Session start: Sat Jul 5 22:17:42 2008
Jack> Latest chat transcript is available here : Multiple Orgasm Trigger(tm) Discussion ChatBox Transcript of 2008074
Laly> hi Canuck n Mog
mog> Hi laly - how's the world treating you?
mog> Hi Canuck!
mog> Cheerio folks, I'm off up the wooden hill now - g'night!
Laly> I am good Mog Thanks :)
canuck75> Hey Laly! I'm doing great thanks. How about you?
zeitgeist> Hi people how are you all doing?
zeitgeist> I'll provide an update in the next couple of days
zeitgeist> I've been looking after a relative over the past months
zeitgeist> so life is returning to normal... well, as normal as it can get!
Laly> I am good Canuck - thanks :)
Laly> hi Z-man!! missed you :)
Jack> Hey Zeitgeist - I wholeheartedly second Laly's emotion! ;) VERY nice to hear from you once again! I'm looking forward to reading your update post. Wishing you all the very best! - JJ
Jack> Hi even, would you pls post a copy of your reply posted in the Key Sound Validation area to a publicly-viewable area such as you blog or in The Lounge?
Jack> Then I'll respond to your points... Thanks!
even> Jack: Sure, no problem! I have uploaded the post to "The Lounge"-area, with the title: "Thoughts and questions from a beginner".
Jack> Thanks very much for doing so, even... I'll post a response soon!
Jack> OK, Even... Here it is! :D
Jack> Hi again, Even... and Welcome Back, holysmokes - I hope you have a fractally enjoyable weekend! PLEASE COME TO THE CHAT TOMORROW YOU GUYS! Chat COUNTDOWN is correct.
even> Jack: Hi, and thanks for your reply! I have just responded to your reply :)
Jack> Hi Ashlen!
Jack> Hi MultipleM and Welcome to our Newest Newbie!
multiplem> Hi, Jack!
Jack> Very Warm Welcome to our Newest Newbie: MultipleM!
Jack> MultipleM (and all other Forum users!) - Be sure to click the Gold Nuggets link for a list of really informative and inspiring posts!
Jack> Hi Mog!
Jack> Hi Laly! I just popped in for a sec to respond to fruitbat's latest post.
Jack> ****** 20080712 GMT Welcome to the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Training and Coaching Chat hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA
Jack> Hi Even and Ageless!
Ageless> Hi Jack -- Ageless here.
Jack> Hey! How are you today?
Ageless> I think I am right at the Terrer at the Gates
Jack> This is a very important milestone. It's actually a GOOD sign!
Ageless> I am beginning to question if I have ever had an orgas. Oh I have had ejaculations, but Orgasms>
Ageless> I find I am shaking with fear at times when I become arroused.
Jack> I'll be happy to discuss Terror at the Gates with you... for the sake of our readers, would you please introduce yourself a little bit? Age, how long practicing the Multiple Orgasm Trigger method, what brought you here, and anything else you'd like to share, while of course protecting your anonymity. Then we'll chat! This is BIG NEWS you're describing!
Ageless> Outside of this, I am fine today.
Jack> Good!
Ageless> OK. I am 79 years young, live in Minnesota. I did my first KSMO JUne 14. I posted a blog last night that gives more detail of where I am at now.
Ageless> I started KMSO in part having read about in an Aneros blog.
Jack> Readers: Here is the link to the blog of Ageless.
Jack> Give me a moment to read through your blog post, and make sure I am subscribed to it to receive any updates to it by email right away.
Ageless> :)
Jack> Hi I see that Mog is also now in channel. I don't know if he'll join the chat, but I hope so! Ageless - FYI Mog is pushing 78!
Ageless> I can understand my terror Jack. Although I didn't mention it, I was held back (pushed back into mom and her legs hels shut, when I was born.
Jack> WOW!
Ageless> Yes -- Mog told me that. He is a young man yet. Hi Mog!!!
Ageless> If I want to ask Mog a question, how do I contact him?
