• Fred has good news about changing his attitude towards the way he works with Male Multiple Orgasm!
• Fred has some even MORE INCREDIBLE good news about his new found ability to experience ejaculation without experiencing guilt! For the first time in 30 YEARS!
• Jack gives very specific instructions (which are also documented in Key Sound™ out here on the Website) to Fred as to how to use the Key Sound at the most effective moment to get closer to experiencing a full Male Multiple Orgasm.
• There is a lot of helpful information in this chat about your breath and how to make it work for you!
• Up to this point Fred had been very sparing and cautious about how much erotic stimulation he had been using along with the Key Sound because usually too much stimulation would bring on ejaculation. But in this chat Jack suggests ways for Fred to integrate a little more erotic stimulation into his practice which will hopefully get him nearer to where he wants to be.

Jack: Hi Fred, how are you?
Fred: I'd say I'm on a pleasant plateau. I'm successfully changing the objective from climax to explore.
Jack: Good!
Fred: And I'm just trying to not try to put such an emphasis on where I'm going but what I'm finding.
Jack: Great! What are you finding?
Fred: The same as before, very pleasurable, that pumping sensation that does seem to be going toward orgasm but doesn't. And so actually that's where I am.
Jack: And now um, by pumping sensation, you mean a pumping sensation in your genitals? Is that right? Now, this occurs when you're practicing the Key Sound and the breathing, with no direct erotic stimulation? Is that correct?
Fred: No there maybe some erotic stimulation, mild. But I haven't located any points as such but there may be some mild. But the penis is not erect, and yet this afternoon my left thumb touched the head of my penis and it gave me quite a jolt.So I don't know Jack.
Jack: So it sounds like in a way that although you're not experiencing what you would call orgasm, that there's a new sensitivity or something. I mean when you talk about, you know,you touched the head of your penis with your thumb today and you got a very powerful response it sounds like.
Fred: Right that's true.
Jack: And so that sounds different than what you're used to. Is that right?
Fred: I don't remember that happening before.
Jack: Ok. Alright, so it sounds like overall, you're I guess more erotically open maybe than you were before? Is that fair to say. Or something, I mean it's, you're more sensitive it sounds like.
Fred: Well, I don't know.
Jack: I don't know how you would characterize it.But it sounds like there is a difference.
Fred: That one touch was an indication of greater sensitivity I would think. But it only happened once and it was very brief, but that's alright I'm not complaining.
Jack: Ok, now um what do you think would happen if you increased the erotic stimulation a little bit.
Fred: Well now let's see. A few days ago I did, and then I got so hot that I just masturbated and had an orgasm.
Jack: Ok, an orgasm with ejaculation right?
Fred: Ejaculation.
Jack: So you...
Fred: And I did not suffer guilt about it.
Jack: That sounds major!
Fred: I thought you'd say so.
Jack: Well what do you think?
Fred: I think you're right Jack.
Jack: I mean is that different for you?
Fred: It is different for me yes!
Jack: Yeah, it was my understanding that the guilt that you felt at the time of ejaculation, was something that was fairly common for you.
Fred: I wouldn't say at the time of ejaculation, but following.
Jack: But following ejaculation, and that experience of more or less having a guilt attack afterwards, was fairly common for you?
Fred: I would say so.
Jack: Did it happen every time?
Fred: Yes.
Jack: So, Ok. And so now, and how long had that been the case?
Fred: Years, many many years.
Jack: Many years. Like 10 years, 20 years, 30 years?
Fred: 30 years.
Jack: 30 years?
Fred: Sure.
Jack: Ok, and last week you experienced an orgasm with ejaculation where you didn't feel that kind of guilt?
Fred: Well because I've been working on not feeling it.
Jack: Well good, that's wonderful.
Fred: Well I have been so I've successful.
Jack: Well that's wonderful Fred. I think that's great.
Fred: Well that's good.
Jack: Well what do you think?
Fred: I think it's in the right direction Jack.
Jack: Wow. Yeah I realize it's one time and you're certainly might feel guilty at some point again when you ejaculate, but there's a way in which it seems kind of seems like at least the thin of the wedge doesn't it?
Fred: I don't know, what you mean by the thin end of the wedge?
JacK: That's an expression. It means, you know when you're affecting change, that here's a small change that maybe suggests greater things.
Fred: But I'd still rather avoid ejaculation.
Jack: I understand that.So I'm wondering now if we can kind of look at that experience that you did have a little bit, and you know at some point you made a decision to kind of shift gears, and go for it the old fashoned way.
Fred: I felt that my inhibition about ejaculation was perhaps precluding my having a climax with just the MMO.
Jack: Right. And so you started increasing the stimulation, now when you started increasing the stimulation what happened to your use of the Key Sound?
Fred: Well it got louder.
Jack: ok. How much louder?
Fred: Alot louder.
Jack: And you say it got louder, so did that seem kind of like it sort of automatically did so? Or? Or you needed to make it louder because there was more energy or what?
Fred: I'd say there was more energy. More drive.
