• This is a very important chat in which "Utah Fred" reports enjoying the "extremely pleasurable Male Multiple Orgasm feelings", yet wonders what the next step is for increasing these feelings to the point that they seem to be clearly a "climax".
• Fred confirms that the "extremely pleasurable" feelings he's describing do not include ejaculation, although they display many of the characteristics of orgasm discussed in Chat #0031 .
• Fred also makes a dramatic report that once he's in the process, these extremely pleasurable feelings seem to be readily available to him. In effect, he says, "...if I want to feel them some more, all I have to do is ask."
• He states that even though up until now there's been no sense of "climax", he usually terminates his practice because he feels "so satisfied".
• As a result of his question about climax, he discovers some VERY PIVOTAL information about the importance of continuing to make the SECOND part of the Key Sound, as the erotic energy becomes ever more intense.
• Jack elucidates the challenge, and the powerful effects, of making sure one continues to include the COMPLETE second portion of the Key Sound, as one gets more and more turned on.
• Newbie Rene (in nightowl mode!) checks in from Ontario Canada! He raises a common concern that although he's using the Key Sound, etc., his level of pleasure seems to plateau, and he finds himself getting bored. Rene offers a GREAT IDEA: making a tape of his Key Sounds that he can use for "inspiration" and as a model while he's practicing. He reports that he continues to use the Key Sound every 3rd or 4th breath, even after beginning erotic stimulation.
• Jack offers AN IMPORTANT SUGGESTION that once Rene's begun to add erotic stimulation, he switch from an external measure of which breath to make the Key Sound on (i.e. "every 3rd breath"), to an INternal cuing system. Namely, use the Key Sound to exhale any "larger-than-average" inbreath - such inbreath being for most of us a typical response to any erotic stimulation. For more info on this, see the chat, and also the Very Important Tips article: Key Sound timing... Key Sound™.
• Rene realizes that he's been using too much direct penile stimulation. He decides to alter his stimulation pattern, and to focus on making complete Key Sounds (i.e. making sure he completes the SECOND part of the Key Sound) at the higher levels of stimulation.
• Jack reiterates the location of one area some men refer to as the "Male Clitoris" because it can be so erotically sensitive.
• Rene reports penile contractions apparently similar to those Fred has described in previous chats.
• Jack concludes the chat by inviting Rene to practice the soft use of the Key Sound with his wife, without any erotic stimulation, using key sound with your partner:Live Forum.

SESSION ONE

jack> Good evening Fred!

Fred> Good evening, Jack!

jack> It's good to "see" you again!

Fred> Always the same.

jack> :-)

jack> I want to thank you and Drew

jack> for inspiring that great discussion of July 24

jack> where we got into identifying some specific characteristics of orgasm...

jack> I immediately incorporated what we delineated into my live presentations

jack> down in the San Francisco Bay Area. The men _and women_ seemed to be able to recognize the beginning stirrings of these kinds of orgasms much earlier in the process... ovr

Fred> You continue, Jack. I'm "listening."ovr

jack> Several reported recognizing one or a few of the characteristics

jack> after just a few uses of the Key Sound. The "Echo" sensations they noticed occurring

jack> immediately after their use of the Key Sound suddenly took on new meaning

jack> for them. Since then, I've heard from several people from those workshops who report the

kind of sensations you, Drew, Mike, MikeB, R.D., and some of the others have been reporting.

jack> That reminds me, last week you mentioned "Male Multiple Orgasm feelings"... something

jack> to the effect that you were continuing to enjoy the "Male Multiple Orgasm feelings". Could you describe

jack> them a little?

Fred> Jack, I'm out of form as I haven't practiced for a few days, but I'll do my best.

jack> Thanks!

Fred> The feelings start in a kind of "pumping" sensation that repeats rhymithically.

jack> and this feels automatic?

Fred> Yes. As my body begins to shiver and shake,

Fred> the pumping becomes stronger and stronger, as I've said before,

Fred> as if I were copulating with the woman on top.

Fred> I can stop whatever stimulation I'm giving myself,

Fred> and the feelings continue.

jack> For about how long usually?