Jack> LOL re: Mog. BTW, ageless, Mog started with this at the very young age of 73! He is now QUITE Adept as you can read by checking out his Blog and using our Google Site Search tool to search on Mog..
Ageless> WE share a lot, and he knows things I may need to know.
Jack> RE: terror story of your birth... It certainly makes sense then that you WOULD experience terror at REbirth into multiple orgasms, eh? :)
Jack> Oh I'm VERY glad to hear about your sharing!
Ageless> Got it. You and I are in agreement.
Jack> Would you please describe the Terror you now sometimes feel during your practice? What's it like?
Ageless> My birth is something I need to do more work on.
Jack> Are you currently seeing a counselor about it?
Ageless> OK. My upper body starts to shake. Breathing becomes uneven. My jaw will tremble if I give it a chance to. No pleasure. The pleasure starts to come, and as I relax into it (try to) the pleasure goes away and the trembling starts.
Jack> Thank you for that description. Did you see my question about are you currently seeing a counselor about your birth trauma?
Ageless> Yes. And have been wiorking on it and my abuse for years. I have come a long way,l but clearly there is still work to do. This is good to know. I wasn';t aware of it till now.
Jack> You have an EXCELLENT attitude about it! That bodes well for an excellent prognosis, my friend! :)
Ageless> Just occured to me. My life now would be great -- if I wasn't trying to experience an orgasm!
Jack> Well you offering a LOT of information here AND in your blog, so let's just take it one step at a time, OK? That's why I named my first audio seminar Multiple Orgasm Step by Step! :D
Ageless> Sounds like plan to follow. Thanks Jack
Jack> Are you familiar with one of my favorite saying about learning this lifelong skill: The greater challenge in learning this is NOT between the legs, it's between the ears... and in your heart!!!
Ageless> :)
Jack> And... you are QUITE welcome!
Jack> Ok... first,
Jack> I want to call your attention to how very important it is to give yourself the breathing room to re-label - to reframe - your experience!.
Jack> For example,
Jack> I can appreciate the trembling and shaking you are reporting might lead you to think you are experiencing fear. But... that trembling and shaking is also very typical of
Jack> the awakening of this multiorgasmic response!
Jack> It MAY be that it is not necessarily fear, but a sign that your practice is beginning to work!
Jack> Of course it is understandable that your response to the trembling and shaking might be fearful, since this is a new experience for you!
Jack> What do you think?
Ageless> I thought of that to, but the fear seemed to fit better. It fit my reference point. BUT, you may well be right and I intend to look at it in that light.
Jack> How do feel right now as you give yourself the option to see this experience in that new light?
Ageless> Jack -- doesn't an infant experience an orgasm, or close to it, during birth? I know it is incredibly pleasurable.
Jack> There is considerable discussion about that! And I don't see why it could not be the case!
Ageless> I ma looking forward to experiencing it in that light.
Jack> An infant I think might also tend to experience Terror at the Gates as he or she gets expelled from the cozy womb by being forced through the birth canal!
Jack> Nice slip btw, when you said I ma looking forward... ;)
Jack> That's a good sign that your subconscious IS participating in this discussion and in your continuing REbirth!
Ageless> The first part of my birth was fast and without any restrictions. It was too fast for the medics.
Ageless> I was in Moms room, not the delivery room. Had to relocate us before I could come into this world.
Jack> Yeah, so maybe a feeling of: I don't know what's happening, but it's happening quickly! then suddenly: HEY! What the ----!
Ageless> Yup -- and the terror. I am told that in all probability, my blood flow was stopped during this period.
Jack> JEEZ!!!
Jack> You are one heck of a SURVIVOR, Dude!
Ageless> :) Ya, and am fortunate to be in great health considering all.
Jack> Yes indeed! RE: What you reported in your first blog post...
Jack> I am VERY sorry to hear of all of the horrible ways you were treated! I was abused by the church custodian, repeatedly, around the age of 4 or 5, but not to the level of brutality you are describing!
Jack> There is someone in our community however who has had similar experiences, and that is Laly.
