• "What 'should' I be feeling?"
• A caution against trying to make it happen
• Learning to relax with our bodies.... and just letting it happen.
• Starting with the breathing and Key Sound™ before erotic touching very important
• Letting go of expectations!
• Learning to map your body's responses

mike> Hello Carlos
jack> hey! there we go! Howdy Carlos!
Carlos> hi mike & jack
jack> sorry I didn't get a chance
mike> cup of coffee ?
jack> to give you that more detailed reply I'd promised
jack> how's it going?
Carlos> jack-that's ok, it will be welcome
Carlos> when i get it
jack> what's new?
Carlos> Still not there yet
jack> No biggie, it takes a while usually... let's not sweat the end
jack> point yet, but rather, how about
jack> we focus on the details of your experience along the way
jack> as you continue to clarify your map of this uncharted territory...
jack> so... what HAVE you been experiencing?
Carlos> Last try was a 2 hr effort
Carlos> I used no pressure with my
Carlos> lower hand. Took breaks and showered
Carlos> when I orgasmed I ejac
Carlos> end
jack> So... you're saying that you only used your upper hand for
stimulation?
Carlos> No, I just meant
Carlos> that I did not apply
Carlos> a lot of pressure with lower hand.
Carlos> over
jack> ok... thanks for the clarification... was
jack> the lower hand massage at all pleasurable?
Carlos> Yes, I mainly moved
Carlos> the lower hand up & down also. over
jack> ok... as you did the stimulation, did you feel the energy start
to fill your upper chest?
Carlos> As I used my upper hand
Carlos> and was between vb
Carlos> I felt the normal build up
Carlos> and when I
Carlos> vb and pushed down hard
Carlos> into my pelvis area with my
Carlos> breath and grown
Carlos> It felt good
Carlos> and then the build up left
Carlos> That was ok, as I enjoyed starting over
Carlos> between vb using my upper hand over
jack> Ok! First, I'd like to thank you for sharing this level of
detail because
jack> this is what we need to be able to help clarify where you are in
the process. So when
jack> you said it felt good, would you please detail that? What was the
good
jack> feeling like? Was it a new kind of good, or familiar?
jack> Where in your body were
jack> you feeling the goodness? Over...
Carlos> Yes, it felt good in a different way
Carlos> It was more in the lower
Carlos> penis and fernlum
Carlos> but I believe
Carlos> that it went away
Carlos> from going over the top
Carlos> during the vb
Carlos> because it had been a short
Carlos> refrary
Carlos> (spelling)
Carlos> period.
Carlos> But when I did know
Carlos> that I was going to
Carlos> orgasm, I did not
Carlos> apply pressure
Carlos> as you said that I
Carlos> was pressure squeezing to stop
Carlos> and so I let
Carlos> it go and I pushed down
Carlos> real hard with my vb
Carlos> and sound
Carlos> I then looked down & I had ejac --over
jack> Ok... that's a very helpful description... a couple of thots:
jack> First, a reminder that this method is NOT based on trying to do
something
jack> at the last moment just before you orgasm, to prevent the ejac...
that's a different
jack> model and it's a class that a lot has been written about
elsewhere. Instead,
jack> what I suggest you focus on, for the time being, is to focus on
that good feeling
jack> that was "different." that's one point... another is
jack> that my sense is that you may be into a tendency that I think is
stopping a lot
jack> of guys. That is, we decide "ok I'm gonna work on this ORGASM
thing..." rather than
jack> "ok I'm gonna focus on this PLEASURE thing." In other words,
jack> as men we are programmed to be very goal oriented, it can get in
our way here... basically
jack> I want to invite you to REDIRECT your goal or focus for a little
while, until we get
jack> the map more "filled in" about this DIFFERENT good feeling thatyou had. Basically
jack> I want to invite you to work with
jack> bringing back that good feeling... just that... not to worry for
the next few sessions
jack> about having an orgasm... Pls excuse me for a moment while
I help someone else get into the chat room. Meanwhile, I'd appreciate your
comments on what I've said so far...