Jack: So maybe it sounded a little bit more like what is in the Audio Seminar? On the tape would you say?
Fred: It was less rolling, more pitching. Because I think that it was more in tune with the rythym of masturbation.
Jack: Ok, so the energy was increasing and you were connecting it to a sound but it was a sound that did not include that rolling sensation. So at that point as the erotic energy increased, as your stimulation increased, then you at some point, more or less, abandoned, or ceased to use the Key Sound. Is that right.
Fred: That's right.
Jack: And so I'm wondering what, how did you decide that, or what.
Fred: I got too excited, I think I got the stimulator out if I do that that's the end because it stimulates me so that I just want to ejaculate.
Jack: Yeah because it's so intense. It's interesting to me the point at which you abandoned using the Key Sound. The reason I say that is because if you can continue to use the Key Sound, as the erotic excitement increases, even a little bit, just take it a little bit further, and as the erotic energy increases remember what I said in the Timing Article, about as the erotic energy increases, to use the Key Sound on that breath when you're in-breath is larger.Does that make sense to you?
Fred: When my in-breath is larger than what?
Jack: Well larger than average.
Fred: I see.
Jack: In other words, when you start to stimulate yourself at some point you probably you probably kind of take a larger inhale, don't you?
Fred: I don't remember Jack. I had not observed that. But I will look for it.
Jack: Ok, well look for that. See if as you begin to stimulate yourself, you know as you begin to get turned on my hunch is your breathing probably changes, from what it is right now let'say. Would you say so? Or wouldn't you say so?
Fred: I honestly don't know. I don't think my breathing changes unless I change it.
Jack: As you get more excited your breathing stays just kind of like it is now, it doesn't get faster, it doesn't get deeper?
Fred: I'm not aware of any changes that I don't make consciously on purpose.
Jack: But if you're changing.You do consciously on purpose sometimes breath faster, or breath deeper.
Fred: Well I do the special breathing with the contraction of the lower belly, and...
Jack: Yeah but you, but I'm talking about just when you masturbate usually.
Fred: I'm not aware of the changes
Jack: So all the way up through ejaculation you're breathing stays exactly the same, it stays just kinda at the same...
Fred: It probably doesn't because when I think of it now, or imagine it then you breathe intensely, especially when you ejaculate.
Jack: Yeah your breathing is, how do you think it's different at that point.
Fred: It's more, I don't know, shorter I guess.
Jack: Shorter and what?
Fred: Shorter breaths I suppose.Gasps.
Jack: So it sounds like maybe faster?
Fred: Sounds like it.
Jack: Well I would suggest that you pay some attention to that. To what you're breathing is like.And don't worry too much about the special breathing that I talk about in the tape.
Jack: And that kind ofthing. Don't worry about that at this point. You know, continue to use the Key Sound, but see if youcan identify as you begin to add direct erotic stimulation, see if at some point your breath, just yournatural breathing, tend to change.
Jack: Like it may get a little faster, or it may get deeper, like you'llinhale take in breath more than you normally would.
Jack: I think for alot of people that's what tends to happen. Is that when you, if you start using the vibrator, my hunch is that at some point you would kind of take a big inhale.
Fred: Well that sounds right doesn't it?
Jack: Well it's right by my experience. I don't know if it's right by you're experience that's why I'm asking.
Fred: Oh I think it's right.
Jack: Oh that does seem to match. Ok so the idea Fred is that that's the breath on which to use the Key Sound.
Jack: In other words, as you take in a big like that, or a gasp like that then you're ready to let that breath out, use the Key Sound as I demonstrate in the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Key Sound Training audio seminar.
Jack: And let that breath and that energy out through the sound.
Fred: Right.
Jack: OK. And also, if you find yourself making that other sound just see if once in a while you can do a Key Sound instead you may actually ultimately go on to ejaculation,
Jack: and at this point I wouldn't consider that a failure or anything, you know it's kind of like, and I understand you'd rather avoid it, and that's fine.
Jack: But I'm not saying that you must at all costs avoid it. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Jack: ...That for these purposes, you can really relax and explore this whole area, it might be better to say, well ok, I may ejaculate, and I may not whatever.
Jack: But for now, I'm going to concentrate on what I'm experiencing in the mean time.
Jack: And you know what my breathing is like and stuff.
Jack: But I would also suggest that you pay attention to when you take a larger than average in-breath and on that breath, when you are ready to let that breath out, use the Key Sound, let it out through the Key Sound.
Fred: Let it out through the Key Sound.
Jack: Exactly! And also if you find yourself as you're increasing stimulation, if you find yourself starting to make the other sound you were talking about, you said it was sort of a high pitched sound or something like that? You said it didn't have a rolling quality.
Fred: I know what you mean.
Jack: How did you describe it before?
Fred: I can't remember how I described it, but I remember noticing the difference between the two.
Jack : How would you describe that sound now? You said it was different than the Key Sound but it was sort of a spontaneous sound that you were making that was pretty loud because because it seemed to have a lot of energy.