Ageless> I will be calling you soon to check out my sound. When I do it lying down -- my preferred position -- my sinuses drain and the sound becomes rasy
Jack> She's been very generous in documenting her continuing journey of recovery - and the role her practice of the Multiple Orgasm Trigger Protocol and our community has played in that recovery.
Jack> Ok, that's fine re: contact by phone. I look forward to working with you that way. By the way,
Jack> you don't have to be lying down to practice. Many people prefer to practice while sitting in a comfy chair. You might explore that.
Ageless> Sorry to hear about your abuse Jack -- it leaves its mark no matter what we do to overcome it.
Jack> You are very right about that, and thanks!
Ageless> Lying down was my preference. I will try sitting up next time. Thanks for the suggestion.
Jack> I do urge you to read and respond to Laly's blog posts, and to develop a dialogue with her. I think she can be very supportive of your continuing Adventure with this practice, and with your healing.
Jack> You're very welcome re: the suggestion of sitting in a chair.
Jack> Yeah I want to give you lots of encouragement to explore different positions, etc. to find what is optimally comfortable in this practice.
Ageless> Anything else Jack? This is my first time so don't know when to call quits. I have shared what I wanted to this time. And i will keep posting.
Ageless> What is the scoop on OrgasmWiki. Is it a separate sign on ect.
Jack> Well, if you have the time and energy, I'd like to continue this chat with you for a while. That of course is up to you.
Ageless> It wouldn't take the sign on I use with you.
Jack> RE: The OrgasmWiki. Yes, due to the structure of the software, it requires a separate signup. Just send me an email with the password you'd like to use for the wiki. It can be the same one, or different than the one you use for the Forum. For continuity, your username of Ageless will be the same.
Ageless> I have all the time in the world. When I finish, I will go on a 15 mile or so bike ride, but I have all afternoon for that.
Jack> Sounds good, Ageless!
Ageless> I will use the same password. I will E-mail it to you.
Jack> Ok, sounds good, thanks!
artform> Hi Jack, mog & Ageless
Ageless> OK.
artform> mog & Ageless, how are you?
Ageless> Hi Artform. I like your name.
Jack> Hey artform, Welcome! Ageless and I are just rolling up our sleeves to help him with his practice. I recommend that you review what we've discussed so far, and also take a look at his blog posts, if you haven't as yet.
Ageless> Doing OK. I am still new at all of this.
artform> Thanks Ageless. I tried to reflect our thinking on freshly approaching orgasmic energies as seniors!
artform> (mrs. a and I, that is)
Ageless> Its what Jack and I have been talking about.
Ageless> Hi Mrs. a
artform> I'll take jack's suggestion now and look at what you've talked about before...
Jack> Yes, that's great artform!
artform> ...and I'm sorry to arrive late now.
Jack> NO PROB artform, glad you're here now, and Welcome! BTW, Ageless, Mog usually prefers to reply by posts rather than in the chats, so watch for him that way.
Ageless> Thanks for the info. I was wondering if we had lost you MOG. I had hoped not.
Jack> Ageless, please go ahead and say a little more about the trembling and shaking you've been noticing, associated with some of your practice sessions. Beware of the tendency to label them as a sign of fear, and give yourself AND THEM the benefit of the doubt! ;)
Jack> BTW Ageless, it's GREAT that you have that meditation practice going, as well as a lifestyle that is physically active - e.g. your bike riding, etc. That's ALL GOOD!
Jack> Ageless, would you please go ahead and tell us a little more about the shaking and trembling associated with your practice sometimes?
Ageless> OK -- I have experiened fear (under other circumstances) and know what that trembling feels like. This may not be fear, but when it comes up, I shut off the rest of my body, in particular, the whole genital area goes numb as well as ewnergy in the back (as I remember it now). This is something I have to look at again.
Jack> Yeah it sounds like the way you're handling it is already beginning to evolve for the better.
Jack> To begin with, you don't have to believe it's a positive sign, but just be open to the possibility that it mightbe. What do you say?