Carlos> It seems to me that if I concentrate on org and not worry
about anything
Carlos> but that good feeling and relax
Carlos> I will just continue to ejac -- over
mike> Carlos , do you always get an erection while
jack> I think you misunderstood me... I suggested that you NOT
concentrate on org for now. That
mike> go ahead
jack> sorry, excuse me mike... anyway... do NOT
jack> concentrate on orgasm for now. I suggest
jack> you concentrate ONLY on exploring that different good feeling and
jack> how we can help you repeat that experience and expand it to fill your whole body. I
jack> know you said it went away after the vb etc. At that point,
I would suggest to SLOWLY stimulate
jack> yourself some more, and see if you can just re-experience that
different
jack> good feeling... over
jack> Hey howard!!! Welcome!!! We're talking with Carlos...
pls go ahead Carlos...
HR> Hello Jack, good to be here.
jack> that different "good" feeling...
Carlos> Let me think for now -- over
jack> ok... meanwhile... a few additional comments...
jack> It's REALLY important in the beginning to NOT concentrate
on trying to MAKE yourself
jack> have this kind (or ANY KIND!) of orgasm... remember
jack> that in the early phase we're still drawing the map... remember
that article on the web site
jack> about the map? The next thing is I feel that by pushing
down really hard, etc., you are again
jack> more or less trying to push yourself into this experience...
please understand this is not
jack> a criticism but an observation, and it is an approach that VERY
many of us have started
jack> with!!! So... what I recommend is this. Set it as a goal to NOT
have an orgasm in the next
jack> couple of THESE kinds of sessions. If you want to do it the
"old fashioned way" that's
jack> fine of course... but meanwhile, set aside some time for THIS
practice where there is NOT the goal of trying reach IT...
jack> Then you are free
jack> to begin to expand
jack> your understanding of that "different" good feeling you
described, because
jack> THAT is where the action is! THAT is the arrow that is
pointing to the doorway! Does
jack> that make sense? If so, are these concepts comfortable
to you to explore?
jack> Over to you Carlos!
Carlos> Yes!! I think
Carlos> that this may be an interesting thing to try - over

jack> Good! I'm so glad you
jack> have shared this experience Carlos, because I feel that
MANY men are getting
jack> sidetracked in a similar way, so you're participation in this
discussion will be of help
jack> to MANY!!! What we want to do
jack> is once we've let go of that goal of "tonite I'm gonna MAKE it
happen!" then
jack> we are free to RELAX AND EXPLORE those different feelings!!!
So...
jack> then our focus becomes one of "what was I doing when that
feeling happened?" and
jack> it sounds like for you that was more or less
jack> massaging your upper penis somewhat (and I would suggest
you keep this form a stimulation
jack> in the minimal to moderate range... for now...
no more vigorous or intense than that... otherwise
jack> the energy focusses in your penis and you ejac... so...
at MOST moderate stimulation
jack> of the upper penis... then you were also massing or
stroking your lower penis...
jack> I believe that is excellent!!! And right on track...
based on my own experience... then...
jack> it seemed that when the energy built up in your chest,
you did a vb and some sound...
jack> is that correct?
Carlos> Yes! Should
Carlos> I massage my lower penis
Carlos> or should I do more poking around instead?
jack> For now... maybe just the massage... some gentle
jack> probing can happen later... I still wouldn't recommend to be
as aggressive as "poking" though... see,
jack> the focus is on opening our ENTIRE body to ACCEPT and HOLD a
greater amount of
jack> pleasure rather than just quickly building up a very
concentrated head of steam and then pow! So... gentle massage... also,

jack> it seemed to me that maybe the vb you mentioned you did was
actually rather "late"
jack> in the process. By that I mean that you were already
about to come when you began the first vb. Am I correct in that?
Carlos> No, in fact I started
Carlos> vb before I even touch
Carlos> myself with either hand, I
Carlos> want to get mentally in
Carlos> he mood first.
Carlos> Then I
Carlos> started with my lower hand first. -- over
jack> That is EXCELLENT re: starting the breath before any touch.,
Also EXCELLENT
jack> about starting with your LOWER hand first. I hope all who
read this transcript take
jack> careful note of Carlos' method here, it's right on!!!