Fred> I said last time that the pumping sensation was clearly

Fred> related to pumping semen into a woman.

jack> Yes, yet there did not seem

jack> to be an ejaculation?

Fred> You asked me if the sensations might have nothing to do with insemination.

Fred> There was no ejaculation whatsoever.

jack> Would you describe the experience as pleasurable, or...?

Fred> Extremely pleasurable.ovr

jack> All riiiight!!!

jack> Any other sensations you might become aware of in

Fred> You asked how long the feelings continued.

jack> looking back on the experience? Yes, how long they cont'd...

Fred> I suppose as long as I keep asking for them. I don't know.ovr

jack> Fred, that's quite intriguing! That

Fred> The feelings never "took over" as they do in ejaculation.ovr

jack> statement about "...keep asking for them..." RE: "took over"... more or less like

jack> no sense of a "point of no return"?

Fred> Yes.ovr

jack> Was it all one level of extreme pleasure, or were there fluctuations in intensity (and quality

or character perhaps)?

Fred> By "yes," I mean that I never experienced a feeling of a point of no return.ovr

Fred> I do not remember a feeling of "culminating." They feelings were of equal intensity.ovr

jack> copy re: no sense of a point of no return... how about level(s) of extreme pleasure... pretty

constant, or fluctuations.

jack> copy... you are saying of equal intensity?

Fred> Pretty constant.ovr

jack> I think our readers would be quite interested in hearing a little more about what this sense

jack> of "all I have to do is ask for more" is like!

Fred> Why do I quit? I don't know. Sometimes my throat gets dry.

Fred> Mostly, I think that I am so satisfied (even though I would

Fred> like more of a climax, I quit just to rest and relax.ovr

jack> So this sense of all you have to do is ask... if your throat weren't dry yet, and you

jack> decided to "ask for more", how would you do that?

Fred> I would say that I would continue by continuing light massage

Fred> and, of course, the Key Sounding, and being

Fred> sure to avoid ejaculation.ovr

jack> How do you "be sure"?

jack> i.e to avoid ejac?

Fred> Mostly by cutting back on the stimulation, if not cutting it out altogether.ovr

jack> At a time like that, are you still able to make the Key Sound?

Fred> Yes, absolutely. Even if I ejaculate.ovr

jack> Thanks! And if you do ejaculate, how would you compare the experience with what it was

like before you started Male Multiple Orgasm practice?

Fred> The intensity of pleasure experienced at ejaculating has improved.ovr

jack> That checks with my personal experience, and with what we've been hearing from the rest

of people who've been checking in via mail, etc.

jack> I asked about the Key Sound

jack> because a number of men (myself included!) have noticed that as we get more and more

jack> turned on, our chests seem to fill up with that energy and it sometimes gets more

jack> and more difficult to make a complete Key Sound... especially the second part. It's

jack> almost as if we get kinda stuck on the first sound but cant quite get through to the second

part! ovr

Fred> I think you're right. At the moment of ejaculation, the sound is just one syllable repeated

over and over in sync with the

Fred> ejaculation.ovr

jack> Wow! Ok! That's valuable information! Have you ever

jack> been aware of getting so turned on that it became difficult to make the second part of the Key Sound™ as I demonstrate in the audio seminars?

Fred> I believe in all the excitement I have just dropped the second part.ovr

jack> Aha!

jack> :-)

Fred> This helps me, as I'll give more attention

Fred> to being sure to finish with the second sound.ovr

jack> Great! Earlier you'd mentioned that

jack> these feelings you've been feeling are extremely pleasurable, you can "have them"

jack> as much as you want, but that you hadn't yet experienced that sense of "climax" this way, is that about right?