Ageless> Its well worth persuing. I will need to go back and see if I can regain feeling in the rest of my body. Its like what I call para sympathetic shock
Jack> Please say more about parasympathetic shock. What's an example of when that occurs, and what is it like for you? Is this something you are noticing as a result of your KSMO practice?
Ageless> I am looking at it as a learning experience. Its something I need to open up to and feel as completely as possible. That in itself will be healing and will probably lead me to its source.
Jack> Are you saying that the trembling and shaking you associate to parasympathetic shock?
Ageless> I have spent considerable time (staring in about 1975) working on my self. PS generally starts when the infant(and/or fetus) is placed in an extreme overload condition. All defenses fail except to "shut down" incoming sensory information. One turns inward. Psympathetic shock can occur in older children and adults and shows up an anger or rage state.
Ageless> Yes-- I am associating the two.
Jack> Ok, the trembling and shaking MAY be parasympathetic shock. I have a question for you:
Ageless> A person in PS shock can not call on their sympathetic sysytem. The way out, according to my training and experiuence is to get into the rage I could not express then.
Jack> Are you willing to consider the possibility that the trembling and shaking when you practice KSMO may NOT be parasympathetic shock, but rather might be the awakening of the multiorgasmic response system in you?
Ageless> Hi Jack -- you still here?
Jack> Yeah! I was waiting on you to reply to my last question. :)
Jack> There might be some glitch in the chat software, where sometimes we don't see what someone has posted until after WE post again!
Ageless> Yes, I am aware of it, and if so, GREAT. Time will tell. This also fits as it is brought on my my heightened sexual energy that preceeds it.
Jack> GREAT!
Jack> I'd like to work with you some more on possibly reframing some of the labels you're assigning to your experiences with this practice, OK?
Ageless> Particularly in my 1st and 2nd Chakra areas.
Ageless> Yes -- OK
Jack> Great! Ok!!! :)
Jack> In your first blog post, you referred to certain areas of your body as being dead.
Jack> Would you consider relabeling those areas as possibly sleeping
Jack> ?
Ageless> Yes -- FRont pelvic area in particular. Pubic hair up to navel area. And the area behind it.
Jack> artform, please feel free to join in! :D
Ageless> Yes, that is a good label. THey are there but asleep.
Jack> Notice any shift in your emotional relationship to those areas as you change the label in that way?
Jack> ;)
Ageless> Yes -- they seem to be more aware of them.
Jack> And dead implies that's the end of it. By labeling those areas as asleep, you are giving them the option to re-awaken!
Ageless> That whole area seems to be becoming awake as I do the KSMOs
Jack> Wonderful!
Jack> As I read your blog, I notice a certain Yes But pattern to the way you describe your experiences. Have you noticed that?
Ageless> I was not aware of it.
Ageless> I am wondering if the yes but is a protection against not being able to do it. It keeps my hopes from getting to high .
Jack> Here's an example... and PLEASE note that this is NOT criticism, and I am NOT trying to make your wrong or blame you or assume that you should know better.
Jack> Notice please even in your last statement how you describe the pattern
Jack> as a protection against not being able to do it.
Ageless> Something I learned when I was real young. Its still there isn't it. Wow.
Jack> Rather than, for example: protection against my fear of my PERHAPS not being able to do it.
Ageless> That certainly is a different and better way to look at it.
Jack> RE: It's still there...... It has been still there, UNTIL NOW... WOW!!! ;)
Jack> RE: Different and better - It is WONDERFUL that you ARE experiencing the DIFFERENCE!!! VIVE LA DIFFERENCE! :D
Jack> Are you ready for an example, offered with love and support, Good Brother... of the Yes But pattern?
Ageless> I will keep a positive outlook on it.
Jack> Good!
Ageless> Go ahead.
Jack> Here's an example of the Yes But pattern:
Jack> From your first blog post: Every step I took it was like my body was experiencing another orgasm. There was, however, no pulsating orgasm.
Jack> What do you think?
Jack> Do you see the Yes But pattern in those two sentences?
Ageless> Poor choice of words? What I was trying to say was that my body was feeling pleasure but I was not having an orgasm.