Ok so..
jack> you started the vb (I assume with several regular breaths
between each one, correct?) and...
jack> did you begin the sound at this point too?
Before any touching?
Carlos> Yes -over
jack> Excellent!!! Was the sound like a gentle version of
the Key Sound I demonstrate in the audio seminar?
Carlos> Yes - and then
Carlos> I also pushed down with my breath
Carlos> very hard - I pushed
Carlos> my breath down as far and held
Carlos> it until I felt red in my face--over
jack> ahhhh TILT!
jack> So... now
jack> for some fine tuning! And I want to say
jack> that you are a lot closer than you think you are!!!
Whaddya say Mike?
mike> Most definitely, just
mike> let go of any
mike> expectations and be
mike> with yourself
mike> I think you may be trying to make
mike> it happen
mike> You're right there
mike> carlos
jack> yes! and
jack> so for that fine tuning, and this is another VIP:
Very Important Point:
mike> yes
jack> Forget about trying to PUSH your breath down, etc.
mike> ya it's more
mike> a physical movement
mike> with your abdomen
mike> as the breath is released out
mike> ?
jack> That's true! In fact just concentrate on that
gentle Key Sound...
jack> Dont worry so much about what your abdomen, etc. is doing...
just OBSERVE
jack> what it's doing as you
jack> make the sound... Notice if it's happening as Mike describes
and as I have, but dont TRY to FORCE anything. In fact, another VIP:
If you're pushing or forcing or holding anything tightly
(breath, penis, etc.) it's time to RELAX, slow down, quit pushing, tu
jack> tune back into those new different good feelings...
So, Carlos my friend, the
jack> vb etc all sound right on!!! Next time though, be GENTLE
with yourself, don't PUSH anything! Instead,
jack> every time you feel a little energy build up in your chest
jack> just release that energy into a gentle (NOT forced!)
Key Sound as I demonstrate in the audio seminar... then
jack> regular breaths... observe what's happening... even if those
feelings fade
jack> for a while... then just GENTLY continue the massage, and even
>somesound... that's all...
jack> just try that for now... just
jack> practice that a number of times in a session and like I said,
maybe for now agree
jack> with yourself to NOT "try" to have an orgasm... If you have
one (or more!!!) that's great!!! But count it as a bonus! How does that
sound as a next step?
Carlos> Great, I want to stay with this
Carlos> as I know it will work and
Carlos> I know that it will be worth
Carlos> all one goes through if one
Carlos> receives multiple orgasms, and
Carlos> when this does happen, you will be
Carlos> e-mailed - I hope
Carlos> Howard is still with us - over
jack> yes! Mike just called
jack> sed he had a power outage but will be back on asap...
so Howard, whaddya think?
HR> Yes I'm here. Interesting dialogue Jack
jack> glad you like it! Have you had a chance to look over
the stuff on the web site, esp
jack> the last 3 articles I added on timing the valley breathing
, etc?
HR> Not yet, but soon I will.
jack> Great! I look forward to hearing from you on that!
Meanwhile, if you'll bear
jack> with me a little, I have a few more thots for our friend Carlos!
HR> Fine.
jack> Thanks! so Carlos, I'm glad you're willing to hang in there!!!
That's why this chat
jack> is such an important part of the Seminar!!! Because we
can really focus on the
jack> SPECIFIC areas where some adjustments can be made...
and it's no BS that you
jack> have a LOT of stuff in place already!!! It's mostly about
jack> shifting your attention AWAY from the Big O, and onto
mapping those "different
jack> good feelings." Because the orgasms >Ithat are non-ejac and
jack> that are MANY MANY MANY are IN those "different good feelings!"
It's just a
jack> challenge in the early stages to UNlearn a lot of the
patterns we have learned
jack> in our culture about how guys are "supposed to (or whatever)"
self-pleasure! Foremost
jack> among the patterns to UNlearn are the ones where we are
trying to MAKE "it" happen!!! So
jack> more or less what you might expect as you implement the,
suggestions I've given you
jack> this PM is that that different good feeling WILL come back
into your body if you continue at
jack> about the same pace you were at when they first appeared.