Fred: It was.
Jack: So when you find yourself making that kind of sound, see if you can change it or move it towards a Key Sound.
Fred: All right.
Jack: It's like the sound is coming out of you already, just see if you can make the Key Sound as I demonstrate in the audio seminar!
Jack: And put the roll back in it. And then, see what that does with the energy that's in your body.
Jack: Once you've got yourself that excited, up to that point to where that sound is happening, then if you can remove the stimulation for a while. If you can.
Fred: If I remove the stimulation what's going on down there just goes right on.
Jack: It continues, right.
Fred: Yeah.
Jack: As soon as you find your sound coming out of you like that, just go ahead and take that stimulation away.
Jack: And just see if you can work with the sound a little bit. And like I said you may go ahead and ejaculate, but see if can work with that sound a little bit.
Fred: But I won't ejaculate, cause I don't have an erection.
Jack: Ok, so you don't have to worry about that. But you said that this sound was very powerful.
Fred: But that's when I did have an erection. I made myself have an erection because I wanted to ejaculate.
Jack: And that's when you experience the sound. Is that what you're saying?
Fred: Yeah right.
Jack: Ok, alright. But just a couple of moments ago you said you couldn't ejaculate because you weren't erect.
Fred: Right if I'm just doing the Key Sound.
Jack: What I'm suggesting is that you go ahead and experiment a little bit with doing, well let me ask it this way.
Jack: When this sound starts happening, does it start happening, you know the sound that you were talking about...
Fred: Now you mean the undesirable sound, not the Key Sound.
Jack: Well I'm not referring to it as an undesirable sound, it's just another sound.
Jack: It's not an undesirable sound, it's a sound that I think is very important because you've already got the erotic energy in that sound. You get what I'm saying?
Fred: Yeah I do.
Jack: So now if we can get the roll in it, then that may redirect the energy in your body, in such a way that you can experience the orgasm without ejaculating.
Fred: I understand. Very good Jack
Jack: See, it's the idea of getting the roll into it... So when the sound, the other sound.
Jack: In other words the one that you have been experiencing, when that starts happening is it kinda like right before you ejaculate, or is it sometime before you ejaculate?
Fred: I'd say fairly close.
Jack: Fairly close. Then I would also encourage you to add some stimulation see if you can find a middle ground between the way you have been working with the Multiple Orgasm Trigger with no stimulation or just very very mild like you said, and stimulation that's so intense that it leads to ejaculation.
Jack: See if you can kind of increase the stimulaton somewhat and see if that changes your breathing at all.
Jack: And then use the Key Sound, like I describe in the Timing, in other words when you get a feeling back like, oh, I'm starting to feel turned on, or something like that.
Jack: Or if you find yourself taking a bigger than average breath, the use the Key Sound on that. And then as you increase stimulation, as you get more turned on see if you can stay with using the Key Sound on ever 3rd, or 4th breath.
Fred: Right. Good.
Jack: And, then if you do find yourself making some kind of spontaneous sound, see if you can get that roll into it. Ok. And just see what that does. See if that creates any kind of a different experiecne for you.
Fred: Now you mentioned spontaneous sound, but I can't say that I've had any spontaneous sounds.
Jack: Ok. But you are having spontaneous feeling in response to the work you're doing right.
Fred: Absolutely.
Jack: Yeah. That's a good starting place and like I said, when you are like really, really, turned on and maybe right before you ejaculate if you find yourself making those sounds, see if you can see if you can get a roll in it.
Jack: Even if you do go ahead and ejaculate at that point, if you can start to work with it at that point, if you can start to work with that a little bit that work may translate into some of the other stuff we're doing. Ok?
Fred: OK
Jack: And then, like I said, see if you can just increase the stimulation somewhat beyond what you have been using with the Multiple Orgasm Trigger work, and practice the Key Sound there.
Jack: See how long you can continue to use the Key Sound on every 3rd or 4th breath, as you continue to increase the stimulation.
Jack: See if you can take that point where you kind of gave up on the Key Sound, see if you can take that point further up the scale of stimulation. Do you get what I'm saying?
Fred: I'll do it. I do.
Jack: Ok great Fred.
Fred: Well that's swell Jack.
Jack: Well I look forward to your report on that.
Jack: Fred, next week I'm going to be out of town.
Jack: I'm going to be out of town next week so there won't be a chat. But when I get back I'm going to have some real exciting news to report.
Jack: I don't want to announce it quite yet, but I will when I get back from this trip I'm taking. And then of course, on the 22nd we will have a chat again.
Jack: And so I look forward to hearing what new discoveries you'll make in the interim.
Fred: I'll go on working.
Jack: Instead of "working," consider approaching the practice as "exploration." "Working" may set a tone of "burden" or "homework," and the like. Ok, my friend?
Fred: Thank you very much.
Jack: Thanks for the conversation. And for your sharing. I'll investigate the technical problems on the chat and see where we go from there.
Fred: Ok, thanks alot!
Jack: Bye, bye, now!