Fred> Precisely.ovr

jack> The "key" is in the Key Sound! The challenge is to become aware of at what level of

jack> excitement you feel you can no longer make the SECOND PART OF THE SOUND, and then to go for AT LEAST ONE MORE KEY SOUND... __WITH__ the second part included!

jack> Because what tends to happen, is that

jack> when you get to that point where you feel you're just too turned on to make another

complete Key Sound, and express all of that pent up erotic energy in the SECOND PART of the Key Sound,

jack> i.e., you go ahead and make that (at least one more!) Key Sound, the Echoes from THAT puppy tend to be... well... check it out and let me know... :-)

Fred> I want to print that out, Jack, so that I can study it and

Fred> be sure to remember it.ovr

jack> You bet! Shall we wrap it up on that note so you, I, and our readers can get back to their "field research"? :-)

Fred> That's fine with me, Jack. And also so you can get some rest.ovr

jack> Thank you for that! Yes, I'm still road-weary... And lotsa lovely mail to answer and post. I

jack> also want to take this oppty

jack> to thank all of those who are continuing to access our Web site and check out the information we're sharing here, and a BIG WELCOME TO ALL OF THE NEW READERS! There

jack>were a bunch of you this week! I hope you'll let us know what you think, and what you're

jack> learning from all of this! Fred, thanks once again so very much for your openness and willingness to share your experience

jack> as you continue this journey of discovery. Many are learning much from the points you

jack> raise, and the experiences you describe... and I count myself among them! Have a great week!

Fred> Same to you -- and best wishes to other who may read our chat.ovr

jack> ACTION huggin Fred

jack> ACTION wavin to the readers

Fred> Handshakes and hugs!

jack> ACTION hangin a sign on the door: "Back at 11pm"

SESSION TWO:

Rene> Hi Jack

jack> hello!

jack> Glad you could make it!

jack> Did you have any difficulty getting in?

Rene> Glad to be here, I've just completed your Audio Seminar and being a somewhat strange practice

Rene> No problems really getting in

jack> good! yes, pls continue...

Rene> Its been about 6 session now that I have tried. I find there are two distinct problems I am having

Rene> One, is that when I am stimulating myself 'lower and slower' I often seems to loose enthusiasm for the

Rene> whole process, in other words I get bored so I 'turn up the heat' to get more stimulation.

jack> And the other?

Rene> Secondly, when I am close to what seems like an ejaculorgasm, when I do the 'sound' to divert

Rene> the energy, I again begin to loose the intensity of sexual feelings, although I do get a pleasant

Rene> overall buzz. When I come close to an ejaculorgasm and try to find some other 'door' I often

Rene> feel intense sensations overall while doing the 'sound' however, I invariably begin ejaculation spasms.

Rene> I have a couple of questions on these matters

Rene> OK?

jack> yes, by all means!

Rene> How long is a typical Male Multiple Orgasm session for you?

jack> An average of one to two hours... less if i'm tired, more if energized and/or with a partner...

and you? What have they been averaging?

Rene> My sessions seem to be at least 40 - 60 minutes.

Rene> Do you find yourself on an continually climbing sexual curve, or do you go up and down?

jack> Tends to fluctuate... may I ask you a coupla "context" questions to lay some groundwork?

Rene> Ok

jack> Thanks! That session duration you mentioned is about what I've heard from others as well.

jack >By the way, where are you "calling" from, what is your age, and how did you get ahold of the tape? Is it the New Third Edition?

Rene> I'm from Ontario Canada, 40 years old and I ordered the tape from tantra.com. I just received

Rene> it 10 days ago, so I'm not sure what edition it is. over

Rene> Anything else?

jack> OK thanks! I just shipped tantra.com some of the first copies of the Third Edition, but you may have just missed "the cut". No prob, I'll be happy to

jack> ship you the new one if you don't have it. The new one actually says Third Edition on the tape itself,

Rene> Great.

jack> and the box has a dayglow sticker on it that says Completely Revised and Updated New Edition... does yours look like that or not?

Rene> Hang on a sec, I'll go check it

jack> copy!

Rene> My box does not say 'Completely Rev..... etc.'

jack> OK! So email me your snail address and we'll get you "updated"!

Rene> OK, will do

Rene> Do you need more background?

jack> Only if you care to share it

Rene> I'm married, have practiced yoga for 20 years, have always had an abundance of

Rene> sexual energy. I am hoping that MMO's will be more satisfying than regular sex.

jack> Stay tuned, mon ami!

jack> Ok, how about some updates since I made the tape you DID receive?

Rene> I've read the web page updates, if that's what you mean

jack> Ok, great! That helps a lot! How about the chats? Esp the recent ones?