Then GENTLY deliver those
jack> built up in the chest feelings into the sound... gently!!!
Nothing forced, dont worry too much
jack> about whether or not you are doing the breathing right
or whether your belly is moving the right way, etc. just
jack> focus on making sure that the Key Sound
jack> you are making has that "roll" in it... as I demonstrate in the audio seminar...
(but GENTLY!) Another
jack> VIP: Don't make
jack> the sound any louder than it naturally "wants" to or
needs to be to express the
jack> energy pent up in your chest! Just let the upper chest
energy out through the
jack> sound... hmm
jack> I'm getting some screwy feedback on my screen right now,
are you guys
Carlos> No
jack> seeing what I'm typing in a coherent way or are the lines
jack> getting chopped up and jumbled?
Carlos> NO
HR> My screens OK
jack> Copy that HR, what do you mean NO, Carlos?
Carlos> No, my screen was not chopped
Carlos> Jack, I have a question
jack> OK good, it's a prob at my end only... so... do you grok
what I'm saying about
jack> not trying to make the sound any bigger than it "wants"
to be to express the pent up energy?
jack> ah yes Carlos, pls go ahead with your question!
Carlos> Yes, got a question
Carlos> Let's go back a little
jack> your question?
Carlos> when I was almost at the Point
Carlos> of no return, I was vb and
Carlos> pushing down to push the energy out of my
Carlos> chest?? Or was I really just
Carlos>to hold back? I
Carlos> kept doing this until the point
Carlos> was not going away when I vb
Carlos> and that was a great O doing the
Carlos> sound and pushing.--over
jack> Yes I'll bet it was!!! :-) The thing is, all of the forceful
pushing may
jack> have put a lot of pressure on your prostate so the O was
accompanied with ejac... that's
jack> why I'm suggesting that you forgo the pushing and holding
tight, etc. Ah, bingo!
jack> I just got an insight about this! And that is that what may be
hardest for so many
jack> of us to connect with initially is that the secret to the
Male Multiple Orgasm I am talking about,
jack> paradoxically, comes through RELAXING and being GENTLE,
etc. rather than what
jack> we're used to!!! At any rate, the fact that the O with
ejac that you had was more
jack> intense than usual is ALSO another milestone on that map!!!
Remember how
jack> in the writing and in the Audio Seminar I sed that as you
open these Male Multiple Orgasm gates,
jack> even orgasm WITH ejac will tend to be more intensely
pleasurable! So...
jack> to me that just says that your body IS starting to
REMEMBER and pls recall that mindset:
jack> that your body DOES know how do this!!! We just need
to UNlearn a few things and give
jack> our body the room (without forcing or pushing, etc.)
to OPEN and RELAX "into" these kinds
jack> of orgasms! The thing is, once you get grooved in with that
different good feeling
jack> experience and learn how to let the sound just be what it
needs to be to handle
jack> however much energy is in your chest, THEN as you GRADUALLY
increase stimulation
jack> and a greater pressure seems to build in your chest, you
will still be comfortable
jack> in delivering that energy into the sound. I guess basically
also that
jack> sorry... my screen is getting so screwed up I can hardly
read my own writing!!! Anyway,
jack> as you just work with translating the pent up energy into
that sound, the different
jack> good feelings will likely increase and spread through
your body. As they do so, at
jack> some point one or more waves will rush through your body
and you'll just
jack> have a (by "now" more or less automatic) tendency to deliver
that "wave" energy into
jack> the sound too... presto!!! You're there!!!
jack> Over!
Carlos> That's a lot - I will report after some great workouts-
Carlos> only don't take the term
Carlos> workout to mean - working it hard
Carlos> and not relaxing.-over
jack> Copy on the "workout" ... Yeah, isn't the homework in
this seminar the best? ;-)
Carlos> Yes - I have had a lot of schooling
Carlos> like 200+ semester cr hr -but
Carlos> none had home work like this!!!- over
jack> [SMILES] I hear ya! I look forward to your reports from
the field! So...
jack> gentle men... what else? Other questions or comments?