Ageless> Yes, I see the pattern.
Jack> How do you know it was not an orgasm?
Ageless> I don't.
Jack> Ah.
Jack> ;)
Ageless> Question -- is an orgasm just feeling pleasure in one's body?
Jack> Imho, It's not a poor choice of words, it's a psychological pattern.
Jack> A learned behavior.
Jack> NO BLAME!
Jack> Perseverance Furthers!
Jack> As counsels the I Ching / Book of Changes! :D
Jack> Here once again is what you said VERBATIM in the first sentence. Notice how you feel when you read it, when the But sentence is not appended to it:
Jack> Every step I took it was like my body was experiencing another orgasm.
Ageless> Am I wrong in expecting that I will experience more than just pleasure. I expect to!
Jack> Who is making whom wrong?
Jack> ;)
artform> This is a wonderful discussion. I'm just back from a major distraction and the reading
Jack> Where does wrong enter the picture? And why does it need to?
Jack> Thanks for the checkin artform! Feel free to leap in! :)
artform> Persistence and openess...
artform> letting go of assumptions...
Ageless> good question. I don't ex[pect to be wrong on my assumption that an "orgasm" is more than just a feeling of pleasure.
artform> the fawn will take the path it chooses...
artform> until you really get to know it...
Ageless> Ah yes. I still have much to learn.
Jack> Yes indeed, artform!
Jack> Ageless... Dear Sir... THESE are YOUR VERY words: Every step I took it was like my body was experiencing another orgasm.
Ageless> I know. It was not what I was trying to communicate at the time I wrote it.
artform> As an art and science explorer, I too came to this with assumptions, but quickly took the good advice here from Jack and others on being open to reframing my vocabulary/expectations. I am very happy that I did.
Ageless> Thanks artform. As I said, this is a new learning ewxperiemce for me.
Jack> Ageless, what is your response to what artform offered to you in his last statement?
artform> One thing that I have found is that the fawn, now herd of deer, respect the physical limitations of my injury-wracked body and go for "pleasure" even in highest ecstasies ahead of heavy physical motion/exertion. I am so thankful for these super-energies bliss/pleasures and where this practice and my body's intuition have taken me!
Ageless> Like you artform, I did have assumtions and expectations. As long as I realize it, I too can change these assumptions.
Ageless> Yes
Jack> Ageless, I just wonder are you willing to explore the result of allowing that statement of yours to stand alone, without undoing it: Every step I took it was like my body was experiencing another orgasm.
artform> ...make that "herds" of deer
Jack> What emotional changes are you noticing when you allow yourself that option, Ageless?
Jack> LOL artform... Yes, a veritable stampede at times, eh? ;)
artform> Uncountable the night before last!!!
Jack> Gives new meaning to: But who's counting! eh, artform? :)
Jack> Ageless, it's GREAT that you're willing to let that statement of YOURS stand alone, without undoing it!
Ageless> My first response is "disappointment." An orgasm is more than what I was feeling then as I remember it. On the other hand, that was all my body then was capable of experiencing
Ageless> I can accept that as I have already moved beyong it.
Jack> I like hearing that you've already moved beyond. Please describe that!
Ageless> The pleasure I am feeling now in my body is far greater than what I was feeling when I wrote my first blog. I look at it as then I was experiencing an opening up and a start of experiencing an orgam. THe feelings of pleasure are more intense now.
Jack> That is WONDERFUL news!!!
Jack> CONGRATULATIONS!!!
Ageless> And I feel great about it to.:):)
artform> mrs. a just returned and we are off the beach! All the very best Ageless. I look forward to more discussion with you, as the opposite, a forceps delivery yanked into this world!, among other topics...
artform> Congratulations!
Ageless> WOW -- sorry about that -- Woukld like to talk to you about it. And thanks for your input
Jack> Have a great time artform! And Warm Best Wishes to Mrs. A as well!
Jack> Ageless, You've been describing a LOT of VERY POWERFUL Echo Effects.