Rene> Yes, the chats are really great.

jack> All right! So now we have a basis for continuing our discussion!

Rene> Also, the example of the key sound is a handy reminder. I am thinking of making a tape of

jack > it to accompany myself during a session. Hearing you makes me relax and really let loose a good roar.

jack> Yes, in fact people have asked me to do that and make it available. I think it's an excellent idea to make your own!!! I'm glad you found the sounds inspirational! :-)

jack> When you practice the

jack> Key Sound, are you using regular breaths between each Key Sound breath?

Rene> Yes, at first I wasn't and I was hyperventalating. I do key sound every three breaths now

jack> OK... now is that withOUT erotic stimulation, or WITH erotic stimulation?

Rene> As recommended, I start without erotic stimulation, then follow up with stimulation. During both types I use key sound every three breaths or so.

jack> Ok, thanks for the clarification. Do you recall the Very Important Tips article about Timing the Key Sound?

Rene> You mean waiting until you get the proper 'reverberation' before continuing stimulation?

jack> Not quite... the "reverberation" is what I call the "Echo" response(s) which seem to happen

automatically in response to using the Key Sound. Instead, I'm

jack> referring to the way to tell WHICH breath to use the Key Sound on, as you begin adding

erotic stimulation... ovr

Rene> You mean using keysound to

Rene> disperse built up sexual tension?

jack> I'm a little hesitant to use those exact words because of the secondary associations... rather,

jack> I'm referring to the "cue" we can get from our body as to which breath might yield the strongest Echo responses from using the KeySound... specifically, when we

jack> begin to feel turned on, we usually will take a larger inbreath than we normally do. Does that check with your experience?

Rene> Check, I've discovered I have particularly happy inbreaths as the charge begins to build

Rene> I relish those inbreaths.

jack> ah yes! So the Timing cue is to use the Key Sound to exhale those "larger-than-average" inbreaths...

Rene> Do you always maintain the ratio of regular breaths to keysounds or do the keysounds increase as your built up sexual tension approaches orgasm?

jack> They may increase in frequency somewhat. But it's still important to get those

jack> regular breaths in between, to give your body a chance to respond, and for you to oxygenate... which for me seems to help me "hold a bigger charge"... i.e. if I

jack> continue to oxygenate well, I seem to be able to experience ever more deliciously intense sensations. The point I was leading to

jack> with the question about timing is that once you begin to raise the erotic energy, I suggest you shift from an external "cue" namely "always three breaths" for example, to an INternall cuing system, based on

jack> noticing when you take a larger than average INbreath in response to an increase in erotic stimulation. ovr

Rene> Ok. Sounds good. Do you require much penile stimulation during the build up of the 'charge', or is it minimal?

jack> It seems that for many, once that INternal cuing pattern is established, that "less is more" often seems to be the case. At least for a while... once you

jack> establish that Key Sound exhaling the larger-than-average inbreath, then follow with a few regular breaths, the Echo sensations tend to increase in strength and variety, often

jack> taking on more and more of the characteristics we discussed in Key Sound Male Multiple Orgasm Chat 0031.

jack> Then the challenge becomes as Fred and I discussed in the earlier chat this evening:

jack> That as you get more and more turned on, it tends to get more difficult to make

jack> the SECOND part of the Key Sound. BUT when you're able to DO so when the charge is in this higher range of intensity, the chances get very good that the Echo sensations will feel increasingly climactic... worth a little "field research" wouldn't you say? :-)

jack> I'll be very interested to hear back from you re: whether you're getting bored or not, after you begin working

jack> with the Key Sound timed in this way... ovr

Rene> OK.So, you definitely do not build up to a near climax using a lot of penile stimulation. I find

Rene> that I have been giving myself too much penile stimulation to bring myself 'up'. You are suggesting

Rene> that I can get 'up' using the well-timed keysound and minimal stimulation. Correct? ovr

jack> Yes! That seems to be the experience of many men doing this practice! Now in the beginning it may not feel "up" in the same way! Your penis may not even be erect... but the pleasure that is running thru your body can be... in Fred's words from earlier this

jack> evening: "extremely pleasurable"... So the focussed model then becomes one of

jack> continuing to add more erotic stimulation AS LONG AS YOU CAN SUCCESSFULLY CONTINUE TO MAKE THE COMPLETE KEY SOUND, especially that second part, because

jack> that's where all of the pent up energy seems to come out... is in the second part. That's why it's so often difficult to MAKE the second part as the charge gets really built up!