Carlos> Thanks, Jack, what has Howard have to say?
jack> Over to you HR!
HR> Can I change my initials to Howard?
jack> sure!!! you just do /nick Howard
Howard> There
jack> ahhhhh
Howard> Ahh indeed
jack> so... thots n feelings?
Howard> I'm still groovin on the tape
jack> Good! It's very important to check out the updates on
the web, esp
jack> those last three articles because they clarify some
areas in the Audio Seminar...
Howard> I will but I have one self-observation
jack> yes?
Howard> The very notion of great pleasure with ejac
Howard> was timely and relaxing within my relationship to Christina
jack> I'm very glad to hear that!!! Did you mean WITH ejac or withOUT?
Howard> Prior to the Male Multiple Orgasm tape I got scared a few times when I had sex without ejac
Howard> But then the tape gave permission
Howard> to stop associating orgasm with macho, ejaculation production
Howard> It has a bit to do with age - 59 - great sex life but
Howard> different than at 29 or 39
Howard> Thanks for the permission to let go of the macho stuff. Over
jack> for the permission to? I didn't get the last part...
Howard> Not feel that something was wrong with me if I didn't ejaculate
Howard> even though the sexual act as a whole was very pleasurable
Howard> over
jack> I'm sorry but now my screen is truncating YOUR stmts as well!
Seems like it's
jack> only liking short lines! The gist of what I think
jack> you're saying tho (and I DO have a transcript of this which
I'll be able to see later, I hope)
jack> is that you're greatful for the permission to just make
LOVE and experience PLEASURE and not feel OBLIGATED to project bodily fluid?
jack> something like that?
Howard> Exactly. It's that simple.
Howard> Also, everything else I can relate to
Howard> years of Bioenergetics and Radix and Yoga etc
jack> Hi could you pls repeat last statement? I exited and restarted
to
Howard> Which I connect more now with relaxed sexual pleasure than
before.
jack> try to get the screen to clean up and it looks
jack> like it worked! Yes! I got the whole msg about relaxed sex
pleasure...
jack> Yes!
jack> In fact,
Howard> The breathing and relaxing work I relate to
jack> go ahead pls...
Howard> my years of Bioenergetics, Radix and Yoga
jack> yes!
Howard> which I didn't always connect with relaxed sexual pleasure.
jack> Kind of an exciting hookup, eh?
Howard> It sure is!
Howard> OVer
jack> Here's what I
jack> suggest Howard. In fact, let's make this a
jack> VIP (Very Important Point) also:
jack> To begin with, after having listened to the Audio Seminar once
or twice to
jack> get the overview, then put the Audio Seminar on the shelf for
a week or two
jack> and do the exercises I describe on the web site in the articles
called
jack> How to Tell When to Use the Key Sound Solo
Introduction to Key Sound Practice Introduction
to Key Sound for Partners How to Tell When to Use
the Valley Breath and Key Soun
jack> whoops, they repeated, but the titles are in there... 3 articles
jack> accessible from the index page...
jack> anyway,
jack> work with that info for a couple of weeks, invite Christina
to join you when you do the
jack> partners' exercise, lemme know how it goes!
Howard> Fine.
jack> Well, we've been at this for a while, now so I think I'm
jack> about ready to call it a night, but I want to put
jack> a bookmark here for another topic...
jack> You see Carlos, Howard and I know each other from WAY back
because of
jack> the dreamwork I developed many years ago. The bookmark
is that I want
jack> to chat sometime about how that dreamwork led to my
discovery of this info!
Howard> I am very interested!
jack> Thot you might be! ;-)
Carlos> I too!!
jack> Great!!! Well, I think we're starting the New Year off right, don't you?
Howard> G'night ol'friend. It's 11:15 pm here
jack> Yes! My love to Christina!!!
Carlos> Have A Great New Year, Jack, and I will be looking
Howard> and ours to Jackie!
Carlos> foward to the next.
jack> Copy both of you with many thanks! This has been a VERY
productive session!!! Let's
jack> keep going!!! Next chat will be this weekend, not sure of
time but will let you know...

GOLD NUGGET

GREAT tips for newbies!!!