgasms was when I was so turned on I thot my head and my chest were going to burst, and I made an _extra_ effort to get out that COMPLETE sound,

jack> and when I did, THAT'S when the

jack> "Echo" feelings that came back felt like the rush of an intensely pleasurable fire hose running up my spine and out the top of my head... So... try it, you might like it! :-) ovr

Drew> sounds wonderful, can you do this each time now?

jack> Rather than trying to get an "each time" set up, how about just taking the next step and discovering what YOUR experience is? The focus of the exercise is that as you get

jack> more and more turned on, make sure you are still able to make the COMPLETE Key Sound. If you get to a point where you can't, THEN BACK OFF ON THE EROTIC

jack> STIMULATION UNTIL YOU CAN. If you need to reduce or cease the erotic stimulation for a little while, just continue the Key Sound plus regular breaths system I've been teaching,

Drew> I will, I'm just curious about your own discoveries. ovr.

jack> and then when you feel you can handle a Key Sound with a little more erotic energy behind it, then recommence the erotic stimulation GRADUALLY and _ONLY_ as long as

jack> you _continue_ to be able to make the SECOND part of the Key Sound. ovr

Drew> That's 'sound' advice, I'll bear it in mind when I'm practicing next.

jack> Hey I like that... "Sound Advice"! May I use that?

Drew> Listen, I think this has been another great session, however I'm fading fast , I think I need to retire...

Drew> of course you can use 'Sound Advice'. ovr.

jack> We're on the same wavelength there, bro'... I think this is a good wrap up point. I do hope you'll make that Key Sound tip a focus of your next practice. Just see if you can

jack> take that seeming limit a little further... wherever it is you find yourself starting to lose the ability to make the second part of the Key Sound, that's the Growing Edge of your practice!

jack> Just work with moving that Edge a little further, make the Key Sound

Drew> I'll have to make a note to ask my second question at another time, since we really got into the first....

Drew> perhaps I'll ask it via e-mail.

jack> completely while experiencing a _little more_ erotic stim.

jack> RE: Second question, how about typing it here so I can be thinking about it, then we'll pick up on it next time...

Drew> sure

jack> go ahead pls

Drew> I think it was Fred who was talking about insemination being the

Drew> goal of ejaculation and/or orgasm

jack> yes it was...

Drew> when you mentioned you had another theory about the survival of our species

Drew> I'm curious to know your thoughts about that.

jack> OK, good one! I hope to see you next time. Get some rest, and I look fwd to hearing reports from your field research!

Drew> ACTION Hugging Jack with great appreciation and gratitude for another great session

Drew> great session

jack> ACTION huggin Drew, with like sentiments! :-)

jack> Thanks brother for being an integral and necessary part of it!

Drew> Your welcome. Be talkin' to ya soon bro!

jack> OK man, I shipped your 3rd Edition off today! Lemme know whatch think!
jack> ACTION hangin a sign on the door: "Back next week at noon Oregon USA (Pacific Daylight) Time"