jack> If you find you're not able to make a complete second part of the Key Sound, then back off on the stimulation until you can... then you may resume your way back "up" the scale of

jack> increasing stimulation. But I urge you to explore those "lower" sensitive areas, in addition

jack> to stimulating the end of your penis. For example, the corpus spongiosum penis. If you trace down the underside of your penis, when you get near the base of the part that stands up when you get an erection, the tissue

jack> becomes rather spongy. That area, once you're turned on some, can begin to take on quite erotic sensations, even with light touch... this is true for many tho perhaps not for all, naturally...ovr

Rene> I find I have been roaring my head off to try and stop or defer an ejaculation, this is not working. However, I do have a remarkable ejaculation. I will concentrate on monitoring my internal cues as suggested.

Rene> Do you do a lot of roaring, at the moment of truth?

jack> Yes exactly! Another benefit of this practice is that orgasms WITH ejaculation tend to be more intensely pleasurable than prior to the Male Multiple Orgasm practice. RE: roaring... yes, I may be making quite a bit of sound. I can feel MORE if I also allow the sound.

jack> Did I answer your question?

Rene> Yes, but I'd like to know

Rene> whether your penis has any contractions at all. Mine seems to have minor - non ejaculatory

Rene> contractions which send maybe a drop of semen to the top. You, I understand, do not experience

Rene> penile contractions like these? ovr

jack> That sounds something like what Fred is reporting. I hope you and he can get together on the same chat some time to compare notes on that one. For me, I usually don't experience

jack> penile contractions that mimic the ejaculatory pulsations, unless I am in fact about to ejaculate, but I DO experience a kind of SURGING of my entire genital area when an orgasmic wave passes thru me... and

jack> when these waves happen, there is also a very noticeable automatic contraction of my stomach area that is very similar to the way this area moves when

jack> I make the Key Sound...ovr

Rene> I've exhausted my questions. You're a great help Jack!

jack> Thanks Rene! Be sure to send me that snail address. And... you're quite a nightowl, "eh?"

Rene> Tonight I am. I'll check in again and let you know my progress. I know these things take time. ovr & out.

jack> OK I wanted to ask

jack> a quick ?

Rene> Yes

jack> Have you and your wife begun practicing together the soft Key Sound with no erotic stimulation?

jack> ovr

Rene> No not together. I think I exhausted her patience working with me a couple of times. I will definitely try that in the near future (without erotic stimuli). I have a quick question too, have you ever had an Male Multiple Orgasm in a dream? Lucid or regular?

jack> Wow! that's an EXCELLENT question!!! I... believe that I have some time ago... and the dream DID feel lucid. I was feeling that sense of orgasmically charged being like

jack> Fred described earlier tonite when he said something like "if I wanted more, all I had to do was ask"

jack> how about you?

Rene> Well dreaming is a big subject, however, I have had a lot of incredible experiences in lucid dreams, but no MMOs. The most amazing

Rene> feelings and experiences are available in dreams and I intend to extend my Male Multiple Orgasm practice to my lucid dreaming practice. It is just too much fun.

jack> Well dreams are an area of special interest to me as well, so I definitely look fwd to

jack> more discussion with you in THAT area as well! Is this time slot the best for you, or would there be a better one? Is the 6pm (Oregon time) slot any good for you, I think that's 8 or 9 your time...

Rene> Yes its a whole other chat. I'll look forward to talking with you about it. It's 3:15 AM here. The earlier time slot is definitely better for me.

Rene> 6PM Oregon is best.

jack> OK, great!!! That's the one that Fred regularly shows for, as does Drew quite often, so we'll get some great dialogue going! I look fwd to our next chat!

Rene> OK talk to you then. Ovr.

jack> ...and... OUT! :-)

jack> ACTION hanging sign on the door "See ya next week!"