Jack> What, in your current way of framing experience, appears to be missing from them so that somehow they do not in your mind qualify as orgasm?
Ageless> I do believe so. Right now, by the way, I am having an echo effect from this morning in that I am aware of a lot of pleasure in my body. Feels good.
Jack> That's great!
Jack> You are reporting a great variety of quite lively Echo Effects. I am sincerely curious as to what might seem to be missing from
Jack> all of these experiences that in some way does not in your mind qualify them as official orgasms?
Ageless> Great question. I was just pondering it myself. To my way of thanking, an orgasm has a rythm to it. It has pulsations somewhat like an ejaculation orgasm although there is no ejaculation. I expect to experience energy moving up my back. This are my expectations.
Ageless> Substitute thinking for thanking in my last post
Jack> Are you familiar with the expression: Full Body Orgasm or FBO?
Ageless> I have heard the expression. What does it mean?
Jack> To my way of thanking, may be your subconscious trying to teach you something, by the way. ;)
Jack> As Milton Erickson MD used to say: You can wonder! :D
Ageless> It would be nice to have answers to questions like this on your website.
Jack> We are generating those answers as we chat here, my friend!
Ageless> THis is agreat learning experience fror me. I do wonder
Jack> Our Google Site Search Tool is very good at helping you located such answers on our site, wherever they may have been posted. And I welcome volunteers to help us improve our FAQ... it is in dire need of such!
Jack> Ah that is GREAT that you ARE beginning to WONDER! :D
Ageless> Ramsdale in RED HOT TANTRA talks about whole body orgasms. THey are more than what I have been having.
Jack> I would personally say that given the relatively short time you have been practicing this method, and also considering all of the wounding from which you have had to recover in your life... the Echo Effects (dare I call them orgasms???) you have already been reporting are indeed WONDER-FULL!
Jack> RE: Ramsdale's book and what he says in it... I would simply say to you... STAY TUNED!
Ageless> I agree -- I am very pleased with my progress.
Jack> I am glad to hear that you are pleased with your progress. I think, as the Brits would say, you are moving along smartly!
Ageless> STAY TUNED! I like that suggestion. And I will. It gives me something to look forward to.
Jack> BTW, did you happen to catch Ramsdale's gracious comments in that book about the work we're doing here and the methodology?
Jack> Looking forward is good! So also is giving full credit to what you are already experiencing... you may be closer than you may have thought!
Ageless> Yes I did -- I liked it.
Jack> Great! Re: David's kind comments... RE: Expectations... there is a persistent theme in the 13 plus years of this Forum thus far.
Ageless> Jack, my intuition told me this morning that I am closer than what I think i am.
Jack> It is the frequent reports of the following pattern:
Jack> I wasn't expecting anything, and THEN it happened!
Jack> What do you make of that?
Ageless> TRue.
Jack> Hey let's here it for your intuition!!!
Jack> Ah I like that slip my subconscious just gave us! :)
Jack> It's a Merry Punster!
Ageless> I have been following that advise ever sense I started my KSMOs. Can't always stop the expectations all the time, and in some ways they may be good as long as they don't become a drive. THe thought crossed my mind -- I noted it and went back to just experiencing.
Jack> PERFECT! By Jove, I think he's GOT it!!!
Ageless> This mornings session was the best yet, by far. Progress! :)
Jack> Yeah the expectations can pop up when they will, and I LIKE your strategy of not fretting about them or energizing them further... just noted them and dive back in to the experience. Perfect strategy, imho!
Jack> That's really great to hear about the best yet!
Jack> How about we wrap up our discussion for this session on that lovely note?
Ageless> Sounds like a great time to do it. Thanks Jack
Jack> There'll be another chat hosted by me at 7pm PDT this evening.
Jack> You are VERY welcome! I think you're doing great! Again CONGRATULATIONS!
Jack> Til next time, then... keep blogging!
Jack> ***** END of Multiple Orgasm Trigger Training and Discussion Chat of 20080712 GMT hosted personally by Jack Johnston MA
Session stop: Sat Jul 12 20:08:18 2008